Katrina is such an incredibly huge disaster, affecting so many people. The longer I live, the more it is evident to me that life is but a vapor. As Christians, we really need to live each day fully, with purpose and as if it might be our last.
The looting is discouraging, but I guess some of that was inevitable. But I think Americans will really shine through all of this and come up better. I just hope the media doesn't play up every bad story, and at least attempts to be balanced in its portrayal of events as they unfold.
People Get Ready
by Curtis Mayfield
People get ready
There's a train a comin'
You don't need no baggage you just get on board
All you need is faith
To hear the diesel comin'
Don't need no ticket you just thank the Lord
People get ready
Train to Jordan
Picking up passengers from coast to coast
Faith is key
Open the doors and board them
There's hope for all among the love the most
There ain't no room for the hopeless sinner
Who would hurt all mankind just to save his own soul
Have pity on those whose choices grow thinner
There ain't no hiding place from the Kingdom's throne
le
Amen, Michael and le.
I saw the horrific pictures and interviews for the first time on TV today. I could barely choke back the tears.
First I was shocked, then I got mad! Why can't we helicopter those people out of there!! Hundreds sitting on a highway with nowhere to go, nothing to eat or drink, no shade in the hot weather!!
I just want to take all the food I have in my house and give it to them!
Simmer down Kathy. It's a logistical nightmare, thousands of desparate people, dangerous conditions, equipment not on hand with much of it coming from other areas and states. We all watch with horror and heartfelt compassion, and some anger at the criminals taking advantage of a lawless situation.
I am reminded of Bernard DeVoto's book 1846: Year Of Decision, part of which details the tragic circumstances surrounding the Donner party, stranded in the Sierra Nevada over a winter. One of the party, a man named William Eddy, made it over the summit after three failed tries hoping to guide rescue teams back to the stranded wagon train. He was so emaciated and sick that he was made to stay in bed several days regaining some semblance of health. After a few days he left, went back up the mountain, and helped rescue the remaining survivors.
One of those survivors was a man with the surname Keseberg. Unlike Eddy, Keseberg hadn't the ability nor the stomach for an attempt at the mountain so he stayed. Starving, as were they all, he resorted to cannibalism and probably killing at least one, possibly two, of the others for food.
DeVoto makes this observation; "[his acts were] testimony of the degeneration of the human personality under stresses that had hardened others into nobility".
I meant to add at the end: Let's hope that we have the courage, strength, and faith to be Eddys.
Correction Michael: I believe it was Jerry Falwell, not Pat Robertson, who suggested that 9/11 was God's judgment on a sinful America.
An interesting site that summarizes charity organizations is here:
http://www.charitywatch.org/
It was both Allan. The two had a live conversation from what I remember.
Amen Mike,
I had a conversation with my pastor about this topic just last night. It is sad that some within the Christian Community see this (or any other) disaster as a judgement by God. They (we?) clothe ourselves with the idea that taking this attitude is in keeping with the great Puritain traditions and practices of our past.
While this may indeed be a judgement from God, it should also be remembered that when calamity struck the Puritains, the attitude was not "Who within our community has sinned and brought about this disaster?", but rather it was a corporate, "WE have sinned!".
Regardless if the events of 9/11 or last week are either judgements or Divine Providence, the intent of God is still the same...to draw all people to Him and to offer His people an opportunity to display His grace, power and love.
jl
Hurricane Katrina is God's punishment to the south for re-electing Bush, the anti-christ.
1) Show me anywhere in the Bible where Jesus advocates WAR or violence as an means of resolving anything. "Turn the other cheek."
2) Show me in the Bible where Jesus blesses the wealthy
"Blessed are the meek and the poor, for they shall inherit the earth."
3) Mr. Bush does not show any Christian values or qualities whatsoever. He may pay lipservice to God, but that is all he does. He has lied and deceived the American public and the United Nations. He has put his lust for wealth and power over the welfare of his own people, and in doing so, has caused acts of violence and hatred to be propagated against the God-fearing American people by his pals, the Muslim extremists. Remember, it was his father who armed the mujahadeen, which were the fore-runners of Al Qaida.
Mr. Bush is nothing more or less than an anti-christ and he is leading millions of Americans on the path to hell.
Instead of trying to figure out whose fault it was, why don't we
1) give what we can
2) if so inclined, pray
?
Thanks for the link, John D.
I Finally get to agree with Lu! Done and done.
At my work we will be working overtime;I suggested to a co-worker that with our bit of extra income, we could afford to donate to the relief effort. Her response:"Hey! I have rent to pay!"
For the selfish, $10.00 is too much to give, for the unselfish, all that they can afford is too little. Break open your "Piggy Banks", folks. Many are helping-my first choice was the Salvation Army. Please help however you can.
Now I've heard that besides looting and other criminality, idiots are shooting at rescue helicopters. Pray for the police and other people there to bring order and assistance.
le
Couldn't agree more...
Take care,
Allen- I think of that story everytime I drive over Donnor Summit. (I used to drive it a lot when I lived in Reno).
How desperate they were...and I just drive on by.
As for the looters...could you be any dumber?
