Buonasera Papa.
this is the first time i heard about the controversy on 'the Sign of Peace'. can you direct me to a link that gives your whole opinion to this.
grazie.
xvi,
There is no real controversy over the Sign of Peace, but there is some doofus from Detroit who would sure like there to be. The poll is just to see what the rest of St. Blog’s thinks about it. Not to influence the vote or anything, but I think it will be interesting to see how many people want it to go away…and fast!
God bless you and thanks for writing.
Papa
Holy Father, I don't like the sign of peace as it stands (too huggy-kissy) but if you reinstated the Tridentine sign of peace, a sort of stylized, slow and very ceremonial embrace which doesn't allow for a lot of noise or ruckus, that would be really cool.
Also, I want to be Papal Umbrella-Bearer.
You may feel insecure in your technical competence, Holy Father, but let me assure you that you're way ahead of me. I have no idea how to set up a nifty little poll like that!
The sign of peace does get a little silly (though it's generally inoffensive), but what I wish they'd abolish is holding hands during the Our Father. I need both of mine for my squiggly toddlers.
The sign of peace is for "Roaming Catholics" to stretch their legs and check on that recipe Blanch has.
Most Holy Father,
Given the many horrors I have experienced regardng the "sign of peace" (which is often anything but), I would personally abolish it so that the possibility of the participants comitting sins of falsehood is avoided. However, I will otherwise side with Matthew of Beauvais - regardng the sign of peace, I mean.
Will you also visit Australia soon, with your fiery Papal Cross and a list of orthodox Episcopal replacements for some of our needy Sees??? Maitland and Newcastle is a good place to start...
God Bless you, Most Holy Father. Ad multos annos.
Jack Dwyer.
Some of the Masses I attend leave it out entirely.
In a lot of places, and the doofus from Detroit may know of these, it just turns in to a hug and gab (hopefully not grab) fest and the din is nearly as loud as a modern choir completed plugged, with drum set.
I was born post Vatican II and I guess I haven't attended enough TLMs to recollect the Kiss of Peace in that setting. I'm pretty sure no one runs up and down the aisles for it, though, whatever it is, so that'd be good.
So, Whats so peaceful about it?
Matthew,
Thank you for your comments. You correctly observe what many believe is a problem with the Sign of Peace. Many believe that the old Kiss of Peace is more reverent and conducive to worship. Unfortunately, it would not be appropriate for me to express my preference at this time, because we cannot discount the necessity for unity (the lack of which is a problem in itself).
Regarding your request for a position on the Papal Umbrella-Bearer team, I suggest that you send a resume to the Prefect for the Congregation of the Papal Umbrella-Bearers.
God bless you.
Papa
MrsDarwin,
It’s good to hear from you again. God bless you for having toddlers to bring before our Lord. That is the one distraction at Mass us priests absolutely love and you should too! They will be serving at the altar all too soon, so enjoy their squirming now.
Please don’t get me going on the holding hands thing. sigh
God bless you.
Papa
Lucy,
Thank you for your poignant observation. Many of us are aware of that too. Please make sure you cast a vote in the poll (not that I want to influence the results or anything).
God bless you.
Papa
Jack,
Thank you for writing. I hope my previous remarks about the Sign of Peace will suffice as a response to you as well.
I am not sure what the travel office is cooking up as far as a trip to the Land Down Under, so I cannot answer that yet. Regarding the episcopate down there, all I can tell you at this time is that as desirable as it would be to clone Cardinal Pell, cloning is still immoral. I wish I had better news for you.
God bless you.
Papa
Chris,
Some of the Masses I attend leave it out entirely.
Could you please tell me where those Masses are held, that way if I ever visit Detroit I will know where to attend Mass. You can e-mail me that information if you wish.
Thank you for your comments and God bless you.
Papa
Ssoldie,
You ask the very question that many raise!
Thank you and God bless you.
Papa
While the congregation in our (former) Parish was subjected to the annoyance of the "sign of peace," the members of the choir (in the loft, where we BELONG) were able to ignore the whole thing--
Most of us smirked, waved a "V" to mock the hippies who came up with this silliness, and then prepared to sing the Agnus Dei.
Heh.
