Mom, is "this is insane" too strong a reaction? Why would anyone even THINK about our boys raping Palestinian women?
This is perfectly representative of what is going on in the sociology faculties in
Israel.
They are really really stupid, and extremely anti-Semitic.Ooops - redundancy alert...
Stunning.
There are no words.
Mother, this is a bizarre post. Why do Israeli soldiers not rape? Why do American GIs not rape. Being a soldier does not constitute being a criminal.
Also you had what sounded like a gossipy post weeks ago about the IBL having problems and you thought it time for you to spread neative. Why are you not supporting something which has the potential to be so positive and was such a great thing last summer rather than spreading possibly true and possibly not things? Cmon.. what do they teach you in shul!
Poor girl! She needs phsychiatrist! Urgently! Unfortunately,she is not the only one. What is going on in our higher school? Maybe there is a serious virus? And I know the name of this virus! Everybody knows!
Oh! Now I understand why israeli soldiers do not eat palestinian children! This is because they are rasists! Shame on them!
Abba, the researcher's conclusion was bizarre, and offensive, especially to this mother of future soldiers.
Regarding the IBL, I am waiting for you to send me additional information. No matter how much you enjoy their games, the IBL is a business like any other.
This is utterly illogical. It has been proven time and again that when soldiers rape, they often do so because they view the enemy as less than human and therefore not subject to the same rules of civilization those soldiers normally hold themselves to. So to argue that Israeli soldiers do *not* rape for exactly those same reasons makes no sense at all. Bizarre.
"published by the Hebrew University's Shein Center for Social Studies"
i could see living in israel and paying crazy taxes thinking some of it goes to good jewish causes. but for this?
praise for not raping them? I guess it is such a basic thing to do that you get praised for not doing it.
Of course, this piece of work deserved a satire - and now it has it:
http://israelisatirelab.blogspot...ew-
israeli.html
I now know that my water company has a conspiracy going because I haven't drowned myself, just like that electric co. because I haven't electricuted anyone lately.
Where does one get grants to write stuff like this ?
I also have a theory that the earth is still flat
Wow. I'm in the U.S., just read this story. I'm stunned. Do your 'professors' realize that their own nation is surrounded by Islamic enemies, who don't give a damn about how much they appease them? I'm utterley stunned and genuinley saddened that you have traitors in your midst while surrounded as you all are. Thank God you have a kick ass military!
What is the MOST stunning about this is that they contradict their own study!! The quote you posted shows they are wrong - "Jews identify themselves as non-rapists" - and they wrote it!
I have a headache, now....
On Friday night I asked my husband if he read that story in Makor (we get it on Fridays) and before I could even finish the sentence he asked "About rape?"
Unbelievable. No, scratch that. After living here all these years, I find it all too believable that this garbage is considered true academia that should be rewarded with a prize. I'm so ashamed.
I'm still sort of blinking on this one, even after seeing it posted elsewhere.
Lack of rape indicates, among other things, good discipline, and a civilian and military culture that would see rape as inappropriate. Also, I would suspect, the fact that there is no occupation in the conventional sense, this is a conflict limited to border control and periodic goal-oriented raids and attacks.
The population increase thing is ridiculous. To be extremely crude, I think even the most stupid and criminally inclined of soldiers can work out that Palestinian women can probably get pregnant with their husbands just fine.
I daresay the women of Bosnia would have preferred it if Serbs had identified themselves culturally by not raping. This is just a guess.
And I am a tad offended that "Nitzan notes that the Israeli army is the only one not to commit mass rapes when it occupies another country." I am not going to say that the U.S. military has a perfectly spotless record when it comes to sexual abuse, but 'mass rapes' we don't do.
Ghhhhaahhhh.
Societies get into trouble when they start believing myths, such as the conclusions of the Nitzan paper. The only award such trash is worthy of is the IgNobel prize, and even that is debatable.
