|
|
|
>>the 'March for Free Expression' organised by various small extreme far-right groups
The MFE was organised by a couple of people, but primarily by Peter Risdon. None of the organisers had anything to do with far-right groups, you peon.
>>she was suspended for wearing the veil in the wake of Jack Straw's racist remarks about Muslim women who wear the veil refusing to integrate.
She was suspended because concern was expressed over her ability to perform her job adequately.
Honestly, if you want to run a 'vermin of the year' contest you have to do it yourself, it seems.
Publicansdecoy |
Homepage |
12.19.06 - 1:14 pm | #
|
|
Go away you sad little bigot
morbo |
Homepage |
12.19.06 - 1:46 pm | #
|
|
hey, like I said: not my wall, and I don't agree.
On the other hand, ribbing the SWP is tremendous fun. You guys take stuff too seriously...
el Tom |
Homepage |
12.19.06 - 6:48 pm | #
|
|
"She was suspended because concern was expressed over her ability to perform her job adequately."
Yes, and black men get stopped by police more often cos dey got da riddim.
tony |
Homepage |
12.20.06 - 4:58 am | #
|
|
Excellent Morbo. Really very considered response there. The MFE was organised by Peter Risdon. Unless you can provide some evidence that he is linked to far right groups (hint: You can't) then please withdraw your mindless allegation.
Publicansdecoy |
Homepage |
12.20.06 - 5:05 am | #
|
|
Yes, I see your point Tony. She was sacked as part of a zionist conspiracy.
Publicansdecoy |
Homepage |
12.20.06 - 5:29 am | #
|
|
publicans you're the bigot here, by suggesting that what a person does or doesn't wear is up to the state, the boss, the authorities (and only Muslim women as well)
quit it or you will get your comments edited.
morbo |
Homepage |
12.20.06 - 5:29 am | #
|
|
No Morbo, what I was trying to suggest is that employers have every right to criticise their employees if their conduct or their clothing inhibits their ability to their job properly. I work in an office. If I turned up wearing full bondage gear I would expect my employers to send me home immediately. It wouldn't have anything to do with racism, it's just about wanting to to make sure that their company is run well. So that is the point I'm trying ot make and I really, really disagree that makes me a bigot. Please would you engage with my arguments instead of repeating that nonsensical mantra and threatening me with editing my comments.
Publicansdecoy |
Homepage |
12.20.06 - 5:48 am | #
|
|
And I ask you again, please provide some evidence for your claim that the MFE was organised by far-right groups. Becausde it wasn't in the slightest.
Publicansdecoy |
Homepage |
12.20.06 - 5:49 am | #
|
|
Pubicdecoy - what a tosser.
1.Peter Risdon's anti-muslim rhetoric is virtually indistinguishable from that of the BNP. His personal web-site is obsessed with Islam and has advertised T-shirts with slogans such as "Viking jihad" and "Islam is a blast".
Speaking on his platform, sponsoring his campaign, and very much a part of his organisation are the more than far right Freedom Association. Now you check out the links pubicdecoy.
2. So after decades of women wearing the veil at work, and not one case of them being told it's a barrier to their work, we're now expected to believe that Aishah Azmi's sacking had nothing to do with Straw and Woollas's attacks. Perhaps it's just a coincidence. Perhaps it's just that the debate is overdue. Perhaps it's about time that surgeons, arc-welders, and sand-blasters were sacked for wearing masks at work.....or perhaps it's time that Pubicdecoy, Peter Risdon and their likes removed the very thin veils of liberalism that hide the Islamophobia within, and slither off to the nearest gutter to join their intellectual soul-mates in the BNP.
dig |
Homepage |
12.20.06 - 6:34 am | #
|
|
Dig, you appear to have a remarkable knowledge of me, considering I have no idea who you are. If you want to know what I actually think about Islamophobia, you could try reading my blog
http://publicansdecoy.livejourna...com/
436087.html
Or you could carry on spouting unsubstantiated nonsense, which appears ot be par for the course on this blog.
Also speaking at the MFE was the more tyhan NOT far right Peter Tatchell, Sayyida Rend Shakir and Terry Sanderson. But hey ho. let's ignore that eh? Risdon is not a far right group. The MFE was never associated with the BNP. Organisers specifically asked teh BNP to stay away.
The BNP also supports withdrawing troops from Iraq immediately. By your logic that must make them the intellectual soulmates of the SWP.
