OW, I don't think average Americans are getting a feeling for what Iraq must be like. The people left in New Orleans aren't average. They are the people that average Americans don't care about - poor and black. Just like they don't care about Iraqis. They only cared about getting rid of Saddam and trying to get cheap gas.
Indeed Molly, just reading comments about looting gives me the creeps.
For years New Orleans has been treated like a second class city.
For many marginalized youth of the Big Easy, this looting communicates "pay-back time". Payback for poorly funded schools, decaying infrastructure, low wages, having to become wage-slaves for the ruling classes.
The state did not do its job in planning for this eventuality--yet the rightwing self-righteously say that they "should have left". The fact that many people did not even own a car isn't even considered.
The wealth being spent to promote a puppet government and control the oil infrastructure in Iraq should be used instead to invest in our own country.
Private opulence and pubic squalor--the story of the squalid, racid consumerist culture that passes for 'civilized' life here in the US.
Steve, you forgot to write it's the end of times, pile up your weapons, yadda, yadda, yadda...
You're losing it.
Tiburon speaks from experience having witnessed the oppositions "end of days".
Tiburon--why don't you key us in to what your usual identity is on the opposition blogs....or are you too scared?
Slave's got your number.
You living in a slave revolt...move aside or be trampled by the emancipation proclaimation.
Check.
Not posting much recently. Every time I've been on the internet I've been reading about what is going on in New Orleans.
What strikes me is the similiar nature of the problem there and in Vargas. The bottom line is when you build in a very risky place - on the side of a mountain or below sea level on a coast - eventually it will come back to bit you in the ass. No amount of tinkering by humans can really avoid that. Yet knowing that, people don't go for the obvious solution which is just not to build and live in these places. I wonder if people just don't know what the risks are or if they do know what they are and are willing to accept them. I think it is that people don't understand the risks and think that governments can do more to protect them than they really can.
Pulpo, I agree. If Tiburon want doom and gloom he can check out the opposition blogs. Or better yet get a subscription to Tal Cual and read the king of "the sky is falling, the country is coming apart at the seems, we can't hang on much longer" ect. etc. When it comes to doom and gloom no one beats Petkoff.
Watch em Squirm:
Posada says Castro is persecuting him
Luis Posada Carriles told an immigration court the Cuban regime is persecuting him and denied admitting he masterminded bombings in Cuba in 1997.
EL PASO - Cuban exile militant Luis Posada Carriles took the witness stand here Tuesday and said he is seeking asylum because Cuban leader Fidel Castro is persecuting him, but then acknowledged having lived and traveled throughout the region without encountering any harm in recent years.
Posada, 77, also denied having admitted in media interviews he was the mastermind of a series of bombings at Cuban tourist sites in 1997. He said one of the interviews, with The New York Times, was in English and therefore he misunderstood questions and misstated his answers because he had difficulty understanding the language. He said he understood similar questions in another interview with a Spanish-language television network but that his answers should not be construed as an admission of guilt.
Bahhhhh Hahhhh Hahhhhhhh Hahhh Hahhhh
/a>
…..Snip
In Miami, meanwhile, Posada's lead attorney -- Eduardo Soto -- disclosed that he planned to file a U.S. citizenship application for his client on the ground he is eligible for naturalization under a law that makes it easier for members and former members of the U.S. military to apply for citizenship.
''All they need to demonstrate is membership in the armed forces during a period of hostility,'' Soto said, adding that his client was a U.S. soldier during the Vietnam War. Soto said he planned to file the application with U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services ``as soon as possible.''
Huh??? CIA Terrorist employed during The Vietnam War? Recognized US involvement was after Tonkin in 64’. We know he was in the Bay of Pigs Fiasco but that was in 61’. This whole argument sounds like crap.
....snip
Russ Knocke, a Homeland Security spokesman, said late Tuesday his agency had major problems with sending Posada to Venezuela.
