All these clowns are recycling Wilpert's piece as we recycle wastewater hoping it will come out pristine at the end of the process. It seems that Neustaldt is nowhere to be found for some time now.
Neustaldt's testimony is public domain it is for all to see, but no... it is his retreat to private life is what really matters... that is the "long form" of the Birth Certificate debate that birthers lean on.
What really matters is the Otto Neustald snafu. Here is a man who claimed his video was manipulated, edited by the Bolivarian Government. So what are we supposed to believe? Whatever our own bias dictate.
Bullshit he never claimed that, he said it was used WITHOUT his permision, he was whining about copyright, not veracity.
I put a better video just in case, so the entire context is viewed, there were deaths planed a whole day before the coup, and only birther nutcases still cling to their intelligent design.
Flanker, please read the following, especially the last sentence of paragraph 4. Then come back to me and say again: "Bullshit he never claimed that..."
http://www.analitica.com/
BITBLIO...ueda_prensa.asp
"Pregunta: Hay una parte en el vídeo que transmitieron que vimos, que usted dice que recibió una llamada el día 10 en la noche indicándole que iba a haber un vídeo, que iban a haber una declaración contra Chávez, y después volvemos a ver en el vídeo que transmitieron, que a las 11 de la mañana recibió otro llamada indicándole que no eran ya veinte sino menos, pero representativo y que iban a haber los muertos en los mismos contextos ¿cómo se explica eso?
Otto Neustald: No tengo que explicarlo, recibí la llamada es totalmente cierto. Así como la recibí yo, vimos que Jorge Olavarría dijo que a él también le habían dicho que se iba a romper el hilo constitucional y le llevaron una copia del decreto, mucha gente más también lo hizo. Yo fui a un medio de comunicación a avisarles de lo que me acaban de informar, yo lo notifiqué en ese momento yo trabajaba para CNN, yo lo notifiqué a mi Mesa de Asignaciones, el día 11 lo volví a notificar y traté de avisarle a todas las personas que podían a hacer algo en ese momento, no fui lógicamente además cuántas veces no recibimos montones de denuncias o de datos que nos dan que no podemos confirmar sino hasta que ocurren."
There you go AGAIN, fricking birthers. He is whining that the government clipped his attacks on Chavez.
"También en ese video yo digo que en última instancia el gobierno de Hugo Chávez es responsable por la seguridad de todas las personas que habitan en este país y es responsable por cada una de las muertes al no haber protegido esas vidas.
Por otro lado en el video también digo que el presidente Hugo Chávez ha perdido esa investidura presidencial que obtuvo al principio, al comportarse de una manera que no corresponde con la imagen de un Presidente al haber atacado a la gente, haberse expuesto a que también lo ataquen. También digo en ese video, en ese video que en este país el presidente Hugo Chávez, en todo caso el gobierno de Hugo Chávez, ha utilizado a gente, a civiles, a adeptos de su gobierno para atacar a los periodistas, para atacar a la oposición y así evitarse o limitar sus responsabilidades y que no pueda ser señalado por abusos contra los derechos humanos. "
Yes we know you hate Chavez and you feel used, but the pertinent point in your video, the thing that actually mattered was your statement that you were called and told there was going to be a high level coup and people were going to die and you verified it in the bold above.
The veracity of the claims were never in doubt, just his whining about his copyright.
Denial, denial...... Fabrications, fabrications....
Fine let me put it on the OP as well.
OP???????
So this is what OW is down to now?
Your answer to the new education law, to the fascism by the GN on last weekends march, the law on videogames/toys, the conflict with Colombia, the closure of dozens of radio stations, the debacle of the private sector and the rampant inflation... is that "the opposition would be doing it even worse?"... based on what happened in 2002?
Dude.. its 2009, the whole political AND economical spectrum has changed. Most of those who pulled the strings in 2002 are not even in the country...
Also, you are extremely naive to think that nobody in any other political party is unfit to run the country. Its been over 10 years and lets not say that Chavez knows much about anything at all...
Nobody is asking you turn into a "pro opposition blogger" but at least talk about something relevant.... you are more of a sheep than those you criticize.
"Nobody is asking you turn into a "pro opposition blogger" but at least talk about something relevant.... you are more of a sheep than those you criticize."
What is relevant and you fail to notice is that the opposition is this blob of untrustworthy hidden fascism. How can I trust people that willingly defend people that planted snipers to ambush chavistas and THEIR side? How can you trust anyone that is willing to kill their own side?
I was never with the government, and if I ever turn against it it will be on my terms for some of the reasons you outline*, even if that means fighting you guys first and letting something humane rise from the ashes, Kepler with his whining about education is a far different opposition to the one that supported what was arguably the bloodiest coup of all times (not end result but in intention).
*The law looks like sensationalist nonsense, ie selling these games to minors, I still oppose it completely as psychobabble meddling.
"what was arguably the bloodiest coup of all times (not end result but in intention)"
Really? You seem more looney by the day, so here is a little tune for you.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h...h?
v=hnzHtm1jhL4
Flanker, the 2002 coup was rubbish, but I have the impression you had not been born in 1992. I saw the destruction, thought (wee hours of the day) they were attacking my student residence (San Bernardino, next to the Armada)
Two relatives who are doctors saw the murdered people, the wounded. We did not vote for Pérez, we actually marched peacefully against him etc.
How can people support a multiple murderer as Hugo?
ElTank
I didn't write this post. You'll know when I do write one.
BTW, how did this subject come up today anyways? Is there some anniversary that I am not thinking of?
