What do you expect him to say?
That we should give up Israel as a Jewish state? Maybe we should make it a Muslim one, under the "Sharia" laws?
Sun Tze, says in his book 'The art of war':"War is a fundumental waypoint in a nation's life,since it's the base for either life or death- the way leading to survival or destruction..."
War is an option, when there are no other options. Giving up on Israel as a Jewish state is for sure not an option.
" What do you expect him to say?
That we should give up Israel as a Jewish state? Maybe we should make it a Muslim one, under the "Sharia" laws?"
I gues I was thinking of strange modern concepts like a state of all its citizens. A bizarre idea, no?
IDFs kind of thinking has, as it's logical endpoint, the ethnic cleansing or killing of Israels' Palestinian 'citizens'. There are Israeli ministers (you know who) and fanatical judeo-fundamentalists who openly call for such action.
And why wouldn't they, when the 'right' of having an exclusive ethnic state is the held up as the highest ideal, and "killing everyone in the way" simply the means to achieve it.
Previous governments of an ultra-nationalist character have held similiar views with predictable consequences.
History's lesson might be; don't go there.
There are always options- the great myth of this conflict is that there are no alternatives to the status quo.
"I gues I was thinking of strange modern concepts like a state of all its citizens. A bizarre idea, no?"
Are you serious? Could you please tell me, what will the purpose of Israel be if it became a state of all it citizens?!?!
If to accept your point of view, we could be still living in..mmmm...I don't know...Germany?US? Why do we need a country if we create a state of all its citizens?
I liked that you said "modern idea", as if to say we ride on camels in Israel...a good one...
War is a bitch and shit obviously happens....
Let us live our lives, whether modern or not...I've got no other place...and will do anything to keep it as my own....
If you are curious whether it hurts me when a Palestinian child gets hurt by the IDF, well it does...But, it hurts me more when an Israeli child is hurt....call me crazy, I just seem to like my people better...
This website should be banned. It uses straw man arguments that are designed to deflect attention away from the facts for what can only be anti semitic purposes.
"Are you serious? Could you please tell me, what will the purpose of Israel be if it became a state of all it citizens?!?! " - IDF
Another strange modern concept like democracy.
"If to accept your point of view, we could be still living in..mmmm...I don't know...Germany?, US?" -IDF
I've got news for you IDF, people are living in Germany and the US.
And of course if we accept your point of view as being reasonable, then there definitely wouldn't be any Jews living in Germany, as you sem to share theideals of an ultra-nationalistic, ethnic based state, of an early 20th C. German government.
Always remember Michael,
it's the Arabs and Palestinians who are backward and uncivilised.
Hold on,
wasn't that one of the excuses for colonising Palestine by these East European immigrants in first place.
As I have said elsewhere,
now that all the lies and propaganda spouted down the years by the current racist Israeli regime has been shown to be what it is, there is no more hiding places left for these so-called 'pro-Israeli supporters'.
All they can do now is just to straightforwardly admit as to what they are and what they are about
ie neo-nazi genocidal racism.
That is my experience anyway.
What's so bad about a one nation state? Why in f***'s name should it be a a state of all its citizens?
We've tried to live in places, which were not ours...looked what happened...constant "Pogroms" and the grand-finale..The Holocaust..
I want a country of my own, where, unfortunately, Arabs may also live, under the Israeli law.
Well, there's your problem right there,
it isn't your country, is it?
It's been stolen.
It belonged to someone else who were ethnic cleansed from it, and are being ethnically cleansed -
- as for the rest of your Israeli state propaganda, that has nothing whatsoever to do with Palestinians.
One nation states are fine by me - I couldn't care less. Go and have your racially sterilised utopian one nation state on the moon, or mars. for all I care -
- but you can't have them if you have to carry out genocide in order to establish them.
This is all a bit obvious, especially after what the nazis did. I would have thought that would have been one of the main lessons from the experiences learned in WWII, though it seems not. Some people have never heard of the Geneva Conventions, especially the Fourth one.
Sorry mate, but it is my country!
Call me a racist, call me a killer or whatever other name you and your leftist-"people liking"-vegetrian-PETA member friend make up...I have no other place to live in!!!! No I don't want to live in Europe neither in Africa nor in America or Antarctica(though I guess you'd like to see me there...or maybe the pinguines are anti-semitic too?)