Publicansdecoy |
Homepage |
12.20.06 - 6:43 am | #
|
|
can i just put up my nomination, without arguing with fools.
jack straw
whyfor? http://extremefool.blogspot.com/...en-
cheated.html
steffaction |
Homepage |
12.20.06 - 7:24 am | #
|
|
Oooh...touched a pubic nerve have I?
My knowledge of you is not at all 'remarkable'. It is informed by
a)your desire to see young working class Muslims punished for following their faith, and
b)your support for a march whose only real purpose was Muslim-bashing.
...and I did try reading your blog. I won't make the same mistake again.
dig |
Homepage |
12.20.06 - 7:29 am | #
|
|
What the hell is a pubic nerve? Are you 12 years old or something?
When the hell have I ever expressed a desire to see young working class muslims punished for following their faith? This is bonkers. I might as well try and debate with a Tweenie.
Publicansdecoy |
Homepage |
12.20.06 - 7:30 am | #
|
|
"On the other hand, ribbing the SWP is tremendous fun".
A vicarious thrill: you haven't so much as even scored a glancing blow off anyone on this blog or any other blog this year.
"You guys take stuff too seriously..."
Yes, the Labour 'left' are a bunch of jokers.
Roobin |
Homepage |
12.20.06 - 7:33 am | #
|
|
"The MFE was organised by a couple of people, but primarily by Peter Risdon. None of the organisers had anything to do with far-right groups, you peon".
Firstly, a peon is a bondsman, a slave, so you don't score highly for pc/leftiness there. Secondly, correct me if I'm incorrect, as well as the disgusting far-right sentiment OF the demo, there was a large (for the size of the demo, you are a puny bunch after all) far right presence ON the demo.
"She was suspended because concern was expressed over her ability to perform her job adequately".
No she wasn't. Just rewriting facts and saying them with enough conviction doesn't make them true. Apart from all the other very good point Dig has made (don't forget I can't see your face OR hear your voice) Aishah Azmi did not actually wear the veil in front of her students, only male staff.
Roobin |
Homepage |
12.20.06 - 7:39 am | #
|
|
Whoever drew up this list is in dire need of some elementary political education. I assume Bush and Blair are missing because they would win by such a margin as to spoil the competition, but some of the other candidates are decidedly odd:
The woman who interviewed George Galloway on Sky News:
Well, I'm sure her career has advanced by leaps and bounds since that interview. More likely she's already retraining. Not a lot of fun shooting at targets who are already dead.
The AWL:
You just add to their credibility. Ignore them.
Thatcher:
Don't be impatient. She may be in pain or profound emotional distress.
That woman doesn't deserve a quick easy death.
Flintoff:
At least he tries to bowl out his opponents, unlike Ashley Giles, who never seems to have imagined that bowling was about taking wickets. If however it can be shown that Flintoff was complicit in the non-selection of Panesar, then he should be back on the list.
NUS !!!!!
You shouldn't have bunked off from that new members' school. You don't mean the NUS, you mean the NUS BUREAUCRACY. They may indeed be all that you say, but do you really want millions of students to have no union organisation. You seem to be following in the footsteps of G Munis.
Ian Birchall |
12.20.06 - 7:50 am | #
|
|
Hi Roobin, thanks for your rather more civilised comments. Peon was a throaway word, I meant nothing much by it. Sorry for any offence caused, but then I would argue that it's such an archaic term as to be pretty meaningless without heading to dictionary.com. I just liked the way it sounded.
I was at the MFE. Were you? I heard no far-right sentiment at the demo. I saw no far-right presence at the demo.
I don't think I'm perfect or anything. I'm a fairly nice, normal person who gets upset by racism and illiberalness, much like you I suspect. I'm not a bad person, really I'm not!
Re: Azmi, we're not communicating face to face, so quite obviously it's not fair to compare her job with the conversation we're having here.
headfield school said it suspended Ms Azmi because the children found it hard to understand her during lessons. An employment tribunal ruled that religious discrimination did not take place. Having thought about it, and read a lot about the case, I agree with that argument myself. Now, you may disagree with m, but please don't try to suggest I'm interested in punishing Muslims for following their faith or something like that. That's both wilfully untrue and offensive.
Publicansdecoy |
Homepage |
12.20.06 - 7:52 am | #
|
|
Now everyone's scorin' off you!
