Pas la peine de chialer ...
How can the French like others? They hate themselves--and with good cause, I might add.
i'm sorry you had that lousy experience; it made me sad reading it.
What do you expect of people still bemoaning their loss of power? They are... despicable...
Don't feel bad at all. The idea that he thought that someone deserved to die to prop his egoism about his view of the world deserves that kind of response.
If his moral violence meets a few harsh words, he is still getting the petter part of the deal.
I repeat that we should remove our dead from Normandy.
As well as our living from Germany.
There will be a sharp reduction soon. Two division at 75 percent strength coming home to be replaced by one brigade (25 percent of a division). Plus dependants, hundreds of US civil servants and laid off germans.
You have proved that jerks reside in France. I think that is true of every corner of the world where humans live, but I could be wrong.
Chip, meet shoulder...
from the article that Erik himslef linked to (the photo of him with the rambo bandanna lighting candles- what sacrifice):
"Graciously, we’ve been showered with genuine expressions of sympathy and solidarity from non-American friends, colleagues and neighbors, many of whom we might otherwise have spoken to rarely or with whom the daily cloisson of reserved Parisian behavior remained a barrier. Following the initial shock of disbelief, my first tears were neither in front of a CNN report nor upon hearing the voice of my brother from his New York office saying that he was safe. I choked up, though, with emotion when my Algerian butcher in Montreuil, the guy whom I’ve known only for his lamb chops and sprigs of mint leaves, looked at me with the saddest eyes on earth and said “Je suis vraiment desolé, mon ami.”
Filou - does that make the way he confronted the man very please by death wrong?
Becuase of their connection with Paris, does that make them all the same person to you?
no Joe, that's true but it shows that it's more complicated than a choice between the "they all love us" or "they all hate us" options.
De quelle planète Filou a-t'il débarqué? I never pretended that wearing a bandanna was a sacrifice nor that I should, in any manner, be lauded for that gesture nor that it had anything to do with the alleged heroics of the character in the movies of Sylvester Stallone.
I think that one can infer that, by the same token, Filou disparages all the people stateside who wear the yellow support-the-troops pin on their breasts and/or who sport the sticker on their vehicles.
One will have noted:
1) how Filou brushes to the side anything he doesn't agree with, including
A) the following sentence
"Those [comments] give quite a different context to the expressions of friendship such as those seen by clicking on the photo above. As many of our French commentators make clear, what is said in public (and nobody denies Europeans' mastery in handling the délicatesse of diplomacy) and what is said behind one's back can be quite a different matter; in any case, the friendship is tinged (soaked, rather) with (self-serving) paternalism"
B) and the much more important link to John Rosenthal's Legend of the Squandered Sympathy
and 2) how (in that respect) he, in typical fashion, refrains from addressing the issue in the post, preferring instead to kill (dismiss, castigate, or ridicule) the messenger.
Excuse me for the whiff of contempt in my comments, but as a resident of New York City at the time of the tower's fall, I have little sympathy for your stories of victimization by "the French" -- your encounters with some obnoxious individuals which you take to be proof of the undying treachery of the French nation. Four years later, are you not tired of your grudges and recriminations? We, New Yorkers, are over it. Shouldn't you be? What "issue" is there to discuss, here, exactly?
N.B.: this coming from a blog that has wished death on the French head of state and has snickered endlessly about 10,000 french elderly dying in a heat wave.
In my 25 years of study and travel in France, I have always been treated personally with respect - and so has the United States. I am now a leftwing Democrat - but when I started out, I was a Nixon voter (1972).
When I was in Paris, six weeks after 9/11 and staying on the Ile St. Louis, the signs were still up, supporting Americans. I still have a photo of one in a small bistro - "Dear Americans, We are very very sad and we are very angry."
I am sorry no Parisians expressed their sympathy to you - but if you have been as consistently nasty and mean-spirited in person as you are here in writing, I am not surprised.
No, Filou, no. You don't get it. You don't get it at all. I am not whining here, I am not playing the victim.