I think the sign of peace is cool. I especially like it when the older people yell across the church and wave. And it's super cool when they actually leave the pews to go and shake hands and talk really loud about stuff they were just talking about before mass started (you know the one's who discuss trivial things in loud irreverent voices while some of us who realize we are before our God try to pray or sit in respectful silence). Yeah, they are the coolest. As far as getting that "recipe from Blanch" during the sign of peace, Lucy, that's really cool too. But, I think some of our parishioners might be cooler than yours; ours do that right after receiving Communion and while talking on their cell phones (good multi-tasking skills). "Baby Boomers"-what a great generation.
Dear Papa,
I'm not yet a full Catholic - I'm just undergoing the conversion process, but I'm hoping to make my profession of faith in another month or so. I came from the Anglican Church, and even the Anglo-Catholics in Canada couldn't hold out against the sign of the peace. I've never liked it in any of the churches I've attended, including the Catholic one I'm going to now. I don't want to be too obvious about it, but I deliberately place myself in a less-densely populated part of the church, so I won't have to shake hands with a dozen people at that point of the mass - 2 is more than enough for me. At least my church is restrained in its use of it, though. I've been to churches where the priest comes out of the sanctuary and right up the main aisle of the church to shake hands with EVERYONE - it practically turned into a conga line by the end, and took forever for him to go back where he belonged. It made me think that maybe celebrating mass wasn't what he really wanted to be doing that morning. Anyway, I watch and wait in hope that this innovation will soon go the way of the dodo; I don't think there'd be much resistance to scrapping it.
Dear Papa B,
I thought about this and smiled at mass today, as I shook hands with and/or waved half-heartedly at the mass-goers sitting near me. I voted for "uncomfortable" in the poll, but today wasn't so bad -- just three small girls, their mom, and a young guy in front of me who looked like a seminarian or something. Our priest also comes down the center aisle shaking hands and even kissing the more forward ladies of the parish. I think it's very silly.
Btw--that's net-speak for "by the way", sort of like LOL; you should use this sometimes! 
-- I always keep my arms crossed during the Our Father, just in case someone tries anything funny. I think that innovation came in during the 10 or so years that I was fallen away from Holy Mother Church,in the 80's, because the first time I saw it on my return 'home', I was aghast. I thought maybe some Baptists had come to our Mass by accident, then I noticed several people doing the same.
Oh well, I shall try to be more charitable.
Always lovely to muse with you, Papa!
xoxo
Papa,
If you are ever in Portland Ore, go to Holy Rosary Church. No hand shake of peace, kiss of peace, or "Chinese Fire drill" at this church. It's a Dominican Priory and a wonderfully Roman Catholic Church. Although there is a new priest who's showing signs of wanting to "up date" the church as he puts it, but he has now realized that he has met with a wall. The reason the church is so active and full is because of what it is, and not the freak show that you find everywhere else.
I find the Sign of Peace mildly annoying. What's really intolerable, though, is the "stand and greet your neighbors" thing they do before Mass can even begin. Now that, dearest Papa, is a first class penance.
Dad29,
Thank you for sharing your experiences, I suspect that there are now going to be a great number of people who can’t sing all that well signing up for choir. I’d change your address before the American Association of Cantors gets wind of this.
subjected to the annoyance of the "sign of peace,"
I’ll note that you most likely voted against the Sign of Peace. 
I like that wink thing. It’s so clever.
God bless you.
Papa
Jane,
What you describe is terribly unfortunate and merits your sarcastic tone. I’ve heard stories like that before and find them dreadful. Are you from LA, Detroit, or Rochester? [or other]
Thank you for writing and God bless you.
Papa
Wanda,
Welcome home! God bless you on your journey to the fullness of faith. I will note that you are a ‘No’ vote.
I know this doesn’t help you much, but for what it is worth, I avoid the grab-fest by making sure I am the one presiding over the Most Holy Sacrifice.
Again, God bless you.
Papa
MoongardenMary,
Thank you for participating. You have made me wonder why we even bother publishing the GIRM. Btw, when you mention, “in case someone tries anything funny,” do you mean you fear someone stopping short on you?
Btw, did you notice I used ‘Btw’?
God bless you.
Papa
Lucy,
Thank you for the tip. I know someone from Portland, his name doesn’t matter to this conversation, so I don’t need to use it, but it is Archbishop Vlazny (with no ‘e’). I think you make a valid observation about the heath of a parish being a reflection of the dignity placed on the liturgy and devotions. It makes me happy when I hear good news about the liturgy. Thank you and God bless you.
Papa
Elizabeth,
"stand and greet your neighbors" thing they do before Mass can even begin.”
I’m sorry, child. That is NOT part of the Mass nor is it advisable before Mass. We should be quietly preparing ourselves to participate in the Most Holy Sacrifice.
