Before anyone can ask: Explain the metal hand.
kid chris | 05.13.08 - 3:21 am | #

Luthor had taken to wearing a ring set with a chunk of kryptonite, to keep Superman away. Kryptonite, being radioactive, gave him the hand cancer.

For a super-genius, Luthor ain't too bright.
Jack Fear | Email | Homepage | 05.13.08 - 4:05 am | #

I could give you a short one sentence answer, but we're comic nerds here...

One of the revamps done with Byrne's Man of Steel was that there was only one chunk of kryptonite on Earth and it got here by being stuck to Kal-El's rocket. In the first issue of the relaunched series a scientist located the rocket (which was still buried in a wheat field) and used it to figure out Superman's physiology as well as what kryptonite was. He figured that Superman was the vanguard of an alien invasion and so created a cybernetic body powered by the rock and put an auto accident victim's brain it it creating the post-Crisis Metallo.

Still with me? Okay.

So Metallo like all evil brains in robot bodies immediately kills his creator and then goes to rob a bank. Superman shows up and they fight with Superman finding out about kryptonite then. Just when it looks like Metallo may kill Superman he's snatched away by a mysterious group.

They turn out to be Lexcorp and when Luthor finds out what Metallo is powered by and what effect it has on Superman he personally rips out his heart. He has some bullets made from the chunk which turn up a few issues later and a ring which he wears constantly just to annoy Superman.

So a few years later he finds out that wearing a chunk of radioactive mineral on your hand for years is a bad idea. Unlike pre-Crisis kryptonite which only affected Kryptonians post-Crisis its harmful to humans. It just takes longer.

So to stall the effects his hand is removed and he gets a cybernetic one. The cancer has spread, however, and Luthor eventually dies.

So anyway, getting to what I wanted to post, you left off the Subs/Inferior 5 team up. I team up so obvious I'm shocked it hasn't happened before.
Just Some Guy | Homepage | 05.13.08 - 4:10 am | #

In one of the final fully-mixed-together DC/ proto-Vertigo stories, Gaiman's Black Orchid miniseries, Swampy got a bit of indirect revenge, because he helped the new Orchid along her quest which ended in considerable frustration for Luthor.

I look at that mini, along with (the also Gaiman-written) Books of Magic, as a serious path-not-taken for what things could have been like between the DCU line and Vertigo.

The way the split's been handled has always been crazy. The 1990s Spectre, Demon, and Hitman were much more kids-inappropriate than, say, any of the Tim Hunter series. For that matter, all three of those books drew on Vertigo continuity and events. But heaven forbid that Swamp Thing actually show up in one of them.

I'd thought that this was all in the past; Doom Patrol made it back to the DCU with their Vertigo memories as one set of their memories, and the kiddies didn't explode. Wesley Dodds, Kid Eternity, and Scarab showed up in early JSA-- Wes with his Vertigo history intact. Animal Man's back. The Phantom Stranger continues to go back and forth (Shadowpact, but also the new Madame Xanadu Vertigo book.)

Especially since Vertigo isn't using its corner of the shared continuity except to publish Hellblazer, maybe they should share characters like Swamp Thing and Tim Hunter...
Jacob T. Levy | Email | Homepage | 05.13.08 - 4:53 am | #

Jim Konstanty was the 1950 NL MVP, when he helped the Phillies win their first pennant in 35 years. Just so you know.
Greg Burgas | Email | Homepage | 05.13.08 - 6:57 am | #

Also: that first pic of Luthor looks kind of like Bill Murray in CADDYSHACK.
Jack Fear | Email | Homepage | 05.13.08 - 7:15 am | #

As cool as it would be, I have to say JMS' initial laundry list sounded more like a wish-list than an actual plan - I wouldn't be surprised if the Vertigo x-overs never happen, unfortunately.

And FYA, I'm still waiting, almost 15 years later, for the announced Vertigo Visions Psycho Pirate special.
Tim O'Neil | Email | Homepage | 05.13.08 - 7:20 am | #

I know I started the Free John/Alec/Buddy campaign, and I should be happy, but... not like this...
Chris Sims | Email | Homepage | 05.13.08 - 7:36 am | #

I actually thought of you when I read that con report...such is the power of your devotion to Swamp Thi-- er, Swampy.

What seems odd about the (relatively) recent-ish fence between Vertigo and DC is how meaningless it is. Okay, so Superman can't appear in, I don't know, Scalped or Un-Men or whatever, and Swamp Thing can't join the Justice League, but most of the DC/Vertigo crossovers are preserved in Vertigo trades which (I'm assuming) are going to be a lot better read than any future Vertigo series (or even DCU superhero stuff?)

Like, you can see Booster Gold and Blue Beetle in Morrison's Doom Patrol or Mister Miracle and Martian Manhunter in Sandman and the Justice League and Batman in Swamp Thing, and those books are in a constant state of being republished and read, right?
caleb | Email | Homepage | 05.13.08 - 8:08 am | #

That initial crazymad look of Luthor is forever etched in my brain. And as I recall this was the first appearance of the new business man post-Crisis Luthor, even before Man of Steel. This Luthor debut may have been related to the negotiations around that time for Alan Moore to write one of the Superman books after Supes's reboot, but the plans fell through, dammit. We've seen what Moore can do with Superman and it would have been fantastic.
joecab | Email | 05.13.08 - 8:49 am | #

Loved how Luthor nearly destroyed Swampy in just a few panels. "You do this, this and this. Mail me my check."
awb | Email | 05.13.08 - 9:17 am | #

For the sake of any crazy Swamp Thing completists out there, I snuck him into the background of Warriors Bar in Chaykin's Guy Gardner miniseries. Second issue, first page.
I didn't realize he was off-limits. Woops!
Jed Dougherty | Email | 05.13.08 - 10:26 am | #

You know, since there isn't kids reading comics anymore, they should just trust the adults to be able to separate Vertigo from DC in their minds and let any of the two companies publish comics with Swamp Thing or Constantine... Constantine is probably even a better character in the DC universe than Vertigo, since he gets to stump people a lot more powerful than him.

