BTW ow you will be wrong on the sub issue 
give time time.
Dude, get your head out of your ass. Those projects were designed and built by private enterprises. Hardly a Socialist Bolivarian achievement... show me where USD $150 billion in six years have gone besides this silly government sponsored propaganda image gallery where you steal you images from:
http://s151.photobucket.com/albu...los_conciencia/
Viva The Bolivarian Drug Revolution!
BTW Flanker, who gives a fuck what you think. Am I supposed to be impressed with your 'inside' knowledge? You want a cookie or a backflip?
Hey man, blog on something more interesting. Or better yet, take a stand: is Chavez getting Russian submarines yes or no? Your pal Gregory Wilpert says no. So what is it O-Double-U? Is Chavez getting Russian subs yes or no?
**BONUS ROUND**
If Chavez gets subs, are they DEFENSIVE or OFFENSIVE?
If you cannot answer that and avoid, delete or block then you just confirm that you can't stand the truth. You are a lying sack of shit Burnett. HOw can you live with yourself?
As I said, it's da crack The oppos are bringing tons of it into Venezuela.
"Those projects were designed and built by private enterprises."
Bullshit. Oh and by the way, you forgot to add they are PAID for by the Bolivarian government that actually makes sure it gets paid its fair share for its oil rather than giving it to Shell and Exxon for a 1% royalty.
"show me where USD $150 billion in six years have gone"
That is exactly what I have been showing you for quite some time - you just don't like it and become irate. You choose to live in a swamp, and Venezuela moves on without you. I guess you weren't a very important person, were you.
"is Chavez getting Russian submarines yes or no"
According to the only Venezuelan who has spoken on the subject, no. BTW, what did you think of the post where I showed Chavez has spent less on the military than his predecessors? I noticed your lame but tries to avoid those hard numbers (as always).
BTW, stop pretending to be Carlos Conciencia, you can't tie that donkey's shoe laces 
Yo gansters check out the first 30 minutes of the National Assembly Student Debate(with Eng Subs).Especially you Bruni.
ANdebat(Eng Subs)
About the submarines- If the military decides that they need them then they no doubt will buy them. Obviously even with these potential possible maybe in the future submarines Venezuela has not attacked any neighbor large or small, nor sent soldiers thousands of miles away to destroy other people's nations.
They have a right to obtain whatever they feel they need to deter and take on hostile aggressors. Venezuelans have a right not to share the fate of Iraq.
Publicly owned publicly financed and publicly accountable transport projects. Makes a change from the stench of neoliberalism!!!
ow – thanks again for posting some real news of events and progress being made in VZ.
On the subs, it not a matter of if they ordered them or not.
It is does VZ have a right to own subs or not?
And my answer would be YES
Talking about new developments, what about Chavez announcing the creation of 200 state owned socialist companies which include 88 food companies, 48 construction materials and tool companies, 19 glass, plastic and rubber companies, 10 transportation companies and 10 recycling companies. Also he announced the creation of a central planning commision with Chavez declaring "we have entered the stage of central planning". What do you thing of these latest developoments OW?????
Meanwhile, people keep dying on the street.
FRD go home and play with your blow up CAP doll you sad excuse for an individual
"By fully utilizing this existing steam the plant generates 170 more Megawatts without using any additional fossil fuels. Another very nice green inovation by the Venezuelan government."
Are you kidding? This technology has been in existence since the 1970s. Looks like the revolution bonita is reinventing the wheel (a socialist wheel, the one with 4 corners)
I wasn't meaning to imply that they developed the technology but rather that they were the ones to implement its use in Venezuela.
Just like unleaded gasoline - it has been around since the early seventies but previous governments in Venezuela never had it fully put into use - it took the Chavez government to do that.
