If swine flu is anything like the "Spanish flu" which killed 19million in 1919, then it will kill preferentially the young and fit. Apparently your own immune system over-reacts and drowns your lungs. So the immuno-compromised might actually be at lower risk.
On the other hand, the infectiousness will be determined by the social life of those who can harbour the virus without symptoms.
There was a programme to dig up the bodies of some people who died in 1919 and were buried in the permafrost to see whether modern flu viruses could be typed (get their genealogy). So far as I know, the programme was shut down, probably for lack of funds.
Now we're paying billions for a pig in a poke.
Gordon and his lot would be quite pleased to see the end of you. (Paid-up member of the Awkward Squad, drawing a Civil Service pension etc.)
Mind your back. Hot toddy almost certainly does more good than jabs, and has other benefits. Bottoms up!
Why is this H1N1 virus not just one of those covered in the normal flu vaccine for this year?
That would surely save a whole load of money in packaging and treatment, and increase coverage for all flu types if a greater proportion of the population is to be immunised.
Best regards
As our leaders don't base policy on evidence, I'd rather trust these chaps.
http://trusttheevidence.net/carl...s-for-swine-
flu
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With this government I would want to know who has links with any company that will be making money from the vacine before deciding.
Be selfish and rely on others to get it. And take lots of Vitamin C if you have any inkling of a sneeze or sore throat.
1. The flu virus mutates; regularly
2. Seasonal flu vaccine is a cocktail of vaccines for historical mutations ie last year's flu
3. Therefore, seasonal flu vaccine is, in itself, a calculated gamble
It's a gamble I pass on, relying on my own good health and general immunity. Eat well, stay fit and keep away from ill people. I'll be passing on H1N1 if offered as well.
I deal with the very occasional cold with copious application of Southern Comfort or Calvados -- alcohol is antiseptic after all!
Wat,
Think yourself lucky that they rang you up - although it will only have been because they are paid to do so to meet some target.
Last Monday, we received the first telephone call (or indeed any other communication from them, rather than to them) we have ever received from our GP surgery. My wife had contacted them about my daughter (following an advice letter from her school) having the HPV jab, and had made an appointment. The call (at 5pm) said that she shouldn't bother coming for the jab first thing the next morning (as per the appointment made two weeks earlier) because they didn't actually have any vaccine. "So when will you have some?" I asked. "We'll know at the end of the week", she said. "OK, so you'll call us again when you know?", I asked. "No, you need to call us at the end of the week and we hope we'll be able to tell you then".
This is the kind of incompetence and lack of service I have to pay them for with my taxes. Given a choice, I'd go elsewhere - but, of course, they already have my money.
I have, for many years, held the belief that the government is putting something in the water! How else can we as a nation put up with the crap dished out by Nu Labour? Is it possible that the only right thinking people left are those of us with private water supplies, and/or low level water (high alcohol) consumers?
Could this need to vaccinate the population not be about Swine Flu, but just an excuse to drug the nation in preparation for the up and coming General Election?
The German Government chose a different vaccine from that being given to the general populace, which seems an interesting control group experiment.
The Civil Servants and Governing Class known as Nomenklatura are having a product from Baxter, the Proletariat are not.
I got clobbered by the flu. Running nose, tired, ached a bit. Took a day off work, sat in the armchair and read a book with lots of tissues. Back to work the next day.
I wouldn't risk it.
Flu jabs usually do more harm than good, though this one is so specific (it's been produced specially for this very strain) that it might be relatively harmless. I would worry about that "acceptable safety profile", though; what unpleasant stats are lurking behind that sinister phrase?
Nigel - it wasn't produced along with the regular stuff because the strain hadn't been cultured sufficiently in time. This vaccine is pretty much an emergency rush-out job. Whether there really is an emergency remains to be seen; my money's on "No - this is just another HL Mencken hobgoblin".
