Wonder how the Golf was......
I have not seen it online, but Dr. Nancy (should be Dr. Nanny)over at MSNBC announced a short while ago that Chantix and Zyban wll be getting that dreaded black box warning. Will they put pictures of the suicide victims' gunshot wounds on the box? I guess Pfizer will need to drum up some extra business at the conference,promoting their gum, rather than their drugs. They might show the cute ads for fruity flavors, marketed to children in a PowerPoint presentation. Or, perhaps they will show a demonstration of their inhaler that no one wants to buy for over $250 now that e cigs have taken over.
Dr Siegel,your blog will run ad infinitum if you continue to highlight these "medical conferences". Just continues proving that smoking cessation isn't about health,it's about maximising Pharmaceutical profits and returning the fiscal outlay that RWJF SHELLED OUT IN BUYING SMOKE BANS.
"... helping smokers to stop"
Yeah, please help me ...
"Dozens of preparations were available to assist people in quitting smoking, ranging from a silver nitrate mouthwash ( 1 part in 10,000 was said to create an unpleasant taste for tobacco ) to a substance known as "transpulmin" injected into the bloodstream to produce a similar effect ( it was said to bond with the terpenes and other aromatic compounds in tobacco, producing an unpleasant sensation )
Trade-name compounds such as "Analeptol" and "Nicotilon" were offered, as were tobacco substitutes in the form of chewing gums, ginger preparations, atropine, and menthol cigarettes. Hypnotism was apparently popular, as were various forms of psychological councilling."
http://www.environmentaloncology...7%
20proctor.pdf
Rose,
The medieval [torture] rack was a real favorite 
_
Michael, a few posts back you expressed the idea beyond the 4000 deadly ingredients or toxins there are likely 100,000. If this does not demonstrate [even to you!] that your perspectives are biased to beyond the traditional epi. black and white two dimensions to now only include one. Let me try to open your eyes for a few seconds.
To explain; Epi. is an x versus y two dimensional limitation, where all other dimensions and perspectives have to be tailored and adjusted to fit the prescribed and proscibed mould.
IOW black and white.
If you do this transformation of data with a bias and purpose, what you produce is only an expression of your own want or opinion.
IOW Moralist promotions.
From a scientific perspective you have produced nothing of value, however from a moralist perspective you are certainly singing along.
When you apply the moralist bias your perspective is reduced from x versus y to simply x and the statement "the debate is over, we know what is and what is not." Perspective equals x.
The self imposed limits of that non conditional; single dimensional vs two dimensional restriction, robs you of the freedom of limitless dimensions, that only a non biased perspective could provide, Or the confidence in the legitimacy of science, held only in "reproducible and consistent proofs" could confirm.
The belief that 4000 ingredients are all toxic and stand in the absence of nutrients, is limiting and ignorant enough in itself, but to expand and state 100,000 may exist [although we only know of perhaps 4%] and all are toxic so far, so the rest most certainly will produce nothing but negative effects.
This opinion stands as absolutely against all odds, and only serves to illuminate your moralist direction and absolutely limited value as a scientist, who operates within a single perspective and dimension.
Bias is a limitation no one can afford. Placing that limit upon yourself voluntarily, is much more foolhardy than anything you can state about smoking.
We forgive you [mostly] because it's your choice how to manage your own affairs, although your chosen limitations and shortcomings, are the foundation for the numerous assaults you commit against others who deserve equal play, in how they choose to pursue their own happiness and comfort.
sheri
In Ontario, they are offering chantrix for free to anyone. The pharmacists are saying that it hasn't been out long enough to know info on it. This way they can use Ontarians as guinea pigs; without the liabilities. If you don't charge for a drug, the people who use it can't sue you; in reality I think the health ministry is paying for it (using taxes).
"Presentations, workshops and debates cover all aspects of the policy and practice of helping smokers to stop."
Except one, ...those who have no desire to stop.
From the site:
"All patient groups are covered, including pregnant smokers, young people, those with mental health problems, in secure environments, and hard to reach groups."
"in secure environments"
Well, they do have a captive audience in this situation don't they?
"hard to reach groups"
As in North of the Artic circle?,..or people that have become acclimated to the public health assault on their senses and now simply tune out the endless droning about how NRT is sooooo much better?
It looks like it was a two day long interactive commercial for Pharmaceutical companies where attendees got to goof off on someone elses dime.
Thanks Dr. Siegel for again highlighting pharm's now almost total control of cessation. As you know, the June 2000 US Guideline, authored by pharm influence, established national cessation policy that effectively banned any and all government support or assistance in quitting without purchase and use of pharmacology. Thank about it. Today it is against national cessation policy to simply stop smoking cold turkey, the method used by 80-90% of all long-term successful ex-smokers.
If these products were truly effective at least they'd have an argument for destruction for suppression and destruction of nearly ng all non-pharmacology competition. But, as you know, clinical trials are grounded in the fiction that we nicotine addicts with substantial quitting histories cannot recognize the onset of full-blown withdrawal when assigned to receive placebos instead of the active product.