Why when the goverment does something positive for the country those opposed to it must put it down in such a manner. This is good for the country no matter who is running it. Do those opposed to Chavez on this board have nothing positive to say? Yers more than likely the project was designed and constructed by a private company, does the goverment have a freaking Troley plant, no, can it not contract these things out you fucking idiot. Do you think that private enterprise put up the money for it? Since when is public transportation a profitable business? All public transportation is subsidized, and typically run by a private firm. They are then ones that will take care of the busses, the routes, the employees and so on...
When a country add wind power it is positive, but hey they didn't fucking invent wind.
Man some people are fucking ignorant!!
Who's going to drive those buses and trams? A couple of days ago he announced that he was going to hire Cubans, Argentines and Bolivians to drive buses in the country...what about all those Venezuelans that can drive buses????
I attached a link...sorry it's in Spanish
http://radardelosbarrios.blogspo...r-
choferes.html
Edmundo these are publicly owned companies. DEAL WITH IT YOU CAP LOVER
Jen, how's 'the club"
Sure, Jen, I am positive that Chavez will bring in Chinese to drive buses. That would be a great PR move for Chavez.
Geez, do you oppos never learn--your not supposed to believe the crap that you dissiminate to the capitalist media.
Oh, now the truth comes out. A threatened mass transit strike by oligarch-associated union leaders. Hmmm....then why wouldn't the Venezuelan government bring in allies from other countries?
We remember well the CIA-supported trucker's strike in Chile in '72--these strikes are aimed at destablizing the government. The goal is for these 'strikes' to have reverberations that will create a feed-back loop that is reinforcing.
This was the same plan with the oil strike--which was defeated.
Jen, did you support the oil/business owner's strike/lockout?
Just asking.
Sorry, Dan, but the Termozulia plant addition was designed, engineered and built by private, for-profit, FOREIGN, blood-sucking capitalists.
http://www.manferrostaal.com/
upl...__green__01.pdf
(see pages 32-33)
Seems they also partnered with the government to donate computers to schools.
If we lived in a completely socialist world, as Slave Revolt would have us, who would build these modern, environmentally-sensitive capacities for Venezuela? Slave Revolt despises capitalism, Dan I guess tolerates it. Who better to advance the social agenda than moderates who understand that without capitalists and private enterprise, you cannot build a new Venezuela. Keep that in mind when you hear the rantings of the Slave.
Long live capitalism in Venezuela.
For more information on how you can personally profit from future expansions of power plants in Venezuela and help schoolchildren at the same time, see http://www.manferrostaal.com
In NYC striking transit workers were fined two days pay for every day they did not work, and had the possibility (each one) of a criminal charge and prison. Thge president of their union did go to jail, their union heavily fined as well.
Long before an earlier transit union leader, Mike Quill, died in jail. He was in jail for leading a strike.
I think a politically motivated strike, one designed to emabarass and harm the elected goivernment should get at least the same treatment, if not more, and yes hire whomever to replace the strikers.
Steve read the post. What the fuck, are you stupid "Mr" Steve. Where do I say anything about CAP. Dude you are fucked in the head!! How do you know they are public companies who did the planning and built the buses. Last time I checked the state does not own a bus building factory, especial electric troley. Also what would be the problem with contracting it out to a private company?
"Termozulia plant addition was designed, engineered and built by private, for-profit, FOREIGN, blood-sucking capitalists."
Engineered and built yes, but I didn't see any mention that they designed it.
Most importantly, they didn't pay for it - the Venezuelan government did. And not just any Venezuelan government as the Venezuelan government 10 years ago wasn't building crap. The government of Chavez did.
jsb said...
"If we lived in a completely socialist world, as Slave Revolt would have us, who would build these modern, environmentally-sensitive capacities for Venezuela? Slave Revolt despises capitalism, Dan I guess tolerates it. Who better to advance the social agenda than moderates who understand that without capitalists and private enterprise, you cannot build a new Venezuela"
This could be said of anywhere in the world jsb for the moment because that is all there is. BUT tomorrow is another day,a better day. Even you will see this more clearly as you emerge from the darkness of capitalism and into the light of socialism. The dawn breaks slowly at the start of a new day.
