Funnily enough, when you take Ayn Rand's philosophy and allow people to follow it out to its logical conclusion, what happens? Bedlam and anarchy. It's one thing to write flim-flam books about such "lofty" notions, but quite another thing to live them out in the warp and woof of real life.
Of this I am convinced. Today, the late Ayn Rand is most assuredly now a Trinitarian.
How ridiculous, really. Why is it so difficult to understand that the vast majority of nonbelievers truly DON'T believe? It makes absolutely ZERO sense to claim that they can not only control belief, but that they'd somehow stop believing due to some selfish desire to be criminal or hedonistic. Pretending the police don't exist doesn't make you any less responsible for your actions, and granted, believing that you'll be punished for your actions would make someone far more likely to accept belief in some supposed higher power who will forgive you. Pretending he doesn't exist in order to be bad would be stupid, and one thing that's pretty common among most nonbelievers is a highly critical thinking, intelligent mind.
A quick search would clearly show that most nonbelievers live very ethical lives. There's one pretty famous study done on the beliefs of people as they were *entering* prison (to help combat the supposed conversions that happen in prison), that showed a very paltry number of them as atheists. It was at .2%--yep, that's POINT 2, far, far below the number in the general population.
Some people are far too attached to their beliefs to see things objectively, but truly, one of the most absurd things a believer can claim is that by somehow ignoring or *oddly* being capable of choosing to disbelieve in something, is because of a fear of consequences. Not only do consequences exist for them in the here and now, accepting that god belief would easily help them avoid hell for those actions. It doesn't make any sense, not to mention that I've never seen or heard of an atheist pretending god doesn't exist or forcing themselves to disbelieve in order to avoid some kind of unprovable afterlife punishment. There are some Christians who believe in good works AND faith being a requirement for heaven, but the bible clearly states that one can get into heaven by SIMPLY believing Jesus died for their sins. Even the most wicked can still obtain heaven; so if atheists really were bad people, then they would just accept god's existence and Jesus' supposed sacrifice, and all would be well. Pretending he doesn't exist is, like I said, like pretending the police don't exist, thereby somehow avoiding punishment. That makes no sense. We all have to answer to each other, eventually.
Also, since atheists/nonbelievers don't count on any god to help them in their lives, they do what most people do, whether they're reluctant to admit it or not: they count on tangible things like family and friends. We all do it; just some of us add in an invisible entity into the mix. Yet relying on tangible things has very tangible results, and there's never been any study that shows Christians' lives are any more fruitful than those of other beliefs or no beliefs. Some prayer studies have even shown a direct correlation between worsening health with those who were prayed for. Studies done that show any correlation with a positive outcome, e
Studies done that show any correlation with a positive outcome, even though they've all been pretty minimal, for those prayed for have all had serious methodological problems. The peer-reviewed process in science exists for very legitimate reasons.
At any rate, I can't reiterate enough to you how the majority of atheists/nonbelievers truly lack a belief. Most of us have spent many years studying the issue, and very seriously and genuinely so, and have just come to a different conclusion than you and other believers have. It's very rarely taken as lightly as some believers would have us believe. And it's very rarely out of ignorance and almost never out of a desire to do bad things. Like I've said numerous times: ignoring the supposed almighty "punisher" doesn't take away reality. And even if they could somehow truly convince themselves of his nonexistence, it doesn't take away the very REAL and IMMEDIATE consequences that exist in our society. We ALL have to answer to those around us, both in a legal and an ethical manner. We have families and friends who don't expect any LESS out of us (as atheists), and if we constantly hurt them, we'd find ourselves alone in a heartbeat. Humans need each other for survival; you can't do this alone, and if so, it's a very painful experience. And as humans, we do whatever we can to avoid painful situations, and distancing ourselves from society, especially from family and friends, is a very destructive thing to do. We're social animals; on top of the need to survive, we need the relationships that we create for many different reasons. Our families and friends are no less important to us than they are for believers, so we're no more apt to do things that would harm those relationships than anyone else would be. The truth is, even non-human animals of higher order have moral systems, and morals have evolved within our societies for tens of thousands of years. Even the most ardent religious believers don't follow the moral edicts of their beliefs, fully. A quick glance through the old testament would show that there's no way Christians would adhere to much of what is called for in there. Their morals have become just as "relativistic" as the rest of us. We conform to what's best for society as we learn and grow more, both as individuals and as a society. We have to do what's best for the society as a whole, and hence the reason we have laws. It's done in a rational manner, not so much in a religious one. And it's clear that most religions have just written down what they've experienced among their groups or society, and labeled it as god-given; I guess in the hopes it would be easier to control the actions of others. But, really, most of what's written in those books is just a reflection of what society already WAS. And as time goes on, we're better able to adjust and hone our morals to allow for the most freedom, yet the most safety for the individuals and society as a
And as time goes on, we're better able to adjust and hone our morals to allow for the most freedom, yet the most safety for the individuals and society as a whole. Figuring out what's best for society just takes time and experience, and that's exactly what we do in this country. It's not a matter of any religious book so much as experience helping figure out what works and what doesn't work. What helps cause the least amount of pain and suffering is what we all adhere to. Some of us just choose to label it as a god given directive. Otherwise realize how through trial and error we become better able to decide what's best for everyone, yet like I said, also allowing for as much freedom as possible without hurting others.