No offense, but I call BS on anyone who can't spend 10 bucks to the surviviors. Think about that really, really hard: do you really need Cheerios instead of ToastieOs for the week? Do you really need to fill up instead of walking or taking the bus?
If I ponied up the dough and I'm in DEBT, I think we can loosen the purse strings a touch.
Great, just great-now I'm agreeing with Antigone! World is starting to tip sideways on me...
I am giving up a thing I love for the next several months to contribute (I can help without doing this, but it makes it more of a tangible sacrifice to me, and David? said that a sacrifice that doesn't cost anything is not good.). I will not be buying a big gigantic diet coke on my way to work every day. I started this morning. That's almost $2 a day. Lord help me, I'm craving that slushy good thing already. My daughter keeps telling me it's not really good, that carbonation pulls phosphorous out of your bones or something like that, but it sure tastes good.
le
There is a common grace, in that the sun shines as brightly on believers as it does unbelievers. God does not judge nations today. On what basis would He judge them? Nations do not come to Christ. Individuals do. Nations do not reject Christ. Individuals do. The Old Testament references to judging nations was due to their idol worship as ethnic groups (my god is better than yours and we will prove it on the battle field nonsense). There is no application of this to the world of today. We will not be judged by what nation we lived in. If that were true, we would all be lost.
The vicissitudes of "nature" also fall on the just and the unjust. I am sure that both believers and nonbelievers (referring to belief in Jesus Christ) have died in the calamity in the deep South. Both also have survived. This is not God's judgement on a specific nation. It is however, a tragedy of staggering proportions.
No nation is ever prepared for a disaster of this scope. We will do the best we can. Other nations have volunteered assistance. It is great to see other nations returning the favors we have so generously bestowed on the rest of the world from time to time.
Why would we expect anything but looting? We have convinced people that somehow the world owes them something. They don't like something, they loot and steal. That, unfortunately is America. Are any of you familiar enough with this looting phenomenon to be able to tell us whether it happens elsewhere, or is the good ol' USA the only nation blessed with these miscreants?
Cryhmethinc: Try reading the Old Testament. God had His people to go to war with every nation in the Holy Land. They were to cleanse the land of all people except themselves. They weren't even to allow the animals to live. Because they did not obey God in this, He brought down judgement on His people.
Pat
A joke:
A born again had a flood come upon his community. The water was ankle deep and he was standing out by the road. A man in an SUV came along and volunteered to take him to high ground. The born again declined the offer.
"I'll just trust God to see me through it."
Later the water got to be waist deep. Another man came by in a boat and offered to rescuer him. Again the born again declined for the same reason.
The water got up to his rooftop and a helicopter came by offering assistance. Again the man declined, saying he would trust in God to preserve him.
Eventually the floods rose above everything and the man drowned. When he got to heaven, he sought out God and challenged Him, saying, "You let me drown! You didn't preserve me!"
God looked at him and said, "I sent you an SUV, a boat and a helicopter. What more did you want?"
I hope my sense of humor doesn't offend. However, I cannot resist one more thing: The Far Side cartoon had a memorial to the Donner Party. It was a foot inside a sandwich. As a history major and someone with a slightly off sense of humor, I thought that was hysterical. Having also taught driver training for years tends to leave you a little warped.
Allan referred to De Voto's book, and that reminded me of The Far Side.
Pat
"Are any of you familiar enough with this looting phenomenon to be able to tell us whether it happens elsewhere, or is the good ol' USA the only nation blessed with these miscreants?"
Wasn't there looting in Iraq after we went in after Saddam? Even art in museums was stolen? I guess when things get bad enough a certain segment of society (no moral grounding) thinks anything goes if it benefits their selfish lives. Criminals come in all shapes and sizes. No one is entitled to be a criminal just because they've had a hard life.
le
Pat - no offense taken, but I do believe you are wrong about God judging nations. Of course we both know he has done this from the beginning, and did not isolate it to idol worship, but homosexuality (in the case of Sodom), Babylon (when they used Israels holy artifacts), Israel (when Manasseh shed so much innocent blood), The Canaanite nations (for their child sacrifices among other sins), God even judged the whole world which brought on the great flood, and will do so again in the last days.
The confusion here is that you have fused two things together: eternal judgement (for which individuals are responsible for themselves), and Earthly judgement (which God uses corporal punishment - and uses nations often to do the work). God used Israel to punish Cananites, Babylon to punish Israel, than Persia to destroy Babylon, He used Rome to Punish Judah in 70AD as foretold by Jesus (for rejecting him), this has not stopped, even in Revelations (recorded after Christ) there are scores of collective punishments directed at groups, Churchs, and nations who Jesus himself will "strike down with a sword."
The murky waters we have to be guarded against is assuming we know who God is judging and why, or if God is judging America at all. As in the scripture cited above, its foolish for us to know whats going on behind the scenes, so the best reaction I believe is self examination and empathy for the victims.
1. We don’t know what is at work, so lets not pretend we do.
2. Get yourself right with God, just in case.
How is that different from the argument, "We don't know what caused this, but we suspect global warming, so we should work on that just in case"? Or, "We don't know what caused this, but we think the policies of this administration made it worse, so let's elect someone else just in case"?
I have a question:
If Katrina was God's vengeance on the sinners, why has Bourbon Street been relatively unscathed?
