Mike
If you ask the average Councillor how much their senior managers are paid, they will not know.
Most Councils have a pay review sub-committee, back bench Councillors will never see the minutes of these committees or the "data" that was used as a comparator.
You have to do some forensic questioning to find out the total pension contributions your Council makes, including the "early leavers" contributions.
Wat
This is good Daily Mail tabloid fodder from the TPA but, as is increasingly the case with them, they are taking cheap shots, and appealing to the gut rather than the intellect.
First, the bogey figure of £100,000
It’s a good salary. But there is this disreputable spin from the TPA suggesting that anyone not working in the private sector who earns => £100,000 is ipso facto an undeserving fat cat.
And then you cast your eye towards the city and suggest that all the people working there are “fearsomely bright”. That is bollocks, and you know it. The John-Johns bring a certain barrow-boy cachet to the the city but “fearsomely bright” are not the first two adjectives that spring to mind. Of course there are some very clever people in the city and, in terms of invisible earnings for this country, they are properly well rewarded.
There are also the time servers who may not be going anywhere but who serve out their time on £100 K or more because they are nice, and they don’t make waves and no one wants to sack them... and to the City £100 K is not a mark of achievement. Quite the contrary.
Is it your position that being the Chief Executive of Kent is a job not worth a remuneration of £300,000 a year? That’s, say, about a third or quarter of what a partner at Clifford Chance is earning.
And then you say that the people in the City have to satisfy their customers. Hmmm. Let’s talk to all those people who bought endowment policies, or all those nurses who were persuaded to come out of the NHS pension scheme and transfer to City run private pension schemes. We have not even started on Northern Rock yet. The tax payer paid Sir Richard B. £5 million in expenses for his kindness in submitting his daring asset stripping bid for the company. Dear, oh dear.
Ken Livingspart is shortly to get the sack and rightly so, and deserves all the shit you can throw at him but it is not right to tar all government employees with that brush.
And finally, the “name and shame” of all those local authorities who have not been keen to announce their pay rates. The TPA is always going on about that, isn’t it. I do not think that anyone should sit at the “your salary is too much” table without declaring their own.
So how about this.
***** A challenge to the TAXPAYER’S ALLIANCE ******
Will the founders of and writers for the TPA make a public declaration about their earnings?
Which members of the TPA earn more than £100,000 a year?
+++
Andrew Allum, “founding chairman and governor of St Georges Secondary School” what a good egg, oh dear, I nearly missed that fact that he is a management consultant.
+++
And then dear old Matthew Elliott, another all round “good egg”
“Outside of his work at the TPA, Matthew has visited Azerbaijan (2000), Ukraine (2001) and Serbia (2006) on behalf of the Westminster Foundation.”
Nice. Who picked up the tab for all these junkets?
The only Westminster Foundation I can find is the Westmi
Oh dear, I had forgotten about bloody haloscan word limits. I continued:
The only Westminster Foundation I can find is the Westminster Foundation for Democracy. Surely not. Not the Westminster Foundation for Democracy as in:
“Established in 1992 and registered as a Company Limited by Guarantee, WFD is an independent public body sponsored by the Foreign and Commonwealth Office, from which it receives annual funding of £4.1 million.”
Oh Dear, oh Dear, I think BoM should take a long look into that. Taxpayer fundeded international junkets? Oh dear, oh dear.
Then there is Florence Heath. “Florence currently works as a geologist for an international petroleum company.” She probably is not earning a £100K, but do tell us what salary she has to struggle by on.
Then there are your “prominent supporters”. I list them in full. My heart bleeds for the them for the huge tax burden they all carry. Please advise which of this motley crew are not earning over £100K. I suspect most of them are earning over £1000K
In November 2004 and December 2005, just under 150 businessmen and opinion formers signed two TaxPayers' Alliance letters to the Financial Times, and to the Daily Telegraph. The Financial Times letter concluded that Britain "cannot afford not to cut taxes - and to discipline spending growth accordingly". The Telegraph letter the following month warned that high levels of taxes risked ensuring Britain's long-term economic decline.