Are you sure you didn’t accidentally walk into an Alcohol Anonymous meeting? You know they sometimes hold them in churches. Mass can be celebrated at any given time, but if you went to Mass on Tuesday at 8:00 pm, there is a good chance that the ritual you described was in fact an AA meeting. Tell me child, did the Profession of Faith contain anything about admitting you are an alcoholic?
Thank you for writing and God bless you, sweet child.
Papa
Dear Papa,
I have both the pre-Mass and during-Mass (Sign of Peace) greetings at my church. I don't really like the one before Mass, but everybody's used to it. I'm from near Detroit, but I'm not sure what the whole hubbub is about with that. I find it strange that so many people are so vehement about how the Sign of Peace is such a bad thing. I'm only 18, so I've never known anything else, but I really don't see a problem with it - actually it serves a very good purpose because it gives people a chance to reconcile with others before receiving Communion, as in Matthew 5:23-24. So not only is it justifiable, it's a way to fulfill a command Christ Himself made to His disciples. Of course it gets abused, but that's no reason to ditch anything. Oh well, all these sticklers will probably die out before I do (God willing), and by then I'll have some Godforsaken new church fad to kvetch about. All the best,
Dearest Papa,
I was at Mass once and during the last part of the Lord's Prayer some people raised their hands. So, since I'm so cool, I raised my hands too, but with only my index and pinky fingers up. I got some "you are so with it" nods and also a few dirty looks. I was wondering is you could explain why I would get any kind of negativity about that. Oh, and isn't making a hand-holding "love train" from one aisle to the next so awesome? I've seen this done at a Mass I attended once, and would like to know what way you think is best to start this going at my parish.
As I alluded to before, there are a lot of baby boomers at my church and so it shouldn't be too hard to get something like that rolling. Do you have any hints that I could use?
Peace Papa,
Jane
Truthfully, Jane, if you want to get it started, just ask a friend to help you, then make sure you're sitting on the end across the center aisle from each other and do it yourself. Everyone else will follow because they'll think it's sooo cool!
And Papa might reprimand me for it, but that's how a lot of things that are in today's liturgies got started.
I'm with Elizabeth. The "meet and greet" before Mass is very annoying. I'm a part of a very large parish in So Cal where this has become a pre-Mass ritual. I don't want to be all folksy during Church. That's what coffee and donuts are for.
I too have been at other Catholic churches and had the priest do the "greet your neighbor" hand shake. It's not done before the priest starts mass, it' done well after he has started mass. I think it takes the whole focus off where you should be spiritually. It also gets kids stirred up again after parents have settled them down for mass, and it just totally blows your mind set. This is not healthy for your communion with Christ, which is why you're there to begin with. The fact that Ed and Lois are next to you, along with the Johnson twins, can wait till after church. Like Sando said, "That's what coffee and doughnuts are for".
Stopping short. LOL. Good one, Papa! LOL.
Like most of you, I don't like the disruption the 'sign of peace' creates during Mass. I've been to some parishes where they begin the Mass with a 'get to know your neighbors'handshake and nod - I guess it is done so that the celebration of the Holy Eucharist will not be interrupted by this 'horizontal interaction', when we are only supposed to be focusing on Jesus Christ.
That being said, Vatican II has changed the Mass so it will be a liturgical celebration of the whole community - it is not a private prayer. I think the sign of peace has it's place in the celebration of the Holy Eucharist. However, it should be done quietly and 'peacefully' - it is not the time to exchange recipes.
Peter,
Thank you for writing and offering your thoughts. You make a good argument for keeping the Sign of Peace as it is. It would not be appropriate for me as Pontiff to debate the issue in this private forum, but I have a multitude of e-mails from one of your neighbors regarding this issue.
To offer you what the other side of the issue thinks, I will post one of his letters here, but to preserve his anonymity I will replace the ‘i’s in his name with ‘*’s .
Dearest Papa,
I don’t know why so many of my e-mails don’t make it through to you, but I am going to try again. This is the thirty-sixth letter I have written to you on the subject of the Sign of Peace, and I pray that it makes it to you.
Papa, I beg you to remove the Sign of Peace, as it stands, from the liturgy. I don’t know how it is in Europe, but in North America the Sign of Peace is nothing but an uncomfortable and irreverent distraction from the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. It turns the church into a social hall where no peace can be found at all. Can’t you just make it go away? Perhaps you could return that portion of the Mass to be more akin to a priestly blessing. It seems that that is what would truly bring peace to the parishioners.