"Flanker, the 2002 coup was rubbish, but I have the impression you had not been born in 1992."
The 1992 "incident" was nothing short of a coup, and I am 100% glad that attempt was defeated.
That said the opposition cannot say the same, they try but they always derail themselves along the way exposing their regret at a missed opportunity.
Also while Chavez did plan to topple Perez and as a side effect he man slaughtered a bunch of soldiers... What the opposition did then was beyond the pale, it was murdering civilians by sniper fire, both Chavistas and their own.
"BTW, how did this subject come up today anyways? Is there some anniversary that I am not thinking of?"
A post at CC.
a "side effect" and just "soldiers", huh?
http://www.urru.org/fotos/
fotosv...esse_Chacon.jpg
http://doc.noticias24.com/0702/4...pp/
golpe4f2.jpg
Look "man of facts", you're not better than the 2002 apologists.
What's the difference between those morons and the chavistas celebrating 4F and 11N as National Holidays?
http://www.rnv.gov.ve/noticias/?...=ST&f=2&
t=43562
Do you even try to think logically before you write a post?
I'm amazed at the sellective memory you and your fellow chavistas have.
Zippyti do da, I still don't understand how you lack all of your reading comprehension. 1992 was a bloody coup but 2002 was closer to sadism.
That said I retract my claim on lack of civilian casualties as I cannot back it up.
flanker writes:
"I was never with the government"
No kidding!?
If you were not with chavismo you certainly hid it very well from us.
The inanity of this blog is rising exponentially!
It is not my fault you could not keep up, now granted I have disliked the opposition all my life.
What really matters is the Otto Neustald snafu. Here is a man who claimed his video was manipulated, edited by the Bolivarian Government. So what are we supposed to believe? Whatever our own bias dictate.
Charly | 08.26.09 - 2:17 pm | #
Talk about the epitome of dishonesty.
In BOTH his first AND second statements Neustadl clearly says that the part about receiving a phone call on April 10th in which they talked about deaths was TRUE!!!
So, to answer your question, we are supposed to believe EXACTLY WHAT NEUSTADL SAID, AND THEN LATER VERIFIED IN HIS SECOND STATEMENT.
Neustadl never said that what he said about the April 10th phone call was not true. So there is only one thing to believe: exactly what he said. Anyone who tries to detract from that is simply being dishonest. Yes, you Charly.
Dude.. its 2009, the whole political AND economical spectrum has changed. Most of those who pulled the strings in 2002 are not even in the country...
Most of the major leaders of the opposition today were not only involved, but strongly supported the 2002 coup. Don't give me this shit that the opposition is somehow "different" now. Leopoldo Lopez, Antonio Ledezma, and all their spokespeople on Globovision. Its all the same crew.
In fact, even you Tank, and all your oppo buddies here and at CC also supported the coup. So don't even try that bullshit.
Hey, I have a novel idea for you oppos. Why not try being honest and telling the truth for once? Just admit it. You supported the coup, just like you support the coup in Honduras. Same shit, 7 years later.
Also, you are extremely naive to think that nobody in any other political party is unfit to run the country.
This statement in itself is extremely naive. What do you mean by "fit to run the country"??? What specific policies would they pursue?
The funny part is that we've been over this Tank, and you don't even know the answer. You don't even know what policies the opposition would pursue, so how on Earth could you decide if they are "fit" or not to run the country?
What's the difference between those morons and the chavistas celebrating 4F and 11N as National Holidays?
4F was a military rebellion against a government that was elected on an anti-neoliberal platform, but which then betrayed its supporters and put in place a package of neoliberal reforms, and when the people took to the streets to oppose those reforms the government sent in the military to massacre them. The government the proceeded to put the dead bodies in trash bags and dump them in mass graves in an attempt to cover up the massacre.
When the Chavez government has done anything even remotely similar to that, then I will also celebrate a coup attempt against them.
Until then, any comparison between the two coups is total horse shit.
Ah! What was missing! Our resident homophobe giving us a lesson in objectivity and history.
This is the funniest thread ever.
Ah, just what was missing! Our resident fascist poor-hating oppo moron engaging in a desperate ad hominem attack because she has no argument.
...sigh... Here we go again: a bunch of fanatics on each side, trying to smear the other side and avoiding any kind of information that might be relevant if it works against their particular worldview.
1) No one denies Otto's testimony. Doing it would be insane, like arguing you never saw Napoleón Bravo interviewing whatshisname the 12th and admitting they shot the video chez lui.
*BUT* (and here's where you have to try and stay with me)
2) There wasn't *ONE* coup d'état, centrally orchestrated, à la Pinochet. There are *many* factors involved, many coups, hesitations and individual butterfly-effect actions that lead up to Carmona and then Chávez coming back.
Thing is, you're so pressed at trying to blame one side, you forget to analyze "yours": If Carmona was a traditional coupster, why the hell did he leave the loyal chavista Guardia in the Palace? Chavismo had infiltrated oppo meetings and set up the pistoleros on Puente Llaguno, or do you really believe that was spontaneous? Of course there were snippers. But not all deaths can be pinned on them, just as not all deaths came from the pistoleros. In a traditional coup, Vasquez Velasco would *never* have written his communiqué. What about the meeting in Fuerte Tiuna? What about Usón's testimony and claims? What about Lucas Rincón? What about Danilo?
You'll *never understand* this if you continue to promote the blunt, reductionist and one-sided view according to which "oppo snipers shot the crowd/Chávez ousted/el bravo pueblo got him back" or "Chávez killed people/Carmona popped out of nowhere/he screwed up on his own/Chávez came back".