The signatories included:
Adam Afriyie
Andrew Allum, Chairman, TaxPayers' Alliance
Michael Ames, Chairman, Crimson Ltd
Henry Angest, Chairman and CEO, Arbuthnot Banking Group plc
Peter Baker, The Front Bench Club
Sir Anthony Bamford, Chairman, J C Bamford Excavators Ltd
Patrick Barbour, Non Executive Director, Microgen plc
Jonathan Bass, Managing Director, Incentivated Ltd
Toby Baxendale, Chairman and CEO, Seafood Holdings Ltd
Neville Baxter, Chairman, RH Freight Ltd
Grahame Berkeley, Chairman, Berkeley Burke Holdings Ltd
Sir Michael Bett, Chairman, Micro Technology Plc
Lord Blackwell, President, Blackwell Ltd
John Blundell, Director General, Institute of Economic Affairs
Jamie Borwick, Chairman, Modec Ltd
Keith Boyfield, Boyfield Associates
Jeremy Bradshaw, Managing Director, Gryphon Partners Ltd
Iain Breese, Chairman, Westler Foods Ltd
Michael Brent, Managing Director, Trimite Ltd
David Briggs, Managing Director, Dawson Music
Cameron Buchanan, Managing Director, Harrisons of Edinburgh Ltd
Simon Camamile, European Director, Jones LaSalle
Charles Cameron, Managing Director, Jefferies International Ltd
Paul Carter, Managing Director, Expocentric Ltd
Stephen Catlin, Chief Executive, Catlin Underwriting Agencies Limited
Lord Chadlington, Group Chief Executive, Huntsworth Plc
Robin Clark, Chairman Taylor Clark Plc
Sir Michael Cobham, President, Cobham Aerospace
Tim Congdon, Founder, Lombard Street Research
Anthony Coombs, Group Managing Director, S&U Plc
Sir Tom Cowie, Life Presid
Sir Tom Cowie, Life President, Arriva plc
Alistair Craig, CPS Research Fellow
Sir Michael Craig-Cooper, Former Director, National Bank of Kuwait
Sir John Craven, Chairman, Lonmin Plc
Damon de Laszlo, Chairman, Economic Research Council
John Dembitz, Chairman, Dembitz & Associates
Lord Derwent, Deputy Chairman, Hutchison Whampoa (Europe) Ltd
Robert Diamond, Chief Executive, Diametric Ltd
Matthew Elliott, Chief Executive, The TaxPayers' Alliance
Dr Walter Eltis, Emeritus Fellow, Exeter College
Patrick Evershed, Chairman, New Star Fund Managers
Nicholas Finney, Chairman, Waterfront Partnership
Howard Flight, Director, Investec Asset Management Ltd
Constantine Folkes, Chairman and Chief Executive, Folkes Holdings Ltd
Sir Rocco Forte, Chairman, Rocco Forte Hotels
Christopher Foyle, Chairman, Air Foyle Ltd
Gerald Frost, Editor, eurofacts
Anthony Fuller, Chairman, Fuller Smith and Turner Plc
Edmund Gartside, Chairman, Shiloh Plc
Anthony Good, Chairman, Cox & Kings
Kit Hunter Gordon, Managing Director, The Summit Group Ltd
Sir Brian Goswell, Chairman, ISS Group Plc
Peter Grant, Non Executive Director, Cadogan Estates Ltd
Sir Ronald Grierson, Former Vice Chairman, GEG
W T J Griffin, Former Chairman, GT Management Plc
G Grimstone, Chairman, Grimstone Foundation
George Guise, Prime Minister's Policy Unit, 1986-90
Sir Ronald Halstead, President, Engineering Industries Assocation
Rupert Hambro, Chairman, J O Hambro Ltd
Don Hanson, Chairman, Eiger Capital Ltd
Peter K Hargreaves, CEO, Hargreaves Lansdown Plc
William Hargreaves, Joint Managing Director, Sisis Equipment
David Harvey, Chairman, Small Business Council, Centre for Policy Studies
Michael Heller, Chairman, London & Associated Properties Plc
John Hickman, Chairman, Kingston Estates Ltd
Simon Hill, Chief Executive, Letterstone plc
Jonathan Hodge, Managing Director, Carlyle Trust
Keith Hodgkinson, Chief Executive, Chloride
Lord Hodgson of Astley Abbotts, Chairman, Nova Capital Management
Tim Ingram, Chief Executive, Caledonia Investments
Kim Jaberi, Chairman and Managing Director, Karins Group of Companies
Margot James, European President, Ogilvy Healthworld UK Ltd
William S James, LCF Rothschild Securities Ltd
Lord Kalms, President, DSG International plc
Gerald Kaye, Development Director, Helical Bar Plc
Chris Kelly, Chairman, Keltruck Ltd
Mike Killingley, Chairman, Beale plc
Jill Kirby, Chair, Full Time Mothers
Peter Knight, Chairman, Phoenix plc