That's great that the government is paying for it, designing it, whatever. But this example highlights how moderates who want to include capitalists and for-profit companies in building a better Venezuela are the way forward. Wacky socialist ideas, such as Slave's, about absolute government control will not build a better future for average Venezuelans. Capitalist interests continue to make important strides for average Venezuelans, even if they are foreigners.
I agree. Just so you know, Chavez agrees too as he has stated many times (and as this and other projects actually show).
Dutton, there will always be Man Ferrostaals in Venezuela. Always. I'm afraid the darkness of capitalism and the light of socialism will have to continue partnering together, hand in hand, to continue to provide real, concrete benefits for Venezuelans for a long time. Don't let your ideology get in the way of a better Venezuela.
jsb sad...
"Don't let your ideology get in the way of a better Venezuela."
that should read...
Don't let your ideology get in the way of a better world.
My ideology jsb will make that better world.
"This could be said of anywhere in the world jsb for the moment because that is all there is. BUT tomorrow is another day,a better day. Even you will see this more clearly as you emerge from the darkness of capitalism and into the light of socialism. The dawn breaks slowly at the start of a new day."
Have you tried stand-up, George? You seem to be a natural.
George, Hands Off Venezuela! Neither your ideology nor mine will dictate to Venezuela whether they will involve capitalists or not. We've seen where you're ideology has gotten folks in East Germany, N.Korea and Cuba. And we've seen where mine got them in early industrial U.S. and robber-baron post communist Russia. Let Venezuelas decide for themselves if they choose a middle ground that includes for-profit initiatives like the Termozulia contracts. Yours isn't the only interpretation of social development. Venezuela is proving that their own indoginous methods are the way.
Since when does socialism mean that the goverment takes control of all aspects of life and business? I am a socialist yet I run a private company. So to be a socialist do I have to plant berries and sing cumbaya my lord! Venezuela has to work with private companies or "capitalist", it is imposible not to. Why do you think some of the communist are not with Chavez? One because he is not a communist and knows that Venezuela can't function without the private companies, at least not now, and probbaly not ever or at least for like the next 100 years!! Or how ever long it takes to set Venezuela straight, no more poor, equeal rights and so on.... How could they. PDVSA can't kick out all the oil giants and expect to work all the oil fields on their own, they can't, it is impossible for now.
To those who think Venezuela is a socialist dream, I say take a trip there for a couple of weeks. I am not saying move there like the opp tells you too. Just take a trip, buy a cheap ticket and stay in hostels if you can afford any better on your "socialist" wages. Capitalism is alive and well in Venezuela and it is going to be very hard to kill it. The Venezuelan likes money and making money and tries to make money any way possible under the sun, that is the reality, rich or poor.
jsb, Let me tell you something...Forget for a moment capitalism/socialism. FORGET THEM.
Today mankind used the TOTAL output of three planets to sustain himself,that is a fact. that is not sustainable in the short term,there is only one planet.
So what else is there to turn to. Why have we all arrived at this point of crisis. Your solution is `just carry on regardless` I say this to you is that a sane answer to give. What do you think the USA is in Iraq for?.
http://tinyurl.com/2r65ke
Heavy oils...
These can be pumped just like conventional petroleum except that they are much thicker, more polluting, and require more extensive refining. They are found in more than 30 countries, but about 90% of estimated reserves are in the Orinoco "heavy oil belt" of Venezuela, which has an estimated 1.2 trillion barrels. About one third of the oil is potentially recoverable using current technology.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/life/
f...1464050,00.html
If or when Chavez and his Government no longer governs,Venezuela will be a better more advanced place to live. How much of what Chavez is doing will be reversed? Can someone make a list of the negative things that will be undone if another political party has the bridge? I do not live in your Country but follow the news and blogs closely.
Marlyn - good question but too hypothetical. The opposition will never return and it has little to do with Chavez - this is our revolution and we'll defend it with arms if necessary.