The French are. The French are playing the victims of the Yanks, and they have been so for years, and for decades, if not longer, and they like to think the rest of the world is, as well (which explains Chirac's disbelief, and irritation, at the Eastern Europeans who should have "shut up").
As it happens, the victim-playing explains the lack of sympathy on 9-11. Or for any other disaster befalling America, for that matter. And the schadenfreude for the GIs' difficuty in Iraq. And many other things, as documented on this blog.
That is what this blog is here to report. We tell what we see. We tell what we see again, and again, and again. And among the things we see is that among the things to be found underneath the proclamations of friendship for "nos amis américains" is a lot of scorn of the paternalistic type, things they don't necessarily make a lot of noise about. They support the Americans -- but as children, as a child who got burned because he or she didn't listen to Frenchmen's natural lucidité. (Like frisbeedog, I have also always been treated personally with respect -- as long as I agreed to the self-evident notion that Americans were idiots, that their allies were despicable poodles, and that Europeans were far better equipped to handle the problems of the globe.)
Aren't you the type, Filou, who is always saying -- albeit (only) in regards to Uncle Sam -- we must look at what lies underneath, we must look at the real reasons, we must search for the truth. Well, we believe that applying that treatment only to George W Bush is unfair, and we think that, among others, the cynics (individuals and nations) who are always putting Washington's policies into doubt and calling them treacherous deserve perhaps the same treatment. (But with America, it is natural; with anybody else, it is being "consistently nasty and mean-spirited".)
That's the issue, Filou. That's the issue. When that mentality is prevalent, that is what causes a people to, say, applaud their leaders and élite for opposing the Yankee bogeyman and ignore when they try to sell weapons to China or when they cozy up to Russia, or to dictators like... Saddam Hussein.
Notwithstanding your resolution to speak for 8,000,000 New Yorkers (number correct?), I notice that if you (you alone or all of you?) are over 9-11, you don't seem to be over Bush's 2000 election win. You don't seem to be over Ronald Reagan's presidency for that matter. For a person who is scandalized at one of our webmaster's tongue-in-cheek refusal to shed tears over the death of Chirac, I don't remember having seen ever your name in blogs wishing, in all seriousness, to have George W Bush murdered.
Not to speak of calls to be shot from mainstream European politicians. Indeed, Filou, for someone appalled and scandalized about alleged calls for murder, unless I am mistaken, you never expressed your dismay regarding the above post...
Well, Filou, that's the kind of double standards this website was set up to address... and if you and/or the like of frisbeedog calls us "consistently nasty and mean-spirited" for doing nothing but describing what we experience and witness (incredible that frisbeedog couldn't even bring himself to call the reactions I, Bill, and John witnessed "nasty and mean-spirited"), then so be it...
hi , i'm a french guy from paris ,21 years old.
i just wanted to say that all the fench are not like the person you met ,
, even in le monde and liberation they wrote "we are all americans ", chirac was the first president to condamn and france participated to the war in afghanistan ,and the cia said that the french services are very usefull to struggle against terrorism. so you only like to caricaturate french people , , to say that we are all stupid and monsters , it's in your dreams .
moerover i did'nt see
any people who were happy or said that american deserved this attack.
bye
xavier - Sorry, but two weeks later the same bozo who wrote 'nous sommes tous americains' revised his history and joined in as a charter member of the blame America crowd. Nice try, though. Would you like to try again for double or nothing?
frisbeedog - You obviously never read the wisdom of Winston Churchill. Can you give us the Cliffs Notes version on your evolution? Was it all because of Nixon? I can understand being pissed off at Republicans for awhile because of that. But you should also recall that Republicans threw Nixon overboard, showing a lot more devotion to Constitutional principles than what took place in the 1990s.
Glad to hear you get along with the French. But have you managed this only by functioning as an apologist for your country's foreign policy? If so, I suggest you stay in France permanently. The last thing America needs is more Kerry voters.
You ain't a new yorker filou fuck...you're just scum who needs to go back to your shithole country. Now.
filou - Knowing the persona you project, I doubt you had anything to get over after 9/11 aside from safeguarding your sorry keister.