I understand the idea is for people to reconcile themselves with others before receiving Communion, but quite frankly, the reality of that is hogwash. First off, most people sit with their family and friends. Second, one would be hard pressed to find even 1% of parishioners who have some sort of hatred for another parishioner. If they did, the last place in the world they would be found is sitting next to each other in a pew. I mean just who are we trying to fool here? Even if we pretend that they did sit near each other; do we really think that just because they held hands while singing a folksy rendition of the Our Father and shook hands during the Sign of Peace that they have reconciled? I would argue that they most likely are probably less prepared to receive Our Lord in the Blessed Sacrament because their thoughts would be consumed by the repugnance of having to shake hands with their enemy. It seems to me like it is a roadblock to genuine reconciliation and grace.
Some may argue that just because 98% of the parishes in North America abuse the practice that we shouldn’t abandon it all together. To that I answer, even when not “abused”, there is no way of doing something like that reverently - and not a soul alive can remain focused on the Sacred Mystery of Our Lord in the Blessed Sacrament while being groped by their neighbor.
So please Papa, I beg you to make it go away.
With filial love,
R*ck Lugar*
God bless you, Peter.
Papa
Jane,
Child please, I hope you were kidding again. The Holy Sacrifice of the Mass is the Church’s highest form of prayer, the last thing we need is for people to be introducing novelties. Hasn’t that gotten us into enough trouble, dear child?
God bless you.
Papa
Chris,
Shhh…
Please don’t give anybody any ideas, or the next thing you know it I’ll have that insignificant blogger e-mailing me with yet more gripes.
God bless you and I agree that that is how some of the novelty gets started.
Papa
Sando,
I don't want to be all folksy during Church. That's what coffee and donuts are for.
Indeed; and Bavarian cream pie too!
God bless you.
Papa
Lucy,
Thank you for your input again. That the happenings during the Sign of Peace impede a parent’s ability to instill piety, reverence and decorum in their youth is an argument I have heard before and consider.
God bless you.
Papa
Salvacion,
Thank you for your comments. They are very much appreciated and I think it most prudent for Papa to leave them stand as-is. Please come by again and continue to contribute.
God bless you,
Papa
Personally, I like the Sign of Peace right where it is. I experience firsthand the apostles' joy and sharing when Jesus first appeared among them after His resurrection. It occurs when it does because "Jesus is among us!"
I don't like it when it gets noisy, or people begin to converse, but done correctly the Sign of Peace reminds us that Jeus is now really, truly, not just spiritually among us.
In Christ's peace and joy,
Robin L. in TX
Your Holiness,
I think you've beat this "sign of peace" bit to death. How 'bout a blog about saying Mass half in English and half in Spanish? I wish the priest would just pick one language and stick with it. Sometimes I'm not sure if I've been to Mass or an episode of Sesame Street.
I guess when the priest ends Mass with "This Mass has been brought to you by the numbers 3 and 7 and the letters P and X" I'll know.
-TSI-
Robin L. in TX,
Thank you for your comments, please take the time to cast your vote in the poll. I will also make a mental note of your comments.
God Bless you.
Papa
Mr. Imposition,
I am sorry if I've "beat this 'sign of peace' bit to death." I have merely been trying to give every commentator the courtesy of a reply.
Unfortunately, I cannot be aware of every conceivable liturgical novelty introduced. In fact I have never heard of a Sesame Street Mass, but what you describe sounds strikingly similar to the Dora the Explorer Mass I heard was available in some of the more progressive dioceses.
Thank you for your comments and God bless you.
Papa
yes, yes, let's get rid of all parts of the Mass where people acknowledge the presence of fellow parishoners. What right does anyone have to make me take my eyes off the priest and look at the face of my neighbor? I go to Mass to visit privately with God, not to be Christian!!! Down with friendliness! Down with community! Down with love!
Hey "anonymous":
You sound like a great person to start my "love train" with. (yes, Nihil it's ok to end a sentence with a preposition.)
If you're interested let me know and we can go to Mass together, and during the "our Father" we can start grabbing hands and see how long of a line we can make, but first I think we should high five our neighbors. Then during the last part of the prayer, we just have to do the "rock on" sign, or do you think the "wave" would be more Christian? I'll leave that to you since you seem to be more experienced and the "go to Church to visit" type.
Call me on my cell phone anytime, even on Sunday (I guess it's ok to talk on your phone during Mass since I've seen some do it, it might be unfriendly to turn it off anyway).