Roobin |
Homepage |
12.20.06 - 7:53 am | #
|
|
"I assume Bush and Blair are missing because they would win by such a margin as to spoil the competition..."
Git is hardly an adequate description though. Preening Mass Murderer of the Year maybe.
Roobin |
Homepage |
12.20.06 - 7:56 am | #
|
|
I'm dealing drugs?
Publicansdecoy |
Homepage |
12.20.06 - 8:06 am | #
|
|
I don't want this to get sidetracked, however,:
"RE Azmi, we're not communicating face to face, so quite obviously it's not fair to compare her job with the conversation we're having here".
No, the point is she did not wear the veil infront of her pupils. She didn't. The end.
Even if she did it is a moot point how difficult it makes life for other people around her. Hence the various other examples about 'restricted' forms of communication.
Finally, only a fool or a knave could have failed to notice the background this was set in, of powerful, white politicians selling their views to right-wing tabloids and a government desperate to divert attention away from its appalling war record, in order to get on in the world: hence this verbal pogrom was driven by lower-level ministers. All of this happened AFTER Blair announced he was stepping down.
Now, which one are you voting for?
Roobin |
Homepage |
12.20.06 - 8:08 am | #
|
|
So the school lied then? The BBC continues to report that she wore it while teaching.
Not that i want to pay too much attention to the colour of someone's skin but since it concerns you Ms Azmi's brown MP Shahid Malik decribed the tribunal ruling as "quite clearly a victory for common sense"
I voted for the cream eggs dude. I left a link to this poll on my journal as well, because I'm nice like that.
Publicansdecoy |
Homepage |
12.20.06 - 8:17 am | #
|
|
So the school lied then? The BBC continues to report that she wore it while teaching.
Not that i want to pay too much attention to the colour of someone's skin but since it concerns you Ms Azmi's brown MP Shahid Malik decribed the tribunal ruling as "quite clearly a victory for common sense"
I voted for the cream eggs dude. I left a link to this poll on my journal as well, because I'm nice like that.
Publicansdecoy |
Homepage |
12.20.06 - 8:17 am | #
|
|
"So the school lied then? The BBC continues to report that she wore it while teaching".
They both might well. The BBC was the first to take up the phrase "drift back to work", given to media outlets to use by the government at the time.
"Not that i want to pay too much attention to the colour of someone's skin but since it concerns you Ms Azmi's brown MP Shahid Malik decribed the tribunal ruling as "quite clearly a victory for common sense"".
And Condaleeza Rice was the architect of a war killing hundreds of thousands of brownskinned women in the middle east...
Roobin |
Homepage |
12.20.06 - 8:21 am | #
|
|
Precisely, so lets not focus too much on skin colour.
Publicansdecoy |
Homepage |
12.20.06 - 8:24 am | #
|
|
But you were the first person to mention skin colour. Now you admonish 'us' not too focus on it 'too' much.
Slippery character. I've always thought it.
worraller |
12.20.06 - 8:35 am | #
|
|
Er, was I? I've just looked back through the comments, and I only mentioned it in response to Roobin banging on about "powerful, white politicians".
Publicansdecoy |
Homepage |
12.20.06 - 8:38 am | #
|
|
Yes, you were. I don't think anyone would doubt that the powerful white politicians featured in the poll have used Islamophobia for political advantage - hoping to entice the support of Islamophobes.
Or are you arguing the BNP line that describing power relations as they actually exist, and the means used to enforce them, including Islamophic racism, is somehow 'anti-white racism'?
worraller |
12.20.06 - 8:44 am | #
|
|
No (and by the way we ARE getting sidetracked), Condaleeza Rice sits atop an institutionally racist state system, which launches wars that a justified with a racist war of ideology, under the title of islamofacism (yawn)... and yet she's black. The point being (and I hope you are just PLAYING at being stupid) black and asian people can be used as tools of a racist system.
And, while I'm being picky I've used the phrase "powerful, white politicians" once. That hardly makes a repetitive screed. Hardly "banging on". Colouring the debate with commentary, another rhetorical trick!
Roobin |
Homepage |
12.20.06 - 8:51 am | #
|
|
Why mention that they were white in the first place? I simply noted that it wasn't only white politicians who backed the school's stance, anyway.
Yes, we are getting sidetracked, but isn't that what comments boxes are for, to allow discussion to meander about?