His statement seemed to be a shift from the agency's position in court Monday when the Homeland Security Prosecutor Gina Garrett Jackson expressed no objection when Judge Abbott designated Venezuela as the place of deportation because Posada was a naturalized citizen of that country.
-------------------snip
INCRIMINATION
In cross-examination, Garrett-Jackson elicited a series of contradictions by Posada about whether he faces imminent danger abroad.
Posada also refused to answer certain questions about using false identities, saying his answers would incriminate him.
But ultimately Posada acknowledged he used one false Salvadoran passport in the name of Franco Rodriguez Mena to travel to the
But ultimately Posada acknowledged he used one false Salvadoran passport in the name of Franco Rodriguez Mena to travel to the United States on April 26, 2000 and then to enter Panama about seven months later where he was later convicted -- and subsequently pardoned -- in connection with an alleged plot to assassinate Castro.
http://www.miami.com/mld/miamihe...ba/
12518949.htm
HEH screw up with link 
bummer
DBC: Notice what ingrates they are. Why wont the US accept Venezuelan Aid?
Venezuela offers oil and aid to hurricane-battered US
08.31.2005, 03:30 PM
CARACAS (AFX) - Venezuela has offered emergency funds and fuel to the hurricane-battered US, and is ready to send a humanitarian aid taskforce to assist US disaster recovery efforts following Hurricane Katrina, the foreign ministry said.
'The government and the nation of the Bolivaran Republic of Venezuela express to the United States and its leaders their dismay over the magnitude and consquences of Hurricane Katrina,' the ministry said in a statement.
----Snip
But US State Department spokesman Sean McCormack said that he is 'not aware of any such offers' of aid or oil from Venezuela.
Woops forgot source: I think it will be well recieved by some of our less than left friends:
http://www.forbes.com/home/
feeds...afx2199612.html
What a bunch of crap, this Posada shit.
I a betting that they will send him to El Salvador where Tony Saca(shit) will treat him like a VIP big-dog.
Interesting on how the 'pro-Chavez' media don't inform the US public well on this subject.
Notice how the opposition whackos seem to think that the US media have turned socialist all of the sudden.
Waht they can't seem to fathom is that even the corporate media can't claim that 'Chavez is a dictator' stuff for too long without looking like total fools and loosing what little crediblity that they still have.
wahhhh, wahhhh, wahhhh--bunch of spoiled cry babies that have never done an hour of honest labor in their lives.
Of course, when the Bolivarians kick thier asses again in the coming parlientary elections, as sure as shit smells like crap, they will be claiming that the election was stolen--or whatever.
They love to be left alone in their collective delusion and not be bothered by any uncomfortable questions or ideas.
A full year after the RR it has become apparent that they are just whacked-out.
OW--part of the problem with New Orleans is the rate at which the lower barrier islands of Louisiana are deteriorating--largely due to human-made phenomena. But still--if you build on a coastline, expect a tremendous hurrican at some point.
Dear fellas, please don't shorten up my nickname. It's "Tiburon 1", not only Tiburon.
OW, since this is a "facts-based" blog, why don't ya explain your readers where does "Tiburon 1" comes from? Want a hint? Okay. "Tiburon 1" is the code-name Chavez used on april 11 when ordering, on two-way radio, to activate Plan Avila against civilians.
Sure, and what of it? Remember you do have to have a little context here. Didn't Carlos Ortega send the crowd on an illegal march to Miraflores with the words "lets get the tyrant out". This crowd, which then had the purpose of trying to overthrow the government fought its way violently through several police lines/national guard trying to stop it. Then the crowd was ambushed by sniper that in all likely hood were put there by the opposition itself. Why do I say that - especially given lack of physical evidence to support it? Because 1) it was the opposition that sent the march to Miraflore so if there was any pre-planning an ambush in all likelyhood they did it and more damming 2) the Carmona decree, including the parts denouncing what actually happened on April 11, was in fact written at least two days BEFORE April 11th. That is known and confirmed by Brewer among others. So that indicates the coup was pre-planned and they knew they were going to set up violence to justify it. While this can't be proven it sure does look pretty compelling to me.