That's the problem. Just as you reduce opposition to a bunch of fanatic hacks or chavistas to a bunch of radicales resentidos, here you try and fudge the other side's claims in order to keep your story intact.
This is a cul-de-sac post and comment section.
Let the ranting begin.
I assume you are only 10 years old, then. Otherwise you're saying you have also been adeco prior 1999.
Again, man, first think, then write.
BTW, I've also always hated the people you failed to express you hate, but unlike you I'm not looking for ways to minimize coups just because I agree ideologically with their perpetrators. And yes, you are minimizing it when you are saying the one attempted by your political adversaries is worse.
And if you look at the fact that body bags where more extensively used after your comrades', it makes you sound not just hypocritical but also like a lunatic.
For instance, I seriously disagree with the Honduras coup and think Zelaya should be put back in power no matter what a clown he is.
Of course I also feel nauseous when I hear Raul Castro defending democracy and asking for a bloqueo to Honduras.
But also I think what Venezuelan Government did to Ledezma is a coup too, and I see Farías as illegitimate and much as a coupster as Micheletti.
I also disagree with the coup against Gutierrez in Ecuador, which very few people seemed to care about. I wonder if it had something to do with the fact that it opened the door for a quicker election of Correa as president?
See? unlike you, at least I try to be somewhat consistent with my principles.
The above comment was a reply to Flanker's post when he was telling us about him hating the opposition all of his life, by the way.
What is relevant and you fail to notice is that the opposition is this blob of untrustworthy hidden fascism. How can I trust people that willingly defend people that planted snipers to ambush chavistas and THEIR side? How can you trust anyone that is willing to kill their own side?
Is it?
Is it relevant what you think some of your visitors are for?
I certainly don't agree with any coup and hate the guts of the idiots who ran the 2002 charade. However, being the third quarter of 2009
What is relevant and you fail to notice is that the opposition is this blob of untrustworthy hidden fascism. How can I trust people that willingly defend people that planted snipers to ambush chavistas and THEIR side? How can you trust anyone that is willing to kill their own side?
Is it?
Is it relevant what you think some of your visitors are for?
I certainly don't agree with any coup and hate the guts of the idiots who ran the 2002 charade. However, being the third quarter of 2009 and seeing that you don't post anything "actual" just gives the feeling that you just cant get off the kool-aid and write about what is going on TODAY.
Its not like there aren't any current topics or that you don'th ave the time...
You may criticize QQ for their posts, but they are usually about "actual" events.
BTW, how did this subject come up today anyways? Is there some anniversary that I am not thinking of?
Quico posted something about that book on April 11th and Flanker couldn't help himself...
1) No one denies Otto's testimony. Doing it would be insane, like arguing you never saw Napoleón Bravo interviewing whatshisname the 12th and admitting they shot the video chez lui.
Thank you Vinz for being honest!!! ALL OPPO MORONS PLEASE TAKE NOTE. Vinz is capable of being honest. Are you?
2) There wasn't *ONE* coup d'état, centrally orchestrated, à la Pinochet.
Sure. This could be true. There could have been many different plans. But you cannot deny that opposition forces had planned to carry out a coup on April 11th, even if there were several different plans.
There are *many* factors involved, many coups, hesitations and individual butterfly-effect actions that lead up to Carmona and then Chávez coming back.
Yep, I can see that. Certainly possible.
If Carmona was a traditional coupster, why the hell did he leave the loyal chavista Guardia in the Palace?
Don't know, but someone has to protect the palace. Maybe he felt like they wouldn't do anything. After all, they didn't really do anything until almost 2 days later.
Chavismo had infiltrated oppo meetings and set up the pistoleros on Puente Llaguno, or do you really believe that was spontaneous?
I think this is only partially true. Yes, Chavez had infiltrated oppo meetings, and they knew that the oppo was going to try to get to the Palace, so they arranged to have the palace surrounded by Chavez supporters. But that doesn't mean Chavez wanted those people to shoot from the bridge. It is certainly possible that the pisotleros only began shooting once they began to recieve shots from the PM or from snipers in the buildings.
Of course there were snippers. But not all deaths can be pinned on them, just as not all deaths came from the pistoleros.
Agreed. In fact if you look at where the deaths ocurred, it is NEARLY IMPOSSIBLE that ANY of the deaths came from the pistoleros, as they were several blocks away. A pistol is extremely ineffective at that range.
In a traditional coup, Vasquez Velasco would *never* have written his communiqué.
Why not?
What about the meeting in Fuerte Tiuna? What about Usón's testimony and claims? What about Lucas Rincón? What about Danilo?
What about them? How does any of that refute my version of events? Read Wilpert's account. How does any of that contradict his account?
That's the problem. Just as you reduce opposition to a bunch of fanatic hacks or chavistas to a bunch of radicales resentidos, here you try and fudge the other side's claims in order to keep your story intact.
Nope. Not true. The difference between the oppo version of events and a version like Wilpert's, for example, is that Wilpert's version of events addresses ALL THE AVAILABLE EVIDENCE. The oppo version just leaves out the evidence that they don't like. This is the definition of one-sided hackery.
But, in conclusion Vinz, I'd like to point out that you totally contradict Brian Nelson's version of events. Nelson tries to claim that the coup was not pre-planned by opposition forces, and that the coup only happened AFTER people were killed in the street on April 11th.
Since you have been honest so far, I hope you will be honest enough to admit that Brian Nelson's account is factually wrong. And that his refusal to look at basic evidence like Otto Neustadl or, as you mentioned, the Napoleon Bravo interview, means his account is a one-sided hack job.