The opposition bloggers here and their like will never get back into power - hagan lo que hagan, digan lo que digan.
PSUV
SR...the link was from a blog from the barrios...the very people whom Chavez believes he has support. Go to the link man...do you see rich Union leaders?
Marlyn Randall, PSUV shows you one of the first things that will change: he says "the opposition will never come back".
The only people I remember who said that were the communists in the USSR and the Nazi leaders in Germany.
One of the first thing that we will work on is that there is plurality. We represent less the parties that were before Chavez than Chavez does. We neither support Chavez nor what was before.
We believe that in any political system no one party should ever stay in power too long. Never ever has that been positive for any country.
Another thing will be the end of personality cult. No more need to lick ass anyone or to dress with a given colour (red) to be able even to become a street cleaner for the State.
As Simon Bolivar said:
"nada es tan peligroso como dejar permanecer largo tiempo en un mismo ciudadano el poder. El pueblo se acostumbra a obedecerle y él se acostumbra a mandarlo; de donde se origina la usurpación y la tiranía."
Nothing is so dangerous as to let in power the same citizen for too long. The people gets used to obey him and he becomes used to rule it, from which usurpation and tyranny are born.
The funny thing is Chavez keeps presenting himself as the resurrected Simon Bolivar:
http://
desarrollosostenibleparav...ezuela.blogspot
Another thing is that we want to revert the dependency on oil, which is worse than ever.
Now we import more than ever. Real industries
are having a hard time in Venezuela.
Another thing is that we want more security.
If you check out United Nations statistics, you will see that since Chavez is in power, the murder rate has more than doubled and the vast majority of those who die are the poorest: in over 8 years and the rate has not just remained the same, but more than double. Tell me of a country with such development. Crime is stable in Chile (much much safer than the USA), even in dangerous countries such as Mexico or Brazil (where the crime rate is not as high as in Venezuela).
What Chavez is doing is spending a part of the huge amounts of money from the oil boom. Remember oil prices are nowadays over 5 times what they were in 1999.
The "nice pictures" Ow is putting online all the time are nothing but what all governments in an oil boom used to do. We saw that in the seventies. We saw that (at least my parents) in the fifties. Only now the Chavez elite steal more, people are afraid to call referendums, people are afraid because they can be called 'fatherland's traitors'.
Little notice: do not believe the crap of Ow about
free education now. It has been free for decades. My parents studied like that and they were very poor. Same thing will all the people that I know but for a couple of friends. Health services were for free and they were not as bad as now as now the bosses of hospitals are all chavistas and they are invariably the worst students of their years...only that now they can 'grow and become rich" because they support Chavez. They make
Kepler, interestring to see after all this time your disdain for actual facts remains alive and well. You are as incorrigible as the rest of the opposition. 
Hey Edmundo listen carefully
Trolleybus de merida, Metro de valencia, Metro de maracaibo, Metro de caracas, Transbarca, IAFE, are all STATE OWNED transportation systems. They are run for public service not private profit. They were built by the private sector but that's because Venezuela does not have as far as i know a nationalised bus making company or a nationalised transportation construction company. Maybe that's something Chavez wants to consider either nationalising companies like FANABUS or creating a state owned company. As for tendering out bus services well it's not going to happen my capitalist friend despite your longing for the past. Neo liberalism is fucking dead in Venezuela and a good thing to. Tendering out bus services is an abomination which we in britain have had to put up with, crap services, higher fares etc. And as for the CAP remark well i was joking you idiot!!!!
"Neo liberalism is fucking dead in Venezuela and a good thing to."
Steve, the fact that you masturbate to a picture of Chavez kissing Fidel doesn't make you an expert on latinamerica. You don't know shit about Venezuela and Venezuelans.
If you so fucking love it here, and you're so fucking socialist, why haven't you traded your life, your so-called crappy services there with someone from Venezuela who needs it more?