They continue to suppress all real-world evidence showing that these products fall flat on their face when forced to go head-to-head against uneducated and unsupported cold turkey quitters.
The industry asks us to close our eyes to a number of study blinding assessments which found that roughly three times as many study participants correctly guessed their assignment (to placebo or active group) than who couldn't.
Drug addiction may be the only study area where use of placebo controls is license to steal. Think about it. What other study condition is like full-blown withdrawal and not seen in participants until researchers induce it by telling them to attempt to stop smoking nicotine? It's bass ackwards from other studies and so are the results, which here measure frustrated and fulfilled expectations, not efficacy.
It's time that we had the courage to start calling sham science by its real name ... fraud. Do some of these researchers belong in prison? If it's ever shown that they had blinding failure or other critical study insights that were kept secret, that they were part of a conspiracy of silence that cost thousands of smokers their lives, then, yes. They need to be locked up for a long, long time.
As is probably apparent, I grow more frustrated with each new aspect of industry control. Their latest projects include forcing state legislatures to mandate that insurance companies must cover and pay for their products (Rhode Island is the latest example - see http://www.projo.com/
generalasse...17.39694ad.html ). They include a movement to establish national cessation counselor certification standards that are based exclusively on their own "evidence-based" standards (see http://www.attud.org/about.php ). Imagine being against the law for you to help your best friend quit or from establishing local quitter support groups such as NA. They want to shut down education oriented counseling and support resources such as WhyQuit and I predict that eventually they'll succeed. It's coming. Thanks again, Dr. Siegel for speaking truth to economic power. All we can do is keep trying.
Oh, and yes, the black box warning has been ordered for both Chantix and Zyban - http://www.thompson.com/public/n...OODDRUG&
id=2207 Not only is using these products mandatory, they can kill you. I challenge anyone to locate any news story about a cold turkey quitter committing suicide. They're a bit hard to find.
Regards,
John
John R. Polito
john@whyquit.com
Perhaps they will eventually realise that their super addictive drug Nicotine, that they've built their whole business campaign around - isn't.
However do without a little vitamin B3 everyday and you are dead.
"Pellagra is clinically manifested by the 4 D' s: photosensitive dermatitis, diarrhea, dementia, and death. The full tetrad of symptoms is usually not well developed in infants and children. This vitamin deficiency responds to treatment with nicotinic acid.
Pellagra is observed in malnourished individuals and as a complication of isoniazid therapy; however, the diagnosis is often overlooked or delayed, occasionally with life-threatening consequences. Isoniazid-induced pellagra may occur despite pyridoxine supplementation.
Pellagra first was recognized in the United States in 1902, and it became an epidemic in the American South. Poverty and corn consumption were the most frequently observed risk factors. The public became pellagraphobic, and patients were shunned and ostracized"
http://emedicine.medscape.com/ar...095845-
overview
I have to say that it is the least effective and most expensive way of getting nicotinic acid into the system, but presumably thats why that fact was covered up 70 years ago.
Michael,
Congratulations on your none-too-soon revelation. The conglomerate of BigPharma and the dismembered body part (heart and lung foundations) and disease (cancer societies) groups are all part of the allopathy machine. They are behind the current antismoking crusade. They have been sponsors of these sparkling conferences for a long while. Why have you only just noticed? Your next step is to comprehend that the whole idea that smokers, as ‘addicts’, in need of cessation ‘salvation’ was all championed by these groups, too. It is all a self-serving (money generating), allopathy exercise.
If you needed more evidence that TC is a cult, peruse their new ‘offerings’ and initiatives. When people don’t come to the cult, the cult goes to the people. There have been cult groups renown for recruiting from the street or their wonderful door-to-door spiels. We can now include TC with their ‘recruiting’ drive.
Recruiting smokers into services: development and innovation
“In October 2008, the Department of Health ran a series of Face-to-Face recruitment events across London. The events consisted of a stand in different venues – including shopping centres, supermarkets and high streets – with professional recruiters signing up smokers who want support from NHS stop smoking services. The evaluation found the events to be a cost effective way of recruiting quitters. However it also found a low conversion rate, with high numbers of quitters ‘dropping out’ during the follow up stage.”
I think that ‘dropping out’ would better refer to those smokers escaping before they can be bundled into waiting ‘recruitment’ vans ready to wisk them off to the nearest social pharmacist for their introduction/indoctrination to NRT. Fortunately, there are high numbers that escape (drop out) in the follow-up stage, the ‘newly-recruited’ noticing the lean offerings of the TC cult. Notice that they even use the word ‘conversion’. This can have a sales or marketing connotation. It can also have a religious one.
“In February to March 2009, the London Social Marketing Unit and Regional Team is testing four different recruitment approaches – stand based events; pharmacies; roving street marketing and door-to-door – with three types of follow-up methods – LSSS lead, professional call centre and instant appointments.”
They even have ‘roving street marketing and door-to-door’. I can see a need for signage: “No Tobacco Control Hawkers. Thank You”
Pfizer even had a quiz (oh goody!) for the good boys and girls of TC.