I am distributing it here:
http://www.eussner.net/schaf_200...1_14-41-
03.html
Scheisse schwemmt nach oben. Hebraeer-Weisheit. Sociologist Uncovers New Israeli Abomination: IDF Soldiers Not Raping Arab Women! By satiricohen, Israeli Satire Laboratory, December 23, 2007
http://tinyurl.com/2ender
Vergewaltigungssoziologie. Lizas Welt, 28. Dezember 2007
http://lizaswelt.blogspot.com/
20...soziologie.html
The real reason Israeli soldiers don't rape Palestinian women. A Mother in Israel, December 21, 2007
http://tinyurl.com/3au6zq
That woman Tal Nitzan needs serious help, a regular stationary psychatric place would be the best.
Sorry, but this woman must be insane. Maybe she's one of the poor and ill who wish to be raped (yes, that exists...)
to rape a person means to have sexual intercourse with a person against their will. Dehumanise means to deprive of positive human qualities. Therefore, by raping someone you are not dehumanising them as it is not possible to rape something that is not human.
However late I may be with my comment, I cannot allow “Chubby’s” comment to go unanswered, even though Chubby’s psychotic logic shames itself, without help from anyone else. Still, where Chubby says, “...as it is not possible to rape something that is not human” begs a point worth repeating here— that this is the mind set of the dehumanizer in all of history; certainly it was present during the Holocaust, but used to dehumanize Jews and rationalize the crimes of the Third Reich. Substitute rape with any of the favorite Nazi atrocities (besides rape)—occupation of land and theft of property, torture, starvation, mass slaughter, genocide. This notion of the Other as “not human” is the essential character of evil. And it was given permission by ordinary Germans through their silence.
As for the general subject, the question as to why Israeli soldiers do not rape Palestinian women misses the elephant in the room—the question should be, why are Israeli soldiers in a position to rape Palestinian women in the first place? For that matter, why do Israeli soldiers assist in the occupation of Palestinian land, the theft of Palestinian territory, the bulldozing of Palestinian homes, and what is tantamount to genocide (Gaza, etc.)?
http://www.btselem.org/english/
A...vity_Report.asp
http://www.countercurrents.org/
p...pappe280108.htm
Those are the larger questions. Why the blind and deaf denial of such crimes among some in Israel? Could it be the answer is that these things are not happening, because it is not possible to do them to “something that is not human”?
—L’eau, in America
http://www.thomasinapaine.blogspot.com/
L'eau, I agree that Chubby's comment doesn't make sense. As for the rest of your comment, it's hard to have a dialogue with someone who believes that Israel's policies are "tantamount to genocide."
Mother in Israel, Yes. I understand. You disagree. You have a different perspective, given that you are closer to the situation. I am seeing from a distance, and so my judgment may seem intemperate.
So, I am at a loss for one word to describe it. I know I am not saying Genocide with a capital G, as one does not necessarily mean THE Holocaust, when using the word holocaust. That is, a genocide need not mean six million dead, nor need to use methods and intents for killing and eradication as ghoulishly atrocious as those used by the German Nazis, for the word genocide to apply. It could be a sudden displacement, where people are forced off their land, and their homes bulldozed to make way for settlements; or it could be passive, or determinedly incremental over time, where it becomes impossible for people to make a living, or to take their babies to the hospital, or to find food and water; or move freely from place to place, or to be free of harassment, or be safe in their homes and neighborhoods, absent a hostile, military presence; or to have a home that is something other than a refugee camp —to be free of the thousand and one indignities and humiliations that their second-class status inflicts upon them— but most of all to stay alive, not to be “extra-judicially executed” by soldiers.
I don’t mean to be rude, but, I have to wait until six million are starving or dead, before I can call it genocide?
Whatever we call it, it seems to me those policies can never bring peace and security to the region, just as America’s war on Iraq is a crime against humanity —a useless, illegal (and fraudulent) response to 9-11— and will only create more desperation, more desire for revenge. Perhaps a better word is folly.
None of this is meant to accuse you, personally, of anything. And I realize it's a complex subject.
