Nzingha's Soapbox
SubhanAllah.
When I look around I am sickened by the display ppl make of themselves. No one has shyness, and the morality everywhere is declining. But some parents are waking up and trying now to teach their children that sex before marriage is wrong, even is non Muslim countries. Of course that is impossible though without religion... I mean what else, besides religion is teaching them that sex b4 marriage is immoral? Anyhow, ppl really need to wake up. And to be honest, the way many muslims behave sickens me - this whole dating stuff is rampant in Cairo... and as soon as women start dating, sex and everything else is only a sidestep away. Ppl really need to wake up. That is what I think. Its sick. Sicksicksick 
Umm Travis- I, as a convert who moved to saudi thinking this wasn't one of the issues I would really have to deal with had a rude awakening when I saw what was going on. Even Mr. Man mentions how things have changed so drastically with these issues in the years he was gone.
And interesting point "Of course that is impossible though without religion... I mean what else, besides religion is teaching them that sex b4 marriage is immoral?"
inshallah this is a short fling that our socieities will quickly snap out of and realize how wrong it is.
EXCELLENT post, Nzingha!! You laid down many many important points that many of these girls do not think about before giving themselves up so easily to a scum bag! It is called being "young and stupid"!
What is BS is the difference of treatment and freedom between the boys and the girls when religiously speaking, if everyone were to follow God's laws correctly, both are equal and everyone would be held accountable!!
Sex before marriage, Dating, you name it, is an issue addressed to both sexes. God did not favor one over the other. This is cultural BS and it is extremely wrong!
I also believe just as much emphasis is being put on the girls in being educated about how not to commit sin etc, the same should be put on the boys! I don't think it is being said enough for the boys.
I think Saudi boys in actuality are being taught at a young age to run after what ever they want and pursue till you get! Then they are told, if you don't get it, you are not a man enough! Hence, running after girls among their pals is one of them!!
I think many mothers in Saudi, especially, love the idea of having their son wanted by so many girls. It is like an ego boost or something. Who knows! But certainly, it is bad teaching from a young age when the moms say "Oh, he is such a cutie, you better watch out, all the girls in the future are going to be wanting him" and then everyone just laughs...........ha, ha, ha!
If my sons run after women or I find out that they have indulged in fornication, and left the girl, and continuing hopping from one to the other, their balls are mine!! LOLOL
I am one who actually puts more emphasis on boys and expects better conduct from them, than the girls! Not that a girl should not be held accountable. But a girl is simply that a girl and girls are known for being emotionally weaker than boys! When they fall, they fall hard and fast, and even faster if she has self-esteem issues. She is not going to think about any types of repercussions.
And what is sad, is you will find many many guys out there who will do just that, take advantage of a girl who can be easily manipulated!! Why should they care or think twice about what they are doing? For one, they probably know they will get away with it, two, they need to fill their sexual libido at any cost, and three, they don't have to worry about showing anything(i.e...pregnancy, baby bump!).
Sorry for the long post!
Manal- ditto!!! I feel totally the same way about how boys are treated here. Their prefernce to the attitude in which they are brought up with that not only tells them they should have anything they want..but that women are there to serve them on one leve or another.
And I would have more than balls if it were my son. I've made it clear as my kids watched the local saudi boys chasing after girls in taxis on the corniche that i will "Kick your butt Jihad if you ever turn out to be one of these punks!!!" he is reminded all the time this mama will call him on his wrongs and knock him out
Great post, masha'Allah. It's definitely best to keep out of trouble, particularly when you know the double standard exists that will get you more severely punished than the opposite sex.
EXCELLENT post,
I'm very disappointed by the moral status in KSA,
While girls definitely should have concern for their morals and safety when out and about and when dealing with boys...boys should be raised to respect and behave themselves with girls...period. We tend to forget that those boys that are out there catcalling girls...harassing girls...throwing their mobile numbers at girls...or making relationships with them just to "get some"...those boys have mothers at home that raised them to believe they could behave that way and get away with it. Mothers are the raisers of children...period. I dont care what anyone else says...your children act the way they do cause mothers either do or do not raise them right...period. (this of course does not pertain to children that are not raised by a mother...but then again...aunts and sisters and grandmas can do the same sort of damage).
coolred- girls in saudi shouldn't be out dealing with boys period. I think one should start there. And when they do the realities of this culture, and you know this, puts the blame on the female. The boys are let off, excused, forgiven, and they move on. But what happens to the girls? Exactly what I said in my post.
dont get confused and think I'm blaming only girls, what I'm pointing out is the realities that will affect girls in the decision to date. Boys will walk away, unfortunately most girls won't.
yes i believe that boys should be raised with respect towards girls/women. Yes i believe that boys should be held accountable just like the girls. I hold firm to that belief and raise my boys that way.