I really hope you'll continue to be honest, and can be an example for all the dishonest oppos.
However, being the third quarter of 2009 and seeing that you don't post anything "actual" just gives the feeling that you just cant get off the kool-aid and write about what is going on TODAY.
Tank, why don't you go tell this to Quico, or Brian Nelson, who are also writing about this topic? Oh, I forgot, they say what you like to hear, so you don't have any problem with it.
This whole fucking post is in response to the bullshit they spout. Had they not kept trying to rewrite the story of April 11th, we wouldn't need to respond. So go direct your complaints at them, and stop coming here to complain. If you don't like what is being discussed at this blog, just don't come here. It's really easy.
"Ah! What was missing! Our resident homophobe giving us a lesson in objectivity and history.
This is the funniest thread ever.
berenice | Homepage | 08.27.09 - 12:43 am | #
Ah, just what was missing! Our resident fascist poor-hating oppo moron engaging in a desperate ad hominem attack because she has no argument.
ChronicallyClueless | Homepage | 08.27.09 - 12:56 am | # "
as hominem wise you beat me hands down.
Please, tell me how you can write about me that I am a fascist poor hater. Because on the other hand there is more than a reference on you being a disgusting fascist homophobe.
In case your grammar fails you, homophobe is not an ad hominem whereas fascist is. Homophobe is an adjective describing a mental condition that might be cured, usually when the homophobe finally comes out of his closet. On the other hand fascist is a choice and as such an insult when used without evidence to support it.
I must remind you that I am a lesbian and as such I have learned long ago to manage insults sent my way. It is not going to be an immature, probably pimple faced, closeted rude creep like you that is going to scare me.
I see that this blog continues to be about hate and accusations:
First we hated the anti Chavistas,
and now:
we hate the antiChavistas
some progress 
as hominem wise you beat me hands down.
Nope, but thanks for demonstrating that you have no clue what an ad hominem is.
Ad hominem is not the same as an insult. An ad hominem when you resort to personal attacks INSTEAD of addressing the argument at hand. This is not what I have done. I have addressed the argument at hand. You have not. Please don't make me explain this again you fucking moron -- (this in an insult, not an ad hominem)
Because on the other hand there is more than a reference on you being a disgusting fascist homophobe.
Homophobe? Nice try. I've never said a single thing about homosexuals here or anywhere else. Show me where, or stop lying.
In case your grammar fails you, homophobe is not an ad hominem whereas fascist is.
Again you demonstrate just how fucking retarded you are. You don't even know what an ad hominem is as I clearly showed you up above.
I must remind you that I am a lesbian and as such I have learned long ago to manage insults sent my way.
Good for you. But apparently you've never leared to actually address the argument being made instead of engaging in desperate ad hominems attacks.
You are exactly what my blog is all about; chronically clueless opposition idiots.
I see that this blog continues to be about hate and accusations:
JSB, try not to be such a fucking blatant hypcritical moron.
The blogs you love the most are just full of hatred for Chavez.
"First we hated Chavistas
and now:
We hate Chavistas even more irrationally than ever."
Shit, that could be the fucking slogan over at Daniel's nut house.
It would be nice if Tosh's posts had a different color so that we could skip them faster.
(An idea for the developers)
Flanker, I knew there was going to be a coup in the first Q of 1992. I was absolutely sure and I discussed it with a friend several times. Was I into it? Not at all, I just saw the signs on the wall. Half of the guys who said what they said on that video were indeed planning something. Others were feeling it but knew not much.
Anyway, about 1989: it is funny how none of Hugo's military friends has ever been prosecuted. It was not Pérez alone shooting at the people, do you know?
Finally: Vinz stated the right questions to Flanker.
Flanker, your turn to answer
"Show me where, or stop lying."
As anonymous? As tosh? as X? with you it is difficult to find a quote because before we must remember which is the pen name you used.
Still, thanks for your long hysterical answer: it stated my case. However I must point out something: from the pay you have handled other pro Chavez members of this blog it seems that the only true chavista here is you. Thus what does it really mean when you accuse anyone to be opposition?
As anonymous? As tosh? as X? with you it is difficult to find a quote because before we must remember which is the pen name you used.
In other words, not only do you not have an argument, but you can't even back up your desperate ad hominem attacks!!!
Hahaha! Oh, Berenice, you are classic oppo trash. Thanks for playing.
I propose Flanker to receive the Orden del Libertador en su Primera Clase, to honor his support for the fascist venezuelan government.
Now, who's with me?
I haven't read Nelson's book but I will get a copy before the end of the year. I did read "El caso Danilo Anderson", which just complicates things even more.
All I'm saying is don't fudge the facts or reduce all the opposition, all the people that marched the 11th in good faith, to "fascist" golpistas. You don't like it when Ravel calls chavistas "desdentados pata en el suelo", ignorants who vote with their belly, etc.; so why reduce *all* opposition to Isacc Pérez Recao.
1) I bring up Usón because he's one of the only to have an inside account of Fuerte Tiuna on the 11th. There was *confusion and lack of leadership*, that's what lead to the military debacle, apart from the only guy who ever had balls in this revolution, Baduel.
2) Coups have military contacts, with troops, not the retired clowns who came on TV the 11th. Anyone in the military knew the threat to bomb the palace was a bluff since they didn't have access to planes.
3) Vasquez Velasco and Rosendo's hesitation on Plan Ávila show they weren't "in" on the coup, at least not directly. Their choices triggered the coup, but they far from planned bulking on Plan Ávila.