With respect,
—L’eau
www.thomasinapaine.blogspot.com
I know I'm coming late to the party, but I want to add my agreement with L'eau and you in saying how ridiculous I think this study is. Rape *is* a dehumanizing experience, and Nitzan's research only reminds me that people don't really understand rape. It's not about sex or attraction. It's about subjugation and conquest. It's been a while since I've read "Against Our Will," but from what I remember rape by soldiers is pretty inevitable and also rarely reported. Is it possible that Nitzan's premise isn't true to begin with? Even under the best of circumstances (ie, not war), rape is underreported. And do you think one would be more or less likely to report her rape if she comes from a culture where women are most valued for their purity? (See Virginius killing his daughter or Titus Andronicus from Shakespeare killing his daughter.) Or it is possible that there is some other factor (better command over troops or a more egalitarian drafting policy, just naming some factors off the top of my head) that may affect the statistics? Or, as someone here previously said, that the Israeli army is not invading or occupying but engaging in border control? There are too many factors and it just plain ignores the reality of rape to say that it's not done because of dehumanizing racism.
Further, and not trying to derail the topic, but what's interesting is that the UN definition of genocide is broader than just killing. The prima nocta type of rape can also be a form of genocide under the UN definition (ie, it could possibly be considered "imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group"). Therefore, Nitzan's conclusion that women are not raped in an attempt to limit births (stupid enough as it is) could even be considered genocide. But that is besides the point and has already been discussed by someone above.
It is a good idea to go to the UN's website and find the definition of genocide, which Emily apparently has done.
Big subjects. I’m not sure I can muster the energy anymore. After all, I sweat the small stuff too, so it gets a little exhausting. Still, I wish somebody would explain how human rights violations against Palestinians are rationalized among the Israeli population. Forgive me—I don’t get it. How do Israelis not comprehend that bulldozing somebody’s house is annoying (to put it mildly) to the inhabitants of the house and will engender a desire to retaliate? (to say nothing of the siege of Gaza) What allows the denial of conscience there?
I am not a religious person, so the notion of “manifest destiny” on religious grounds —that is, settling a region and violently removing the residents there, with the justification for the land grab being that the land was promised in “sacred” texts to “God’s Chosen People”(though I admit my ignorance on this point, these words)— is unconvincing. It makes no sense at all to me (as suicide bombings make no sense, except as manifestations of despair and rage). Not that, now that Israel is a fact, I think it should not exist. It’s just that I sincerely wish Israelis to have peace, and be safe, but somebody has to say Wait a minute...this isn’t working...
—L'eau
www.thomasinapaine.blogspot.com
Wow, did you actually delete my comment linking to the post where I presented Ilan Pappe's documentary evidence of Israeli soldiers raping Palestinian women on a regular basis in 1948? Wow, I suppose I should be amazed, but I'd have to say I'm not. Here it is again, let's see if you can face it this time:
http://nonarab-arab.blogspot.com...ter-1-
rape.html
For the record, I get comments on my blog I don't always like, but I debate them, I don't delete them. Try it, it's a better tactic.
Lies. Everyone knows rape is hardly about sex, it's the best way to show you've conquered and humiliated the enemy beyond limits.
You can call me an Anti-Semite but it doesn't mean anything. You zionists are the biggest Anti-semites on the planet, you've kept a whole people (Arab semites) INPRISONED for more than 60 years, limited their rights to selfrule, cramped their living space by building more settlements in the WB, chocked their watersupplies, made it impossible them to have a working economy and you have the audacity to say your soldiers don't rape????
It's not like it will matter will it??? When was the last time the media criticized Israel so much? When was the last time the U.N. was ever able to impose much on Israel? You've broken the most laws in the UN constitution yet you keep on getting away with it. Doesn't it seem abit odd?
You are NOT Jews and and Israelis have nothing to do with Judaism.
Real Jews are against this nazistate - Orthodox Jews who live in Europe, U.S. TEHRAN but NOT Israel.
If you really wanted to appear innocent then you'd just finish your wallborder, take out your prisonguard from the WB and leave them on their side. But that's not the plan is it? More settlements will increase for years to come and no one will be able to stop it, it'll just get annexed sooner or later.
Moses leaves his people for only a few days and you create a goldencalf for worship.
The Romans invade and you leave your faith to worship Neptune, thinking their faith is better somehow.
The Babylonians take over you and your Rabbis make the Thalmud inspired by Babylonian paganism...
So yes, you're not Jews, you're Satanists in the real word.
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