Are you saying God has a lousy aim?
Plus he took out a hell of a lot of innocents trying to get at the sinners. What's up with that? "Holy collateral damage"?
An invented 'God' could not have any role with weather. 'God' is as real as your (not very inventive) imaginations. Mythology such as yours just confuses the not very bright.
How about the role of bush boy in radically defunding our emergency agencies and sending 1/2 of our National Guard first responders to fight for oil in Iraq?
What did it get us? An unnecessary humanitarian disaster in the U.S. and Persian Gulfs, and oil company profiteering with $3.50 gallon/gas.
Good thing bush boy is pro-family? right? My question is, whose family is he pro?
I’d say that apethetic voters, and people livin’ for today, allowing 5 years of dismanteling of environmental protection bear a lot of the responsibility. Millions of acres of wetlands protected years ago from development, lost that protection under the BushII administration. These wetlands were the natural buffer between a storm surge and NOLA.
We will be hearing a lot in coming months about the “dead zone” in the Caribbean. To put it succinctly, chemical fertilizer runoff from the Missouri and Mississippi rivers accumulate in the middle of the Gulf of Mexico every summer, causing a massive phytoplankton bloom. This bloom absorbs all oxygen and causes the surface temps to get up to and past 90. This is what caused Katrina to go from a CAT2 and weakening to a CAT5 literally overnight.
http://www.nasa.gov/vision/earth.../
dead_zone.html
That and Bush chopping 44% out of New Orleans Corps of Engineers budget (bad timing, that…), well, kina hamstrings local goverment. The Bush administration has also been dismanteling FEMA, putting the responsibilities on Homeland Security, which is proving almost completely unprepared.
http://www.indyweek.com/durham/2...9-22/
cover.html
It’s been 4 years since 9/11 and supposedly Homeland Security is in place to handle the aftermath of a large-scale terrorist attack. Such an attack would leave a refugee situation similar to what we see in NOLA…why is HS so unprepared?
After the shock of the event, the American people need to scrutinize what this government under George Bush has done to the programs and systems that were supposed to take care of us in the event of disaster, as well as the laws that were put in place to try to avert it in the first place.
This is no time for “theological science”.
It's very simple and sad, really. Needed funds to protect American people have been diverted to the war in Iraq. Needed personnel and equipment are in Iraq. Republicans in congress and the whitehouse had other priorities than fixing potential flooding problems in the South. And, no living, loving God would punish millions for the crimes of thousands.
Phew! Must be hot as all these poor folks comin' in from the sun seem a bit tetched. How does a post suggesting a way to lend a hand to disaster victims turn in to a 'bash Bush & Republicans' frenzy?
Looters ain't the only idjits about, Kathy. To lend some perspective, prior to this event New Orleans sported a murder rate ten times the national average.
Nice joke Pat! DeVoto is one of my favorite historians and 1846, one of his best, IMO.
5 "new" posters in a row before Allan-Michael's site probably was highlighted again at a liberal blog/site. Welcome!
Mr. Gallaugher I have to disagree with you. We do know why this happened and what is at work. "Hurricanes are intense low pressure areas that form over warm ocean waters in the summer and early fall. Their source of energy is water vapor which is evaporated from the ocean surface. Water vapor is the "fuel" for the hurricanes because it releases the "latent heat of condensation" when it condenses to form clouds and rain, warming the surrounding air. (This heat energy was absorbed by the water vapor when it was evaporated from the warm ocean surface, cooling the ocean in the process.) Usually, the heat released in this way in tropical thunderstorms is carried away by wind shear, which blows the top off the thunderstorms. But when there is little wind shear, this heat can build up, causing low pressure to form. The low pressure causes wind to begin to spiral inward toward the center of the low. These winds help to evaporate even more water vapor from the ocean, spiraling inward toward the center, feeding more showers and thunderstorms, and warming the upper atmosphere still more. The showers and thunderstorms where all of this energy is released are usually organized into bands (sometimes called "rainbands" or "feeder bands"), as well as into an "eyewall" encircling the center of the storm. The eyewall is where the strongest winds occur, which encircle the warmest air, in the eye of the hurricane. This warmth in the eye is produced by sinking air, which sinks in response to rising air in the thunderstorms. The winds diminish rapidly moving from the eyewall to the inside of the relatively cloud-free eye, where calm winds can exist." I got this information from this link:http://www.weatherquestions.com/
What_causes_hurricanes.htm
I'm not clear on a point I made with which you disagree Brian, I attributed Katrina to nothing in particular, but have discussed what I believe a good reaction to it would be.
Mike- Can you demonstrate God's judgement on a particular nation since 70 AD?
We (Christians) are a chosen nation, a royal priesthood. We live all over the world. We are not spared the tumults of what God allows to happen.
The most protected Christians in the Middle East were those under Saddam. Yet he was removed from power. Now they face more persecution than ever. What gives with that?
I still maintain that there is no basis on which God would judge a nation today.
Ok! Since 70? How about the fall of Rome also propecised in Daniel, which was about I think 400AD. I can go further than that too, which I touched on in my last comment:
Revelation 19:15 From His mouth there comes a sharp sword with which He will smite the nations
It's just frustration Michael. People lash out when frustrated and usually at that which is uppermost of their list of things to hate.