Clearly the original post wasn;t tryint co colour the debate with commentary at all, was it? oh no!
Again, the organisers of the MFE were not far right groups. And again, Ms Azmi was not sacked for being a Muslim. Those are my opinions, which I believe are entirely borne out by facts. You're more than welcome to disagree with m, but if you can only do it with personal insults and wilful misrepresentation of what I said, then you'll forgive me if I don't take you very seriously. You're seeing agendas and so on when they aren't there. I'm just a bored office worker looking to procrastinate a bit.
I only bloody commented here in the first place because I've been running an 'Arsehole of the year' contest on my own blog for the last couple of years, and was amused to see someone had had the same idea as me. Obviously though, I think my contest is a bit better. I've spun it out over several rounds of voting, and I think we got a broder range of contestants. Raher than just people hated by Respect, we've had nominations for Mugabe, Ahmadinejad, Galloway, Blair, Bush, Rumsefeld and Bono. All the best with your contest though chaps. It's a larf, innit.
Publicansdecoy |
Homepage |
12.20.06 - 9:19 am | #
|
|
Wot, no Harry's Place?
chjh |
12.20.06 - 9:20 am | #
|
|
Do we vote here, or am I missing something???
How can it be anything *other* than the BNP?
Rosa Lichtenstein |
Homepage |
12.20.06 - 9:26 am | #
|
|
Finally! Someone put the larrffin stock that is the NUS up.Buncha careerist parasites... and i don't even get a discount on anything useful!
Why are Tommie Cruise & Katie Holmes not up there?
toomanykoftes |
12.20.06 - 9:52 am | #
|
|
OMG Mike W ...iz u 4 real???
toomanykoftes |
12.20.06 - 9:53 am | #
|
|
Sheridan for putting vanity before politics and deciding to perjurer himself.
He never expected his best mans speech to surface.
Tam |
12.20.06 - 1:20 pm | #
|
|
My only serious objections to your shortlist are the misplaced apostrophes in "who's" and "it's". And I think Blunkett should be included for his nauseous whining and above all boring self-justifications. Blair is rightly omitted as lower than vermin; and was best described by the late great Hunter S Thompson shortly before he committed suicide as "the simpering whore to the brainless ape in the White House".
Robedrt Crick |
12.20.06 - 1:52 pm | #
|
|
Peter Tatchell is accusing Muslims of being anti-gay? Wow! However did he come to that crazy conclusion? He must be seriously mentally ill.
No, really. How did he come to think that? I just can't understand. Seriously. I truly can't.
No, honestly.
Paul Christopher |
12.20.06 - 1:54 pm | #
|
|
Da well gee Paul, which muslims might not be anti gay? perhaps gay muslims for a start and..oh..yes the other non gay muslims that da don't happen to be anti gay.
Your understanding of Islam is breathtaking.
Victor |
12.20.06 - 2:23 pm | #
|
|
Once more and that's it!
"Why mention that they were white in the first place? I simply noted that it wasn't only white politicians who backed the school's stance, anyway".
I was pointing out that racism is not a question of personality but a systemic problem. However, someone who (I gather) believes they are some kind of leftie, should find some twinkling of a shadow of a thought that there's something wrong with middle-aged, white, male, high-powered politicians deigning to tell muslim women in Britain how they should dress and how they should observe their religion. If you've jumbled up david with goliath you're in trouble.
"Again, the organisers of the MFE were not far right groups."
The demonstration was against the rights of an oppressed minority to speak out for itself. That is not in any sense left-wing. The line put by the demonstration won support from and gave comfort to those, like the BNP, who would go one step further, and actively harm, disperse and destroy that minority.
"Ms Azmi was not sacked for being a Muslim".
Ms Azmi is a muslim. She was sacked for asking to be able to observe what she felt was one of her religious duties at work. She wanted to wear her veil when men were present in her classroom, NOT simply in the classroom at all times. She was sacked at a time when the right-wing press and government ministers were verbally attacking islam in Britain i.e. when there was an agenda clearly being pushed by the political elite in this country.
Either you hadn't noticed this or you are, as Morbo pointed out, a sad bigot (there's more than one way to skin 'em, Morbs').
"Yes, we are getting sidetracked, but isn't that what comments boxes are for, to allow discussion to meander about?"
Not here, old bean.