Have a read of Henry North London's blog; ignore the warnings and dose yourself liberally with Vitamin D (particularly D3) and B12 supplements; they are dangerous and untested and it should be patently obvious from all the waivers the manufacturers are asking to be signed that there is something a bit Pete Tong about it.
BTW did you get my email?
Agent Orange? Many toothpastes have stuff in them that was the same. They mess up antibiotics amongst other things. Also, "air fresheners". Have a nice day.
The problem is, where do I get genuine independent advice?
NHS circulars are urging doctors to get the maximum uptake, and no doubt they will either be offered financial inducements or threatened to ensure they do so. So who do I trust?
The cynic in me suggests that the Government has bought all this vaccine and needs to use it. If there is no epidemic, it will all go down to their brilliant planning; if there is one, it was all our faults for not having been vaccinated.
I'm adopting the principle that all my parents, and their siblings, along with my grandparents all survived the 1918 epidemic and lived to good ages, and I don't see why I shouldn't do the same.
Tyler might be interested that in Walgreens pharmacy in any Main Street USA he could be administered a shot of the ordinary flu jab for $25. That is even if he is not an NHS approved high risk. And the US school kids are getting the swine flu jab- because they are the vector even if not high risk by NHS speak.
As Tyler points out the NHS treats 'society' rather thanythe 'Patient'. Personally I would rather be trated as a patient than a slice of society!
Thanks to james h for telling us how it kills.
My letter demanding that I go and get the seasonal flu jab was sent from the Communicable Disease Gauleiter (sorry: Consultant) of my town. It reads as if he wanted to finish me off. The receptionist at the Health Centre thinks its hilarious, particularly as she had to take only my surname and then consult the database in order to give me the date and time for joining the extermination queue (its a production line job now). This message comes to you from beyond the grave...
H1N1 is todays Y2K pushed by the same hysterical mob wanting more government money, the "one death is to much" crowd. Fact is, it is turning out to be less lethal than regular seasonal flu but governments panicked spent an awful lot of your money and don't want vaccine going bad and being thrown in the garbage, hence your health authorities newly found concern.
Good news for the old curmudgeon, you probably have natural immunity. Of course being immuno-suppressed that low probability weighs heavier than most.
Since flu is contracted by touching infected surfaces or breathing infected aerosols it is a good time to avoid people, which should not be hard for a curmudgeon. Maybe its a good time to jump in the car (aircraft with their filthy recirculated air are not to be used) and set off for Cyprus for some serious economic studies, the increased natural vitamin D absorption will help, copious amounts of good wine will relax and minimal contact with coughing and hacking Londoners in the fever houses known as the tube will be beneficial.
If Cyprus is not feasible, stay home gargle with a saline solution a couple of times a day, take some Vitamin D, eat fresh fruits and vegetables, have a snort of your favourite spirit before bed, file your work by computer from home. Eventually you will need to leave home, again avoid crowds and enclosed spaces as far as feasible or time your access for opening time when crowds are small and the building has been (hopefully) flushed clean overnight with fresher air. For Gods sake wear disposable gloves (you may even consider a disposable medical mask depending on your tolerance for others staring at you), and whatever you do, do not use public washrooms or public transportation. When arriving home be sure to dispose of gloves and mask in the garbage outside your home. You will be fine.
Good health.
Thank you to those responding above to my question on why not put the swine flu vaccination into the seasonal vaccination (Kafka 11.10.09 0855 and Andrew Duffin 11.10.09 1249). However, none of what they wrote is news to me; it therefore goes nowhere (or rather nowhere near far enough) in answering my question.
The seasonal jab is a mix of vaccines for different flu viruses: indeed it is, which is why I reckon adding another one would be no difficult job.
The timescales are the main issue, as Andrew points out and (as I understand it) this is almost entirely down to the time taken to culture a sufficiency of the various viruses for such large-scale vaccination, rather than other aspects of production including such safety checks as are appropriate for just differences between the viral strains.