Hosted by Gay Sutherland - she added that understated flair to the BigPharma presentations. The ‘quiz’ touched on cutting-edge information - How much did Nicorette turn over last year? What sort of vacation will your pushing of Nicotinell allow you to take this year?
One fact that did not make an appearance is how ineffective NRT is.
“Identify training needs”.
From TC’s point of view this involved the quickest identification of opportunities to push ‘the product’ and how to efficiently collect holiday travel brochures.
The real training need, however, and not identified at this year’s conference, is some intensive courses in sensibility, integrity, honesty and humanity.
Pfizer symposium
'Test the smoking cessation nation - it’s fastest finger first to test your knowledge and identify training needs in the smoking cessation community!'
http://www.uknscc.org/
2009_UKNSC..._symposium.html
The evergreen Stanton also made an appearance. Representing years of profound academic endeavor, straining every neuron to fatigue, Stanton, again, indicated the ‘effect’ of smoking in movies on smoking uptake in youth. The riveting presentation even dazzled the intellectually-compromised audience that TC is. To further make his point, Stanton made his presentation wearing a tutu, checking with an exit poll how many of the audience had been ‘swayed’ to ballet.
There were a number of ‘Parallel Sessions’. These were in the alternative, upside-down, universe that TC occupies.
Just having some fun
On a serious note, notice the number of health ‘psychologists’. What are these? They demonstrate by their very presence at this conference and their materialist offerings that they have no comprehension of actual psychological health (let alone multi-dimensional health) and the multi-dimensional damage wreaked by healthism and the antismoking crusade, which they are party to. ‘Health psychology’, a recent concoction, is part of the allopathy machine.
_
Too easy Rick,too easy
Here's a rather startling website.
Allopathy
http://www.whale.to/a/allopathy_h.html
A couple of years ago, I couldn't work out why so many things were made out of coal tar, from dyes to medicine, its because they had a lot of coal and their technology was based on it.
Access to oil is tricky if you have very little of your own.
According to the International Agency for Research on Cancer, preparations that include more than 5 percent of crude coal tar are Group 1 carcinogen.
http://www.chemie.de/lexikon/e/Coal_tar/
"Another German, Paul Ehrlich, started experimenting to see if coal tar dyes could be swallowed and used as 'magic bullets' to kill specific bacteria. Gerhard Domagk, a follower of Ehrlich, discovered that a red dye called Prontosil killed the Streptococcus microbe that causes blood poisoning when he tested it on mice! His own daughter suddenly became dangerously ill with blood poisoning after pricking her finger with a dirty needle. Domagk had no choice - he gave his beloved daughter the Prontosil, as yet untested on humans. She rapidly recovered - although her skin turned an interesting shade of red for a time!"
http://www.scarletpixel.com/zoct00.html
Spies and Dyes
http://www.colorantshistory.org/
...SpiesDyes2.html
Doc please name any conference that doesn't have nicorette, chantrix, zyban, etc funding; and pharma tutorials.
In the nicotine market, manufactures and/or marketers of cigarettes, smokeless tobacco products, nicotine inhalers (called e-cigarettes), and NRT products (patches, gums and lozenges) all compete against each other.
But since higher priced NRT products are also disliked by most smokers (and thus cannot compete against cigarettes, smokefree tobacco products or e-cigarettes in a free market), NRT manfucturers, marketers and their funding recipients have colluded to deceptively market NRT as medicine and to lobby for price subsidization by governments and insurance companies, while simultaneously demonizing and lobbying to excessively tax and/or ban smokefree tobacco products and e-cigarettes (which are nearly the same as NRT except they are less costly and preferred by far more nicotine users).
Bill
“But since higher priced NRT products are also disliked by most smokers”
I think ineffective, rather than ‘disliked’, is appropriate. This calls into question the ‘addiction’ hypothesis that was put into motion by the stroke of a pen, rather than coherent reasoning. It also calls into question viewing smokeless tobacco or e-cigs as preferable ‘nicotine delivery’ systems. These may prove to be only slightly more effective, although still ineffective. You seem to only be concerned that BigPharma won’t give these alternatives a look-in (which is standard procedure by BigPharma, by the way). What if they’re all essentially useless?
Allopathy, as a materialist view, has manufactured nicotine as the centrality in smoking and, therefore, cessation (and the peddling of its ‘products’). What if nicotine is not the centrality, or even the greater part of tobacco-smoking? There’s plenty of evidence for that.
Bill, what if, just what if – an alternative hypothesis, ‘addiction’ is better understood as one of a number of healthist proclamations that are central to the ‘denormalization of smokers’ quest? And, this scenario also allows BigPharma to peddle its nicotine wares, albeit fraudulently. In other words, to fraudulently peddle (on ‘addiction’ grounds) its wares, BigPharma (and pharma-philanthropy) has played a highly active role (funding) in the denormalization of smokers.
_
Coal tar again,
"Commercially, niacin is obtained from beta -picoline or from quinoline, which are both obtainable from coal tar."
