And socialized medicine reduces your incentive to work hard to be productive so you can afford what might be expensive treatment if you come down with ailment X, Y, or Z.
Disincentives for productivity kill economies and sink everybodies' boat.
I have a friend who lives in England where they have cradle to grave health service. She worked for the NHS & I won't repeat her comments about socialized medicine but suffice it to say she isn't thrilled with it.
In England they already refuse treatment to the overweight. They still have to pay the taxes, of course! Unless whatever's wrong becomes too debilitating for them to be able to work, but better the system loses that money than fat people be treated equally.
But the wait for "free" gender-reassignment surgery is about a year shorter than the wait for a hip replacement, so what's the problem?
If healthcare is universalized it does not mean that you would not be able to pay for a different type of care.
If healthcare is universalized it does not mean that you would not be able to pay for a different type of care.
Martha: Re-read my post. Specifically this part:
Then there was the man who "was denied the option to pay full cost" from his own pocket for medicine to treat his multiple sclerosis, because, Larson writes, "the bureaucrats said it would set a bad precedent and lead to unequal access to medicine."
Clearly, there are many who feel my "ability to pay for a different type of care" would create an unfair disparity in the medical system. Which continues to back my assertion socialized medicine is only about giving everyone equal access to sub-par care.
How can you rationalize taxing me for healthcare that does not cover my needs, then expect me to pay extra to cover the needs the taxes were *supposed* to cover under "free" health care?
The US healthcare system is broken. That is unless you work for an opulent healthcare or pharmaceutical provider. In that case, US healthcare works like a charm (from a for-profit perspective).
But let me put my business degree away for a minute. As a citizen and patient, I now believe in universal healthcare in America just like I believe in socialized libraries, policemen, firemen, public schools, and highways. Here are five reasons why:
1. Socialized medicine doesn't always mean lower quality. While privatization of industry always increases quality, at what point do you factor in the law of diminishing returns? A system where the rich enjoy superior healthcare at the expense of basic healthcare for the poor and middle class doesn't make sense. I've seen examples in Australia, France, the UK, Canada, and even Brazil where universal healthcare works. It's not perfect and has its challenges, but do those challenges warrant the insane amount premiums we pay and very poor customer service we get from Cigna, Humana, Blue Cross, etc? I don't think so. Rumor even has it that socialized Cuba has doctors and technology comparable, if not better than some in the US.
2. I have received universal healthcare to my satisfaction (usually). I lived in socialized Brazil for two years and received delightful healthcare on several accounts with no superfluous waiting periods. I got stitches in my head for free at a very clean facility, I visited the doctor for cold medication several times only having to pay about $2.50 for drugs, and my roomate got a highly subsidized, quality root canal on demand. I also received sub-par care while having an ingrown toe nail removed in the country, but I've also received sub-par medical care here in the good ole US of A. Considering how much a US doctor might have charged for my toe infection, I still would have taken the sub-par, albeit functional Brazilian healthcare in lieu of paying several thousands of dollars for US healthcare. Imagine the possibilities of a high quality, American universal healthcare system, then!
3. I've been screwed by US healthcare (story here). In addition to my parents and numerous other paying clients, US health insurance companies will actually look for ways to maximize profits at the expense of your health. Good business requires the maximization of profits, but good business in this sense compromises life which is ultimately bad business. "Denial management specialists" are real folks, and that's just wrong.
4. Doctors can still get paid well by the government. One important factor to remember in this discussion is that doctors in a capital market have the right to achieve limitless financial success. I sympathize with that right but now believe we should socialize that right here in America like we have done for policemen, librarians, municipal workers, fireman, government employees, and any other profession with a salary cap. But socialized medicine doesn't equal Commie results. And do you know who the number one most desired client is in the private sector? The Federal Government. That's right, they pay on time, they pay very well, and there's no reason they wouldn't do the same for doctors, especially good ones with incentives. If a good family doctor in the socialized UK can make $200,000/year, why can't it be the same if not better here in the US?