This paper, dated 30th April: Outbreak of Swine-Origin Influenza A (H1N1) Virus Infection - Mexico, March-April 2009 gives an interesting summary of what information became available between March and April. From this information, I find it not credible that this particular flu variant should not be in the frame for potentially adding it to seasonal flu vaccinations.
On the other hand, the World Health Organisation (WHO) normally makes its decision on the northern hemisphere seasonal flu mix in February, and has a policy of a 3-variant mix.
Now, I'm not an expert in flu vaccinations, though I do see that culturing a sufficiency of each virus in a short timescale is difficult. However, I do question February as a good time for the final decision. In particular, it excludes any flu infection statistics from the southern hemisphere winter season, which I would have though would be of significant value for viruses with such high mutation rates.
Concerning culturing a sufficiency of each strain of virus, I assume this is done by culturing over several generations with exponential growth of the total amount of culture. Therefore, starting early with many more variants than will appear in the final vaccine would be both timely and very possibly cost effective, in terms of producing a better vaccination mix. Those strains found (later) to be less prevalent could be dropped from the more expensive very large scale production end-stages of virus culture. I assume that this does happen currently, to some extent. However, more information would be useful, if anyone has it.
Of course, there are difficult questions in determining whether early-stage culturing of even more viral strains than currently is worthwhile. I suspect that the most difficult one is whether there would be improved flu suppression by vaccination, through use of a different mix of cultures than decided in February.
Returning to whether the swine flu vaccine should be delivered (partly, largely or totally) within the seasonal vaccine, the fact that we have a (claimed) sufficiency of swine flu vaccine for use this w
[Note: this is the continuation of my above comment after having hit the 3,000 character limit. I'll clearly have to introduce a policy of improved brevity, for the future.]
Returning to whether the swine flu vaccine should be delivered (partly, largely or totally) within the seasonal vaccine, the fact that we have a (claimed) sufficiency of swine flu vaccine for use this winter season (in the northern hemisphere) indicates that there was sufficient time to culture it, and starting noticeably later than February, and presumably without impacting on production of the already agreed seasonal vaccination mix. Surely adding another virus to the existing seasonal mix is not something that takes significantly more time than mixing the original three strains (though I do accept it is not zero time).
We then come to the question of safety testing of the swine flu vaccine, either as stand-alone or as a mixture. In both cases, I cannot see why this takes longer than with any other strain or mix of strains, as used on a regular annual basis for many years. In any case, such tests can be made in parallel with the ramping up of culturing of different strains, using a small proportion of each culture from the early stages. Anyway, the testing has actually been done for the swine flu vaccination. Does anyone have any real evidence that testing was inadequate because of the reduced timescale?
Finally, I can see that there is little real advantage to pharmaceutical companies who are only paid for final-design vaccine actually delivered. The level of effectiveness, or lack thereof, of that vaccine mix is not down to them. Therefore, we need (through the WHO and national governments) to know what governmental investment there is in early-stage culturing (eg by contracting to pharmaceutical companies) and how the overall benefit and cost of this is judged.
Best regards
but on the other hand vaccines clearly do work.... seen much smallpox recently?
http://www.spiegel.de/
internatio...,656028,00.html
German politicians to get different vaccine to the lumpen proles
Nigel, well if you knew all that why did you ask? 
More seriously, I note your comment that the World Health Organisation makes various decisions based on various things...
So we can put it all down to a central-planning cockup, I guess!
Andrew Duffin asks: Nigel, well if you knew all that why did you ask?
I think my mistake was different; it was assuming responders would also know all that. After all, I just looked it up in Wikipedia, having started with no more than a suspicious mind.
More seriously, I asked because I was (and still am) concerned that government may have spent money unnecessarily, where relatively simple foresight was all that was necessary to avoid it. I also asked because I wanted to know the answer. And I asked to give a chance to all of WHO, UK government and the pharmaceutical industry, to show that they do have their eye on the ball, are as knowledgeable as anyone on the issues, especially including cost-benefit analysis, and that all or most of the things I mentioned had been properly taken into account, or dismissed rationally as not material.
Best regards
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