Roobin |
Homepage |
12.20.06 - 2:55 pm | #
|
|
"Ricky Gervais
Is now a pompous hollywood cretin soaking up the glamour and lifestyle just because of The Office, which everyone is bored of now anyway. Spawned shitty American style version."
Bollocks, the American version stands in its own right as an excellent comedy. Is Mark Steel the only trot wih a sense of humour? 
Btw, you got it totally wrong about the Sheridan vs SSP. So many people fucked over for one person's narcissism. Sad.
Darren |
Homepage |
12.20.06 - 2:56 pm | #
|
|
"Bollocks, the American version stands in its own right as an excellent comedy."
Richard Gervais was my suggestion. I wanted a few slightly inappropriate entries there. If I'd've got them in in time Zara Phillips, Ellen McArthur and Ray from Z-Factor would've been in there as well.
"Is Mark Steel the only trot wih a sense of humour?"
I liked his book but I wasn't aware he was funny. He always seems to die on his arse whenever he's on Mock The Week or Have I Got News For You.
"Btw, you got it totally wrong about the Sheridan vs SSP. So many people fucked over for one person's narcissism".
My experience of the SSP is the "Red Bloc", that fifty strong drop in the ocean during the MPH demo in Edinburgh. That and the Tommy Sheridan effigy sums up my entire experience of them and everything I've heard about them.
Roobin |
Homepage |
12.20.06 - 3:13 pm | #
|
|
The two worst episodes of the American version of The Office was the pilot, which was a direct lift from a British episode and suffered accordingly, and a recent episode which was in fact written by Gervais and Merchant.
I once thought like you, but I got over it. You will too. 
"the effigy"?
I think that is a bit of an overstatement. A few pissed up teenagers at a gettaway hardly qualifies as an re-enactment the Whicker Man.
"everything I've heard about them."
I could tell a few shitty stories about SWP members, both first hand and second hand. Doesn't make them all arseholes, does it? Does it . . .?
Btw, you're wrong about Steel as well. 'Reasons to be Cheerful' is a brilliant book. I've got a soft spot for 'It's Not A Runner Bean'.
Darren |
Homepage |
12.20.06 - 3:25 pm | #
|
|
"I could tell a few shitty stories about SWP members, both first hand and second hand. Doesn't make them all arseholes, does it? Does it . . .?"
I'm sure you could. I'm referring mostly to my experience of the SSP as an organisation, which was the counter-G8 demonstrations. The SSP did not understand what was happening and chose to retreat into redflagwaving. I suppose my other experience has been reading The Voice, which seemed to be typical of the type of newspaper SSP model organisations produce, articles were either a bad compromise or part of a pitched battle between platforms. It wasn't a fighting paper.
Roobin |
Homepage |
12.20.06 - 3:32 pm | #
|
|
Joe:
"The only time you Trot scum did any work was when Stalin had you digging the White Sea canal..."
I work full time (and I am not 'middle class'), and have done so for several decades, and I am a trot.
So, you can get stuffed.
Rosa Lichtenstein |
Homepage |
12.20.06 - 6:20 pm | #
|
|
Ah various detritus has washed up here 
morbo |
Homepage |
12.20.06 - 6:50 pm | #
|
|
Morbo, that is no way to speak of Rosa L.
S/he can't help being a posh trot.
Darren |
Homepage |
12.20.06 - 7:30 pm | #
|
|
Morbo, that is no way to speak of Rosa L.
S/he can't help being a posh trot.
Darren |
Homepage |
12.20.06 - 7:30 pm | #
|
|
Reid gets my vote, he's fucking scary. Very close between him and Straw though...
If you don't think the SSP are sectarian idiots, have a look at their site or read their paper and count the number of times Solidarity or Sheridan are referred to in a derogatory manner. Look on their forums or talk to their members, and you'll see and hear both Solidarity and Respect slandered HP-style at every opportunity.
Then do the same with Solidarity's site. Very little reference is made to the SSP, in fact they have explicitly supported them on at least one occasion. I moved to Scotland the week after the split, wasn't sure who to support but the disgraceful actions of the SSP have made the decision for me.
JonoB |
12.20.06 - 7:46 pm | #
|
|
it does not matter which way you vote either way you're planet is doomed, DOOMED!
kodos |
Homepage |
12.20.06 - 10:46 pm | #
|
|
Hey Roobin, again, thanks for the polite reply.
