OW-but isn't this the crux of the political battle, the people becoming politically organized?
The attack against Chavez is only a misplaced metaphor for the deeper social struggle--between oligarchy and democracy.
The goal of oligarchs and elites is to use propaganda, oppression, entertainment and consumerism to keep the masses quiessent, pliable, and (in the best of all worlds) working for barely subsistence wages while the elites increase their power more.
All along I have hoped that the masses would become organized political players who would collectively shape their collective destiny for the better.
Elites don't trust that the people can or should participate in making decisions of vast import for the society.
Check out Miguel O.'s opinions about the Venezuelan masses--he barely veils his palpable contempt for his fellow Venezuelans. They view the masses as having less dignity than they afford animals.
S.R.
You are absolutely correct. Many (most?) of them do indeed view poor Venezuelans as non-entities and they have no concern for their welfare at all. That is how they can make such absurd statements as Venezuela would be better off without the oil. What that means is they were able to steal so much they themselves no longer need anything from the oil revenues.
This is also why thy despise Chavez so much. He has let the genie (sp?) out of the bottle. The Venezuelan population is never again going to be so complacent and accepting of their lot. And that is a big problem for the opposition even if they get Chavez out. That is why a lot of opposition leaders like Carlos Andres Perez have said the country will need a period of dictatorship after Chavez to get things back to the way they were.
Hopefully, that will never happen.
Without a doubt the organization at the grassroot level is one of the most important legacies of Hugo Chavez. And it is precisely the political awakening of the disenfranchised, ignored for many years by AD-COPEI cogollos, that will precipitate the end of Chavez. Too many broken promises and too a large entourage of utterly corrupt officials who couldn't care less about Venezuela. The people of Venezuela have awaken and have started claiming what's rightfully theirs. Chavez's dreams of becoming the new Bolivar at the expense, and detriment, of his own people will bring him down; not the clueless and pathetic opposition politicos.
"Too many broken promises"
I disagree. The toughest times are past. The 02/03 period where definitely tryihng times and those inclined to abandon him do so then. Now with the economy booming, the Missions ramping up, new, better, more capable administrators coming into government all the time, and local governments finally in responsible hands things are day by day getting better.
Its not for nothing that Arias Cardenas and even parts of MAS want back in.
Chavez fails but he doesn't fail twice. Just look at Plan Bolivar 2000 and the Missions. The pattern is there for all with open eyes to see.
Just passing by, but guys, I sense a bit of a bias around here 
.
Check this one, on the 'elite' topic: http://paspalum.blogspot.com/200...cy-and-
you.html
Before you start accusing us of elitists, and BTW: Elite. n. A group or class of persons or a member of such a group or class, enjoying superior intellectual, social, or economic status.
At this time, that represents more Chavez and his _cronies_ that us poor defenseless esqualidos (and remember that they have the guns..)
OT, OW: Given that this is the topic of your blog, shouldn't you be covering the angle that part of the problem with the evacuation of New Orleans has to do with all the National Guard reserves being stuck in Iraq?.
OW: I was expecting something on that, oh well, I will post without your input....
BTW: I've been considering adding a link to you on my sidebar, which one you prefer:
-my archnemesis
-pro Chavez
-Chavez supporter
suggestions?
EB:
OW will be indesposed for a short time. In the interim yours truly is serving as custodian qua janitor of this blessed site.
I dont speak for OW so your answer will have to wait. I must take the time however to commend you on the shameless promotion of your blog. You are quite adept at it and should you ever see the light, you would be welcomed to promote oilwars, for no personal gain of course.
From your site: Going to school might only increase the possibility of getting an education...
Really!? Who woulda thunk it. I fear we may be overmatched by your superior deductive reasoning and intellect. Say? arent you a mathmatician? Just funnin with you EB. Your national guard question Im sure Slave General Slave will answer in due time.
SOS: "The people of Venezuela have awaken and have started claiming what's rightfully theirs. Chavez's dreams of becoming the new Bolivar at the expense, and detriment, of his own people will bring him down; not the clueless and pathetic opposition politicos.