5. Micheal Moore's SiCKO makes a convincing, albeit dramatized case. It should be noted that the catalyst of this post was in watching Micheal Moore's upcoming Sicko documentary on the failure of US healthcare. After seeing the screener, I came away moved and floored, enough in fact to push me over the edge on the subject. The documentary is classic, fact-contorting, and one-sided Moore, but the subject matter speaks for itself. According to the film, the US is the last country in the western hemisphere without universal healthcare while many other countries such as the UK, France, and Cuba enjoy systems that work far more often than they fail. Sure the film glamorizes the disputed and free Canadian healthcare system, but Moore's film dexterity shines bright, patronizing dialog aside. Filter the filmaker's bias accordingly, and you'll find copious amounts of evidence in favor of a universal healthcare system for Americans.
Our privatized healthcare system is ineffective, costly, and dehumanizing. I realize universal healthcare costs money (read: higher taxes), that revolutionizing the system is only possible by including healthcare companies in some way, and that the American dream comes at a price. But must that price include for-profit healthcare that is broken for more people than it superiorly helps? I no longer think so.
You know, I can see prenatal and obstetric care being withheld for those who have "too many" children, or are of "advanced maternal age," or are carrying "imperfect" babies.
Or they get it conditionally, by signing a contract not to have any more.
I don't know if that's happening anywhere but China, but if we're rationing health care, why wouldn't it?
We should go universal. WHY NOT ?
We should go universal. WHY NOT ?
Because it would be government bureaucrats instead of doctors making decisions.
Heather - it is. From a story I read - about a woman who was rendered infertile from a forced abortion - you need to have a "permission" to have a child. Just one.
And then, after one, you're either heavily fined (sounds like environmentalists), or forced to abort, or the child (usually girls) is killed immediately after birth or abandoned to die.
Barb: Why not? Many reasons - some of which I've listed here. There are more negative stories from nations with universal, socialized health care, than there are positive stories. People from Canada come to America for treatments they are either denied outright (or told they can't pay for on their own), hospitals in the UK and Cuba are dirty, treatment is denied or withheld from those who don't fit the template.
And it goes on and on...
You want universal health care? Go to Canada or the UK for a while - get really sick - then come back and tell me how good the system works.
Anyone without a medical degree should not be making decisions about health care.
And - to Heather's point - they would be making decisions that should be one's own choice, between them and their *doctor*...not some Washington bean-counter.
I'll have my mother-in-law share stories from her friend who worked for NHS in England. From the horses' mouth, and all that.
no response ?
Two comments on Jim's thesis (I'm probably asking for it, but here goes)
"Rumor even has it that socialized Cuba has doctors and technology comparable, if not better than some in the US."
That explains why a specialist from Spain had been flown in to treat Castro.
"After seeing the screener ('Sicko'), I came away moved and floored, enough in fact to push me over the edge on the subject. The documentary is classic, fact-contorting, and one-sided Moore, but the subject matter speaks for itself."
Gee, what would a documentary that is fact-reporting and balanced do to you?
Rumors, bias and anecdotal experiences are useless in this type of discussion. That's probably why there were no responses.
That's probably why there were no responses.
No, I didn't respond because I've said all I want to say. The facts are clear. Socialized medicine leads to quotas, sub-par health care, discrimination, and restrictions.
All at the price of ever-increasing taxes.
Michael Moore is a liar and a distorter. His "documentaries" are biased and carefully edited to twist fact to his favor.
Until he - or any proponent of socialized medicine - lives like the common folk in Cuba, Canada, or the UK, they cannot understand what a craptacular hole socialized medicine is.
Amy--I know it's going on in China and has been for decades. It's documented in India as well and among Asians here in the U.S. and Canada. They just can sex-select more easily here as there aren't any laws against it. Besides the moral law, that is.
I just wondered how long it would take to become part of the mainstream for those who "don't fit the template."
I would predict two minutes after the beancounters take over.
Having lived in Canada for a few years I came to realize that universal healthcare is simply a legalized form of euthanasia. I had an elderly friend who's cancer was in remission thanks to some high cost medicine and when she got past 65 they gave her a lesser medicine instead and she died less than 3 months later due to the fact the cancer had returned with a vengance. We do not need socialized medicine unless those in power have to suffer like the rest of us. Once they see they don't get preferential treatment then they'll repeal the stuff and never bring it up again.
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