Niacinamide, more water soluble, is the amide form of niacin. When an amide molecule attaches itself to niacin, it becomes niacinamide.
The B vitamins niacin and niacinamide are known as preventives of pellagra. Niacin is interchangeable in metabolism with its amide, niacinamide.
Nicotinamide is hydrolyzed to the acid in the digestive tract of non-ruminants. After absorption in the mucosa, the amide is formed again.
In the rumen of ruminants, nicotinamide is converted in a short time to nicotinic acid. Nicotinamide and nicotinic acid are therefore equivalent in action in the case of farm animals.
These are key ingredients in animal feed and animal feed premixes as these contribute to numerous metabolic reactions as hydrogentransferring coenzymes. Niacin acts to reduce plasma cholesterol, as a vasodilator and to treat pellagra"
http://www.chemicalland21.com/ar...foco/
NIACIN.htm
Nicotinic Acid Utilization of Tobacco Waste
According to this -
"Nicotinic acid was first made by the oxidation of nicotine and Whiffens operate a commercial process in this country starting with tobacco.
Later they were supplied with nicotine by the British Nicotine Company and continued the oxidation.
Finally - before the Second World War - they found they were unable to compete with manufacturers starting from quinoline and picoline although it could be made directly from tobacco waste, from pyridine, some other coal tar bases, nicotine, anabasine, nor-nicotine or mixed tobacco alkaloids.
The U.S. Department of Agriculture sponsored work aimed to make nicotine compete, as early as 1942, but although a new catalytic oxidation process was developed quinoline was still the cheapest source of nicotinic acid.
Comparative costs were published in 1951 by Coal Tar Products of Philadelphia"
http://www.health.gov.bc.ca/guil...07/
00000711.pdf
So that is why Anti-Tobacco in the 30's and 40's were so worried about people getting cigarette cravings from eating enriched bread.
Big Anti has known all along.
The Orthomolecular view
"Vitamin B3 occurs in two forms, nicotinamide and nicotinic acid. They were first isolated from liver in 1937 by Conrad Elvehjem and shown to
be what was then called the PP factor or pellagra preventative factor. The name was later changed to vitamin B3, commonly called niacin for the
nicotinic acid form and niacinamide for the amide form.
Soon after, a synopsis of the early research on the compound was published in 1941 by the Merck Company. The coenzymes NAD and NADP which niacin makes are essential for many enzyme reactions in the energy production systems of all cells. Before a total picture of the importance of NAD could be discussed, research was apparently interrupted by World War II.
Since the development of agriculture, humans have been susceptible to what I call the niacin deficiency or NAD deficiency diseases, through a partial adaptation to less meat in the diet.
As even the Krebs cycle does not function without the coenzymes NAD and NADP a steady supply is necessary, and is obtained through niacin, as niacin makes NAD.
An active man would have had to eat 5000 calories of skeletal meat per day to obtain 125 mg of niacin, but the partial substitution of liver would reduce calories and increase
abundantly the amount of niacin.
The recommended daily allowance is a mere 20 mg of niacin, and this false assumption is the basis for much disease today."
The Predator Response Mechanism
Hypothesis.
Man is carnivorous, man is a predator, and the struggle is an old one.
Built onto the primitive part of the brain is a simple mechanism to regulate the behavior of the predator.
It is a trigger which is activated when levels of NAD become low, and NAD receptor sites are left uncovered.The predator seeks niacin at this point. One could say the need is a purely chemical one, a need to cover those receptor sites."
They then go one to say -
"Nicotine in tobacco is a vasoconstrictor that relieves the pangs of niacin deficiency or hunger".
Nearly
The Absorption of Niacin in the Smoking of Cigarettes 1944
http://legacy.library.ucsf.edu/a...bde38e00&
page=2
niacin
"pellagra-preventing vitamin in enriched bread," 1942, coined from ni(cotinic) ac(id) + -in, chemical suffix; suggested by the American Medical Association as a more commercially viable name than nicotinic acid.
"The new name was found to be necessary because some anti-tobacco groups warned against enriched bread because it would foster the cigarette habit." ["Cooperative Consumer," Feb. 28, 1942]
"Niacin was first described by Hugo Weidel in 1873 in his studies of nicotine.[4] The original preparation remains useful: the oxidation of nicotine using nitric acid.[5] Niacin was extracted from livers by Conrad Elvehjem who later identified the active ingredient, then referred to as the "pellagra-preventing factor" and the "anti-blacktongue factor."[6] When the biological significance of nicotinic acid was realized, it was thought appropriate to choose a name to dissociate it from nicotine, in order to avoid the perception that vitamins or niacin-rich food contains nicotine, or that cigarettes contain vitamins. The resulting name 'niacin' was derived from nicotinic acid + vitamin.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nic.../
Nicotinic_acid
Its easy for anyone to find.
Sorry, forgot the orthomolecular link
http://www.orthomolecular.org/li...v01n03-
p149.pdf
For Rose,
How did man survive for thousands of years without nicotine?