I don't actually believe myself to be some kind of leftie. I'd call myself a liberal, with a small l. I variously get shouted at for being too left wing or too right wing, depending on who I'm talking to. That's alright though, I'm more interested in the liberal/authoritarian axis than the left/right one.
"aged, white, male, high-powered politicians deigning to tell muslim women in Britain how they should dress and how they should observe their religion"
Except he did no such thing. He specifically didn't TELL anyone to do anything.
"The demonstration was against the rights of an oppressed minority to speak out for itself"
It really wasn't, you know. Again, can I ask you, were you actually there yourself? The demonstration was about defending the freedom of speech of writers, artists and thinkers. People who find themselves facing death threats simply for drawing a cartoon or putting on a play. Nobody I saw or spoke to at the demo was in the slightest interested in *harming* anyone.
"She was sacked for asking to be able to observe what she felt was one of her religious duties at work"
My only response to this would be to say that I don't think people should have unlimited freedoms to do whatever they want at work, because it is their religion. I might enjoy shooting people in the face, and claim that it is OK because it's my religion and that if you tell me I can;t you're discriminating against me. It's an extreme example, sure, but my point is religious freedoms aren;t limitless simply because they relate to religion. Overall, i think an employer has the right to ensure that their employees are acting appropriately at their job. Ms Azmi's employers felt she was not doing tht, and that this was having a detrimental effect on the children's education.
Oh well, off to a meeting now. I'll be back at lunch if you do fancy continuing the discussion.
Publicansdecoy |
Homepage |
12.21.06 - 4:33 am | #
|
|
I love Galloway's shouting!
steffaction |
Homepage |
12.21.06 - 8:46 am | #
|
|
"I'll be back at lunch if you do fancy continuing the discussion".
Not really, except that:
"I might enjoy shooting people in the face, and claim that it is OK because it's my religion..."
Is a bit desperate. C'mon. I tried to start a cult at university. We were called the Frizbeetarians. We worshiped discs and disc-shaped objects. That's much less morbid and much more fun.
Roobin |
Homepage |
12.21.06 - 9:57 am | #
|
|
No argument from me there, Roobin. We went around pretending to be 'assassins' at uni, which basically meant we shot each other with water pistols a lot.
I can't understand why they wanted to phase out student grants, I really can't.
Publicansdecoy |
Homepage |
12.21.06 - 10:47 am | #
|
|
Have I got this right? People who question Islam as a religion, and wonder for example what the veil has to say about its view of both male and female sexuality, gender roles and power relations, are to be dismissed as "Islamophobes"? If I question Christianity as a religion, does the mean I hate all Christians and that I'm a "Christianophobe"? In neither case has it got anything to do with race.
How do you square defence of the cultural and religious practices of most Muslims with being "left wing"?
Honestly Puzzled |
12.21.06 - 3:24 pm | #
|
|
Well, you seem to have managed to include everyone other than yourself on the list, and you've included people, sorry "sectarian gits", from all parties apart from your own (and the Lib Dems). Nice! Don't you ever worry that you'll get lonely, seeing as you hate everyone, apart from yourself, obviously, and your avowedly non-sectarian mates?
Llygoden Fach |
12.21.06 - 3:49 pm | #
|
|
Billions of men, presumably.
Honestly Puzzled |
12.21.06 - 4:10 pm | #
|
|
Please can someone ban that zionist lizard "honestly puzzled". Islam has liberated women around the world and throughout the ages. It has brought equality with men, circumsision has brought Muslims closer to God through his ummah.
usefull idiot kaafir |
12.21.06 - 5:57 pm | #
|
|
Darren:
"S/he can't help being a posh trot."
Eh?
How do you work *that* out?
Not only am I not 'posh', and never have been, if ever I were, I'd commit suicide fast by attempting to read Hegel's 'Logic'.
Rosa Lichtenstein |
Homepage |
12.21.06 - 6:55 pm | #
|
|
Congratulations to 'honestly puzzled' for winning the 'Most disingenuous name since New Labour adopted New and retained Labour' award.
Most of these posts (his included) miss the point, which is that Christianity (along with all other religions save Islam) is not under sustained attack from establishment politicians and their apologists. Nor is their any recognition here of the purpose of the attacks at this moment in time. Just as past Empire justified itself by dehumanising Africans, so today's warmongers attempt to justify the deaths of hundreds of thousands of Muslims in their disastrous and murderous imperial adventures by demonising the entire religion. This is an onslaught backed up mercilessly by both the 'gutter' and 'respectable' press on a daily basis.
