Gravatar *whew* This is a really big and multi-faceted subject to discuss, all I can offer is anecdotal evidence - Amongst those I have encountered who could be considered as living in 'Fayland' (one of whom would be my boyfriend, lol) it does exist. However the gay male world is predominantly young and my experience is that by 30 most guys are not considered part of that world, weather they want to be or not.
Of course you could argue that rather than 'Fayland' it just comes down to a societal ideal of hedonism, which is borne of the simple fact that gay guys arn't expected to raise children. I'd suggest checking out the two series of "Queer as Folk" whick revolves around the writer's experiences around Britain's largest gay village, mixed in with a large amount of dramatic interperatation; it touches on many of the variations within and structure of the gay world and certainly runs in parallel with my experiences this side of the Atlantic.


Gravatar Hm. This is interesting...

As a queer woman, I don't think that I can accurately judge gay male culture, but I do see some places where your description of what "Fayland" might look like resonates with my observations of gay culture. And the description of Guyland in general seems particualrly relevant where I live--a booming college town known for its drinking and its football.

I also wonder how exactly navigating Guyland affects queer women such as myself. As a femme appearing woman, I am often mistaken for straight and have to navigate the tricky process of disengaging myself from unwanted, often drunken, male attention without inciting said guys to violence. I wonder also how queer women of color deal with this dynamic. Or just women of color in general.

Also, Fayland, I believe, has implications for queer women too. Particularly in reference to legitimacy of queer women's identities and body image. I find that often if I go out dancing (always at the town gay bar, since I'm not very comfortable at straight bars for the reasons listed above) I am first asked by a random gay man I do not know if I'm straight, and then told how shocking it is to see someone "cute" that is a "lesbian." It is incredibly patronizing, and irritating that gay men feel they have the right to question women's bodies, even within a queer space. If that doesn't happen, I am often approached by gay men who know me from school or my activism work, spaces where I often care less for appearance and more for comfort, and am told how good I look "when I try." So, gay men's disordered image of bodies, I would argue, is not limited to men's bodies, but also spills over onto [femme] women's bodies. I think often because of the "fag hag/fruit fly" relationships that many flaming or fabulous gay men experience with femme or straight women, gay men feel that they share a bond with these women that gives them the right to criticize those women's bodies similarly to how they would criticize their own or their potential partner's bodies. Obviously, this is not meant to describe all gay men, or even a majority of them. I find, actually, that it is often a small number of gay men who actually fully engage in this Fayland process completely. And, interestingly, I have found that the same type of Fayland gay men often offer me the same question/de-legitimizing of my identity as well as criticism of my appearance regardless of their race, whereas my (granted, limited) experience with queer women of color offers a much wider range of expression than Fayland stereotype or feeling forced out of the community.


Gravatar I'd suggest that gay men's evaluation of (any) women's appearance is more a function of male priviledged upbringing rather than interaction with straight females who appear in queer spaces; the effect may be amplified compared to the objectification of women by straight men since the subject of evaluation is not seen as a potential 'romantic target' and as such they feel free to express their opinion.
Just a thought


Gravatar Whew, large topic indeed. I think we should talk more about this. Jason, great points here. In my own experience with men of this age group, I definitely see this prolonged adolescence--even into their 30's. I am especially interested in the idea that men only escape from guyland by following strict gender/societal roles of marriage or settling down. I think it's also very telling that I imagine a similar escape for gay men would be the same. Straight people have a tendency to think that heteronormative options are the only appropriate gay action.


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