My country is Israel and if the brainless Arabs would have agreed to the 1948 UN decision we would have lived in peacem, but they didn't!
Hamas and Jihad and whatever, they want us to leave all of Israel- they will never agree to reconcile for a part of it!!
This argument is as old as Israel is...there will always this bunch of people, who will say:"Israel are terrorists, they kill innocent people" But they will never mention that Qassams were shot from a populized neighborhood.
Or something like:"Israel beats innocent Arabs..." but they'll forget to mention that this so called innocent Arab drove his friend to Tel-Aviv, and the F***er is about to explode himself.
Would you beat the crap out of this piece of shit, if your brother or sister was hanging out on a friday night in Tel-Aviv, and was threatened by this human bomb?
Does any of you live in Israel and can understand this feeling? Being constantly threatened by human bombs?
I'd like to save you some typing minutes, by telling you to save your time and not write something like:
"Can you imagine the miserable Palestinians being terrorized by the IDF"
You can smell something is cooking...it's in the air....the war is in the air...I can feel it...
I'm certain of one thing- Israel will not fall for the third time, it's either now or never.
" What's so bad about a one nation state? Why in f***'s name should it be a a state of all its citizens?
We've tried to live in places, which were not ours...looked what happened...constant "Pogroms" and the grand-finale..The Holocaust.." - IDF
You mean like the German "one-nation state"? Yeah, "what's so bad about" that? Errr..."look what happened" indeed!
Don't you find it strange to be advocating the logic of early 20th C German nationalism??
I'm sorry IDF,
but Palestinians don't want anybody to leave either Israel or Occupied Palestine, and anybody that has told you different is a liar.
Palestinians, long ago agreed to making do with establishing their state on the remaing 22% of their former homeland, generously giving up any rights or claims to the remaing 78%, on which the state of Israel is now established.
I am a pro-Israel supporter and I am also a supporter Palestine, occupied or otherwise - these two positions aren't mutually exclusive.
Nobody wants Israel to disappear, or for Jewish-Israelis to be driven from their homeland. Jewish-Israelis have as much right to live in the state of their own choosing, in this case Israel, as anyone has the world over. Jewish-Israelis were born in Israel and have absolutely every right to live free from violnce, terror and intimidation - to live in peace with their neighbours.
The same goes for Palestinians, and ever other person, the world over.
I am not a 'leftie' or whatever - I support international law and order, a very conservative traditional non-radical point of view. I support your rights as much as the rights of Palestinians, no more and no less.
"I'm sorry IDF,
but Palestinians don't want anybody to leave either Israel or Occupied Palestine, and anybody that has told you different is a liar."
Mate, nobody told me...I live in Israel and it's the rality....
Have your read Hamas's manifest? It's says clearly that Israel has no right to exist!
Other terrorist organizations think alike. If they wanted only 22% of the land, they would have agreed to it a long time ago, starting from 1948 and up till now.... don't be so naive...agreements with Palestinians don't worth the paper they are written on...
Look, we've left the Gaza Strip, but have they developed anything there? have they built new schools or anything to help their own people from being stoneage men? NOTHING!!
They turned this "Jew-Free" area into a Qassam lunchpad.
Who is occupying who?
These are words on paper so what - political parties have their own positions and Hamas are sick of making the same point viz
'Why should Palestinians be forced by their occupiers to say, or do anything, under the duress of a violent racist illegal occupation?'
Imagine the nazis making such demands of occupied europeans? Its laughable!
Why should Occupied Palestinians 'recognise' Israel when Israel doesn't recognise Palestine (WB & G)?
And I agree that Hamas and the current PA government should not, under any circumstances, negotiate with the Israeli government on certain principles. The 'peace process' as everyone knows, is a euphamism for Palestinian ethnic cleansing.
Exactly how are the powerless and destitute Palestinians going to destroy a country with
- the 4th largest army in the world
- its own nuclear deterrent of a few hundred warheads
- the patronage of the world's only military superpower
To believe the Palestinians are a threat in any way, to anybody, never mind Israel is a joke - nothing but pure propaganda!