Would Jack Straw attack Hassidic Jews for making a 'visible statement of separation and difference?
If Phil Woolas was admitted to surgery would he demand that the surgeons should remove their masks in order that they can communicate more effectively?
Has Blair ever spoken out against the Anglican and Catholic Bishops who actively oppose sexual freedom?
Would the News of the World dare to attempt to publish a page on what Britain would be like under Talmudic law?
When any of the above happen, which they won't, I will start to believe that this is about questioning religion rather than attacking one particular religion.
dig |
Homepage |
12.22.06 - 4:10 am | #
|
|
oops! ... did I say News of the World...of course I meant the Daily Sturmer.
dig |
Homepage |
12.22.06 - 6:35 am | #
|
|
The SWP calling anyone sectarian is the best Xmas present anyone could have had this year.
Paul |
12.22.06 - 10:15 am | #
|
|
I was also cheered by the use of the term Zionist in such a bolshevik tought guy way. You people are jsut far out. Come on let's stick the boot into these bloody Israel loving scum. Let the Arab masses rise and give these bastard settlers a bloody nose. No let them drive the Zionist-racists into the sea. Now!
And the think Cliff used to back two states.
Paul |
12.22.06 - 10:19 am | #
|
|
I was also cheered by the use of the term Zionist in such a bolshevik tought guy way. You people are jsut far out. Come on let's stick the boot into these bloody Israel loving scum. Let the Arab masses rise and give these bastard settlers a bloody nose. No let them drive the Zionist-racists into the sea. Now!
And the think Cliff used to back two states.
Paul |
12.22.06 - 10:19 am | #
|
|
Roobinski
I think I might have scored on on Lenin's tomnb though. This place isn't really worth it. Like was said above, it's like trying to debate a tweenie. Waste of time.
My comment was actually adressed to Morbo re. the 'troops into Iran' poster that my friend made out of it's SWP counterpart.
el tom |
Homepage |
12.22.06 - 10:54 am | #
|
|
"The sect sees the justification for its existence and its "point of honour"--not in what it has in common with the class movement but in the particular shibboleth which distinguishes it from it."
Karl Marx
..In the AWL's case, support for imperialism and colonialism among other things.
Which is why it doesn't surprise us that the SWP is playing a key role in unity initiatives like STWC, Fighting Unions, Unite against Fascism, Respect etc., while the AWL's presence in all of these is restricted to a few individuals carping from the relative safety of a (highly sectarian) web-site. They must be the only organisation on earth that wanted to march separately from the 2 million others on the biggest demo in British history.
And if you're still not convinced, I set you this festive challenge, based on a little research of the Socialist Worker and AWL websites.
...Find the articles in Socialist Worker that attack other left organisations,(you'll find one, more than justified, about the AWL's disgusting publication of islamophobic cartoons that no other organisation in Britain save the BNP would touch with a bargepole)
...then compare the virtual absence of these with the sectarian trash that the AWL incessantly publishes against others on the left.
...When you have finished reading all these articles, reply here to tell us all how sectarian the SWP and the rest of the left (except the AWL) are. I look forward to your reply, on completion of this task, sometime around Christmas 2009 (providing you are a fast reader).
dig |
Homepage |
12.22.06 - 1:01 pm | #
|
|
Nice response, Dig; I was about to say something similar -- but you put it far better!
Rosa Lichtenstein |
Homepage |
12.22.06 - 4:41 pm | #
|
|
Re: Fausto Bertinotti
Bertinotti's an ex-Stalinist. Now, Stalin was an evil man and it's a pity so many good socialists fell for Stalinism. Nevertheless, the Italian Communists managed to become a mass party and win more working class people to the cause of socialism than the SWP ever will. So maybe, just maybe, Fausto knows some things you guys ought to know?
Chris Baldwin |
12.22.06 - 4:51 pm | #
|
|
"Whoever drew up this list is in dire need of some elementary political education."
This is a comment from a long (very long) standing leading member of the SWP. (Or someone using that name doing a plausible act.)
If it's the first, be embarrassed; if it's the second, you'll feel alright I guess, or be embarrassed - your choice.
A truly shit list of candidates for 'Vermin of the Year'.
Happy Xmas.
(PS: I think your date/timer is wrong, if not faulty.)