The mayor of New Orleans, Ray Nagin, declared a state of emergency last Sunday and called for a mandatory evacuation of New Orleans. Many either did not get the warning, did not heed it or could not. The result is the chaotic, lawless situation which now exists in the city.
Evacuation and rescue vehicles are not entering the city, fearful of being attacked. One helicopter was attacked by and angry crowd with guns as it attempted to land on the roof of a hospital. The military will have to go in to restore order before relief efforts can truly get under way.
Hurricane have been going on for a long time. We have been measuring them for a long time. It is highly premature to blame this on global warming. The Spanish treasure ships of the 1500s were devastated by hurricanes. In the 1600s Puritans observed what we call acid rain. That certainly predated the world's industrialization. Maybe those evil Native Americans actually caused it all because they did not have industrialized economies...or they had industrialized economies and have hidden them from us. How sneaky can you be! And you can't even blame that on a European patriarchal society! Native Americans were matriarchal! Maybe...we can think up some other moronic way to blame the present political leadership for a natural disaster, but I would recommend getting a grip on our collective selves. I would personally appreciate the opportunity to warmly grip any warm-blooded female in the not-too-distant future. Seriously, I am astounded by the vitriol coming from some of the posters here today. Have any of you heard of the Prez being blamed for the tsunami? I'm sure someone has been trying to blame it on him.
Pat
Michael-
I am amazed. You're in an amillennial church, aren't you? They would never believe that anything in the Bible points to the fall of Rome. Get your eschatology straight. They don't believe that much of anything in Rev. points to the future, except for the actual second coming. In Rev. 19:15 the reference is to the world, not specific nations. Nations (plural) would most likely refer to the world.
Pat
Yeah Pat, I think the feet of the statue and the 4th beast was Rome (in Daniel) the four major Empires. I don't know what you mean about my Church being amillennial, the 1000 year millenium is something I'm ambivelent about, but doesn't turn the whole book of Daniel into a figurative description - its a bit too specific for that and the events during the inter testament period are too similar to Daniels prophecies, except for when we get to the part about the anti Christ which some port into the future (like Jesus for example!)
Dan 7:23 "He gave me this explanation: 'The fourth beast is a fourth kingdom that will appear on earth. It will be different from all the other kingdoms and will devour the whole earth, trampling it down and crushing it.
and a few verses prior: "So he told me and gave me the interpretation of these things: 'The four great beasts are four kingdoms that will rise from the earth.
the Historian Josephus identified the first three beasts as Babylon, Mede-Persia, and Greece, but left the 4th as an "unknown" why? Because he was writing his history for ROME and he wanted to keep his job and his head 
Who do you think the 4th beast was and why?
Now if you believe everything in Revelations is fulfilled, how come no one knows what has been fulfilled? Biblical prophecy is always a bit bazaar until after the Prophecies are fulfilled, but that really is neither here nor there. I think this idea you have of God no longer judging specific nations needs some Biblical support. Lets take 70 AD. You acknowlege that the fall of Israel was Gods judgement on them all for rejecting Christ - I think you have to because Jesus said so himself. If something about the fundamental way in which God deals with nations changed, why did it change after 70 AD and not during the ascension of Jesus and the offering of the Holy Spirit at Pentecost?
Michael-
Can I assume that the tsunami of last year was was God's judgement on that part of the world? I am sure that Christians died in that, as did some in Katrina.
Did the empire described in Daniel actually conquer the whole world? Was this fulfilled, or does it point to some future literal world empire?
I am unsure that Rome was the fourth kingdom or is some future kingdom. I hope we have someone other than just Josephus to identify the first three kingdoms. The last time I checked, the works of Josephus are not holy writ and I do not want to rely on his interpretation of Daniel to come to such an important conclusion. To do so would be tantamount to accepting tradition along with scripture, which was anathema to the Reformation founding fathers. That is exactly what they were fighting against- tradition vs. scripture. I hope we have a better explanation than the writings of Josephus.
I am not a diehard amillennialist myself. I hold to that position very loosely. There are many amillennialists who could explain that everything in Revelation has happened except for the actual resurrection, and they could be quite convincing.
The point I mentioned earlier, maybe elsewhere, that this hurricane can be likened to:
"God makes the rain to fall on the just and the unjust."
It's an event, a catastrophic event, and during this harsh, hard time, there will be those who turn to God, and those who curse God. New Orleans isn't any more sinful than Powersite, Missouri, in that this hurricane isn't a judgement on New Orleans for being more sinful-we wouldn't even have this conversation if the hurricane landed 30 miles to the east or west.
I'm extremely hesitant to rain fire and brimestone down on looters. I couldn't say if I was in that situation, and my family was hungry, that I wouldn't do the exact same thing to the local grocery store.
As it stands, the businesses can't sell the food, and their insurance will cover it. I don't see it as stealing any more than dumpster diving is stealing.
And what do you think about stealing electronics?
le
People do stupid things in stressful situations.
Or, I imagine that they're thinking "need something to barter out of this flooded city."