In my diocese, most of the parishes have a rather wild sign of peace. It's not extremely wild, but everyone reaches over three pews and pretends to be Mr. Fantastic to stretch so that they can 'peace-i-fy' the maximum number of people. As a way to maintain a spirit of sobriety, prayer, and worship, I greet the person on my left and right and then reach for my hankerchief and pretend to blow my noise (while I prepare for Communion) for the rest of the riot and people (a little to my surprise) actually leave me alone.
In response to the comment above mine, anonymous (I would call you by name, but you decided not to be friendly enough to give us that and left us with a cold 'anonymous'), the whole idea behind a church building, not even necessarily Catholic, is a place for people to focus, pray, worship God. In my city, there are many halls of fame and theaters and convention centers--places designed for people to acknowledge other people. If acknowledging other people is your aim, you'll be much happier at one of those places. I am sorry that you feel the Mass is being attacked when the 'sign of peace' is threatened. If this is the sum of the Mass for you, you're missing out on so much more, namely, the reality of the Mass. In reality, the sign of peace may be omitted. In the Mass, Christ, through the priest, offers himself for us as a sacrafice to the Father and strengthens us with his Body and Blood under the appearance of bread and wine. If you were sitting next to me at Mass, I'm afraid I would not apologize for giving all my attention to my Savior, the Lord of the Universe. And his love...He not only became a humble man to save me 2,000 years ago, but He continues to come to me in the small, insignificant form of bread and wine. Let me tell ya, just on that, I'm hooked. My attention has been bought by true love. The friendliest person in the world could not a candle to the power of Christ's love. Also, Christ calls us to that love, not friendliness. Being Christian is not simply being friendly. People who hate you can be friendly to you. Christians are called to love. If you love someone, you will care for them so much that you will always try to do what's best for them. At Mass, it would be better for them if you did not allow them to be a distraction and did not give to them what belonged to God, your time and attention. I am honored to see such a burning love and zeal in you and urge you to continue to seek to love and serve our Lord. You will be in my prayers and I ask you to keep me in yours.
cue
Holy Father:
Could you, at the very least, ask those unwell souls who come to Mass when they are suffering from flu, colds, hayfever, or leprosy to refrain from sharing the Sign of Peace with their neighbors? I believe that now they might be afraid of appearing unsociable, but keeping their hands to themselves under such circumstances is truly the Christian thing to do.
Just this past week, I was seated by a fellow who sneezed and coughed and hacked into his right hand for most of the Mass - and then used it to shake hands with me. I was especially appalled when I realized I would be taking the Host in that hand in a few minutes.
Dearest Papa,
The last comment by Donna brings up an issue that I have been wondering about. Is touching the precious Body of Christ better on the tongue or is it better in the filthy unconsecrated hands (no offense, Donna) of people. Sorry to be so blunt but I think it's honest.
Love you
Jane
Most Holy Father,
At our church, we are deprived. The laity does not participate in the kiss of peace. In fact, the laity does not even hold hands or sway during the Our Father. To make matters worse, we only have a high altar - no card table! We are so disenfranchised.
The downside to all these things is that we are supposed to look less worldly which probably means I will never own a Red 1971 Lamborghini Miura SV. But I am ok with that now.
My newfound humility enables me to settle for other Italian exotics so I've been praying for a Ferrari 250 GTO every day for a week now. Is there anything you might be able to do since no one has answered my prayers yet?
With much love and affection,
A Benedictine Oblate
P.S. The car may be sent to the P.O. Box listed on my site.
Dearest Papa,
First of all, I don't know who that R*ck Lugan* character is, but he sure seems to have his head screwed on right! I think you should give him a job - maybe he could head up the next Liturgical Commission or something. Secondly, anonymous mentioned that he is grateful for any excuse not to have to look at the priest during mass. Well, he might have personal reasons for this, but I've just had a GREAT idea that would make him happy. Maybe, just maybe (now, stop me if you've heard this before) the priest could actually TURN AROUND, so he's not facing the congregation! Oh, he could turn back at appropriate moments, when he's really got something to say to us, but maybe he could address God the same way all the rest of us do. That would create a bit of a problem with the altar, I know, but maybe it could be moved a bit further back, to make more room for the priest and his assistants. Or better yet, in a lot of churches I've been to, they actually already HAVE another altar, right back against the wall, that nobody uses, even though it's usually FAR more beautiful than the one out in the middle of the sanctuary. I don't know what that was all about - maybe a first draft or something. Anyway, dear Papa, I know that since Vatican II the Church is no longer afraid of innovation, so maybe you could adopt these daring new ideas of mine and see what happens.