FRD what a stupid strawman argument that is. You can't accept that your way of life is dead and that the failed neo liberal capitalist model is dead in Venezuela. VIVA SOCIALISMO, VIVA CHAVEZ
Well, Steve, he can't nationalize Man Ferrostaal and the many other foreign companies that he needs to continue expansion of power plants, etc... Steve, there will always be a capitalist component to Venezuela, like it or not.
Steve you goof, that is what I said to begin with. Dude you only read what you want. Of course the system is public, but the people who built it are not. The bus company that built the trolleys is a private firm (does anyone know if they were even built in VZL). The architects are probably a combination of state and private. The construction company that built the roads and shelters and buildings are private. The state forks up the money, but the crew that puts it together is not state workers. By the way the public transit system in Caracas, if you have ever been there you would know, is for the birds. It is shit, except for the metro. They need better public transit in Caracas to get people to stop driving so much. Not just the main core east to west, but to all the neighborhoods. The ones with the most cars are the middle and upper classes, yet they have the worst public transit available to them, if any. I am from Las Lomas de La Trinidad in Caracas, if you don't have a car your fucked. I once went from my house to my cousins in El Paraíso by carito, metro bus and then metro and then carito again, and it took me like 3.5 hours. I can go from Ottawa to Toronto in just as much time. By the way the por puestos are not public system, they are private. The only public system in Caracas is the metro and metro bus.
Easy on Steve, he is not stable. He may go postal in his hometown and a bunch of innocent people that know nothing about Venezuela will pay with their lives for our taunting him.
With all these public sector projects they need state owned companies to build them and design them. My suggestion to chavez is to either nationalise all the construction companies in Venezuela or create some which i think he is planning to do anyway. I have been to Caracas and the transport excepting Metrobus is shit but that is because it is privately run.
"My suggestion to chavez is to either nationalise all the construction companies in Venezuela or create some..."
Keep dreaming. Venezuela will always need foreign capitalist expertise just as most nations in the world rely on each other for certain specialties. No matter how noble, it's just not practical for everything to be created from within. The closest a society has come to that kind of self sufficiency is North Korea with their Juche philosophy, and you see where that's got them.
If you nationalize the constuction sector you would drain the country of all the Italians!!
Firstly venezuela does not forever need foreign expertise. If it develops its own research and development for its industry it will not need them. In any case for the time being it can turn to china or russia for its expertise.
"If you nationalise the construction sector you would drain the country of all italians"
The so be it!!
Hey Ow here is the updated Caracas Metro map with all the plans on the horizon
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wiki...14/
Mmap1vg1.gif
Steve, please give me one (not two) success story of an economy run like the one you are proposing.
That system would be awesome. That would solve many problems in Caracas.
Caracas already has great mass transit. Sure if you are going from one outer area to another that can involve multitple transfers and be time consuming. That is true with any transit system. Try going from a town on Long Island to one in New Jersey via mass transit.
Transit systems are expensive so you build them where MOST people go MOST of the time. For travel from one area to another that is not on one of those main routes a car will always be faster.
The main problem with the Caracas system is crowding. But that has already been partially resolved and should be further resolved once the number 5 line is finished.
Campaign for free public transport
http://www.ssp-election-2007.org...blic-transport/
http://www.scottishsocialistpart...port/
index.html
Socialism or not what is happening in Venezuela is more people are eating enough and eating more than before, more people are housed decently, the government is responsive to people's opinions to the extent that a group of juvenile oppositionists got to address the national legislature and the entire country over TV and radio, the President goes on the air, speaks of his plans and takes questions from "ordinary people"...
No doubt there are problems - not all popular food items are always available so people sometimes have to pass up what they might prefer and accept a substitute. No doubt there is too much crime though it is going down, and there is corruption. Doesn't sound like paradise to me, just a place where things were very bad but getting a lot better.
Anonymous> How about Cuba and the isle of man
"Doesn't sound like paradise to me, just a place where things were very bad but getting a lot better."
Very, very well put.
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