Not that it matters, but I was the 'anonymous' earlier. Somehow, i'm confident that N.O. and the area will rebuild stronger than ever. Pass the hope along.
John 9:1-3 makes me consider that God is not punishing innocent people for the sins of others: (it came up several entries ago)
As Jesus was walking along, he saw a man who had been blinded from birth. "Rabbi," his disciples asked him, "why was this man born blind? Was it because of his own sins or his parents sins?"
"It was not because of his sins or his parents' sins," Jesus answered. "This happened so the power of God could be seen in him." Jesus healed him.
The man did not have to be born blind. And Lazarus did not have to die. But the time for miraculous works is and always will be in God's time for His purpose. We didn't understand how Jesus could have left his good friend to die. Even Lazarus's sisters were upset with Him to say the least. But if He had prevented Lazarus from dying He never would have been able to raise him from the dead in front of hundreds of people.
Those of us who know missionaries in foreign countries will tell you that the 10/40 window has opened since the tsunami. I'd say that's pretty significant headway towards spreading the Gospel. Yes, innocents died in the tsunami, but the workings of God is not about me or you or even the people floating on front doors in New Orleans. It's about fulfilling His promise.
I wonder sometimes if the Babylon of Revelation is the United States. I often marvel at how new our country is relatively speaking and how rich and powerful we became in such a short time. When we compare ourselves to other, much older countries who have not made nearly a tenth of our progress it is not hard to see how much we have been given.
Right now if you were to read Revelation 18, more specifically 18:16-19 what would pop out at you is the purple and gold of a city that is no more. Scarlet and precious stones and all the wealth of the city gone in a single moment!
It talks about merchants of ships watching it being destroyed saying, "where is there another city as great as this?"
(Babylon is fallen - that great city is fallen! She has become a home for demons." Rev 18:2)
And I only wonder whether or not we are the Philadelphian Church or the Laodicean Church. And thank the Lord I'm saved either way.
All we can do now is trust in God to lead us through these times and not to wait around for God to use us, but to see where He is and go there.
Terri
Yes, the poor looters. Have you no sense of decency Antigone? It's called values, and the values that have been imbued in a person are what take over in stressful situations when rational thought is not an option or, for that matter, even when it is.
Some work to help, others work to harm. In the 1965 Watts riots looters and rioters were shooting at firefighters trying to save people's homes and businesses. Not until the national guard moved into the area in force did the criminals retreat to their rat holes.
Oh, I know. It's society's fault. Actually, it partly is society's fault in that the dumbing down of education, the acceptance of every kind of aberrant behavior as some sort of free expression, the tolerance of every kind of deviance as perfectly normal and, therefore, legitimate behavior, has become either acceptable, normal, or is ignored.
When order is restored and attention can shift to rebuilding lives and homes we will see countless psychiatrists and lawyers descend on the victims. Counseling and lawsuits. Great mix for success and happiness.
It isn't enough to make excuses for bad behavior and say 'meh' nor is it enough to point fingers. You should try to understand what it is that made Eddy risk his life again and again to save a few souls while Keseberg was driven to cannibalism. (see my post above)
River stay away from my door...and yours!
The greatest sin is weakness, isn't it? Especially from one who thinks him/herself strong.
Quit blaming the victims, and start blaming the inepititude.
Ok Pat I think you know me better than to cite Josephus as equivalent of scripture, which of course I do not. But his views reveal a Jewish understanding that is closer to that period than we are, and I do factor secular writings into the analysis when the topic is not theology or doctrine, but simple history. I had secular textbooks when I went to school that helped me to know American history.
Now the identification of the four Kingdoms in Daniel ch 7 and 8 have long been held to be describing Babylonia, Medo-Persia, Greece and Rome. My NIV Bible study notes don't even offer alternative understanding from any other scholarly source. Unless, you are aware of a specific alternate interpretation and can present it, I don't have any other thing to go on. Rome did indeed have the worlds largest Empire, I don't know if any one nation annexed the world entire at any time, but certainly the Roman Empire had a pretty good run from 63BC and the 5th Century.
Was the Tsunami Gods wrath? Why do you ask me this Pat. When did I claim to know even the cause of Katrina? My position is two fold and I will make them clear here:
1. Gods judgments against nations or groups can be manifested in natural or man made disasters (as Jesus provided both examples in the Luke passage cited in this post)
2. We do not have the ability to know Gods mind to render a specific judgment or explain the details. Our response should be as Jesus himself presented: perform some self examination when these things occur and fear God, lest we be next.
I would like your opinion of the last two, rather than a debate about the matrix of Biblical prophecy.
http://policyforum.blogspot.com/...ne-said-
it.html
I hope everyone on this blog cools down a bit overnight. Franklin Graham was just on Fox suggesting that the able bodied men in the Astrodome who have lost everything be given work, paying work, cleaning and rebuilding the cities from the devastation. We've been there before.
In the depths of the Great Depression, government programs were initiated to get the country back up on it's feet, including the CCC-Civilian Conservation Corps. My grandfather was in the CCC.
Fleshing out Graham's suggestion a bit, and putting this out for comments/discussion:
Step one: Hire and sort workers as to skills and physical ability and get busy. Housing in clear areas should be built, with government stores for the buying of supplies.