Now get out of my country.
filou - I remind you of your very lucide expression of amities in a recent private e-mail to me:
Fuck off and die, asshole.
So I'd say that if anybody is hypocritical about lectures concerning the wishing of death on other people, it's you.
Now get out of my country.
Comment pouvez-vous vous abaisser a parler a des froncés?
You can speak OF them, or AGAINST them, but why do you bother speaking TO them?
Abuse? It probably thinks of it as compliments!
Sorry Charlie, but you are whining here and I find it symptomatic of your increasingly reductive rants against the French. BORING!
Vous commencez à nous les briser menu avec votre reference au 11 septembre ; ces morts malheureux re presentent une infime partie des morts français qui ont reçu des bombes amèricaines sur la gueule ; bien sur les ricains bombardaient à haute altitude ; vous comprenez la FLAK c'est dangereux , les british avaient plus de couilles et bombardaient à basse altitude ; surtout ne me dites pas que c'est pour notre liberte ; d'une part les bombardements sur les civils ,ne servaient à rien , d'autre part d day n'a pas ete fait pour libérer la france, mais pour empecher staline qui etait en train de gagner la guerre ,d'envahir l'europe; si les ricains avaient été de véritables amis ils nous auraient aides en mai 1940, ou étaient les divisions us ??, ils ont attendu pearl harbour pour commencer à s'interesser à l'europe !! quant au canadien anglophone , tu ferais bien de fermer ta grande gueule de sous redneck
Erik:
That was to be expected from Parisain journalists. I know other French. A woman who two years later had a screensaver about 9/11, another with an american flag at her office and people in Normandy who go to flower the tombs at the Coleville cemntery.
But Parisans and still more the French pseudo-intelligentsia hate your guts. They will never forfive America for their own mediocrity.
Nero
Si les français avaient été dignes d''être aidés ils n'auraient pas collaboré.
hi it's not true that journalists didn't support usa after the attack , they supported the war in afghanistan , , it's normal because talibans were crazy and they began to attack first, moreover french army is still there and french people supports this war .
journalists began to criticize usa for the war in iraq , it's all.they said taht iraq didn't attack ths usa , so there is no reson to do a war .and it's all....
quant a toi nero , tu petes les plombs , et t'exageres , j'ai
honte .
tu peux pas critiquer les usa d'avoir tuer des civils , les armes etaient moins sophistiqué et SURTOUT , il fallait bien le faire
d'ailleurs heureusement les francais avaient bien compreis ca, tu tiens le meme discours que laval et petain qui disaient que les usa etaient notre ennemi parce qu'ils faisaient plus de mal que de bien.
et pis je rappelle que ct qd meme a nous de se battre non??????
pourquoi les usa serainet venus en 40, toi tu viendrais te battre la bas? je pense que non .
en 40 ct aux farncais de se battre , c notre pays et voila on va pas demander aux autres de se battre a notre place.
malheuireusement c qd meme ce qui s'est passé en 44 meme ssi les americains ne sont pas venus que pour nous liberer aussi pour limiter staline comme tu dis , ca n'empeche qu'il y eu des milliers de soldats tues morts en france qui n'avaient rien demandé , et qui avait rien a voir avec tout ca , ils sont morts pendant que les francais etaient planques dans les caves c tout , la resistance je susi etudiant ct 5% des hommes voila c tout , c honteux mais c la verité fo bien la voir un jour. les autres francais ct pas des collabos( que a peu pres 2 ou 3 %) mais ils etaient tous planques et cherchaient a survivre voila c tout.
on avait ni les armes ni le courage pour se debarrasser des nazis,.
donc voila t'abuses.
"You ain't a new yorker filou fuck...you're just scum who needs to go back to your shithole country. Now."
Dos Equis
"Now get out of my country."
Frank P. Hart
Yeah, guys, you rock !!!
Xavier,
The criticism started on September 12th, 2001 - 3 paragraphs into LM's "We are all Americans" article. There is a body of evidence out there that they could never conceal.
What's wrong is wrong, it doesn't end with people playing along with a comfortable, self-pitying european elite's polite fiction.
Comments should be registration only if you're going to delete them... coward.