4) Why? Because Rosendo et al. met with Chávez the 9-10th and warned him of a plan to oust him. Did Chávez listen? No. He decided to implement "Plan Colina", against Rosendo's advice, and *arm* brigades around Miraflores in a desperate anachronic revival of Allende.
5) *That's why* VV and Rosendo stayed put. That and the ruling, 10th April, of international courts to apprehend Pinochet, setting a never seen precedent to incarcerate people on Human Right Claims. They thought they'd hang them out to dry.
6) Chávez *knew* the march would go to Miraflores. Heck, it was on TV, for Chrisake. Did he do anything about it? No. He is responsible of banking the defense solely on Plan Colina and a kamikaze Plan Ávila that, thank God, never came into action.
7) Furthermore, it is completely irresponsible and an insult to venezuelans to try and pin this on Simonovis, Forero, etc., and say "case closed". This is REVISIONISM. The whole Asembly should be indicted for such a shameful act. Selling the sugar-coated story of "El pueblo", erasing Baduel from history, ignoring Vásquez Velasco, who *never* strayed away from the constitution, and much more is UNACCEPTABLE.
I accuse Flanker, out of sheer ignorance or blatant omision of facts, is directly or indirectly contributing to said revisionism. You irresponsibly cast everyone who disagrees with Chávez in a Carmona shadow in order to discredit them. Therefore, I have a direct question:
What's the difference between ganging up and beating Tarek Williams Saab, Ronald Blanco La Cruz and others, in 2002; and ganging up and beating Capriles Journalists in 2009? YOU CANT HAVE IT BOTH WAYS. If you think Tarek had it tough and Human Rights were violated in 2002, you should be appaled by Chávez' Carmonesque approach to the 2009 events by protecting thugs and justi
I am expecting Flanker to praise Hugo if finally, after so many years, petrol prices are increased:
http://el-nacional.com/www/site/...a-de-95-
octanos
He will sell it as an achievement and he will say: you only criticize, he could have kept them the same, but he chose the right moment, blablabla.
Right.
Flanker, do we thank Hugo because we have Morrocoy and the Auyan Tepui?
Tank, why don't you go tell this to Quico, or Brian Nelson, who are also writing about this topic? Oh, I forgot, they say what you like to hear, so you don't have any problem with it.
I didn't participate in Quico's post, but frankly they post once, twice and sometimes more per day. They stay on top of whatever is "actual" and present their opinions. I can read Quico or Daniels, or any of the otherso ppinions on all the "relevant subjects"...
OW is updated once every couple weeks... with some trash post like this.
This whole fucking post is in response to the bullshit they spout. Had they not kept trying to rewrite the story of April 11th, we wouldn't need to respond. So go direct your complaints at them, and stop coming here to complain. If you don't like what is being discussed at this blog, just don't come here. It's really easy.
The story is not conclusive, and frankly... as of July 2009, I don't care. Im happy accepting both sides of the story and coming to my own mixed conclusion... Quico tough the book was worth a read so he promoted it... Flanker however is just re-stating stuff that has been said 1000 times.
Im done arguing with an idiot who not only has the time to follow and post his rants on every blog.. but now he also runs "Chronically Clueless"... how is one supposed to take you seriously when you post with different names everywhere?
OW should just stick to publishing his own posts.. .Flanker sucks.
unemployment jumped significantly in July to 8.5%.
I think there is little doubt that Venezuela is in a recession at this point.
"JSB, try not to be such a fucking blatant hypcritical moron."
Chronically Clueless Chris Carlson, try to read who wrote what before you fly off the handle. And try not to be so ugly in your discourse.
chronically clueless:yo say:
"First we hated Chavistas
and now:
We hate Chavistas even more irrationally than ever"
The difference is that Daniel has ALWAYS been against Chavez, but OW has claimed to have made a change of heart.He now does not like Chavez....
but we see his anti oppo stance is as bad or worse than ever, so his change is useless to anybody at this point.Useless to Chavez and useless to the oppo
To call one's self "chronically clueless" is to lead with one's chin, no? In today's lingo especially doesn't "chronic" imply marijuana with a very high THC content?
In today's lingo especially doesn't "chronic" imply marijuana with a very high THC content?
Ok,mister street talk expert.Some body give this oppo a medal!
chron·ic
adj.
1. Of long duration; continuing: chronic money problems.
2. Lasting for a long period of time or marked by frequent recurrence, as certain diseases: chronic colitis.
3. Subject to a habit or pattern of behavior for a long time: a chronic liar.
Change of topic:
It's great news that the trouble makers are being arrested.....at last. Lina Ron, Richard Blanco and anyone else who subverts public order.
Flanker is so right. You can oppose Chavez but can you support the trash opposition and stomach the people who support them?
Kepler never gives up. If a babboon had written Nelson´s piece of propaganda Kepler would endorse it.
t's great news that the trouble makers are being arrested.....at last. Lina Ron, Richard Blanco and anyone else who subverts public order.
What a Joke, Lina Ron attacked Globovision with over 40 people. They are all on camera, yet only Lina Ron has been arrested. They can all be identified (and they are probably all members of UPV and los circulos)
Justice?
lets not forget... Chavez awarded the highest military award in Venezuela to a guy that shouted ideological bullshit trough a loudspeaker and threw gas at crowd.
That makes you a hero?
I guess thats justice too...
Clueless
You really are clueless.
Anonymous
You do make a point about Daniel, at least he has consistency.