I agree with much of what has been said. I do think however that boys are not always let off so easily. I know directly of a situation where a married foreign medical doctor had an affair with a Saudi woman from a prominent family. Her family warned him to stop and when he didn't had him killed. He was found stabbed to death in a parking lot. A high price to pay for his narcissism.
Now this is what I call keeping it real! Fa real!
While I prefer my children avoid all that is haram out of obediance to Allah, I do realize that sometimes one needs to be scared straight!
I don't think it is a Saudi cultural thing that boys get off easy. I found that in America as well. Guys are encouraged to play around, while girls would be called sluts or easy.
I didn't grow up in a religious house, so I can not say that I avoided hany panky out of Fear of Allah. Rather, it was my mother who put the fear in me. She never even mentioned anything about marriage and I had no concept of what a sin was (had never heard the word used in a religious context until I went away to college), but my mother was very open (too open) about sex and told be I better not ever...and the whole pregnancy scare and all. However, my brother was another story. She cheered him on and found no harm in anything...until he got this girl pregnant!
I have been trying for years to understand the double standard, but have yet to wrap my head it. Still, we all agreee the consequences are much greater for a woman. You know this new vaccine they are pushing on young girls does not have a male-prevention equivalent, even though they are the carriers and spreaders.
~Sigh
Men are the carriers and spreaders of HPV? Last I heard, when an uninfected male has sex with an infected female he gets the virus. Which would also make a woman a carrier and a spreader.
And men don't get cancer from HPV. And the strains of HPV the vaccine was developed against have basically no adverse health effects in a man whatsoever. So why would a man voluntarily shell out $400 on a vaccine against something that he will never get. Likewise, why would pharm companies pour money into developing a vaccine that men will not pay the money for. Pure economics really.
Excuse me anon I should say-they are ALSO carriers and spreaders. Right, we are only looking at the physical concerns of men--that is the under pinnings to the double standard. Let's look at the economics of birth control too. Why isn't there a patch or a pill for men, because again they won't be saddled with the outcome of an unwanted pregnancy so why should they shell out the bucks for a preventitve pill or patch? Yes, some men do use condoms but according to the rates of teen and single-motherhood it is fair to say that not enough contraception is used by all parties. A condom is the most readily available contraception for a man whose "partner" is not already "practicing" some other form--which don't kick in right away like a condom.
As more and more men are being held financially responsible for their indiscrepencies, I'm sure they will soon flock to the first pharmaceutical company that develops a more comfortable form of male birth control--such as a pill or a patch.
If HPV bothered men physically, of course they would want a vaccine, but unfortunately since they only inconvience someone else by spreading it, their conscience is completely undisturbed--why do we allow men to be like this? It's just not his problem, right?
Actually the BC example you gave is a pretty good one. Although simple biological mechanisms might also play a role in BC development, not just double standards with regards to sex between men and women (although I don't deny that is a very large component) If you think about how much easier it is to control the release of 1 egg every month versus millions upon millions of little swimmers on a daily basis of which it requires only 1 for a pregnancy to result. I'd probably take my chances with the egg.
Anyways, I don't see these double standards with regards to sex/dating/etc being eliminated anytime soon. Especially considering that women often seem especially fond of propogating them, what with the labeling of other women as sluts, skanks, hos and all that usually based on nothing more than the fact that a woman happens to be wearing a skirt shorter than what we approve of or wear.
True, you don't much hear men being labled sluts, skanks, hos based on their appearance and very seldom on their behavior. Another double standard with limits/lablels applied to women and men having wordly inconsequential free reign.
chiara- yes some families do catch up with the boy/man and the live to regret it or don't live at all. When I speak of boys getting away with it I mean amongst their immediate family as well as socieites tendency to overlook the males wrong doings. I know most families will beat down the boy if they catch him with their girls.