Comments should be registration only if you're going to delete them... coward.
You're really quite an impressive bunch of pea-brained fucktards. I am consistently amazed.
Joe - I don't see why you deleted filou's last comment affirming his wish of death upon a fellow human.
It's a fabulous illustration of filou's version of French double-standards: He can wish death upon anyone he wishes, but anyone wishing for Chirac's end is a bloodthirsty chimp.
Only a Frenchman inculcated with the idea of the superiority of things French could call that sound thinking.
What's so hard about amazing a piece of whale shit?
Get out filou fuck.
Nero,
Congratulations! You set a new definition for "pig ignorant." Before anymore comments on US/UK bombing look up the casualties. Brits used night time and had some cover. US went in daytime -- horrendous in flak. Norden bombsight used by allies was most accurate, but still mass bombing was needed. German used high altitude bombing also, usually above brit flak -- saw no mention of that.
Stalin couldn't have gotten anywhere without US materiel and munitions. US/UK merchant marine casualties were also horrendous delivering the goods.
Germans, who lived in Berlin during the Russian invasion, told me they saw mostly US supplied equipment in Russian hands.
As to why no help in 1940, US was neutral. We actually tried to give peace a chance -- a lot of good it did us.
God rest Bomber Harris!
Nero a écrit:
" si les ricains avaient été de véritables amis ils nous auraient aides en mai 1940."
>> En 1940, en France précisément, aucun corps constitué, aucun parti, aucune structure collective, n’a appelé à résister...
Nero:"quant au canadien anglophone , tu ferais bien de fermer ta grande gueule de sous redneck"
>>Et le nuque-rouge Français francophone :o) tu sais ce qu'il te dit ?
XX - You're insulting whales. At least their sh*t doesn't stink.
Frank, can I tell everyone about your brave tale of survival in the hard-knock 5eme arrondissement of Paris yet? When you turned tail and ran away from an old lady like the little bitch you are?
filou - You can tell anyone anything you want, you peurile little adolescent pissant. Who would believe you, anyway? And besides, I think the webmasters can probably dredge up the archives so that we can compare your hyperbolic version of the story to the one I wrote. But then, you work for the NY Slimes, so revisionist history is your specialty.
"You're really quite an impressive bunch of pea-brained fucktards. I am consistently amazed."
You obviously know a "pea-brained fucktard" when you see one. All of that exposure to those "pea-brained fucktards" like Maureen Dowd, Paul Krugman, Frank Rich and Walter Duranty (the all-time grand poobah fucktard of all time) at the NY Times has obviously made you an expert in recognizing one!
Don - I'd say it takes a pea-brained f*cktard to know one. Obviously filou knows himself well.
Les commontaires des froncés sont tout-à-fé impressionnonts!
Si encore ils étaient drôles.....
I`d like them, if only they`d stay home!
"As to why no help in 1940 us was neutral"; ben allons donc, c'est facile comme réponse , on se proclame neutre , hitler pas concerné , çà nous est indifferent , les juifs qui commencent à etre persécutés ,on veut pas le savoir , on laisse 40 millions de français contre un dictateur et 80 millions d'allemand qui viennnent de battre la pologne en 10 jours , mais c'est pas notre affaire , les français et les brits n'ont qu'à se demerder , et maintenant par contre on nous reprochede ne pas venir vous aider en irak!!"as to why no help in 2003 france was neutral "
Nero - For France to be neutral with regards to Iraq, France should have abstained in the UN Security Council rather than being Saddam's cheer leader. France also should have abstained from applying diplomatic pressure within NATO against Turkey, which affected US military deployments. And most importantly, France should not have supplied Iraq with French weapons in 2002 and 2003 -- in direct violation of the UN ban on such sales.
The reality is that France was not neutral. France was -- and is -- a de-facto enemy of the United States. That's reality. So take your warped world view and stick it up your posterior.
BTW, nice handle. Perfectly appropriate for someone standing by while France slowly transforms itself into the first Islamic republic in western Europe. The boiling frog metaphor is perfect for France and Frenchmen.
frank, I think the word in fransaise you are looking for is 'pisseur.' I might add BoBo pisseur.