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubm.../pubmed/
8548128
"We report on the morphological and trace element findings of several internal organs from an Egyptian mummy approximately dating from the year 950 B.C."
" In addition, analysis for various drugs revealed a significant deposition of tetrahydrocannabinol (THC), nicotine and cocaine in several organs of the mummy. The concentration profiles additionally provide evidence for a preferential inhalation of THC, while nicotine and cocaine containing drugs seem to have been consumed orally."
and then ...
http://www.faculty.ucr.edu/~legn...thnic/
mummy.htm
"The biggest criticism was that cocaine and nicotine could not possibly have been used in Egypt before the discovery of the New World, and that transatlantic journeys were not known ..."
"Smoke" Like An Egyptian
http://www.youtube.com/watch?
v=B...feature=related
Tobacco is FDA approved and insuring the healthcare of millions.®
(which are nearly the same as NRT except they are less costly and preferred by far more nicotine users).
Bill Godshall
Nicotine Users?
Bill, back in the 80's there was a nicotine free cigarette called, I believe, FREE. For over 6 months I smoked these nicotine free cigs, EXCLUSIVELY. I never missed the nicotine, and was quite satisfied with the product. Unfortunately they were removed from the market, and I just went back to regular cigs.
The point is, there is MUCH, MUCH more to smoking than the nicotine. I'm quute surprised that a 3 pack a day smoker wouldn't know this, or at least not lie about it.
Dr. Siegel, I don't know how you and my dearly departed friend the late Gian Turci can stand for this kind of blatant BS and keep on going.
You are better men than me. I couldn't take the nonsense. It was driving me nuts. I took a vacation from your blog and Forces. Fascism is just too damn depressing.
I think back to my many personal heated e-mail exchanges with Gian. I would tell him that he is being a little bit unrealistic when he would complain that Dr. Siegel wasn't getting it.
I would write back "What the Hell do you expect him to say, 'Yeah, smoke up, it's great???', he's a Tobacco Control Doctor for crying out loud."
Thank God our founding Fathers in America didn't take a break from defending freedom against British taxation and tyranny. More men who are better than me.
I even switched to electronic cigarettes 95% of the time. Bill Godshall and Dr. Siegel will be pleased. I am. I love it. I feel better, I can run and I don't smell.
I still feel ashamed. I'm putting down the e-cig and going out under the deck awning to smoke two real tobacco cigarettes for Gian and freedom.
I will blow smoke in the general direction of the grant junkies and Gubmint tit sucking public health professionals at this UK conference. Hope they can smell it.
I know you are reading this up in Heaven....You were right, Gian, these people can't be reasoned with. The whole racket of "Public Health" and control freaks needs to be torn down.
BTW, the FDA should indeed check these electronic cigarettes out....I swear they are putting something in there that stimulates the happiness gland...I'm positively giddy.
It must be the freedom they put into it.
"UK National Smoking Cessation Conference Prostitutes Itself By Allowing Itself to Be Bought by Big Pharma; No Wonder Tobacco Control Science is Biased"
Money might explain the biased science, but it doesn't explain why you people got so involved in forcing people to quit smoking in the first place.
I was at the 10th Annual Aryans Square Dance and Hate Fest last weekend. The theme this year was, "Jews: Denormalize the M***********s and turn them into Christians, or just send them straight to Hell?"
I asked, "Why do you care if they become Christians or not?"
The answer was, "What good is it to inherit the world If you lose your soul?"
I thought "Wow! That beats the hell out of what anti-tobacco has to offer, several extra years of life."
I'm really conflicted Doc. Should I care enough of my fellow man to help denormalize those m***********s or should I stick to my leanings of, "I don't really give a damn one way or the other?"
James,
In your heart and mind you already know the answer to your own question....
MONEY. POWER. CONTROL.
A question for Rick,
Not too long before he passed away, during the Brussels conference I believe, Gian Turci and I were discussing how Australia was not represented and how we didn't have any contacts with that country. And now you pop up and I can't stop thinking how happy Gian would have been to know you if in fact he didn't. Did you ever get to exchange with Gian on a one to one? If not, both you and he missed out on a lot!
Rick and Iro:
There is nothing more addicting than power and control. Money and sex are just the fringe benefits.
It must be. People are willing to lie to be elected to public office. It must be better than crack.
I digress. ...Gian managed to hijack this thread even though he is physically "dead". When you touch other peoples llives and thoughts whether it is through your words or simply by raising your kids to be taxpaying citizens you are immortal. You live forever.
Since this thread has been hijacked by the immortal Gian already (sorry Dr. Siegel), let me tell you an anecdote about Gian.
It was a cold evening in Brussels (well, cold for our Italian friend but certainly mild for me Four of us left the hotel to go meet the conference delegates for a friendly get together at the smoking Brussels Irish Pub. We had to walk quite a way either because we didn't take the right metro or who knows why and I certainly didn't care. Walking and chatting with Gian was part of the evening pleasure as far as I was concerned. The 2 younger men in our party were leaps ahead of us and Gian and I (both in our 50's) were lagging behind. To me it was an enjoyable moment and I wanted to share how I felt with Gian. I stopped, looked at Gian and said: Look Gian, even if this conference doesn't yield too many positive results look at the bright side, we got to meet each other in person and we're sharing a moment. If that's all that comes out of this conference, I'll be a very happy woman. Gian looked at me with fire in his eyes and replied: The Jews during the Nazi era had something positive to rejoice for also: They didn't have to pay any taxes!