Pretty sick huh, the opposition not only sent its supporters on an illegal march but actually had them shot too. Talk about eating your own!! Glad I'm not an opposition supporter.
Getting back to your original comments. Are you implying that a elected government doesn't have the right to prevent itself from being overthrown?
SR,
They are dammed if they do and dammed if they don't. The barrier islands are sinking because they built levees to keep the Mississippi from flooding. But without the Mississippi flooding the islands don't get the sediment they need to keep from sinking into the gulf. So pick your poison - build the levees and get wiped out by hurricanes or don't build them and get wiped out by the Mississippi. If you were to build a city now you would never put it in that location.
The most damming thing I think that is being shown now is they never had a plan to evacuate poor people who didn't have cars or money to get out. They were left to their own devices.
Hey, don't fault all Americans for Iraq. MANY of us are not behind, and have never been supportive, of what our current government has done in the world. If I had my way, we would not be in Iraq and the billions of dollars spent there would have been spent to develop new fuel sources so our dependence on Iraqi oil (and others) would be unneccesary. And it isn't just New Orleans and the gulf coast that is affected by Katrina. I just paid $2.99 a gallon for gas becuase of the impact. (In my 4 cylinder car-not an SUV.) And New Orleans was a beautiful place. We went there last year on vacation and loved the beautiful architecture and garden district. I feel so sorry for people there who had no way of leaving and are now stuck in deplorable situations. But, one good thing about Americans, we rally around when needed. (As many other countries can attest to.) Help is already pouring in as Americans send in their hard earned dollars and donations. People living in other states are going to help out and the ever ready to help Red Cross is there. So while I despise our current "leader" and his administation, I am proud to be an American. I only hope our country can survive the "leadership" we are enduring for the next few years until he is out of office.
I've definitely never meant to fault all Americans for Iraq. I hope I haven't given that impression. Now the tens of millions who voted for Bush ....
Moreover, this blog certianly doesn't intend to be anti-U.S. Just against some U.S. leaders and policies. So when you say:
"So while I despise our current "leader" and his administation, I am proud to be an American. I only hope our country can survive the "leadership" we are enduring for the next few years until he is out of office."
I'm with you.
OW, why was it an "illegal" march, if one of the first things Chavez said when came to power was "si el pueblo algún día no me quiere, me iré"?
Tell me how sending military troops to contain a civilian march doesn't make him responsible?
And please show the proof the snipers were from the opposition, even when they were all on gov't buildings and only the Casa Militar had access to those buildings.
DBC--the march was intentionally diverted under the direction of Ortega and Carmona.
No nation would let hundreds of thousands of anti-government demonstrators converge on the home of the president with the intent of removing him/her from office.
This wasn't a peaceful march.
What I have stated above is just basic.
Now, about the responsibility--there is very good circumstantial evidence that members of the military, the oligarchy, and its flunkies (Carmona) knew full well that there was going to be shooting at innocent civilians---this was the necessary 'pretexts' that the traitors needed to overthrow the consitutional government.
Only a fanatic would understand that leading a crowd to overthrow a president by besieging his/her home is in any way acceptable and justified.
Unless you subscribe to facist values....
"OW, why was it an "illegal" march, if one of the first things Chavez said when came to power was "si el pueblo algún día no me quiere, me iré"?"
It was illegal because they didn't have a permit to go to Miraflores. Their permit was for a rally at PDVSA HQ. So once they sent to Miraflores they were breaking the law. Not to mention fighting their way through police lines. Also, since when does a rally get to count itself as "the people"? A little pretentious dont' you think. You have elections to decide determine what "the people" think. Thats what the recall referendum was for and "the people" spoke loud and clear then.
"Tell me how sending military troops to contain a civilian march doesn't make him responsible?"