Andrew Langley, Managing Director, Juniper Products Ltd
Ruth Lea, Director, Centre for Policy Studies
Professor Graeme Leach, Chief Economist, Institute of Directors
John W Leavesley, Director, The Leavesley Group
Dan Lewis, Director of Environmental Affairs, Stockholm Network
Peter Linacre, Chairman, Massive Ltd
John Littlewood, Former Group Director, S G Warburg
Dr Gerard Lyons, City Economist
Stuart Lyons, Chairman, The Wensum Company Plc
Michael Mander, Former Chairman, Institute of Directors
Nic
Michael Mander, Former Chairman, Institute of Directors
Nick Markham, Chief Operating Officer, Top Up TV Ltd
Dr John Marks, Director, Educational Research Trust
Keith Marsden, Author of Gordon Brown's Boasts (CPS, 2004)
Malcolm H.D. McAlpine, Director, Sir Robert McAlpine Ltd
Martin McElwee, Head of Research, Bow Group
Keith C. Miles OBE FCA
Michael Miller, Managing Director, Harris & Sheldon Group Ltd
Edgar Miller, Managing Director, Palladian Ltd
Ian Milne, Director, Global Britain
Professor Patrick Minford, Professor of Economics, Cardiff Business School
Professor Kenneth Minogue, Emeritus Professor of Political Science, LSE
Gary Mond, Managing Director, Redcliffe Training Associates Ltd
Mrs Victoria Mitchell, Consultant Director, Savills Plc
Sir Nigel Mobbs, Chairman, Slough Estates Plc
Peter Morgan, Former Director-General, Institute of Directors
Professor David Myddelton, Cranfield School of Management
David Newlands, Chairman, Tomkins Plc
Eric Nichols
Mark Nicholson, Associate Director, Fitch Ratings
Anthony de Normann, Managing Director, Aldenham Ltd
Sean O’Brien, Chairman, Telstar Music Group Ltd
David Ord, Managing Director, The Bristol Port Company Ltd
Sara Pearson, Chief Executive, The SPA Way Ltd
Lord Pearson of Rannoch, Chairman , PWS Holdings Ltd
Brian Pettifer, Chairman and Chief Executive, Pettifer Group Ltd
Gary Ramsey, Director, Jefferson Engineering Ltd
Andrew Roberts, Historian
Saul Haydon Rowe, Principal, Devon Capital LLP
Lord Salisbury
Roger Scruton, Philosopher
Malcolm Scott, Chairman , Dunalastair Estates
Nick Seaton, Chairman, Campaign for Real Education
Christopher Shale, Chief Executive, Oxford Resources
David Shaw, Chairman, Sabrelance Corporate Partners Ltd
Giles Shepard, Chairman, Searcy Tansley & Co. Ltd
Peter Shirley, Managing Director, Midland Chilled Foods Ltd
Sir Benjamin Slade, Chairman, Shilstar Holdings
David Soskin, Chief Executive Officer, cheapflights.co.uk
James Sproule, Head of Research, Augusta & Co. plc
Gabriel Stein, Director , Lombard Street Research
Dr Elaine Sternberg, University of Leeds
Allen Sykes, Former MD, Consolidated Gold Fields
A.R. Tanner, Chairman, Tanners Wines Ltd
John Taylor, Chairman Taylors Bulbs
Hugh Trevor-Jones, Chairman, Lowe & Fletcher Ltd
Ashley Unitt, Chief Technical Officer , NewVoiceMedia Ltd
Lord Vinson, Director, Fleming High Income Growth Trust plc
G H C Wakefield, Former Chairman of J & H Marsh & McLennan
Michael Webster, Director, Gorkana Ltd
Paul Weeks, Managing Director, Wicken Fen Foods
Sir Mark Weinberg, President, St James Place Capital Plc
Stuart Wheeler, Chairman, IG Group Plc
Robert Wickham, Senior Partner, Ibbett, Moseley Group
John Wilford, Managing Director, Rave Communications Ltd
Laurence Wilshere, Managing Director, Quansboro Plastics Ltd
Eben Wilson, Managing Director, Main Communications Ltd
Chris Woodhead, Former HM Chief Inspector of Schools
Sir Oliver Wright, Former Ambassador in Washington
AND NOW TO THE REAL MEAT ON THE BONE
Chris Woodhead, Former HM Chief Inspector of Schools
Sir Oliver Wright, Former Ambassador in Washington
*************************
Poor lambs. My heart bleeds for them all. Strangely, I don't see too many nurses, teachers, police officers and firefighters on the TPA list of supporters. Odd that. Or is it typo. Did the TPA mean their list of "wealthy supporters"
Wat, you can put this right. You can make a start to the new TPA up front, honest, non hypocritical campaign against high salaries.