I could easily go on forever and ever; it's just that it upsets me greatly when people label atheists as some horrible people, and it's insulting to assume that we somehow force ourselves to disbelieve in some weird desire to be bad people. I don't want to be bad. In fact, I've been with my husband almost 15 years. We have as traditional of a marriage as you could fathom. We spend all of our time with our children; we don't drink or do drugs; we don't party or act irresponsible as parents in any way. I know most parents always want to claim their children are so wonderful, meanwhile the parents are allowing their children to get away with "murder" because of some silly fear of hurting their children's feelings, or they have some silly idea that just letting kids do what they want helps them grow. My children, on the other hand, have been raised with a stay at home mother their entire lives. Our oldest son started school with K-3 and spent his first five years of school in a strict Christian environment, and yet he's never gotten in trouble for so much as even talking out of turn. He's 12 now, and still hasn't ever gotten in trouble for a single thing, ever. Not hyperbole, FACT. Our youngest is just about to finish his first year of school, and he too is just as obedient and well-behaved as his brother. He comes home constantly telling stories about the bratty kids at school who are always doing mean things to him and others, yet not a single time has his teacher come to us about HIM being the cause of anything bad, never. If atheists are so bad, and my family isn't even close to being an anomaly--this is easily how most atheist families are--what exactly do you surmise is the reasoning behind us being such great, law-abiding, giving people, yet remaining unconvinced of any god's existence? We don't fear a god, yet we believe that since ALL we've got in this world is ourselves, we believe we have to do the best we can in helping society become a better place. It starts on the individual level, and as long as people sit back and complain about society going to hell in a handbasket, yet don't DO anything to improve it, we'll continue to fall apart. I'm doing my part, especially with raisin
I'm doing my part, especially with raising such wonderful, positive influences to the world. How I choose to view the world and the solutions isn't an oddity within the atheist "community." We all pretty much believe that it's humans that are responsible for what happens in our world, and we've got an ethical obligation to do what we can to make it a better, safer, friendly place to live.
To reiterate another point I don't think I elaborated enough on: atheists lack belief genuinely so. We have studied, like I said, the issue extensively, and after over 10 years or so of being involved in these types of discussions online, I've never come across a single person who claimed to really believe, yet pretend they don't so they can do bad things. And if someone hates god, they are NOT an atheist. You have to truly have a disbelief in any gods to be an atheist. There can't be any actual feelings toward that god if you honestly don't believe it exists. It's like claiming someone is mad at Santa (not to demean your beliefs, so I hope you won't take it that way) because they don't believe in him any longer. We've seriously come to the conclusion that a god doesn't exist, and since atheism is simply the "lack of belief in a god or gods," very few of us claim to to somehow KNOW he doesn't exist. The question is always an open one, since going where the facts lead is far more important than any kind of supposed feelings toward that god or gods. An agnostic is simply someone who claims a lack of knowledge on gods or the inability to EVER obtain knowledge, that it's not possible to have knowledge of god(s), so one can lack belief, an atheist, and claim to have no knowledge of one, at the same time, thus being an agnostic too. There's a ton of confusion about the definitions of those two things, and many people want to claim that being an atheist means you claim definitively that no gods exist, when the most basic definition is simply the lack of belief in one.
Those who go further and claim that no gods can or do exist often have an extra label added to their atheist beliefs: positive or strong, being the two stongest add-ons to the word *atheist*. Otherwise, when someone claims to be an atheist, the only thing you can know for sure about that person is that they lack belief; they'd need to expand on it themselves to make it anything MORE than just the lack of belief. And to the agnostic thing again: most of us claim to be agnostic atheists. The lack of belief and lack of knowledge of gods being the short definition of an agnostic atheist. One deals with belief; the other deals with knowledge, so they fundamentally answer two different questions. Do you believe in god? Atheist: no. Does a god exist? Atheist: I don't know, but I don't believe one does. Agnostics claim to sit on the fence, and they're welcome to use that as a definition, but it really boils down to you either believe or you don't believe. Whether you claim knowledge is another question altogether; hence, the agnostic part.