Again, the crowd was instigating the violence and breaking the law. They had no right to go where they were going. They had no right to attack the GN and police to try to get there. They had no right to try to overthrow the government as was their stated intention. The government, knowing all of these things, had every right to try to stop them.
And lets be clear - the GN, the army, or even average Chavistas didn't go to PDVSA HQ and attack a crowd at a peaceful rally. If that happened then things would be completely different. But what really happened was that the crowd went where it wasn't supposed to and actively sought out a confrontation.
"And please show the proof the snipers were from the opposition, even when they were all on gov't buildings and only the Casa Militar had access to those buildings."
As I said in the post I don't have direct proof of this. I have to surmise it. Remember, the opposition had control for 48 hours during which a lot of physical evidence was wiped out. Now why do I surmise they were opposition. Go back to the original comment but briefly because 1) the opposition knew what was going to happend and the route whereas the government didn't and 2) the coup AND the violence was clearly pre-planned - that has been proven. So if the need for voilence to justify a coup was known in advance by the opposition it stands to reason the people who were doing the shooting were opposition.
As to the buildings, it has never been established what buildings the shots came from. And in Venezuela isn't isn't exactly hard to bribe some security guards to gain entrance - if you even need to do that.
OW, dig this: I just had a meeting with a former US Senator (will not name names) who was in office about twenty years ago.
This person is friends with Jeb and George W. Bush, Haley Barbar, the gov. of Mississippi, and almost all the big time politicos (Dem. and Rep.).
When I mentioned this tragedgy, all this person kept repeating was an attack on the poor blacks for being too stupid and lazy to flee New Orleans.
For their poverty this person blamed "three generations on welfare".
Indeed, it will be interesting if the politicians will ever be held accountable for not properly planning to get hundreds of thousands of the poor out of the city.
The general attititudes conveyed by this Senator reminds me of much of what I read coming from the Venezuelan upper classes visavis their nation's underclass.
Ok, let's assume the opposition was "in control" for 48 hours, although if it really was Chavez would have never come back.
BEFORE Carmona, was it already in control of gov't buildings? Chavistas still had control on everything until late april 11th. You're full of crap on this. SO HOW COME SNIPERS WERE ON GOV'T CONTROLLED BUILDINGS WHEN THE MARCH ARRIVED?
And Steven Hunt (aka Slave Revolt), saying the march was heading the president's home shows the lack of knowledge on venezuelan matters from you. Chavez has been living in Fuerte Tiuna since at least early 2001, you prick. Mraflores has never been his home.
Had Chavez the appropriate permits to take the troops to Caracas to lead a coup d'etat back in 92? How about the assassination attempt on a democratically elected president and his family?
Donde se hace la diligencia para tramitar esos permisos; con Bernal?
Recording of Hugo Chavez ordering the Avila Plan
By Alekander Boyd
London 26.02.05 | There is a saying in Venezuela that goes "el que
tiene rabo de paja que no se acerque a la candela" which can be equated
to "If you live in a glasshouse don't throw stones". The regime of Hugo
Chavez has issued an arrest warrant
for former Venezuelan president Carlos Andres Perez (CAP) purportedly
for having ordered the application of the Avila Plan back in 1.989. As
a result very many people were killed by the army.
Fast forward 13 years and hear the recording [power point presentation and sound]
of current president Hugo Chavez ordering General Garcia Carneiro the
implementation of the Avila Plan. It is worth analyzing the context and
circumstances of both actions.
Following drastic economic measures that led to the increase in
transport fares violent riots sprouted all over Venezuela although
Caracas, as it often happens, was the main point of popular looting and
uncontrollable pillage. Such sudden outburst was placated by CAP's
administration with the Avila Plan, which is a military contingency plan created to bring public order to normal levels once the police forces have failed to do so.
Back in 1.989 I was living in El Paraiso, west Caracas, and I
remember vividly the marauding mobs descending from La Vega and La Cota
905 to ransack every shop within reach. I also saw violent street
skirmishes between the army and the looters.