Wat, will you make that start by telling the readers of Burning our Money what YOUR total annual salary, including bonuses and benefits in kind, was each year for the five years before you retired, and also tell us the size of your pension pot?
I am sure you will not.
I am sure no one in the TPA will.
And you may say that it is a private matter, not paid for by the taxpayer. Which is true. But it WAS all paid for by the PENSION funds to which we all contribute.
Do we not have a right to know how the city milks these funds for their own personal gain?
John
Dr John,
You don't realise. These fantastically clever, hard-working and (deservedly) richly rewarded chaps are selflessly campaigning on behalf of ordinary people, victims of the new socialism pioneered by New Labour - main policy, squeezing the the (relatively) poor until the pips squeak - and redistributing money to the rich.
Did I understand correctly?
Crippen is accusing others of hypocrisy?
Next he'll be accusing other people of self-importance and pomposity.
If anyone disagrees, they'll then be called 'rabid'.
Funniest thing I've heard in ages.
Each NHS GP now extorts at least 120,000 pounds of their fellow citizens. this is for doing a relatively unskilled job akin to a computer first line support person. Anything requiring any knowledge is quickly buck-passed up to a specialist.
It would be nice to be able to opt-out of the UKs treatment rationing scheme and I hope that the TPA can continue its fight against the immorality of taxing people.
The problem with the TPA campaign, in this case, as in so many others, is that by looking for the headline, they miss the point. We should be paying these people more, not less. No Chief Executive in the private sector would manage a multi-million pound company for the chicken feed which council chief executives receive, just as no private sector CX would enjoy the unsackable accountability of the public sector. We will never get the best managers from the private sector into the public sector whilst this bean-counting crap is still bandied around. And whilst that happens we will never have the public sector management we need to deliver real efficiencies and consequently, real tax cuts. But, this doesn't make as good a headline, and doesn't attract the membership and the sponsors the TPA is aiming for...
The problem is that local councils are fundamentally flawed and trying to run them properly must be a nightmare. Even if Chief Executives are worth a lot of money, I doubt that their pay is performance related from the point of view of the taxpayer!
http://lettersfromatory.wordpress.com
Prentiz: "The problem with the TPA campaign, [snip] .. they miss the point. We should be paying these people more, not less."
No actually, the point is government is too big. Yes have a few high paid CEs, but the important term here is 'few'.
Crippen: !scream!
It is worth remembering that *anyone* who is on the public payroll pays no tax other than assorted sales taxes. Tax decuctions on a public employees pay check is simply an accounting entry. They are never given the gross sum of their pay, and the tax is never deducted.
So we are entitled to ask, if the job an individual does could be done to the same standard or better from within the private sector? Could for example, a doctor provide medical care for his patients in the private sector, well yes. Could he do it cheaper? Very likely yes, too. Could he form a practice with like minded individuals and provide a service equal or better than already provided in the public sector, the answer also is - Yes.
Harry Platt CEO of Workspace Group PLC a FTSE 250 company was CE of Harlow and deputy CE of Greenwich I think.
Dr Dave
Thank you for that.
Elsewhere someone suggested Rod Aldridge of Capita. But he was never an actual Town Hall chief, and also IIRC he had to resign from Capita amid those unfortunate allegations re Labour Party leans and public sector contracts. http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/new...21&
in_page_id=2
Doc
I've blogged separately on most of your points.
One I missed was the brightness coefficient down on Canary Wharf.
You say that I "
suggest that all the people working there are “fearsomely bright”. That is bollocks, and you know it."
Bollocks indeed- which is why I never said it.
What I say is that the twenty-something investment bankers who routinely get paid six figure salaries on the Wharf are fearsomely bright and hard working.
And I also imply they work much harder than any of Livingstone's staff.
I surprised you disagree.
One morning on your way back from an out-of-hours call, say at 2am, you might like to detour via the Wharf and the testicle. Compare and contrast the numbers working at each location.
As for ability, I wonder if say Lee Jasper ever thought of taking his awesome talents down river?
LOL
Prentiz
"The problem with the TPA campaign .. they miss the point. We should be paying these people more, not less."
I understand what you're saying, but as APL replies, government is just too damned big. We need a serious downsizing and a stripping away of responsibilities. And then, yes, maybe we could have a serious discussion about better pay for public sector bosses.
And remember too there are head and heart issues involved here.
While you may think the TPA is "missing the point", in terms of hearts and minds it's winning hands down. No other right of centre pressure group has ever commanded as much media attention in this country. Without getting beyond ourselves, in terms of public opinion, the right is at last getting its act together. (see Right Nation for how it was done in the US).
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