Children,
Thank you for writing, but let us remember to have charity in all things. To answer the particular questions asked of me:
Donna: Could you, at the very least, ask those unwell souls who come to Mass when they are suffering from flu, colds, hayfever, or leprosy to refrain from sharing the Sign of Peace with their neighbors?
It seems to me that what you are asking for is just common decency. I would like to help, but that isn’t exactly encyclical type material. Perhaps you could ask your pastor to mention the issue, or even petition him omit the Sign of Peace altogether.
Jane: Is touching the precious Body of Christ better on the tongue or is it better in the filthy unconsecrated hands…
All you need to be concerned with child is whether or not reception in the hand is allowed in your diocese or not. I have a definite opinion on the matter, but it would not be prudent for me to discuss it at this time.
A Benedictine Oblate: Is there anything you might be able to do since no one has answered my prayers [for a Ferrari 250 GTO] yet?
There sure is. First, I can tell you to have patience and to be persistent in your prayers. Second, I can suggest that you set your sights considerably lower. I can highly recommend the Volkswagen Golf. I had to sell mine, but it was one heck of a sleeper!
Wanda, thank you for the fine suggestions. Not to be uncharitable or anything, but trust me on this one; that R*ck Lugar* character is a moron. He’s like a stopped clock: right twice a day and that’s about it.
Again, thank you for writing and God bless you.
Dear Papa,
Calling R*ck Lugar* a "moron" is uncharitable. Anyway, I find Wanda's opinion not too far from his.
I LOVE Latin prayers and chants but I'm not too fond of the Tridentine Mass. That standing and kneeling is very bad for my knees. I would rather kneel for a long time than kneeling and standing in close succession.
Offer it up, Salvacion. It's the least you can do.
Did Jesus say "This scourging can't be very good for any part of my body" Or "This crown of thorns can't be too good for my head" Or "This cross carrying isn't very good for my back, shoulders, hips, hands, knees, or feet." Or "This being nailed to the Cross sure is uncomfortable...get me down!"
He did that last part for 3 hours, you can do a little uncomfortable kneeling for a few minutes, yes?
P.S. And please don't be a "butt kneeler" either. You know what I'm talking about.
Dear Papa,
Could you please tell Jane to offer her condescension to others who are irritated by the people (or actions of people) around them during Mass? I think that if they are irritated, they're not paying much attention to the Celebration in the Sanctuary. Do what I do, sit on the first three rows. If it happens that the priest is not celebrating the Mass reverently enough, close your eyes and imagine Jesus as victim and priest. It works for me.
Also, could you please tell me the significance of the successive kneeling and and standing in the TM? I DO know the theology of kneeling and genuflecting (and I don't do the spasmic movement of the right knee, either), but these part of the TM I don't understand..
Thank you Jane for helping in my examination of conscience last night.Yes, I offer my pains and sufferings but sometimes I forget that my pain and suffering are but an iota of his suffering and death. Mea culpa.... and yes, I am a butt kneeler sometimes. I do it when I pray the Rosary on my knees in front of the Blessed Sacrament - I rest for about 5 Hail Mary's.
Salvacion,
Wanda is obviously very bright and charitable and what I had written was not a dismissal of her excellent and informed ideas; I was merely giving her some paternal input regarding her associations. I can assure you that I wasn’t being uncharitable. I have some particular insight into the makeup of that person and am quite sure that the readers understood what I was getting at. Nevertheless, I went to great lengths to conceal the person’s identity. In protecting someone’s identity, most people would have given the person a fictitious name. As we know from Seinfeld, that is not a satisfactory method. People will naturally wonder if the ‘given’ name is actually the real name, or they might try to use some Freudian-like reasoning to draw a connection where none exists, and the next thing you know, they will be assuming that I was talking about Cardinal Arinze.
You see, child; when I was young there was a mathematics professor who was very kind to me and he took a special interest in me, for which, I am very grateful. One of the things he taught me was how to develop algorithms – algorithms that made Enigma look like child’s play. Using that knowledge, I created an unbreakable algorithm and applied it to the name of the person in question. His identity is so well masked, that he might as well be a figment of our imagination.
FWIW, I would prefer to kneel the whole time too, but we do have rubrics to follow and stuff.