Fronce has never been neutral! She has always been and will always be a meddling old concierge, trying in vain to recapture her ancient glory.
Vive la Corse libreuuuuu!
Nero
Si les Francais ne se traouvaient pas assez nombreux face aux Allemands ils n'avaient qu'a ne pas abandonner les Tcheques et les Polonais, cela aurait fait du monde en plus. Je constate aussi que tout a coup tu oublies l'empire etles cinquante et quelques millions de Britanniques (plus leur empire). Et que tu n'as pas un mot de reproche pour la puissance qui s'etait allié aux Nazis et dont les agents se sont lancés dans une campagne de démoralisation et de sabotage envers l'armée française. Je veux parler bien sûr, respectivement de l'Union Soviétique et du parti communiste. C'est drole que tu sois muet la dessus.
Au surplus quand on cosntate l'effroyable incapacité des grands généraux français si les Americains avaient envoyé des troupes cela aurait fait autant de prisonniers en plus pour les Allemands. La defaite n'est pas venue du manque de troupes et de matériel (on en avait autant que l'Allemmagne) mais de la veulerie et de l'incapacité des élites françaises.
Xavier wrote:
"i just wanted to say that all the fench are not like the person you met."
Sure. I'm not one of them too - I felt compassion for victims and wrath for perpetrators / supporters / know-it-all guys, alongside Americans.
That's why I left France. I just felt too alien inside.
Xavier, you should leave too.
J'ai une très grande estime pour l'Amérique, pour ses principes, pour sa détermination. Tout l'inverse de ce que j'éprouve pour la France.
J'étais au bureau, dans le 8e, le 11 septembre 2001. Je travaille avec des gens qui sont plus scolarisés que la moyenne.
Une heure après le drame, l'un des collègue français que j'apprécie le plus a fait le premier cette remarque qui me sidéra : "C'est horrible, mais ils l'ont quand même cherché...".
Cette remarque, je l'entedis plusieurs fois dans les jours qui suivirent.
J'étais en France depuis un an à cet époque et j'ignorais tout de l'anti-américanisme qui y sévissait. Cette phrase fut toutefois un déclic. Depuis, rare sont les conversations, les articles de journaux, les émissions de télé françaises évoquant l'amérique qui n'aientt ajouté leur pointe de sarcasme.
Chaque fois, la France perd du lustre à mes yeux. J'avais considéré un jour m'installer en France. Je sais maintenant que je ne pourrais pas rester.
Anecdote : dans un marché de Colmar, je portais un vieux tshirt blanc que j'avais gagné dans un meeting chez Microsoft. Il y était écrit en petites lettres pâlissantes : www. microsoft . com. Rien d'ostentatoire.
Une femme qui passait s'en est aperçu, s'est retournée et m'a dit d'une voix assez forte pour ameuter tout le monde à la ronde : "Microsoft ??? ha ha ha, mais pourquoi pas Bill Gates ??? Microsoft !!!".
J'aurais porté un tshirt avec une tête de Bush écorchée, ç'aurait plu. Mais Microsoft !
I spent weeks afterward combing through websites concerned for people I used to work with. What an awakening 9/11 and the aftermath has been.
stephane il ne faut pas exagerer
bon les francais ne sont pas si "horibles et anti americains" ils critiquent bush ca c'est sur , c'est surement un peu exagéré mais c'est par contre tres mal vu d'etre raciste et de critiquer betement les americains, du peuple et leur culture.
voila en meme temps ya aucun site où on insulte les usa en france c'est interdit ca . et heureusement donc voila,
on peut dire qu'un site com fuck france ou merde in france c pas non plus sympa et c eux qui donnent des lecons , enfin bon
xavier - Those sentiments exist in France, whether or not they are "permitted" by law. This is just another example of how stupid "hate speech" laws are. The reality in France is that all manner of hate is propounded every day in the media and on the streets -- hate for America, hate for anglos in general, hate for Israel, ... etc. etc.
look is awesome! kosmetik alexander rechtsanwalt mit kuchen
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