If Palestinians are such a threat
- why do Jewish-Israelis live inside Occupied Palestine? -
- why does Isael continue to build illegaly on the West Bank?
- surely this shows that the Israeli authorities don't even take their own propaganda and rhetoric seriously?
Anyway, the lie that Hamas can, and will wipe out israel (unbelievable anybody can actually believe that claim) is part of the now discredited propaganda that Arabs, and Arab states, have tried to wipe out Israel on quite a number of occassions, which are just lies. If you don't believe me read one of your own historians, Benny Morris 'Righteous Victims'.
South Africa still exists and Germany still exists - but both these countries used to have pretty horrible regimes - change the government, not the people. The only people that are saying that Israel is going to be wiped out is the current Israeli regime - but they would say that wouldn't they?
Look at all the former regimes in eastern europe which are now history, their great peoples aren't history however and neither are their countries!
I hope this makes sense - all the best!
Perfect sense, joe90.
Keep it up.
Thanks Michael,
coming from you that means a lot to me!
I hope 'IDF' doesn't think I'm talking down to them or trying to 'beat' them in an argument just for the sake of it - IDF seems honest and earnest and I hope they take what I have said in good spirit.
I am not anti-Irsaeli anything, except the current racist-israeli regime, nothing else.
'joe90', thanks for the compliments.. 
Though we share different views, I'm certain you are a "leftie" we can count on.
I would like to reassure you that I'm not willing to see any ethnic cleansing- neither the Palestinian not mine.
Moreover, I see no future without a certain resolution, which will allow us to live side by side- either I like it or not.
I'm not Israeli born- my parents made an "Aliyah"(immigrated) to Israel when I was 2 years old, from former USSR. I don't know what it's like to be russian. I feel 100% Israeli and that's why it's so important for me to defend Israel- I see it as my only homeland.
I forgot to mention one thing: thoght I'm not considered religious, I do believe in God and in the Bible. It may sound a bit fanatic, but I believe that Israel will regain it's biblical size...a person can believe, can't he?
Yes, but the Bible is just a collection of fairytales and myths from thousands of years ago with very little basis in fact or in truth. It is a literary palimpsest, not a straightforward historical document the can be relied on verbatim.
Hitler also made appeals to historical claims to 'lebenraum, in eastern europe, which he claimed once rightfully belonged to the Nordic and Germanic people and had since been taken over by foreigners, such as Slavs and Jews.
Call me a letie if you want, but my views about law and order are traditionally very conservative - I believe in them, both domestically and internationally. There is nothing particularly left-wing, radical or revolutionary about that, unless of course your name happens to be Stalin, Hitler, Sharon, or any Israeli prime minister who has ever lived -
- in which case, anybody who believes in internationally agreed standards of civilised behaviour is a leftie, because there is nothing to the right of any these henious racists and statist ideological fanatics.
As I have said, Israel isn't under attack by anyone except its own self-made demons. Stop committing war crimes and victims won't have to defend themsleves by resorting to the much lesser crime of terrorism. Leave people alone and they won't have to keep defending themselves.
There is no regime in the Middle East that doesn't want to make peace with the current Israeli regime. It is the current Israeli regime which refuses point-blank to leave people in peace and refuses point-blank to abide by international law and order.
Israel is the aggressor and always has been. To blame its victims for the problems Israel creates by its own decades of on-going racist war crimes, is one of the more spectacular achievements of the western propaganda system.
By the way IDF,
please don't think I am dismissing The Bible as of no value - nothing could be further from the truth.
The parts of it that have come down to us, and the great heritage we all share in and to which we all owe a great debt of gratitude is its Jewish part, The Old Testament -
- I don't think there is a more important work that has influenced so many people right up to the present day.
Islam and Christianity owe it a great debt and which they both recognise and acknowledge.
Indeed,
science might tell us a bit about the inert inanimate universe around us, but it tells us absolutely nothing of any real importance. It has nothing to say about how we should live our lives and how to get on with people.
Myths do this, myths contained in religions - they are universal and eternal.
It is one of the many myths (in the derogatory sense of the word) recycled by the western mass media, that people have to either believe religion or believe in science. It is a false dichotomy. Science tells us absolutely nothing about ethics, about morality, about being and belonging.