Anyhow, back to the reason for disbelief. There are probably as many reasons for investigating the god claim as there are people, but what matters isn't so much what the motivations for searching are, but that atheists have simply come away from the process without a belief in any gods. It is a true, genuinely held lack of belief. If you think about reasons outside of the fact that you already have a belief in ONE god, as to why you don't believe in other gods, you'd realize how genuine that belief is, and you'd better understand an atheist's lack of belief. We're often told it's safer to just believe, but you can't pretend to believe or force yourself to believe something that honestly looks untrue to you. It'd be like telling someone to just believe that the sky is pink with purple and yellow polka-dots. If you see something entirely different, you can't do more than just pretend you don't. You can't genuinely force yourself into a belief that your brain rejects. And my lack of belief is as genuine as it comes. There's no internal or external reason outside of the facts alone that would make me more or less apt to believe or not believe; it's simply where the facts led ME. I can't change that unless some new and convincing evidence comes along that makes me question my conclusion. And after so many years of this discussion, that's exactly the stance the majority (I'd say "all," but I certainly can't speak for those I haven't met, even if ALL the people I've discussed this with have the same thoughts as I) of atheists take in regard to the god question. It would be nice to believe, especially in an afterlife, but I can no more force that belief than I can return to a belief in Santa. Honestly. I live as quiet, unobtrusive of a life one can possibly live, so there's certainly no selfish reasons for my lack of belief; there's absolutely NOTHING I want to do that would cause others or myself harm. It's solely an intellectual thing for me, even if it turns out to be the wrong belief. Lacking belief in no way makes me feel like I can be an immoral person, any more than thinking that if I speed on the highway in front of a police officer, I won't get pulled over and given a ticket. We have a ton of people and authorities to answer to right here on this planet, so atheists are no more likely to think they're skirting responsibility for their lack of belief and their behavior than say, Christians think they're skirting responsibility by not following the requirements for living that come from the Koran.
Last one, and thank you for your time. :o)
I don't know if I'll get the chance to check back or not, but I hope beyond hope that you'll find better ways to understand and respect atheists, and that you can help contribute to peace in the world, rather than the divisions we see so often. Atheists are NOT your enemy, and we don't want to be. We just want to do what we can to make the world a better place, and we all have to start with ourselves. If there's no higher power to help those changes come about, then we're all in serious trouble if we sit back just waiting for things to change without lifting a finger to make that difference in the world. We have an obligation to mankind to do what we can, and in your case, an obligation toward your god, to do the best we can to make this world as peaceful of a place as we can get. Sitting back and blaming others doesn't help anyone, including yourselves. We need to figure out how to share this planet with each other and do what we can to make it as much of a heaven on earth as we possibly can.
Oy.
Well, Cindy, it is sad, and I was just wondering today how people without faith deal with horrible things. Yes, there are family & friends, but sometimes even they can't give us what we need. I'm in physical therapy for something no one other than my husband and two doctors know about. I cannot and would not tell anyone what this is, ever. But I do have Jesus to talk to and cry to about it and I know He listens.
It's interesting how events change the course of people's lives. I feel very badly for Ms. Heard and understand how something so horrible just snapped away any possible belief in God. That said, when I was 14, one of my best friends had her throat slit by men she thought were friends before she was decapitated, mutilated, dismembered and had her body parts stuffed into a car trunk and refrigerator when I was sixteen. I never blamed God, and I don't say that out of pride; indeed, I'm very grateful I didn't get angry at Him and somehow see Him as being at fault! If anything I just leaned on Him more, as well as the love of family and friends.
That said, I've read all of Rand's books and have four of them on my bookshelves. Christians should be able to read things that contain things that disagree quite strongly with our beliefs and be able to recognize lies from truth - of which there is quite a bit in Rand's canon. Indeed, her works might be good for some Christians to read and understand, as many Christians are as adoring of the welfare state as their socialist, Godless buddies.
As far as non-believers hating us because we're 'mean', that is not always true. It's a fact that preaching the Good News ticks people off. Speak the Word of God and you'll be hated, by believers and non-believers alike. We really need to come to terms with that. Even speaking of God's love can and will bring hatred, abuse, and even death upon the heads of believers.
Thanks to everyone for the comments. Cat, your comments were respectful, and I appreciate you having the freedom to express them here. (Interestingly, though, I fail to see where I indicated that Amber Heard could change her disbelief.)
You say that nonbelievers cannot change the fact that they don't believe. You're right. Only the Holy Spirit can effect that kind of change in someone's mind...and it has happened many, many times. Atheists have become believers. Ask C. S. Lewis, for one prominent example.
I think it's sad. When I counseled teenage girls, a lot of them didn't believe in God because of the terrible things they'd been through. It shouldn't anger us that this young woman loathes Christianity, it should break our hearts.
Jesus said "If they first hated me, they will also hate you."
Sorry, it isn't at my fingertips to give the verse, but it is really part of our jobs to be hated.
America is still the best place for Christians to live. In some countries, being a Christian can get you killed. In America, it can get you elected.
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