You can not get rid of the gang members. They live in your community. They were a part of your community before joining a gang. They have families. Where do you want them to go? They need to be treated somehow. A drill instructor seems to be a better role model then a cellmate who is a gang leader. If the kids have no violent records, then send them to Iraq, it's win win. There have been murders and rapes for hundreds of years in our military.
1958? 50 yrs ago you were beat up by "gangmembers" One account in the military and all of a sudden "gangmembers" cant fight for their country? Im not for gangs but going into the military can teach young men and women discipline, respect and how to work as a team. If we as a country give up on our young men and women who else can they turn to?
Gang members MIGHT be ok in a PEACE-time military BUT the current grunt already has enough problems fighting the Monkey's Wars without having to watch their backs, as well.
I like the happy ending: 25 years (in a Marine prison is not gonna be fun).
I agree with you it is bad enough you are out there riskng your lifes fighting for our country and adding an imature person "gang member" thinking he is still walking the streets by trying to take your life away doesn't sound right. These "gang members" have no shame. I have heard of kids out there fighting for this country calling home chocked up all the time. Are any of these gang members ever going touch there hearts?
What exactly makes a gang member a gang member?
It's not at all about stereotyping -- though many gang members and their political supporters often try to play that shell game.
A concise and agreed-upon definition has yet to be found in the study of gangs, though most scholars agree that a gang is a group of two (or three) or more individuals who form a loosely organized group (or remain together as a group) with one of the primary purposes of that group being the continued commission of criminal acts. Gangs vary greatly in size, geography, criminal sophistication, modus operandi, and their impact on the community or communities. As noted earlier, there is much diversity in gang membership. All races and ethnic backgrounds are included.
Ball and Curry (1995) suggested an heuristic definition for gangs, and offered: a "spontaneous, semisecret, interstitial, integrated but mutable social system whose members share common interests and that functions with relatively little regard for legality but regulates interaction among its members and features a leadership structure with processes of organizational maintenance and membership services and adaptive mechanisms for dealing with other significant social systems in its environment" (p. 9).
More simply, a gang is a group of individuals who 1) agree to commit crime 2) on a regular bases, and 3) one of them does something to further the commission of the crime. This definition contains the essential elements needed to prove the criminal charge of conspiracy in most jurisdictions. Gangs can be seen as criminal organizations because they are, for the most part, in violation of the various conspiracy laws in our country.
So no, the organizations known as the boy scouts, the Marines, and the local police department are not gangs by definition because their primary purpose for existing is not the commission of criminal activity.
Ball, R. A. & Curry, G. D. (1995). The logic of definition in criminology: Purposes and methods for defining "gangs". Criminology, 33(2), 225.
PS -- the above is now a blog post, thanks for the inspiration :-)
I say forget the training since they already know how to kill, instead put them on the front lines. If they make it back alive then they'll just be one more useless waste of human life on the streets, if they don't make it back oh well....we won't miss them.
I also agree with Sue....put them on an island and let them kill each other.
I agree 150%, about gangs in the military being hard,
and yes if they want them in then they should put them in a special training camp thats more intensive.
Back in 84 when I was in basic, we had a guy who told ya flat out he came from a gang in L.A. and joined up to keep out of jail,
He showed his gang attitude alot, we were marching one day and someone bumped him on a march, and we was doing a countercolumn, where ya basicly do a U-Turn as a group and when he got bumped he punched the guy out, of course when the Sgt. asked what happened nobody saw anything.
What exactly makes a gang member a gang member? Sounds like a lot of stereotyping going on. You could consider a bunch of Marines with USMC tattoos consider gang members when they are hanging out together right?
Way to go for speaking up!! I agree the military is not a place to send ANYONE with a criminal background in hopes of they get on the right track. Prior to my son joining the military he had to go through a background check that include anything criminal; that rule should be applied to all.
People serving for our country do it because they are proud to serve the USA, not for an easy way out of jail.