If you're reading us Gian. ''Luv ya'' !
Iro,
That was Gian. I only know him from our 400 plus e-mails. I wish I could have been there to light up a cigarette and gladly pay the fine with Gian and you in Brussels. I had to be here to go to work and provide for my family.
He was the man who inspired me to be politically incorrect by rewriting a sacred poem written by a Nazi victim to fit today's times.
When they came for the drinkers during Prohibition, I did not speak out, as I was not a drinker.
When they came for the employees of the oldest profession in the world, I did not speak out, as I had no interest in purchasing sex.
When they came for the purveyors of what was deemed to be "obscene" or "offensive", I did not speak out, as I was not a fan of entertainers like Lenny Bruce or Howard Stern.
When they came to ban the female mammary gland from TV, I did not speak out, because Brian Boitano told me not to.
When they came for the marijuana smokers, I did not speak out, as I was not a marijuana smoker.
When they came for the steroid users, I did not speak out, as I was not a steroid user.
When they came for the _______ (insert nominally objectionable behavior here), I did not speak out as I was not a _________ (fill in the blank).
When they came for the fireworks buyer, I did not speak out, as I just sat on my lawn chair and watched the State sponsored 4th of July event
When they came for the pornographers, I did not speak out, as I was not a pornographer.
When they came for the people who don't wear seatbelts, I did not speak out, as I always wore my seatbelt.
When they came for the gun owners, I did not speak out, as I was not a gun owner.
When they came for the gamblers, I did not speak out, as I was not a gambler.
When they came for the "polluters", I did not speak out as I was not a polluter.
When they came for the SUV drivers, I did not speak out, as I did not drive an SUV.
When they came for the cigarette smokers, I did not speak out, as I was not a smoker.
When they came for the overweight and the obese, I did not speak out, as I was not overweight or obese.
When they came for the drinkers (again), I did not speak out, as I was not a drinker.
Then they came for me...and there was nobody left to speak out.
You can't be afraid to call anti tobacco what it is. Smokers are the "New Niggers".
If Dr. Siegel or the grant junkies at this conference in the UK think that description is harsh, I would like a chance to speak at a breakout session where I will explain to them that it is actually a pretty benign description in comparison.
At least in the midst of the disgusting "Separate but Equal" Jim Crow days, African Americans had a place to go that was their own. Smokers can't even have that.
It would get in the way of coercing them to quit.
Doc, once again you're missing something. It's not as tho Big Pharma suddenly hijacked your movement. As Si pointed out, they've been bankrolling it for decades. Money for "research" grants, ban lobbying. And making big money by suckering municipalities into buying their wares-- with sales as the major motive for their investment in Tobacco Control.
And no matter how many times most of us point out to you that nicotine isn't "it," you'd rather take the word of nonsmoking academics. Wow.
OT
Fascinating article on state-managed "health care" (the state in question is Oregon) which, on its list of pressing priorities (where it's most "effective" to spend taxpayers' money) has recently decided that anti smoking and anti obesity "training" is worth more time, effort and money than providing actual care for people who are desperately ill with heart or lung disease, and such minor inconveniences as gangrene and burst appendixes. Illuminating.
http://junkfoodscience.blogspot....ch-what-
it.html
Dr Siegel,do you want to get to the root of the evil and start to remove the cancerous growths that have occurred and will continue to occur OR do you wish to continue to act as a petulant child who hasn't got his own way ? TC doesn't care about the lies that they tell because they can get away with them every time.Money breeds contempt ,can you not see that the level of money involved pays off everyone involved ? You may well act like a rose thorn to them,but isn't it about time you gave those bastards lockjaw or something better ?
"The concentration profiles additionally provide evidence for a preferential inhalation of THC, while nicotine and cocaine containing drugs seem to have been consumed orally."
ES
What a delightful question to start the morning!
Thank you for the song, it's one of my favourites.
Well I have no idea about the Egyptian cocaine trade, perhaps if the Romans hadn't burned down The Great Library of Alexandria in an act of cultural vandalism, we might even have some receipts.
I have no problem with trans-atlantic trade, but the archaeologists last century protected their theories that Rome was the centre of the universe and everyone else mere savages.
( This is because history is written by the victors )
For example they said we were a bunch of savages and thoroughly improved by being invaded.
Modern archaeology tells a different story.
The Mystery of the Cocaine Mummies
"One senior academic thinks it's important to remember that before the discovery of this Norse settlement in Newfoundland in 1965 theories about Viking voyages to America were dismissed as nonsense.
PROF MARTIN BERNAL - Historian, Cornell University:
"What we've seen is a shift from the idea of Viking landings in America being seen as completely fantastic or partisan, to being accepted by every scholar in the field."