Now I agree with a portion of your statement in that the Venezuelan population has taken what is rightfully thiers. Given that portion Im assuming you are speaking of the population that has suffered a GINI income disparity coefficient among the highest in the world. If true then we are in agreement.
Where you state that Chavez is the downfall, the numbers as exhibited by numerous posts citing valid acceptable sources indicate the opposite. Take the bloomberg article:
http://quote.bloomberg.com/apps/
...efer=news_index
as an example, search and ye shall find various examples on this sitet. When you say that Chavez has been a detriment to the people of Ven. at thier expense what exactly do you speak of? Better, for whom do you speak for? Certainly not for those that see the current administration favorably by a margin of 70% or better. Are these the people you cite will (to coin a phrase) "bring him down"?
Pulpete,
Personal gain? How?.
By showing the people that come here that there is another point of view?
I write what I feel to write. I have lived in the US for long enough to feel this as my country too (with the disadvantage of not being able to vote). I am sorry if I give you that impression.
The only reason I mentioned the link is that I now feel that there can be some merit to this blog (which was not true before), and I want to link only to places that I see some merit on it (and the spanish Aporrea link is too small, and in the wrong language) to present a different point of view. If that offends you guys, I will not do it.
And BTW, when you quote, use the whole context please. I actually call what you did "republican quoting." (feel free to use that term, my republican friends love it).
On the particulars of my posts, I only discuss under my rules, I have seen too much of your coprolalia to be willing to take any of it.
BTW guys, I'm not quite gone yet. Still around for a few more hours.
Anyways, Edgar, I think YOU should organize YOUR blog the way YOU see best. Thats the whole point of having your own blog. There are plenty of other opposition blogs so if you are setting one up it must be because you believe you have something to say different from what everyone else has said.
As to N.O. I did do a little post on it. Haven't done more because it is only tangentially related and I just haven't had much time to post that last couple of days due to lots of work before going away.
Anyways, do stop by from time to time. Our other opposition friends, AIO, DBC, Brunilde, Boyde, Parra have all run away. It appears they dind't like being on a blog where you actualy have to substantiate your assertions. The mediocrity of many of the opposition blogs lulled them into sloppy thinking and the readjustment they needed to make to be able to engage people here proved to be too much I'm afraid. So be it. I'm not compromising my standards. I'm a chavista after all.
Edgar said: "my republican friends love it)"
Dude--you mean Republicans in the US have friends? I thought they only had 'associates' based on rational self interests.
Watch out for Comandante P.--he will kick your ass and take your girlfriend and convert her to socialism.
you mean Republicans in the US have friends?,
Only those that you perceive can see the light....
The mediocrity of many of the opposition blogs lulled them into sloppy thinking and the readjustment they needed to make to be able to engage people here proved to be too much I'm afraid
No, I bet that they perceived that it was more of a waste of their time, as do I. Now I can express my opinion, by just dumping a couple of links. Much more efficient....
EB
No some of them have come here talked up a storm, laid down challenges, and then fled when there numbers didn't work out. One good example is AIO (Just Noticing here). He tried to make a big deal about some PDVSA numbers but it didn't quite work out as he planned:
http://www.haloscan.com/comments...88487920/
#32310
then
http://www.haloscan.com/comments...04739851/
#35169
See, on the opposition blogs AIO can link to some articles, talk up some numbers, and give the "dire" consequences and everyone goes ooohhh and aaahhh. Here people read the articles, check the numbers, do the math, and cast a critical eye on everything. When that was done in this case AIO had his deeply held notions about PDVSA wiped out. I think the poor guy was traumatized as he hasn't been heard from since.
Fun reading while I'm away 
Ooops, forgot to warn. To follow those threads you have to be able to deal wtih basic arithmatic. And it helps if you have some understanding and interest in the Ven oil industry. I think AIO ultimately ran into trouble with both of those things.
Yeah, what I suspected, I have no time to go through all that, so I'll just take your word for it (and BTW, I hope that hat basic arithmetic quip was not a veiled insult, otherwise I'll start talking of differential equations, making clear abuse of your democracy here )...