Umm Adam- I think scared straight works sometimes.. hence the you have both..the threat of hell, fire and torment, and the beauties of heaven and all its blessings. People are motivated differently.
I do agree that overall boys are treated differently when it comes to sexual issues and Saudi doens't hold a monopoly on it.
about the HPV vaccine- HPV does cause anal cancer and it does affect men. although it seems to affect more HIV positive and gay men than anything. There is research being done on marketing the vaccines to men and yes they can be used on men.
I'm interested in finding out if Saudi will start to include this among their vaccines list.
N, I was actually referring to your methodology for 'scaring straight'...I loved it! I need to find a balacing act wit my kids. I really want them to practice Islam correctly because it is the truth and to please Allah. I find myself purposely not telling them the 'reality' (outside of religion). This dating topic foe example, of course my kids have not had the talk because they have no concept, they think a 'boyfriend' is a boy that's a friend and we don't watch tv shows so they haven't seen it on tv. However, after reading your post it made me wonder if when I do have that talk with them, should I also inform them of the worldly consequences.
I've recently thought of this with the abaya too. My daughters got there first pair of blue jeans ever yesterday and I told them that when riding their bikes out front they can wear them but that when we leave they must put on their abayas. My girls only wear abayas when they want to and that is not often. There have been times when I wanted to tell them that if they did not put it on then some people may think that they are trashy but I have never said that because I don't want them wearing it for the wrong reason. The reality is that people will size you up, so we have met half way. If they have on a dress or skirt no abaya...if they wear the jeans....abayas. I told them because the jeans are well fitted and they desparately wanted them so they agreed to my terms.
Oh dear. I daren't say too much on this topic, as I'm sure Nzingha knows my western viewpoint.
I will say that as long as the males are allowed to continue believing that it is all the girl's fault for "tempting" him, even the most degenerate rapists will feel justified in their perversions.
And I don't see that happening any time soon, since blaming the girl goes all the way back in time to the 1st man and woman "The woman tempted me, and I did eat..."
Dear Nzingha
I have no doubt you are well aware of retribution perpetrated by a girl's/woman's family; and, I assume in raising boys this would be one of the outcomes of which they would be made aware. None of this precludes the universal double standard which seems to vary from culture to culture only in degree. Some variations are of course more extreme than others! In general, for longterm compliance positive rewards seem to work better than negative punishments; and children need to be aware of cultural particulars as well as whatever universals you teach them.
Dear Sewmouse
A very good point. Just a reminder that Islam has a much more egalitarian, feminist narrative of Adam and Eve.
An excellent topic and blog!
Chiara
Umm Adam- This parenting thing we learn along the way lol.. I'm about to write up a post on discussing puberty and approaching such subjects as my kids grow. I'm so not ready for it all If only I could keep them immature and blissful.
Sew- Viewing the female as a constant temptation in which men are some weak beings unable to control their own urges are a major contributor to so many issues in this culture. My blood boils just thinking about it.
And Chiara is right on that Islam doesn't place the blame on Evi, there is equal blame and one could even argue more blame at some point on Adam. For each made their own choice in the end and the influences of others doesn't negate that we ultimately choose to do right or do wrong.
Chiara- I totally agree that positive reinforcement needs to be the basis. Because once the threat isn't present and they are left to choose in the end, they have to have a strong foundation that will bring them to choose the right rather than the wrong.
glad your enjoying the blog
LOOl, i receantly went saudi (went for the whole relgious experience as i've never lived in a muslim country, boy! did i get a wake up call) Half the things that go on over there are on the same level or if not worse than what goes on in london.... And having bluetooth equipment in jeddah is a nonon, i mean ur walking and you recieve a message from a homonal little teenage saudi, repeating the words he repeated 10,000X before to other girls... And if you look outside your window at night the level of hanky panky... Bred and raised in london and i've never come across the things i did in jeddah never before in my life.... Poor girls they should have social classes like the ones we do in london... there's alot of problems in jeddah and dating is one of many, along with disgusting levels of racism, imaginary superiority i thought as muslims one doesnt see colour... inshallah they'll get over this phase...
Aliya- well won't be telling you anything you haven't figured out already.. Saudi isn't the place to live for a religious experience lol.
And I do hope there are many phases that they'll get over. But something tells me many like where they are at and won't budge.
Commenting by HaloScan