Now compare that with the rally goers armed with whistle and flags
that made their way to Miraflores Palace on April 11 2002 to demand
Chavez' resignation. Can any rightful mind -chavistas don't qualify-
draw a comparison between the two scenarios? I think not. Nonetheless
Hugo Chavez ought to be prosecuted and arrested for he is guilty of the
same 'crime', isn't he? Oh I forgot momentarily that Venezuela's
Attorney General is good friends with him.
T.U.
As was already stated you don't know that they were on government buildings. No one knows exactly where they were (except of course the people who put them there who are probably on your side so maybe you can ask them). Seeing as this wasn't a spontaneous event but a pre-planned one as demonstrated by the opposition writing the Carmona decree in advance I'm sure they had plenty of time to figure out where to put the snipers and how to get them there.
Yes, Chavez carried out an attempted coup in 1992. He has never denied it and he accepted his punishment by going to jail. That is WAY more than the infantile idiots in the opposition have ever done.
He was also pardoned by a democratically elected president. Don't like, take it up with Caldera.
And quoting from "Where is our Pinochet" Boyd?!?!?!?
"Now compare that with the rally goers armed with whistle and flags
that made their way to Miraflores Palace on April 11 2002 to demand
Chavez' resignation."
Hysterical, so people can march on the Presidential Palace and "demand" the presidents resignation. Is that how things are supposed to work in a democracy.
OW, sez:
Hysterical, so people can march on the Presidential Palace and "demand" the presidents resignation. Is that how things are supposed to work in a democracy.
Thus if I understand you correctly OW, it is all right for Chavez to lead coup d'etats but it isn't so for those who oppose him? It is all right for Chavez to incite violence but it's despicable if oppo folks do the same?
Taking it up with Caldera? To cement your claim that this blog is a 'fact based one' you must produce coherent arguments with a base in reality. Blaming the past, after almost 7 years of mismanagement by your revered idol, is no longer a valid excuse. As someone commented elsewhere; Chavez got re-elected in 2000 so he is the past administration. Learn to deal with his failures; denial just won't cut it.
SSO:
In my previous post I dealt with Chavez's coup. I didn't deny it or say it was alright. I said he was punished for it.
Blaming the past for the administrations failures? What failures. RIght now the economy is one of the fastest growing in the world, inflation and unemployment are coming down. The standard of living is going up - especially for those with the least. Here we are celebrating successes - not denying anthing.
And that IN SPITE of a "strike" that happened 2 and 1/2 years ago aimed at destroying the government.
Anyways, welcome to the party 
OW:
First you say you have no proof the snipers were from the opposition. On the next comment you say they put the snipers there. I want some of what you're smoking.
BTW, let me point out every building on a 2-mile radius from Miraflores was under the control and watch of Casa Militar. So, I ask again, WHO THE HELL LET THE SNIPERS IN?
Mac: "Help is already pouring in as Americans send in their hard earned dollars and donations. People living in other states are going to help out and the ever ready to help Red Cross is there."
Indeed, so is the help being offered by the Venezuelan Gov. offering food and oil. I saw a report today replayed many times over on CNN over the fact that Hugo Chavez is offering assistence. The report also mentioned that this offer comes on the eve of Pat Robertsons call for assassination of the Venezuelan Official who is now extending a humane courtesy, as decent human beings always do. I applaud CNN for making public the offer which until now has been relegated to print media.
Bilmon: " Had Chavez the appropriate permits to take the troops to Caracas to lead a coup d'etat back in 92? How about the assassination attempt on a democratically elected president and his family?"