NARRATOR: The fact that evidence of the Viking crossings was hidden has encouraged Martin Bernal to contemplate even earlier voyages that are likewise dismissed as impossible."
They have found other odd things
NARRATOR:
Yet discovery of minute strands of silk found in the hair of a mummy from Luxor could suggest the trade stretching from Egypt to the Pacific. For silk at this time was only known to come from China. Martin Bernal argues that it would be a pity to replace earlier cultural arrogance with an arrogant belief in progrss.
PROF MARTIN BERNAL - Historian, Cornell University:
"We're getting more and more evidence of world trade at an earlier stage. You have the Chinese silk definitely arriving in Egypt by 1000BC. I think modern scholars have a tendency to believe rigidly in progress and the idea that you could only have a worldwide trading network from the 18th century onwards, is our temporal arrogance - that it's only modern people that can do these things."
NARRATOR:
"The jury was still out on the vanished species of tobacco though Michelle Lescot was convinced that her identification had been correct. But she couldn't help with the cocaine, for it seemed not even one botanist believed in a disappearing coca plant."
http://www.druglibrary.org/schaf...isc/
mummies.htm
The truth about Tobacco is probably a little more mundane.
A recently discovered rare species
"Nicotiana africana is a species of plant in the Solanaceae family. It is endemic to Namibia. Its natural habitats are subtropical or tropical dry shrubland and rocky areas." http://www.reference.com/browse/
...otiana+africana
"The recent discovery of Nicotiana africana Merxm. extended the known natural distribution of the genus to another continent and generated considerable interest in this geographically isolated species. The chromosome complement (2n = 46) consists of two metacentric pairs and 21 pairs of acrocentrics. Four pairs organize nucleoli, but only two pairs have visible secondary constrictions. The distribution of heterochromatin and the karyotype show similarities with species of the Australian section of the genus, Suaveolentes, to which N. africana is related, and also to some American species"
http://jhered.oxfordjournals.org...stract/73/2/
115
"How did man survive for thousands of years without nicotine?"
Nicotine is not important, nicotinic acid is, and thats everywhere.
But burning tobacco appears to be the fastest way to get it, no 20 minute wait for digestion like coffee.
"Herodotus' ancient records of the Scythian hemp rites were once believed to be mythical, but they were verified in 1929, with the discovery of a Scythian tomb in Pazyryk, Western Altai, by Professor S. I. Rudenko. As cannabis expert Ernest Abel explains in Marihuana, the First 12,000 Years:
"Digging into some ancient ruins near the Altai Mountains on the border between Siberia and Outer Mongolia, Rudenko found a trench about 160 feet square and about 20 feet deep. On the perimeter of the trench were the skeletons of a number of horses. Inside the trench was the embalmed body of a man and a bronze cauldron filled with burnt marihuana seeds!
Clearing the site further, Rudenko also found some shirts woven from hemp fibre and some metal censors designed for inhaling smoke which did not appear to be connected with any religious rite. To Rudenko, the evidence suggested that inhalation of smoldering marihuana seeds occurred not only in religious context, but also as an everyday activity in which Scythian women participated alongside the men." http://www.cannabisculture.com/b.../
scythians.html
I am sure there were some puritans about in ancient days, but they were probably, regularly suppressed.
Incidentally,
If you go to the bleak parts of Hadrians Wall and look close to the wall next to the watchtowers on the sheltered side, you will find garlic and raspberries dwarfed by the severe climate over generations.
Iro,
Thank you for the thought. Yes, I do tend to ‘pop up’.
Unfortunately, I didn’t have the pleasure of chatting with Gian; our paths didn't meet.
I can see that you hold him in high esteem. I have just a very little familiarity with Gian’s thinking from some of his comments on the Forces website and his talk (video) at the conference. He was obviously a very passionate man as to what he believed in. Although our backgrounds are somewhat different, from the little I am aware of, we probably would have gotten along well. We might have even chatted in Italian – I can sort of fumble and bumble my way through the language.
But, I should point out that I wouldn’t fit the bill as an ‘activist’ (anti-antismoking or even ‘rights’), as such. I journey fairly light, involved in a more metaphysical pursuit (which should be noticeable if you read right through to the end of my book). I try to keep in touch with the antismoking issue here and there, when I can, because it’s highly symptomatic of a far greater monster – the shallowness of materialism. Materialism is the convergence point for all sorts of contorted thinking and emotion. Hence, my interest is not so much countering antismoking as it is highlighting the perils of materialism and how it produces a momentum such as antismoking, amongst other destructive things. And, you might be surprised (or maybe not) how many do not want to know. That’s the nature of the time: That’s why it’s so dangerous.
Having some free time at the moment, while following some links from other sites, I happened to ‘stumble’ on Michael’s blog, where I couldn’t help but notice the unusual, thoughtful dissent and information. I’m very happy to ‘park’ myself here for a little while, while time permits. Following the variety of viewpoints in the posts has been enjoyable and enlightening. I hope I might even be of some help in disentangling some of the layers in what I believe to be an unfolding metaphysical catastrophe.