Government stores because the workers wouldn't be paid in money, but scrip-for the first few months money would do no good for them anyway, with nowhere to spend it, no where else to buy nessesary items. Make the hourly wage-in scrip-the equivalent of $30.00 an hour. Set up the scrip payments in debit accounts,with the greater portion of the money untouchable for the first six months-to create nest eggs for the families to rebuild their lives, saving for the future.
It wouldn't be welfare, but workfare.
A man stands taller when he earns his own money instead of having it given to him.
Step two: Businesses encouraged to relocate divisions to the area, creating jobs. National/international businesses in the area before the hurricane will be expected to rebuild and reopen, hiring locals.
Step three: Actually, from the beginning city planners should be laying out the "New" New Orleans. I mentioned on my blog that the lowest areas could be filled in, and that the advances in engineering should make it possible to design the city and levees safer. Right now, with everything basically levelled, is the time to rebuild smarter, not along the lines of 1789. It will always be a beautiful city, it will once again be a tourist destination, but this time now is an opportunity to rebuild better, as Chicago did after the fire, or San Francisco after the 1907(or so) earthquake.
Comments?
No.
Great analysis. I linked back from my blog.
I find it interesting to note that, in the middle of all this discussion of Katrina as some sort of divine retribution, the region of New Orleans that's actually in the _best_ shape is the French Quarter, while the poorest areas are under water. If we are to believe that this hurricane represents some commentary by God, then He can only be telling us "to heck with the meek, more Girls Gone Wild!"
Doug,
I agree. Government initiatives have been around for years. It's not a new concept just unconventional by today's standards. That's why it has to be implemented. "Today's Standards" should be added to the oxymoron list along with "common courtesy".
There are many other places where government initiatives like that could work, but unions and corruption even outside the government, would blast it out of the water before it had a fair start.
I am afraid that even in such a desperate area as New Orleans, there will be bid wars over who goes where for what contract and the price will be paid by the people who can't afford to wait for them to settle it all with the skills they learned in kindergarten.
But I'd love to be proven wrong.
CA
I agree, Doug (mark that on your calendar!) and Candy. I don't know if filling in the area is practicable or sustainable, but just rebuilding what was there before doesn't make sense. Sadly, greed, corruption, fear and greed will probably win out over sensible proposals.
I just wish I could help more. Reading all the discussion yesterday of biblical prophecy and of divine judgment vs. global warming vs. too many levees, I wanted to scream. Yet just about everyone here has already said they have donated or will donate. What else would I have anyone do? It's such a helpless feeling.
i have nothing to say except amen to that. it's refreshing to know that there are Christians out there who live by the word, not by their good deeds and self-righteousness.
Lu,
I think someone else said it: Find out where God is working and go there. We can do that with our dollars, our bodies, our prayers - if we really want to.
I watched on TV how a family was trying to stay together despite the overwhelming effort it cost. I wanted to open up my house to them and I think my husband lives in daily fear that he'll come home to find a stranger sleeping in his recliner (who's been sitting in my chair - or the Goldilocks syndrome).
But why shouldn't I? I mean I have tons of room. I could bring them to school, give them toys to play with, and with even a quarter of the overstock of my pantry alone I could feed them for a month.
But I can't and not because my husband would freak out, (maybe I even use his fear as a reason not to - I'm braver when I know they'll be a restraining hand) but because I'm afraid. I'm afraid that to help that closely would mean I would have no control over my "organized" life. I'm afraid of what would happen if I allowed strangers to use what I covet. I'm afraid that if I help them and give all I have, that I may become them.
My truth has become ugly to me but I pray that God will help me become the Christian He wants me. I pray He will equip me with what I need to do His will, to obey the command He sends out whether I think I'm ready for it or not. But more importantly I pray to trust Him and not take too long arguing with myself and making my weaknesses the focus, but to put all that aside to hear Him when He calls me
CA.
I hear you, Candy. I've been thinking the same thing about letting Katrina survivors stay here. But we are 1500 miles away, and we already gave money, and we have a disabled child... all the "buts" come butting in, don't they? Still, it's time to look harder for ways to help anyone in need.
Full disclosure btw, for you and Anonymous, who may or may not have been talking to me: as the regulars can tell you, I'm not a Christian (and most of the time I am light-years to the left of most people here, although I gotta agree with Le about violence and looting luxury items). Not believing doesn't get me off the moral hook though. Sometimes I wish it did.
Candy:
That candid admission is refreshing. I also would love to bring someone to my home. But it could end up being such a long and costly commitment, I am afraid to do it. I am praying about it too.
I think we need to wait to see how the government is going to get churches involved, and then if your church is a "host" church, or whatever, for some of these lost souls, do what you can. At this point, there's probably not even a way to help individual people if you aren't in the area.
See some really good ideas at Hugh Hewitt's blog. I hope the president has his ear on the blogosphere, because real people want to help. Don't put your faith in the politicians.
le
Thanks guys. I'm going to go and have a good cry now and when I'm done I'm going to call my pastor and ask if our great religious organization is sponsoring a particular relief effort.