Proud mother of a US Solider!
Elisa
ALL THOUGH WHAT HAPPENED TO YOU WAS A SAD AND NEVER SHOULD HAVE HAPPENED YOU CANNOT GROUP ALL CRIMINALS AND STREET CRIMINALS INTO ONE GROUP I CAME FROM A VERY VIOLENT AND DANGEROUS ABCKGROUND AND THE NAVY SAVED MY LIFE I THANK GOD EVERYDAY FOR THE SECOND CHANCE I WAS GIVEN IN THE NAVY. IN LIFE THERE ARE TWO ROADS SURE THEYCHOOSE THE WRONG ONE BUT NOT EVERYONE DOES. THE NAVY TAUGHT HONOR COMMITMENT AND COURAGE AND HOW TO BE A BETTER MAN FOR MY FAMILY AND I WILL ALWAYS BE THANKFUL FOR THAT. THERE WILL ALWAYS BE DIRTBAGS IN LIFE AND THEY WILL BE WEEDED OUT BUT FOR THE ONE PERSON THE NAVY SAVES THE HEADACHES ARE WORRTH IT. GO NAVY.
Shawn K,
I like (and agree with) your proposal, but the military would have to track these folks and evaluate them regularly - not sure there would be the requisit amount of integrity if they were shorthanded and had a few of them acting up (thinking about the star quarterback who has an on-campus "infraction" or the vehicle fleet that the motor officer claims is deployable, yet more than 25% cannot be driven).
Judges (and most recruiters) never stopped doing the "jail or the military" thing, but the brass stopped sanctioning and admitting it still happens.
Something like what you are suggesting is currently being done in a few prison systems . . . they require the gang member convicts to renounce their membership. There's been mixed reports of success, but when you're talking inmates, 5% is better than 0% any day of the week. I'm not sure that's a good success rate for the military to claim, though.
What do you think?
While that is an very unfortunate incident, I must disagree. People that have committed crimes, however, should not be in a regular kind of training. They should be in a longer, more intense training, with someone keeping an eye on them at all times. Not to just waltz in here and drop a link, but I went into this in some detail nearly 2 months ago, http://www.thattalldude.com/main...ilitary-
op.html
While there are some who simply shouldn't be in the military, for others it's exactly what they need.
Gangs have evolved to become what the Office of Juvenile Justice and Delinquency Prevention referred to (back in 2000) as "an increasingly significant social policy issue."
Gang members can be seen in various businesses, and are employed in many organizations in the public sector. A presence in each of these areas can cause subtle changes to the actions and activities of the gangs, though the gang mentality exists in them all. The question we need to consider is whether allegiance to a gang creates a problem with employment – specifically employment in the military.
What do you think?
http://gangfighters.blogspot.com...its-
really.html
I agree that Hard core gang members should not be in the military. I was Infantry (Army) and we already had some "DumbaXXes." Don't need more...bad for overall readiness. However, if there is a kid that is a "Wannabe" and not "hardcore." I can see them going. Not all these kids are throw aways. They need to be caught early and shown an alternatives, perferbly College...
I believe the gangsters should all be taken to a deserted island without weapons of any kind and left to fend for themselves. Then go back in 6 months or a year and whoever is left gets a free pass. Now that's a real "survivor" story, not this junk that pretends to have survivors on it. What a load!!
"Blanket parties" are still a part of military don’ts; it has nothing to do with people’s backgrounds. I served (USAF ‘76 –‘82), and saw the same in my unit to a guy who was not liked for whatever reasons and a group of his peers threw him a party to get him in line.
It wasn’t right but it happens, but those guys were “good, honorable citizens in their communities” who had enough of this “leader”(high school ROTC trained).
I have also seen the military turn these same punks into men and career military people; it works for some and not for others. We just need to let the military have a more “hands on” training program, like it was in the days that we served and not this panty waste style of today.