[Did you see that, MoongardenMary? I used FWIW for the first time. Papa’s on a roll!]
In closing, you have responded well to the grace given toward charity. Thank you for sharing it with our readers and me. It is appreciated.
God bless you.
Papa
Jane,
You sound just like my father! Your observations are quite valid, but you must remember that not all of us are as young or healthy as we would like to be. I’m sure if we asked someone who suffers from chronic arthritis if they would rather kneel and stand in close order over continual pain, they would so choose to.
Thank you for writing and God bless you.
Papa
Salvacion,
I hope I have addressed the previous issues satisfactorily. Regarding the kneeling and standing in the Tridentine Mass I have to confess that I don’t see it as being any more or less cumbersome (if we want to view it that way) than the Novus Ordo Mass. Surely there is more kneeling in the TM, and we do kneel for a brief period during the Credo, which may be what you are referring to as far as kneeling and standing in rapid order. The purpose of which is to honor the Incarnation of Our Lord.
God bless you.
Papa
To all,
Contrary to what some certain fallen clerics, liberal dissenting bishops, seafaring feminist pretenders, or ex-editors of an anonymous American Jesuit publication might say, your Papa welcomes debate and open discussion. It just has to fit within the realm of orthodoxy and be fairly respectful. When commenting on something by another commentator, please be mindful of how your words may be taken. Papa himself has fallen into the trap of using sarcasm lightheartedly and it being understood differently than what he intended. Let us enjoy musing.
God bless you.
Papa
Dear Papa,
I know that part of the Credo when we kneel during the recitation of "Et incarnatus est de Spiritu Sancto..." I miss the kneeling during the Christmas Mass (even that was taken out - we just bow now). The repeated kneeling and standing in close succession is not during the Credo. Oh, well... this topic is getting too much attention. I just would like to say that the Latin Mass I love is the one celebrated in Novus Ordo. Sad thing is I could only participate in it when I'm in Rome. The Latin Masses here in the US are all TM. Please tell me if you know of any Latin Masses in Novus Ordo in New York City.
Just an anecdote: St. Josemaria Escriva, immediately after Vatican II was concluded, was given a special dispensation to celebrate his Masses in the Tridentine, which he loved, but he obediently followed the New Order. Perhaps this is what we all should do - follow the Magisterium.
Salvacion,
I know there are a fair number of people who appreciate the Novus Ordo Mass in Latin and that many dioceses offer it. You may want to check the website of the archdiocese to see they offer that information. I searched http://www.masstimes.org and found every conceivable language except Latin (Tridentine Mass excluded), perhaps you will have better luck.
Please remember that there is nothing wrong with appreciating the Tridentine Mass over the new one, my predecessor of happy memory, Pope John Paul II, rightfully desired that the Tridentine Mass be made available for all who prefer it.
God bless you,
Papa
Dear Papa,
Thank you so much for your fatherly concern for me! I must confess, I had no idea that that Lugar* was such a louche character. I'll be much more careful in the future. But as you yourself must be finding out, this is the great hazard of the Internet. You never know WHO you're talking to. Anyone can make up anything they like about themself. Why, some bozo with a keyboard could just go ahead and declare that he's the Pope, and who'd be the wiser? (Of course, this would never really happen, hahaha - that's just my little attempt at a reduction ad absurdam, if that's the right term.)
After reading all this, I have to wonder: am I the only Catholic around who has ever found herself being selected for a refusal of the sign of peace?
The gentleman who chose to go this route was right beside me at Mass. He shook hands with everyone else he could reach, but refused my outstretched hand.
I assume this was his way of objecting to the fact that I knelt for the Consecration while everyone else stood. After all, what other reason could there be?
Dear Papa,
I assume that Mattiacum was visiting LA and went to Mass there.... (sigh!)
Wanda, child:
Yes, we need to be solicitous in our Internet contacts. It seems to me that there are two distinct types of papal posers. There are anti-popes, who are quite dangerous to the faith of individual souls and possibly the Church as a whole. In fact one of them was even ‘elected’ via an Internet ballot process. There is also what I would call the un-popes. The un-pope is actually as quite pitiable and harmless. Typically he is a fairly well intentioned Catholic who is somewhat virtue-impaired and afflicted with an overactive and immature imagination. Make sure you pray for the un-popes every night!
Likewise, there are two types of absurd. There are things that are so absurd that nobody pretends that they are anything more than absurd, therefore we find humor in them. Then there are the things that are absurd, but presented as legitimate, which are dangerous and no laughing matter. I’m talking about things like Relativism, Liberation Theology, “women’s ordination”, “gay marriage”, “pro-choice Catholics”, good Kennedy’s, etc.