CA
Don't go here if you don't want to be annoyed:
http://blogcritics.org/archives/...9/01/
170702.php
When 09-11 struck, there were all sorts of conservatives saying, "They didn't even vote for George Bush in that liberal bastion. I'm not sending my money to help them." Right?
le
I am not annoyed, I am appalled. Never mind what Bush coulda or shoulda done. THESE PEOPLE NEED HELP.
(I posted the above on the linked blog as well.)
I have to say, however, I am appalled by this as well:
Q Scott, do you cited the President's zero tolerance for insurance fraud, looting, price gouging. Does he make any allowance for people who have yet to receive aid who are taking things like water or food or shoes to walk among the debris?
MR. McCLELLAN: I think you heard from the President earlier today about his zero tolerance. We understand the need for food and water and supplies of that nature. That's why we have a massive effort underway to continue getting food and water and ice to those who are in need. There are ways for them to get that help. Looting is not the way for them to do it.
(From Scott McClellan's press conference yesterday.)
I think it will be true that not one person who has taken necessary food or water or pairs of shoes or pants or diapers, etc. will be prosecuted or arrested. They may be stopped and given food or water or assistance or instructions or directions. "Zero tolerance" is simply a message to the looters who are taking advantage of the situation to terrorize people and capitalize on the misery.
I have heard that many local police have handed in their badges. Has anyone else heard this? If you have, what is the story on that? Are they just too frustrated?
le
About the looting, I hope you're right, Le. Yes, I've heard that too, about the police. The story I've read is that they are frustrated, tired and scared. They're hungry and thirsty too, and they don't want to be shot at. Can't say I blame them for feeling that way. Do I blame them for leaving? I don't know: I haven't walked in their shoes.
Michael-
I have no problem with the second part. We do not know... and it is presumptuous to assume that God is pouring out His wrath. It is also presumptuous to assume that He is NOT pouring out His wrath. We should always be examining ourselves. I just see much from the Robertson-Falwell ilk that assumes that as long as the disaster did not happen to them that it must be God's judgement on the sins of the world. What would they think if God dropped an airplane on one of their homes? Or sent a hurricane or tornado through their homes? What would they say? For that matter, if we did what the environmental wackos want, there would be mass starvation. Would that then be God's judgement? I am just concerned that we not jump to any conclusions about God's working one way or the other. I am appalled by both sides being posted here.
I still see no basis for God judging a particular nation today. If he did so, He would have to ppour out his wrath out on all the nations. That WILL happen in the end, but it will deal with individual unbelief within the nation, not the government of any particular nation.
Pat
you know i am usually reading on left side. but in reading thru some of these comments, many of you have one foot in the loony door. the god you talk about sounds nothing but vengeful, merciless, hatefull. my grandfather was not a church person, not even baptized but he had the loving heart that all of profess to have. his believe if you treat your fellow, man no matter what the differences were among you, with dignity and respect, then if there is a god, he would be taken care of. but some you sound god first and everything later. that is what is wrong with this world. god first and then there is nothing left.
le, you are really funny!!!! you talk about looting and criminals??? how crazy would you go????? how about the biggest looting ever in this country?? we had 5 trillion surplus. you figure out the rest. these people probably were like kids in a candy store, the people in N.O. that is. the people who looted the 5 trillion probably felt like kids in a candy store too, a godiva chocolate store. let's not get into the criminal activety, fitzpatrick will take care of that.
yes as michelle malkin says americans are digging into their own pockets to help. what the hell do we pay taxes for???? what is HOMELAND security for??? bush stands on the empty land of trent lott, trent lott's SECOND home. his family was safe in his FIRST home. this is the great divide between us, the haves, the have some and the ones who have none. i have heard people say why did'nt they take food with them, what take the frig and stove with them up to the roof. have you ever been in a pending disaster with no money? i have, a single mom with 3 kids and a huricane coming, no money and no way off galveston island. thankfully it was a tropical storm and we were safe. most of you sound like you would have the ways and means to get of disaster. you do not understand or feel what happens when you are at the bottom.
everyone of us except the 10% will be hurt by bush, everyone of you. you know we are all bottom feeders to the 10%. and if you do not feels that way just wait. have any of you had a beer with bush yet, played a round of golf with him yet, gone to a barbeque with yet???? do not hold your breath, you are servant class, we all are. we are all going to slip into the lower class. just look at the statistics. well nothing i say matters, your eyes are closed. go read all the books you can about bush, left books and right books. draw your own conclusions. i knew nothing about him before 2000. i knew poppy bush. after reading alot about bush, even about his ideas at yale, i told my kids, when bush gets thru with us, this country would be broke, we would be in a religious war, the poor class would increase, the middle class would start to cease existing and our democracy would reach the expiration date on it's shelf life. i have not been wrong so far.
i do not like your god, your god is always about bad. you are controlled by your god thru your church leaders. that was the purpose of religion, to keep the tribes together. there were gods before like the sun, moon, thunder, lightening etc. all were debunked. now were have the bible and no way to prove true or false. so the bible will stay with us. some people need to be controlled. i might add believing in the bible/new testament makes you gullable and easily manipulated. no i think i will continue to believe like my grandfather in the dignity of other human beings, respect life of everything then if there is a god he will be taken care of. do not give me any bullcrap about abortion, abortion is about 2 people. if you met a fetus in a dark alley you would run in fear at the sight of it. life starts when a host is not needed. that is respect of ALL life.