Back to Clueless
I think the reason you hate Daniel so much (and there are reasons to hate him, I agree) is that you do not have his writing skills. For a non native speaker he can write some dazzling stuff.
http://www.urbandictionary.com/d...hp?
term=chronic
1. chronic 8506 up, 1621 down
April 20, 2009 Urban Word of the Day
1) very high-quality weed, generally with red hairs on it.
2) pertaining to a long-lasting medical condition.
From smoking too much chronic, Joe ended up with a chronic case of the shaky-shivers.
Even were it not the case who the hell calls himself "chronically clueless?"
Berenice,
That anonymous was me Firepig:when I said:
chronically clueless:yo say:
"First we hated Chavistas
and now:
We hate Chavistas even more irrationally than ever"
The difference is that Daniel has ALWAYS been against Chavez, but OW has claimed to have made a change of heart.He now does not like Chavez....
but we see his anti oppo stance is as bad or worse than ever, so his change is useless to anybody at this point.Useless to Chavez and useless to the oppo
I don't really get where it is all leading.
I haven't read Nelson's book but I will get a copy before the end of the year.
Go listen to the interview I linked to on my site. Listen to how he claims the coup was not pre-planned by oppo forces. Then, if you are honest, you will come back here and tell me that he is a liar.
all the people that marched the 11th in good faith, to "fascist" golpistas. You don't like it when Ravel calls chavistas "desdentados pata en el suelo", ignorants who vote with their belly, etc.; so why reduce *all* opposition to Isacc Pérez Recao.
I have never criticized the innocent people who did not know that a coup was underway. In fact, that's what makes it so perverse. The oppos used their own people as cannon fodder in their plan to carry out a coup.
The people who I criticize here are those who are too dishonest (nearly all the oppos here) to take an objective look at the evidence.... those people who try to deny the obvious, the hard evidence such as the Napoleon Bravo interview, the Neustadlt testimony that shows the coup was pre-planned.
2) Coups have military contacts, with troops, not the retired clowns who came on TV the 11th. Anyone in the military knew the threat to bomb the palace was a bluff since they didn't have access to planes.
Retired clowns? Dude, it was the high military command that renounced Chavez, and large parts of the military went along with it.
You make it sound like the whole military was on Chavez's side. That's simply not true. If it weren't for Baduel and some pro-Chavez elements the military might have never turned back the tide.
3) Vasquez Velasco and Rosendo's hesitation on Plan Ávila show they weren't "in" on the coup, at least not directly. Their choices triggered the coup, but they far from planned bulking on Plan Ávila.
How do you know they hadn't planned on doing it exactly that way ahead of time? You take their word for it after the fact?
4) Why? Because Rosendo et al. met with Chávez the 9-10th and warned him of a plan to oust him. Did Chávez listen? No. He decided to implement "Plan Colina", against Rosendo's advice, and *arm* brigades around Miraflores in a desperate anachronic revival of Allende.
Everyone knew a coup was in the works. But Chavez didn't know how many people among his own administration were involved. If Rosendo met with him beforehand to warn him that is inconsequential. Everyone knew that something was up.
Chávez *knew* the march would go to Miraflores. Heck, it was on TV, for Chrisake. Did he do anything about it? No. He is responsible of banking the defense solely on Plan Colina and a kamikaze Plan Ávila that, thank God, never came into action.
Dude, this is more of the same oppo distortion. The Plan Avila that Chavez was going to implement was simply to protect the palace. It had nothing to do with shooting or killing anyone, like the Plan Avila of CAP.
7) Furthermore, it is completely irresponsible and an insult to venezuelans to try and pin this on Simonovis, Forero, etc., and say "case closed".
No one is "pinning" the whole coup on them. But they are guilty for their involvement. Audio recordings show that they had infiltrated La Nacional building and were shooting at the Chavistas from there.
This is REVISIONISM. The whole Asembly should be indicted for such a shameful act. Selling the sugar-coated story of "El pueblo", erasing Baduel from history, ignoring Vásquez Velasco, who *never* strayed away from the constitution, and much more is UNACCEPTABLE.
Not sure this is completely true. Chavismo certainly has its own distortions of what happened, but I don't think anyone is trying to erase Baduel from history.
You irresponsibly cast everyone who disagrees with Chávez in a Carmona shadow in order to discredit them.
Huh? Not sure what you're talking about. I'm not saying anyone is a shadow of Carmona. I'm saying that people who try to deny the evidence are dishonest hacks. Nothing more.
Therefore, I have a direct question:
What's the difference between ganging up and beating Tarek Williams Saab, Ronald Blanco La Cruz and others, in 2002; and ganging up and beating Capriles Journalists in 2009?
They are both stupid, violent acts.
Tank - how many armed goons does Richard Balnco employ a "bodyguards"? At least seven and they were all in the march. Now he's in Yare and may not come out alive.
I expect boicones such as Borges and others to try and provoke chaos in the streets. All well and good.
I look forward to seeing them arrested as well.
Justice? Justice would have been the firing squad for the coup plotters in 2002 but Chavez was too soft.
The Opposition are a bunch of hacks?
Nice title. A generalization worthy of the worst totalitarian mentality, I would add.
The "opposition" to Chavez, may I remind you, includes people from all walks of life, from all the ideological flavors. Some are radicals. Some are remarkably moderate. Some are ex-chavista. Some have been declared "enemies" by chavismo while they do not consider themselves as such. Some are only one-issue (religious, education, academic, free press, clean elections) and find themselves having to oppose chavismo's charging into their fields.
