My vote is for Howard da Silva, but only as Benjamin Franklin in the lovely film adaptation of 1776.
I say this as someone who admires him and grew up on a street named after him, but I don't know why Einstein would end up on such a list. Besides the fact that (as you point out) he was barely American, his contributions were all in theoretical physics, and had essentially no effect on life as we live it. I think people gravitate toward him because he comes off like a modern Buddha figure: old, non-threatening, wise, above the fray. As far as his actual work, it's barely understood by lay people and mostly impractical (except for a tangential connection to the atom bomb).
Yes, understanding the universe has no bearing on our lives. I'll give you his questionable national identity, but don't pretend that he didn't realign global notions of intellectualism and academia. His contributions aren't measurable in lightbulbs or Amendments, but that doesn't mean he wasn't a toweringly influential figure.
Or did you just sublimate your pro-Reagan rage into this comment?
(Rage-en)
How about Alex Trebek, Yaron? Oh, sorry, tactless.
Actually, you had me until "intellectualism and academia". If you had said "the nature of time" I might have seen your point, but this one I just didn't get. Or I guess I'm pretending away.
The thing is, I just don't see that the average person understands what he discovered at all. Which is not a knock on the average person, because it's all rather esoteric.
Trebek? Now there's a great man. Wise. Great and wise man.
You're not my brother! Are you?
Come come now, Abe. This is a friendly place of chat.
I agree Yaron, that most people seem to appreciate Einstein more as a pop culture figure than a scientist. And yes, while plenty of people could remembe "e=mc2" I doubt they know what any of the letters stand for.
But, and please help a poor ignorant drama major here, aren't plenty of things we use in daily live only possible because of Einstein's theories? Like, aren't radio and TV distinctly post-Relativity inventions? Or am I completely misinterpreting things I've heard?
I would like to point out that Yaron played Dr. Herman Einstein in ARSENIC AND OLD LACE with me (Mortimer) and Rob (Teddy) in High School.
(I was told I got things pretty much right in my play THREE STORY HOUSE when an Einsteinesque character describes some elements of Relativity to the family)
No, radio was invented when Einstein was about 10; TV came about in the 20's, but it too had nothing to do with his theories. I think you've been misinformed. The one piece of technology that Einstein's sometimes connected to is the atomic bomb, but even there the connection is tenuous.
Guilty as charged on Arsenic and Old Lace; I was going to mention it, but it didn't seem apropos enough. Especially since I did grow up on Albert Einstein Street. Good times, though.
Stealing others words, but the point is well made:
"Einstein's relativity theory gave rise to a particular philosophical approach to science called logical positivism. Inspired by Einstein's method of defining concepts in terms of laboratory experiments, the logical positivists held that the only statements that we can know to be true are those that positive experimental evidence can verify. They also emphasized the role of symbolic logic in the formulation of scientific theories"
"Einstein's legacy also sparked a new public perception of the role of the scientist in society. Einstein believed that the scientist has a moral responsibility to humanity. In addition to his scientific publications, he published popular tracts on themes such as religion, human rights, economics, government, nuclear war, and personal development. He was an outspoken supporter of pacifism, internationalism, democracy, and human dignity. In all of these capacities, Einstein helped transform the image of the scientist from a highly specialized student of nature to a public personality deeply concerned about the fate of humanity."
As for the statement that the average american doesn't know about Einstein: the average american doesn't exactly know a heck of a lot...
Just look at public polls in politics:
(here's a few issues as a sample)
- Whether Saddam Hussein was directly involved in 9/11.
- Whether Social Security is going to run out by the time their kids retire.
- Whether "reality shows" make good TV.
- Whether the recent tax "cuts" have really gone to the "middle class."
Well, some reality shows make pretty damn good TV ...
Not necessarily good for you, but still.
And Yaron, yeah ARSENIC was probably the most fun I had in high school. Fun show of course, and I think a pretty decent production of it, as high school productions of slighty creaky Broadway comedies go, but more importantly it was a great chance to pal around with you and Rob, and Dave, and MDave, and JJ, and Abby, and Brandy, and all the various and sundry gang. Granted, we probably would have been palling around together anyway, but this was a great excuse.
Yeah, I enjoyed it too. Especially the rehearsals. Damn, now it's hard for me to employ the strong rhetorical assault I would have wanted against Dave. Dave, let me just say that by bringing in (a) an obscure branch of philosophy, (b) a conception of scientist-as-public-figure that basically started and ended with Einstein, and (c) unrelated political issues into the discussion, you make the point about his fundamental irrelevance in a stronger way than even I would have.
Yaron - you claim he isn't important because his work "is barely understood by lay people" - my point is, that is a pitiful measure of success. Heck, a "lay person" wouldn't understand the field you work in, or the field *I* work in. The fact that someone's work can't be boiled down to a 3 sentence summary to explain to the uneducated doesn't mean they aren't relevant.
As for Einstein as a public figure and being a role-model for scientists, Einstein stood out from the rest. He provided scientists with a new image, a new voice, and inspired generations to pursue scientific innovation.
As for the "obscure branch of philosophy" - He certainly created debate in new directions, much akin to B.F. Skinner. Just because it fell behind other more popular theories doesn't mean it doesn't have importance.
(C'mon, Positivism was the dominant theory of the philosophy of science between World War I and the Cold War. Challenging issues such as God and good and evil being irrelevant wasn't exactly an easy issue to touch)
Einstein really should be the primary target of you disdain on a list that includes Oprah. Time well spent buddy, good onya.
A stronger way than even you would have? Even YOU? My world is falling apart, Yaron. Please, Oh dear G-d please, reassert your rhetorical dominance or I won't understand life as I live it.
Fundamental irrelevance. Wow. MIT?
I'm thrilled Franklin is on the list, though I would include Oprah too, if modern Americans are to be counted.
Fine, Oprah's a fat cow. There, happy now, o hater-of-uplifting-daytime-TV?
A stronger way than even you would have? Even YOU?
The point being, he's trying to argue the other side but accidentally ends up making my case. Get it? I don't think Einstein's irrelevant, by the way.
Hey, I'm an engineer, not a scientist. We have our differences.
Frankly I'm beginning to doubt this whole "my brother" thing too.
"Made your case?" Man, good thing you aren't a lawyer, cause snarky responses without any additional imput or support doesn't get you too far in a debate.
I guess I don't understand why you always seem to respond with some sarcastic comment without responding to the issue at hand... Sortof like Fox News.
I don't think I was sarcastic to you, just to Abe (he of the vicious personal slanders!)
My point, which I've made before, but let me make it again, is that all the things you list are evidence that he's an important person, but they don't justify why he always ends up near the top of the lists. My theory is that it's because of his universal status as an all-knowing but lovable guru - a sort of collective grandfather to the world. And since the examples you bring up are important but not exactly earth-shattering, you end up making my point for me.
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