Apologies for the long-winded response.
_
ladyteal wrote:
"Bill, back in the 80's there was a nicotine free cigarette called, I believe, FREE. For over 6 months I smoked these nicotine free cigs, EXCLUSIVELY. I never missed the nicotine, and was quite satisfied with the product. Unfortunately they were removed from the market, and I just went back to regular cigs."
Markets don't lie. Nicotine free cigarettes have never been successful in the market (i.e. never achieved even .1% of market share) because virtually every daily smoker smokes to obtain nicotine.
Although Liggett's Quest brand line of so-called low nicotine cigarettes have been sold in some states for the past five years, I've never seen (and the company hasn't made available) sales data for the three different Quest brands (Quest 1, Quest 2, Quest 3).
Ever since Quest was introduced and marketed as low nicotine, I've suspected that Quest 1 (which is similar to other light cigarettes) has comprised at least 75% of all Quest sales, with far fewer sales of Quest 2, and with even fewer sales of Quest 3 (which has virtually no nicotine).
Folks who smoke Quest are simply a small segment of the market who inaccurately believe that low nicotine cigarettes are less hazardous than other cigarettes, that smoking low nicotine cigarettes will make it easier for them to quit, and/or that Quest 1 has less nicotine than other light cigarettes.
I also think that some of the anti tobacco extremists that have been advocating FDA regulations to mandate very low nicotine levels in all cigarettes have done so because they know that smokers don't like (and won't continue buying) low nicotine cigarettes (despite claiming that they want low nicotine cigarettes mandated in order to protect the kids by making cigarettes less addictive).
I also think that some of the anti tobacco extremists that have been advocating FDA regulations to mandate very low nicotine levels in all cigarettes have done so because they know that smokers don't like (and won't continue buying) low nicotine cigarettes
Thus turning all smokers into criminals as they turn to the black market for real cigarettes. Then everyone can brag about how they've forced so many to quit and in the next breath accuse of funding terrorist groups by buying black market and basically cheating the government out of the tax dollars.
How they want it both ways is hysterical.
''Markets don't lie''
And I certainly believe this.
Remember it Mr. Godshall next time TC spouts that smoking bans were brought about because of popular demand. If there was popular demand, ''markets that don't lie'' would have gone smoke free without legislation. I don't know enough about the States' trend prior to smoking bans to make an accurate statement, but in Quebec some did go smoke-free prior to the ban. They were just the right amount to supply the demand. As demand for smoke-free venues increased, more would go smoke-free on their own free will. Now that the balance of free-market demand has been totally upset, many go out of business. I don't care how much they try to blame this on the economy, smoking bans set the trend of closures almost immediately after their implementation way before the economic slow down.
Rick, thanks for your reply. I had to put your book aside for now because I can't get enough quality time to concentraste long enough to fully appreciate it.
Bill Godshall
But since higher priced NRT products are also disliked by most smokers (and thus cannot compete against cigarettes, smokefree tobacco products or e-cigarettes in a free market), NRT manfucturers, marketers and their funding recipients have colluded to deceptively market NRT as medicine and to lobby for price subsidization by governments and insurance companies, while simultaneously demonizing and lobbying to excessively tax and/or ban smokefree tobacco products and e-cigarettes (which are nearly the same as NRT except they are less costly and preferred by far more nicotine users).
Bill Godshall you don't talk from a place of experience but one of activist. I would like to see a breakdown of smokers based on the stress of their job. Smoking rates go up in proportion to stress. The fact that tobacco use doubled in the military as the result of two wars pretty much proves my point. People have a tendency to self medicate, All of the replacement products are a dismal failure including the e-cigarette.
Also the BS that smoking causes x amount of premature deaths is pure BS. I won't argue that it may be a contributing factor there is strong statistical evidence that it is. But if you look at the lung cancer rates across the country and the fact is that the lung cancer rates across the country are not spread evenly based on smoking rates. I am getting older and know four people that have died from lung cancer and only one was a smoker.
This study backs me up.
Lung cancer is the leading cause of cancer death in Taiwanese women since 1982. High lung cancer mortality ratio of male:female in Taiwan (2:1) was observed, although less than 10% of female lung cancer patients are smokers.
http://cancerres.aacrjournals.or...tract/61/7/
2799
Like I said I do not argue that smoking is not a contributing factor, and because lung cancer rates are localized tobacco use alone is not the answer. Also it shows that the weak statistics associated with second hand smoke should be looked at with a jaundice eye. I respect Dr. Siegel for his honesty but he still believes in the cause and therefore still clings to weak statistics. Statistics alone is not proof.
I will also argue again that people with high stress jobs tend to smoke. Has there ever been a study done on whether smoking reduced the stress and therefore extended their life. Again I bring up the military. Smoking in the military has doubled since we got involved in two wars. Tobacco control activist concentrate on the negative effects ignoring any and all benefits. As long as it is based on cherry picked studies with no basis in fact your NRT claim is pure B.S.
Good luck, hope everything works out for you!
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