They just have one common trait: They do not like to follow orders blindly, from Hugo Chavez and the PSUV. A man and a party known for their zero tolerance for dissent. On any issue.
Many did not have anything to do with the 2002 happenings. Some even denounced them partially or entirely as they happened. Why do not you put it up the videos of these?
But go on, make us believe that anybody in Venezuela who does not follow Chavez blindly is somehow responsible for April 2002.
An opposition government will be far more balanced than you make it up to be.
Gravatar Tank - how many armed goons does Richard Balnco employ a "bodyguards"? At least seven and they were all in the march. Now he's in Yare and may not come out alive.
Frankly Im not familiar with his case. However, its surprising that it took a week to determine the outcome of such a high profile case.
Also... every single high rank chavista has "bodyguards" or goons as you call them to block streets so that they can drive trough.
Justice? Justice would have been the firing squad for the coup plotters in 2002 but Chavez was too soft.
Justice would be for every Venezuelan to have a FAIR trial in an un-biased court. Justice would be for every crime to be prosecuted.. justtice would be to look into the dealings of Diosdado, Chacon and Ramirez.
Justice would be to arrest all those "La Piedrita" terrorists who are still around even when Chavez denounced them on TV.
Justice would be for all Venezuelans to have a government that listens to their demands and brings people together... not a government that is focused on staying in power, values ideology above accomplishments and education and has divided Venezuelans and turned them into violent human beings.
Look up justice in the dictionary..
Lorenzo, Flanker is not better than the "hacks" he criticizes.
He praises himself of being a "man of facts" and balanced, yet he confuses what only happens in his mind with facts. In an post about some tanks he stated "the opposition" claims that Chavez plans on invading Colombia. I asked him who said it and if he could provide a link proving someone that holds some representativity saying such nonsense. I'm still waiting for his "facts". Nobody has ever said it but in his mind he imagines all the "fascists" saying that, so that's enough for him.
He also keeps telling to himself the 2002 coup was worse than the 1992 even though there's no reasonable measure to rank one coup "better" than the other one. I suppose that way he feels better for supporting a bunch of coupsters.
Anonymous,
Justice will be when they put you in jail and all the money your family has stolen is confiscated.
Justice will be when everybody reads about how you wanted people shot for things you and your kiln started doing from 1989 on (as it was not Pérez the only one responsible fo those murders, but your military)
In today's lingo especially doesn't "chronic" imply marijuana with a very high THC content?
Ok,mister street talk expert.Some body give this oppo a medal!
Aliva | 08.28.09 - 6:47 pm | #
And so, by pointing out that this guy makes himself ridiculous by calling himself "chronically clueless" I have joined the oppositionists?
Chronic has not hesitated to attack me with ad hominims because in his church, the church of Nim Chimpsky, it doesn't matter who actually is responsible for 9/11. He then goes on to call himself "chronically clueless" and I guess represents the thoughts of the present Venezuelan government under that rubric, and by pointing out the ridiculousity of that I've joined the enemies of Venezuela? Actually "chronically clueless" fits to a tee a guy who spends hour upon hour arguing about South Korea's relevancy to Venezuela with a handfulls of armchairs and vendepatrias while the world's on fire (or haven't you noticed?)
Eugene,
If this is the "Taxi driver Eugene" then I apologize the oppo label. But I believe that the site name is dedicated to the opposition who is Chronically Clueless.
And yes, I have noticed the world on fire first hand here on the west of the beast.
Chronic has not hesitated to attack me with ad hominims because in his church, the church of Nim Chimpsky, it doesn't matter who actually is responsible for 9/11.
??? Eugene, I have never once attacked you with ad hominems.
I have also never said it does not matter who is responsible for 9-11. It is obvious who is responsible: the same people who tried to blow it up in the 1990's and failed. The same people have been talking about attacking it ever since the 1982 Israeli invasion of Lebanon. Anyone who thinks Al-Qaeda isn't responsible for an attack that they had been planning for for decades, which they were training for inside the U.S. for years prior to the attack, which boarded the very planes that morning, is simply not looking at the evidence.
He then goes on to call himself "chronically clueless" and I guess represents the thoughts of the present Venezuelan government under that rubric, and by pointing out the ridiculousity of that I've joined the enemies of Venezuela?
This statement doesn't even make any sense. I have never said you are an enemy of anyone, nor have I claimed you are among the opposition.
Seriously Eugene, get a grip man. You're just inventing nonsense here.
Actually "chronically clueless" fits to a tee a guy who spends hour upon hour arguing about South Korea's relevancy to Venezuela with a handfulls of armchairs and vendepatrias while the world's on fire (or haven't you noticed?)
Those who don't understand the relevancy of South Korea, one of the few post-colonial societies to have ever achieved economic development, in an overall discussion of economic development in Latin America, are simply ignorant of the topic.
He also keeps telling to himself the 2002 coup was worse than the 1992 even though there's no reasonable measure to rank one coup "better" than the other one.
Oh, so a coup against a government that had massacred its own people is no different from a coup against a government that had done no such thing?
You oppo guys sure try hard to justify the unjustifiable.
Most of those who massacred their own people are now in power...cap et alia did not do it on their own. Besides: that is a crappy excuse as Hugo carried out his bloody coup (and later his buddies) 3 years later and 2 years before Pérez was leaving for good.
Besides: how many people were they? 300000000? Or is it 3000? Names, please. NAMES!
Or is it perhaps 300? Well, not very different number from the sum of the two coups of 1992 if we were going to retort to pure counting...