The answer to your question is no. Did CHavez serve time for his crime? Errrr......Yes! Was Chavez Pardoned? Errrrr....Yes! Let me make this point clearer to you and others, When someone commits a crime, say rob a store, and is caught, he serves his time right? Now If this person is pardoned by the then president for his crimes then he is absloved of his crime, meaning he is no longer culpable of that crime having been forgiven it by the power of the state. Therefore he has a clean slate his time has been served and his debt paid to society. Do you claim a superior authority to accuse Chavez of some sort of ex post facto malfeasence? Who are you to question? The fact that this former coup leader can be popular enough to garner 60% of the population to gain him the presidency, tested many times over through the democratic system of suffrage is testimony alone to his message and goal, DESPITE what may have occurred in the past. He served his time was absloved and then becomes president, what else do you want? Bringing up the coup is a sad sad attempt to discredit him and only goes so far with people that dont know the whole truth. You are hereby served with the truth. Now go suffer.
Tiburon:
I said I was surmising they were opposition snipers and I explained why I thought that - I'm not retying the posts. But just in case you missed I will copy and paste one more time:
"Then the crowd was ambushed by sniper that in all likely hood were put there by the opposition itself. Why do I say that - especially given lack of physical evidence to support it? Because 1) it was the opposition that sent the march to Miraflore so if there was any pre-planning an ambush in all likelyhood they did it and more damming 2) the Carmona decree, including the parts denouncing what actually happened on April 11, was in fact written at least two days BEFORE April 11th. That is known and confirmed by Brewer among others. So that indicates the coup was pre-planned and they knew they were going to set up violence to justify it. While this can't be proven it sure does look pretty compelling to me."
As to the buildings in a two mile radious being all controlled by the government that is simply false.
Tiburon 1/16: "OW, why was it an "illegal" march, if one of the first things Chavez said when came to power was "si el pueblo algún día no me quiere, me iré"?"
Y cuales son los que constituyen "el pueblo"? Seran los 40% de la poblacion votante? Y que de los 60% cuales respaldan el gobierno? No fueron ellos que facilitaron el regreso de el presidente? No fueron ellos - el pueblo mayoral! que hicieron renacer la democracia? Entoces, todavia sigue, y porque sera?
tiburon 1/16: "BTW, let me point out every building on a 2-mile radius from Miraflores was under the control and watch of Casa Militar."
By the way let me point out that you have not substantiated this claim. Just cause Fulano de tal says this, this, that, and the other thing, does not make it so. Where is your basis of support for this claim?
This is the kind of statement that goes unchecked in other blogs, accepted as truth and arguments based on its veracity as if it were a reality. It has no wings here. Justify your claim!
Steve St. Onge: "Thus if I understand you correctly OW, it is all right for Chavez to lead coup d'etats but it isn't so for those who oppose him? It is all right for Chavez to incite violence but it's despicable if oppo folks do the same?"
OW has already answered you suffciently, and my previous post should serve as an addendum to it in reponse to you. However it seems to me that this point needs to be driven home with a large hammer. Where are the coupsters of 02'? Is Carmona in jail serving his time for illegal action? What of the rest - No sir, they took refuge. Why arent they serving time for thier crimes? Hey man if you can give it like a man take it like a man, maybe Chavez might see it in his heart to pardon them too, but no, they ran tail under foot. Where you blame Chavez for his past transgressions you surely dont accept the fact that he did not turn tail and run. And where is the popular support for Carmona? certainly, judding by comments by your like, he was not as popular as the population would have liked. So then as a juxtaposition, Chavez in an unprecedented turn of events is restored to his rightful presidency. To what is owed this remarakble event? To what extent is Chavez different than Carmona and why? Youll find the reasons to be intriguing in the least sense of the word. Lets get real here folks, Chavez is in place because he is supported by a democratic populace. If you do not like that and would rather authoritarian right wing rule dished up by the CIA then you have no other recourse other than to suffer, but only if you must, there are other options.
Where are the coupsters of 02'?
According to the plenary of Venezuela's Supreme Tribunal of Justice, which is the highest legal entity of that country, there was not coup but a vacuum of power. Thus the "coupsters", as you have wrongly called them, are free men. If in disagreement, and borrowing from OW, take it up with all the justices of the tribunal.
To what extent is Chavez different than Carmona and why?