As long as they don't publish Lil' Constantine for the few kids that still exist on the audience all will be well.
Julio Dvulture | Email | 05.13.08 - 10:39 am | #

I would buy Lil' Constantine. Especially if he crossed over with Lil' Archie.
Mike Nielsen | Email | 05.13.08 - 1:48 pm | #

I thought I remembered this taking place just before Byrne revamped Superman, and that Lex was still a evil genius scientist. Was evil businessman Lex that handy around the lab?
Dan Kelly | Email | Homepage | 05.13.08 - 2:01 pm | #

Was evil businessman Lex that handy around the lab?

Yep, and he now had the financial resources of LexCorp behind him.
CW | 05.13.08 - 2:05 pm | #

Missing that Legion content. Cuz you know there's no better place for old Legion news than Progressive Ruin/Swamp Things R Us. (Loved the Warrior Swamp Thing appearance though!)



Lil' Constantine... heh heh heh...
super-rob | Email | 05.13.08 - 5:51 pm | #

Even though I'm a rabid Swamp Thing fan, the truth is, I would not be happy about a team-up between Swamp Thing and a superhero or super villain. Yes, his previous encounters with Lex Luthor worked surprisingly well, but that's because Alan Moore wrote them, and his Swamp Thing work is divinely inspired. In anyone else's hands, I just don't want to see it. As for Constantine...no, despite his DC origins, I really don't want to see him teaming up with the Spandex crowd. Yes, Vertigo and DC are clearly the same universe even now, despite what arbitrary rules may be created, but for me, the inclusion of superheroes or supervillains in either Hellblazer or Swamp Thing rarely works.
Rich Handley | Email | Homepage | 05.13.08 - 6:43 pm | #

Tim O'N. - I figured that's what JMS was doing...just throwing out some ideas, some more likely than others.

Jed - Dude, you are so fired.

Mr. Dan Kelly - As Joecab says above, this was either just as (or just before) the '80s Superman revamp was happening, so that's sort of a transitional Lex.
Mikester | Homepage | 05.13.08 - 11:26 pm | #

I've always maintained that the late 80s Luthor is the most interesting Luthor - not that it was by any means an original idea, but certainly better than the rather aimless Silver Age version. (And as much as anyone may love the Silver Age Superman, you have to admit he had accrued some serious wacky baggage by the time Crisis came along.)

But the idea of a New Luthor, as we saw in Byrne's revamp, was great:. It took the best traits of Luthor throughout the previous 50 years - ruthless, evil, but with a recognizable strain of nobility that was permanently twisted by resentment and jealousy - and cut away the baggage of all the Smallville continuity and confusing motivations. But in the years since, the character has essentially devolved into a carbon copy of his pre-Crisis self, only without the hint of dignity and pathos he got in the Bronze Age, in exchange for garden-variety psychopathy. The worst of all possible worlds.
Tim O'Neil | Email | Homepage | 05.14.08 - 12:18 am | #

I'd be happy about this team-up, but, well...is there any chance that a Lex Luthor/Swamp Thing team-up could be written by someone other than JMS?
Chad | Email | 05.14.08 - 9:52 am | #

"That initial crazymad look of Luthor is forever etched in my brain. And as I recall this was the first appearance of the new business man post-Crisis Luthor, even before Man of Steel."

Same here. And, yep, it was the first hint of what was to come for Luthor. The portrayal is cleverly ambiguous; it could be either version of Luthor.
Scipio | Email | Homepage | 05.14.08 - 12:04 pm | #

Chalk it up to ignorance on my part, but what's to stop DC from using Swamp Thing or Constantine whenever they please?

I was under the impression Wildstorm and Vertigo were, at best, subsidiaries of DC, Vertigo being a place where creators could do their own thing, and Wildstorm being...Wildstorm.
Stanley | Email | 05.14.08 - 12:07 pm | #

DC Comics Presents #85 Swampy/Supes is a favorite of mine. I always hoped it would lead to more crossovers. The Vertigo style perspective of mainstream superheroes always fascinated me.
If it was done right.
Lauren | Email | 05.14.08 - 10:14 pm | #

> Chalk it up to ignorance on my part, but what's to stop DC from using Swamp Thing or Constantine whenever they please?

Their minds - their stupid, stupid minds.

(In other words, it's a self-determined editorial policy)
Juisarian | Email | 05.15.08 - 7:32 am | #

That story about Swamp Thing trying to kill Luthor, and Superman trying to stop him, is perhaps the stupidest Swamp Thing story ever told. And that includes the pre-Moore clunkers.

Do you doubt me? In this story, Superman beats Swamp Thing by digging a big hole - I kid you not.
HammerHeart | 05.15.08 - 10:30 am | #

It's interesting that it took Alan Moore no time at all to make the 'businessman Luthor' actually work, whereas it too Byrne and his successors decades to do it right.

By 'right', I mean having him be the scientific and technical genius inventor that is essential to the nature of Luthor-ness as well as great big wads of cash and social untouchability, not just the latter at the expense of the former. Bryne's Kingpin-on-Atkins Lex couldn't invent his way out of a paper bag, and had to hire other scientists to build his anti-superman devices, which was just about as wrong as wrong could be. Lex didn't get back to the classic genius model until after Presidency story finished, really. And by then most of the businessman aspects were gone...
Jeff R. | Email | 05.15.08 - 3:10 pm | #