That's why I prefer 'organized' discussions...
no insults, veiled or otherwise.
If DiffyQ is relevant to the discussion at hand by all means.
Actually, that makes me think of an opposition blog run by a "physicist" who wrote a post recently (also on PDVSA) making it clear he didn't even understand the Mean Value Theorem 
Yah OW even slave can dig the 'mean value theorem"
them people like Edgar, they got some 'mean values'
look no farther than New orleans right now.
That's 'mean values'.
By the way--how is calculus pertinent to this discussion?
Oh, yeah, OW==have a great vacation.
That Chavez oil money is doing you good dude!
Be careful going through FARC territory to pick up your money. LOL
And remember, a good day in hell is better than today in New Orleans.
Make sure to drop off a few million dollars in New Orleans to revitalize the New Militant Black Pathers.
We will rise up and take this nation from Bush et al.
You are one cool secret agent OW (LOL je he jee jaaah!).
Say hello to Castro.
Slave,
so you know (since here I'm just a commoner). I find somewhat offensive that you made fun of a tragedy like the one in New Orleans. And I bet that I am not alone in that.
Edgar stop being a lying fake--that doesn't fly here.
I have never made fun of New Orleans, the tragedy, or the great people of that city.
You can twist and lie over at other blogs or your own--but here you need to bring backup, evidence.
If my perception of you making fun of NO was wrong, I am sorry, my bad. But that is how your comment came across.
But: A lying fake?
That's how you perceive me?
Not someone that can really care for Venezuelans the country of my fathers, Americans my adoptive country, and Humans in general?. Is that concept too hard for you to grasp?.
My line of 'questioning' is to try to understand where are you coming from, Because try as I might I cannot understand it.
But you had to move to the freedom blog to go ad-hominem, I see. That's why I have my dictatorial rules in place.
However you would not answer the extremely simple question I left there:
http://www.haloscan.com/comments...933706543/
#6702
I guess that particular conversation, and this one is now over, feel free to have as many last words as you want..
Edgar, I am from the New Orleans area and I love the people of that city--white and black, hispanic, rich and poor.
My hometown on the Ms. gulf coast has been destroyed.
The framing of the 'looting' and the comments of some of the rightwingers make me sick--this shows me that we have a long way to go in this nation.
So please, be more careful when you make comments.
When I am stressed and worried--I joke, sometimes in 'bad taste'. Fuck it.
Keep your dictatorial rules, blog and share comments with your politcally correct buddies.
For me, I far more enjoy comments section where people are free to put their foot in their mouths--but have the ability to continue commenting.
The Ven. rightwing blogs have become nothing more than boring repetition.
Sorry, I misinterpreted your reaction, it was not my intention.
And yes, I agree with you, the whole thing sickens me, to the point that I had not turned to look at a TV in a week. Thankfully I first tuned to Fox (I need it to compensate for my own biases), to see their reporters (including Geraldo) being completely pissed at it all.
The rules I put in place are to avoid the shouting match that this things become. You can go through my comment section, you will find plenty of insults there, and, as long as I can bring the conversation under control, and on topic, I am happy. I have not banned anyone, so far.
Actually Edgar--I enjoy watching a little tussel break out. Usually people eventually chill out because after a certain point the ad hominem argument and the like is very tedious.
Total idiots eventually distinguish themselves as such.
But some of the most creative dialouge on blogs are impromtu and meandering exchanges. In my experience this is what makes for a lively comments section.
But it is your blog; you make the rules. My only advice is to rule with wide parameters.
Happy blogging.
The tussle part is the problem for me, I don't like boxing or wrestling, and it not only becomes boring to me, it bothers me. I want whoever takes a look into my comment section to be able to extract something from it in a short time, not to get bored and look away.
Meandering is not a big problem, as long as the topic I am interested in is kept in mind. If another one pops up, I'd rather do a post about it, so that it can be commented then. I guess I don't see my blog as a community bar, I see it as an education tool.
And wide parameters is what I intend to apply.
See you in the bitstream...
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