I am glad you feel abortion is about two people. At least you said one right thing.
le
I am a new visitor like Mary, but I have to say that what I find refreshing is the humility and compassion I see in some of the post here. I think this is another opportunity for American to pull together and do what it best, to remember that we really do share the same vision of America in many ways. I look forward to working with all of you to make this country whole again.
mary f munson - Hmm. A poor single mother with internet access.
BTW there has never been a 5 trillion dollar anywhere, anytime, in any nation. There was, however, a 5.7 trillion dollar national debt which was reduced by the budget surpluses of the nineties. Those surpluses, by the way, were the result of the dot.com boom which, you may recall, petered out when it was discovered that they were long on promise, short on results. The bubble bursting led to the recession which the present administration inherited.
Add to that the cost of 9/11, the Afghanistan & Iraq war, and now Katrina, and perhaps you may understand why you cannot depend on government to protect you. Government can help, can even lead the way, but only charitable people will put the nation together.
Correction: 5 trillion dollar debt.
Michael, get preview, pleeeeze! Preview is your friend.
Egads! I even messed up the correction...it should read there has never been a 5 trillion dollar surplus anywhere, not debt.
It's okay, Allan. We all have our moments. 
le
I'm srory Allan, htat woud cause me to migrate way from haloscan which aint gonna happen bt don wrory - as a profesional typeseter, their is a special place in my heart for typos.
Allan,
We all have our writing flaws. Some display something that looks like dyslexia or confusion in general. Others have trouble with possessive forms, plural forms, and contractions, often getting the representation patterns upside down. And still others will occasionally write entire sentences by accident. The problem I have is I sometimes spell 'a lot' as 'allot', 'alot' being the spelling I’d prefer, but my spellchecker changes it to 'allot'.
I edit for a living. Even I make the occasional mistake.
(In case anyone cares, the mistake that drives me the craziest, by no means limited to this blog: it's for its. Handy mnemonic: his, her, and its are possessive pronouns; none has an apostrophe. He's, she's, and it's are contractions of [pronoun] is; all have apostrophes.)
Lu - when I write something and want it to be taken seriously (which happens on occasion) I hand the text to my wife for her to grammar check. As of late I have been using my producer Tom less and less because his turnaround times are so darn slow.
Lu,
I’ve always wanted to know to this: what is a good rule for the semicolon? I like the idea of run-on sentences, but want the correct punctuation. Also regular colons; was my just written first sentence accurate?
Btw, I feel the same way about the disaster.
Positive news though (at least for some of us), that’s not really discussed much in the media:
State Senate Votes to Let Gays Marry (Allan’s "State")
http://www.latimes.com/news/loca...&
track=morenews
Tom's ears are burning. Do turtles have ears?
le
Michael! What are you doing on the Internet on Saturday!?
We both should be out of here!!!
DYSLEXICS UNTIE!
Very clever Allan.
I bet anyone can read this entire sentence though:
Bscaeue czipanhemes are our csoselt lniivg rialetevs, the cmihp gomene is the msot uesufl key to udnretinsnadg hamun bgolioy and evliotuon, nxet to the hmuan gnemoe istlef. The berkahtorguh wlil aid sicstneits in tehir mosisin to laren waht stes us arapt form ohetr alinams.
Very clever Allan.
I bet anyone can read this entire sentence though:
Bscaeue czipanhemes are our csoselt lniivg rialetevs, the cmihp gomene is the msot uesufl key to udnretinsnadg hamun bgolioy and evliotuon, nxet to the hmuan gnemoe istlef. The berkahtorguh wlil aid sicstneits in tehir mosisin to laren waht stes us arapt form ohetr alinams.
Blulprac!
le
Le,
It took me about 7 minutes to figure it out. I must be a chimp!
Hmm.. That is what you wrote, what I wrote I can read easily. Okay enough nonsense for one day for me. Ya'll have a nice extended weekend.
Btw, the tcirk is in knepieg the fsrit and lsat lretets of the wrod ictant. Arlaepntpy the hamun biarn dsoen’t riquere siulaptiotns on the oehtr lteters.
http://science.slashdot.org/scie...6.shtml?
tid=133
That was fun! ttyl
le
John D, very briefly, because we are way OT and the non-grammar-obsessed are likely to be bored silly:
A semicolon separates grammatically complete and related parts of a sentence, for example: My house is surrounded by trees; they shade it from the strong summer sun. Semicolons can also separate long or complex terms in a list.
A colon usually says "I'm about to explain or give you an example of what I just said," as in the paragraph above. A colon can also start a list.
Email me if you want more info.
That's a good one John D. It's fascinating how the brain can recognize patterns and make sense of seeming gibberish.
IMO, that must be why rap is so popular. While it may sound like gibberish to many of us it's fans can actually make sense of it.
Allan-did you do that to tease Lu?
Going back to the surplus- there never was one, except in the minds of bureaucrats and lying politicians, both Republican and Democrat. The government cooks its books using methods that would earn a prison term if used in the private sector. Saying there was a surplus doesn't make it so.
Pat
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