Pertinent point. Carmona stands accused of having dissolved all powers and elected office holders, a move that cost him dearly and has thrusted undue criticism upon other opposition actors, past and present, that had nothing to do with it. However, why did Chavez do back in 1.999? Is it not true that he also dissolved all constituted powers and dismissed elected officials? So as far as unconstitutional moves go, Chavez and Carmona stand in the same ground; Chavez, nonetheless, having better revolutionary credentials forged after failed coup attempts and prolonged abuse of power, has demonstrated that he is far more pernicious than his right-wing counterpart.
You contend that Chavez is supported by a democratic populace. Readers of this "fact based" blog would do well in visiting more often Aporrea and Soberania or in taking a stroll down to Miraflores' vicinity starting in Avenida Urdaneta. Have a word with the Wayuu or the dispossessed camping there. I am sure after talking to them the romantic view that one has on Chavez when opining from afar will suddenly and permanently change.
Steve:
Yes, that was one of the great all time supreme court decisions 
But I'm not sure it is such a great defense. After all Carmona fled the country well before that happened. He (along with a number of others) had no intention of facing justice irrespective of what that decision turned out to be. And they never admit to anything - even the obvious - which is what seperates them from a stand up person like Chavez and explains why the vast majority of people have no use for them. Unfortunately this became a pattern and the second coup attempt (aka the paro petrolero) saw its leadership flea the country to escape justice which they have succeeded in save one poor soul with a bad gambling habit. The opposition has demonstrated time and again it is neither honest nor willing to face justice - qualities Chavez showed quite clearly in 1992.
And by all means, people should come to Venezuela and speak to people. They should read those grassroots sites if they can. And they will see both that Chavez is extremely popular and why he is so popular. And they will see why the opposition no longer uses the slogan "elections now"
You can laugh OW, all you want, however your laughter won't change the decision of the Supreme Tribunal. If you have a problem with that take it to the justices of the Tribunal.
Your penchant for distorting history is not worth my time; I thought this was a serious attempt at objective reporting of what goes on in this country, alas you, as much as those on the other side of the political divide, tend often times to spin the facts to suit your particular agendas and political tendencies. For interested readers Carmona did not flee the country well before the trial; as a matter of fact he's on the record before the hearing committee.
It is unfitting to call Chavez a stand up person and his facing the cameras in 1992 was more a shrewd political move than the action of an honest person.
BTW judging by some of the latest posts at those sites it appears that Chavez is hardly extremely popular. Should such be the case; why the huge abstention of August 7? I happened to be observing some polling centers in Antimano, La Yaguara, and I can assure you that Chavez's appeal amongst the very poor is fading.
Be well.
Steve:
First, this is a fact based blog so lets get basic facts right. Carmona sought refuge in the Colombian embassy after his house arrest and went to Colombia in MAY. So he was indeed out of the counry well before any trial.
And the distorting of history here that you alledge is what...? Nothing provided. Oh well, everyones free to have opinions.
Chavez's standing up in 92 was "a shrewd political move". Maybe so. The "honesty is the best policy" precept is one that many of us, including Chavez, live by. Its much to the oppositions detriment that they haven't discovered it.
And why the absention on August 7th? I think the fact that no important offices were on the ballot may have had something to do with that, no? How many people generally turn out for "dog catcher" elections? If that is what you have to hang your hat on fine. Because it will be shown to be a non issue when we have large turnout for the AN voting in December and massive turnout for the presidential vote next year. So this turnout arguement will last you about another 5 months - use it while you can.
As to Chavez's support fading all I can say is I don't know where you are but you are clearly not in touch currently with what is going on in Venezuela. Chavez's support now rivals what it was when he was first elected (how many presidents can say that after 7 years). In fact, among the poorer segmants of the population it is just as strong or stronger. He has lost the middle class (some time ago) and they aren't likely to come back. But we're doing fine without them. Bit by bit they are replaced. And lets not forget that in August 04 Chavez got almost 2 million more votes than in 98 - and he is more popular now than he was a year ago.
Adios
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