Pinkie |
12.22.06 - 5:37 pm | #
|
|
Baldwin, perhaps he shouldn't prance about voting to send troops to Afghanistan if he wanted to win people to socialism???
morbo |
Homepage |
12.22.06 - 6:25 pm | #
|
|
Ignore everything I say
Ignore Jim Denham |
12.22.06 - 9:15 pm | #
|
|
Attacking other people's ideas is not sectarian? Tell that to Marx and the rest.
The SWP just do it in private, or use thugs to intimidate their opponents.
Paul |
12.23.06 - 4:39 am | #
|
|
"Attacking other people's ideas is not sectarian? Tell that to Marx and the rest."
I know the competition is tough, but can I nominate the above for 'most ignorant comment of the year'
The phrase 'Philosophers have only interpreted the world' does spring rather easily to mind.
I leave you with this little Xmas quiz.
1. Sort the following words into 3 pairs:
Dog
polemic
woof
car
drive
Marx
2. Match the Authors to their books
Enid Blyton
The Poverty of Philosophy
William Shakespeare
Karl Marx
Hamlet
Noddy goes Shopping
(Tricky, isn't it Paul?)
dig |
Homepage |
12.23.06 - 7:54 am | #
|
|
There's plenty of competition for that award just in this thread dig, or we could just catalog everything jim denham says and give him an award, check out the latest one in the post on the Ipswich murders
morbo |
Homepage |
12.23.06 - 8:08 am | #
|
|
Dig gets this year's "Stupid comment patrol on Scary Door" - well done Dig, you've done a lot to service the community 
morbo |
Homepage |
12.23.06 - 8:09 am | #
|
|
The truth is that no-one is interested in Denham's monomoniacal obsession with all things SWP. He is compelled to write this trash here because (thankfully, but unsurprisingly) no-one can be arsed to discuss this mania on his own blog.
We shouldn't blame him for the dearth of originality, nor the twisted irrationality of his comments, rather we should pity him. His condition is clearly chronic, and I sense that constant rejection is causing further complications to set in.
dig |
Homepage |
12.23.06 - 9:14 am | #
|
|
Diagnosis confirmed. See above
dig |
Homepage |
12.23.06 - 10:51 am | #
|
|
Blah blah blah
Paul |
12.23.06 - 6:38 pm | #
|
|
Blah blah blah
GG |
12.24.06 - 7:45 am | #
|
|
I see now, I added a not which rather confused you.
It is SWP rigeur to denounce others in private and call political debate on the far left sectarian.
Paul |
12.24.06 - 12:27 pm | #
|
|
It is SWP rigeur to denounce others in private and call political debate on the far left sectarian.
It's "SWP rigeur" (eh?) to rigorously ignore the fragments of the British far left for the very good reason that (with some exceptions) have less significance than a fart in the phonebox they comfortably fit into. Sorry and all that.
John Reid, obviously.
Rosmer |
12.24.06 - 1:31 pm | #
|
|
Hey Rosmer,
I'm a big chicken, hear me cluck
Cluck
Cluck
Cluck
Cluck
Seriously I have nothing to say and anything I do say makes no sense at all and verges on the insane and idiotic.
Paul |
12.24.06 - 4:29 pm | #
|
|
Oh dear. Why won' they talk to me?
Paul |
12.25.06 - 8:15 pm | #
|
|
"The headline suggests that the Freedom of Expression rally was in reality a British National Party rally. The truth is that it was organised by a group of pro-democracy bloggers who solicited support for a perfectly reasonable statement supporting the universal right to free expression. The BNP, including their thinly disguised front-group, Civil Liberty, were told in no uncertain terms right from the start that they were unwelcome and unwanted."
The Weekly Worker http://www.cpgb.org.uk/worker/61...st%
20Action.htm
Remember the Party sees all, the Party knows all...The CPGB too favours free expression. 'There will be no censorship. There must be the right of expression and discussion of all topics.' (Draft programme) It doesn't like religion much either. Something to do with the writings of guys called Marx, Engels, Lenin. So you think you're the Left, do you? How quaint, how diverting. Vermin? I'm just a pussy-cat at heart.
Ysabel Howard |
Homepage |
12.25.06 - 11:49 pm | #
|
|
Please delete the above posts attributed to me.
Paul |
12.26.06 - 4:50 am | #
|
|
Commenting by HaloScan
|