In good absurdity,
Papa
Mattiacum,
I cannot speak to what was in the heart of that man or his reasons for snubbing you. You shouldn’t let it disappoint you, though. Some people would consider that a special blessing. If the only reason you can truly think of for being refused a handshake, is that you did the reverent thing and followed the norm for the USA, you might have been a victim of Relativism. You see the Catholic who is tainted by Relativism loves to pay homage to diversity, liberality and individuality, but they are extremely intolerant of anything contrary to their idea of those things. By assuming a reverent posture, you may have crossed that line into the intolerable (assuming of course, that you weren’t having a little nose issue that day).
Thank you for writing and God bless you.
Papa
Salvacion:
Are you sure it's me you want Papa to scold for being condescending? I don't think that's me at all. I've been called a few things, but NEVER condescending. Please take it back.
Love always and forever,
Jane
ROFLM....er...I mean, WTG, Papa B, WTG!
L8R
xoxo
Re Salvacion's & Papa Ratzi's assumption that I was visiting LA at the time - er, not quite.
It seems you have to come to Canada for such "special" treatment.
To Mattiacum:
Sorry, it was only I (not Papa) who assumed that you were in LA --- knowing that it is their practice to stand during Consecration.
Canada you say? Pity! I'm a Canadian living in New York and it still amazes me that I work in a city where Catholic churches abound (3 within walking distance from work); where there are at least 4 daily Masses in each parish; where the Holy Eucharist is celebrated very reverently (except for a couple of priests in one parish). AND the churches are not the modern boxes that I got used to in the Toronto suburb.
Whenever I'm in Toronto for a weekend visit, I become mildly irritated (for 2 seconds - until my angel nudges me) when the Apostles' Creed is recited instead of the rich and magnificent Nicene Creed during Sunday Mass. The short Creed should only be used for children's Mass, right, Papa?
Papa, could you please express this concern to Cardinal Aloysius?
P.S. to Mattiacum: I don't think the folks from my old parish would subject anyone to such "special treatment". But I'm truly mortified you had such an experience while in Canada... We're supposed to be friendly --- Well okay, at least civil.
Speaking of Credal substitutions, Papa: since it has become the practice in certain (heterodox) parishes to substitute the Apostles' Creed for the Nicene, can those of us who do not wish to water things down do something of the opposite by way of compensation, and substitute the Quicumque? What fun that would be!
Alan,
Okay, now you're just showing off. Just say 'Athanasian Creed' and we'd all know what it is. But I don't think it's a good idea. The Catholics who believe in ecumenism will not like that very much. It is so not Vatican II.
What do you think, Papa? Errr, if I could get your attention away from your first encyclical? Sorry, I know you're very busy with WYD and pro-choice speakers and such...
My prayers.
Alan,
Thank you for writing. Actually the Apostle’s Creed is allowable in some cases, though your point is well taken and appreciated. Unity is the key, and the use of the Nicene Creed everywhere provides that unity. The Athanasian Creed being focused primarily on the Nature of God and not much more than that, doesn’t lend itself well as a substitute for the Nicene Creed. Nice idea, though.
God bless you.
Papa
Salvacion,
Thank you for your comments. There certainly is an element who would pretend that the Athanasian Creed didn’t exist or was somehow invalidated, but that simply isn’t true. I believe in ecumenism and I like the Athanasian Creed. We cannot be afraid of Truth and must embrace it, but that doesn’t mean we can’t reach out to our separated brethren. A few years ago when I was at the CDF, I put out a document entitled Dominus Iesus. I highly recommend reading it.
Thanks again and God bless you.
Papa
Your Holiness, Matthew et al:
This is to follow up on the suggestion of Matthew of Beauvais, that the form of the Sign of Peace be clarified to more closely match that which was exchanged at the traditional Missa Solemnis among the Sacred Ministers. One of your commenters wanted to know what this looked like. Without the benefit of photos from a "Trid Mass," the closest thing we have to it in secular life, is what Hispanic people refer to as the "Latin kiss." They embrace lightly with the hands, and give a brush-to-the-side kiss, first to each other's left cheek, then to the right. Most people could probably do without the kissing part. The point is, it is a sacred ritual, and needs to be treated as such.
If it is to be employed at all.
David,
Thank you for your input.
God bless you.
Papa
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