All the best mate!
ps
It was one of my Scottish compatriots who was responsible for the most important work of literature in the English language - The King James Bible (King James Stuart the VI of Scotland and the I of England)
OMG, it's simply unbelievable...let me take a deep breath and I'll explain why I'm so bewildered....
OK..In August of this year I spent one week in London, which has been my dream for quiet a long time...you probably know that England is quite expensive for foreigners....I simply fell in love with the people...the manners- though the English are considered to be quiet "square" by the Israelis, not as outspoken as we Israelis are. During my visit there we went to Stratford, where I bought the Scottish flag, and since then it's hanging in my room. Ask me why Scottish? I don't know...I've read in several places that the Jews lived quite comfortablly in Scotland..plus I adore the accent..so why not...
Now I met you through this blog, and I clicked on your Homepage, where I saw that you're a part of a group that supports the Palestinians. I must admit I feel a bit weird...
On my trip to England I felt you couldn't be any further from Israel and its problems than in the UK, but it seems that even in remote Scotland people seem to care...well I guess there aren't too ,much things to do...quite cold, isn't it?
P.S. Is there any way I can contact you? Mail/Messanger?
IDF mate,
I just use that as a space-filler for my homepage - I am not a member of any particular organisation except, perhaps, the human race occassionaly.
Look IDF,
nobody has anything against any Jewish-Israeli. Nobody has anything against any American or Brit (or Ozzie). It's the government and the regime that needs changed, not the people!
Look at how many innocent defenceless Iraqis and Afghanis the US and UK governments have butchered between them since their illegal invasions - the Israeli government cannot hold a candle up to Bush and Blair!
It isn't just the Israeli government (and falsely, the Jewish-Israeli people) that folk hold to account. I would be a hypocrite if all I done was criticise some foreign government whilst not holding my own to accountable, as I should, as part of a democracy and all that entails.
Anyway,
I believe there is a lovely community of Jewish folk here in bonnie Scotland, and I can assure you mate, I would be the first to stick up for them if anything untoward happened to them.
As I said IDF as you seem to have forgotten,
I am pro-Palestinian for exactly the same reason I am pro-Israeli, no more and no less.
ps
I suggest it's the colours you like about the bonnie Scottish flag. Its diagonal lines represent the Cross on which Saint Andrew was crucified, who is also the patron saint of Scotland. Its proper name is the 'Saltire' which is medieval latin-Scottish for 'St Andrews Cross'.
Saint Andrew came from your part of the world IDF and was also Jewish, or was before he teamed up with you know who(a bit too theological-historical to get into).
Saint Andrew is also the Patron Saint of Russia, I believe, from whence your parents sprung from, and he is also the patron saint of Greece.
Greece shares the same white and blue colours in their own national flag as us, and whilst Scotland has the 'Athens of North', as Edinburgh was referred to during The Scottish Enlightenment, Greece has the Athens of the South, enough said I think.
Some interesting historical facts you brought up,'joe90'!!
Have you ever visited Israel?
I'm planning to visit Scotland, or so I hope.... though a friend of mine says the weather is cold and the people are even colder..
But I'm planning to find it out by myself...
'joe90', it seems as if you're trying to hold the rope by both of its hands, though I understand you want peace,order and law for both the Israelis and the Palestinians.
Unfortunately, things work a bit differently on this side of the globe...I guess St.Andrew figured it out and that's why he ended up in Scotland...
If you ask me, I really don't what's the solution. We can't kill 'em all, can we? They probably can't kill us all... so eventually we'll have to speak to each other, like it or not.
Maybe the Massiah will come and save us all...but he's got like 250 years to do it (according to Judaism) and he seems to be taking his time...
Our current government is awfull...really just a bunch of idiots...Olmert is a nobody and Peretz the Minister Of Defence is a former workers' rights official...what the hell he's got to do with defence?!? the army's cheif of staff is the first one to come from the Air-Force(all the others came from the infantry, mostly Paratroopers brigade). The stupid bastard was caught selling he's stocks, during the first 5 minutes of the latest war in Lebanon. Yep, quite sad, if to take in consideration that Jews have the biggest number of Nobel prize winners, in realtion to their size as a nation.
P.S
Have you got any relations with Jewish community, where you live? Jewish mates?
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