Since 1998 Venezuela has experienced the highest increase in murder rate in any major L.A. country, including Mexico. Mexico is a failed state? Thousands are killed in Juarez? Sure...and globally in Mexico, with several times the population of Venezuela, there is only a fraction of the murders people see in Venezuela.
Most of those who massacred their own people are now in power...cap et alia did not do it on their own. Besides: that is a crappy excuse as Hugo carried out his bloody coup (and later his buddies) 3 years later and 2 years before Pérez was leaving for good.
Yeah, sure Kepler, the Caracazo wasn't CAP's fault. IT was the fault of the Chavistas!!!
And since CAP was leaving power in 2 years that means they should have just allowed him to stay in power after he massacred his own people and threw them in mass graves. Great logic!
Besides: how many people were they? 300000000? Or is it 3000? Names, please. NAMES!
Or is it perhaps 300? Well, not very different number from the sum of the two coups of 1992 if we were going to retort to pure counting...
Nice try Kepler, but you're a liar. There were between 300 - 5,000 deaths from the Caracazo, while only between 14-50 people died from Chavez's coup.
Hay un número impresionante de muertos, calculado según las fuentes, entre 300 y 5.000 muertos, enormes pérdidas materiales y miles de heridos. Fuentes extraoficiales señalaron que el número de muertos fueron más de 300. La represión fue especialmente dura en los barrios pobres de la capital.
http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caracazo
La cifra oficial de muertos fue de 14 personas. La cifra extraoficial es de 50 muertos y más de 100 heridos.
http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/
Gol...92_en_Venezuela
Since 1998 Venezuela has experienced the highest increase in murder rate in any major L.A. country, including Mexico.
All of Latin America has seen a huge increase in violent crime. To try to somehow implicate Chavez in this (and compare it to CAP's brutal massacre of his own people) is just more of the dishonest bullshit of the Venezuelan opposition. You play the part perfectly Kepler.
Tosh,
Wikipedia articles about Venezuela are checked around the clocked by chavistas like you.
Isn't this a little bit funny? 300 to 5000?
That is SOME range.
Where is the list? It is not like it was Rwanda. Where is the bloody list?
About murder: I have given sources before, I have no time for them now. United Nations (the crime and drug "unit") has the murder rates for most of South America. Numbers are stable to dropping in South America. Only thing:
Venezuela stopped sending its murder rate numbers in 2002, when Jesse (Arne's brother)
got the job for "Justice".
Still, we can get the numbers by adding reports for every police station in every region.
The murder rate in 1998 was 19 murders per 100000. Now it is around 70.
The murder rate in our neighbor country is around 50 now, lower than some years ago. In
chile it is around 2. I don't remember in Brazil but it has also been rather stable.
I have no more time now. I have to work (yeah, very late here).
Go to teach English to Venezuelan pupils
Wikipedia articles about Venezuela are checked around the clocked by chavistas like you.
Hahahahaha!!! Oh right. Wikipedia is just a big Chavista conspiracy!!!! Jesus Kepler, thanks for playing the part so well. That was the perfect response!!!
Yea, Tosh, Wikipedia is the Bible. Just look at the Wiki wars
Take a look:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
Tal...z.27_section.3F
Look at the bloody sources in that Wikipedia article: Aporrea, La Patria Grande (commie site), the chavista government and a Polar page that is not working. Right.
Whom are you trying to fool? Do you think we are being read right now by thousands of US citizens who suddenly will believe you?
Where is the bloody list of the 3000?
Oh, so a coup against a government that had massacred its own people is no different from a coup against a government that had done no such thing?
You oppo guys sure try hard to justify the unjustifiable.
See, Flanker? You almost sound like this person when you start talking about "good" and "bad" coups. And you seem smarter than that.
PS. Thank you, Chronically whatever for proving my point. BTW, do you know for how long had the 1992 coupsters been conspiring? only you and other very few coup apologists are delusional enough to believe the coup was caused by the 27F massacre. But who cares? that makes you feel better about supporting and justifying coups, doesn't it?
Look at the bloody sources in that Wikipedia article: Aporrea, La Patria Grande (commie site), the chavista government and a Polar page that is not working. Right.
Kepler, you are a fucking moron. The only source that matters is the one which provided the information we are talking about. That source was La Fundacion Polar. Are you trying to say that the Fundacion Polar is involved in some kind of pro-Chavez conspiracy to distort Venezuela's history?
And if you just do a google search you easily find the original page that is the source:
http://www.fundacionempresaspola...rr/
4febr92.html
I love how you oppo guys try to find a way to weasel out of admitting the truth. You try your best to discredit anything you can, no matter how ridiculous and stupid your excuse is. Kepler, you are a fucking dishonest piece of opposition trash.
PS. Thank you, Chronically whatever for proving my point.
What point? That you are a retarded opposition hack that tried to act like all coups are the same, regardless of the conditions that surround them? It is the stupidest argument on earth.
Using your logic, a coup against Hitler would be the same as a coup against Nelson Mandela. In other words, you are retarded.
BTW, do you know for how long had the 1992 coupsters been conspiring? only you and other very few coup apologists are delusional enough to believe the coup was caused by the 27F massacre. But who cares? that makes you feel better about supporting and justifying coups, doesn't it?
It was the Caracazo that convinced them to take action and overthrow the government. You can even read that in the Polar link I posted up above. So this argument that "they were planning it before" is bogus.
And as far as supporting and justifying coups, you oppo idiots support the coup of 2002 and the Honduran coup of 2009, both of which were against democratically elected leaders who had not killed a single person.
ChronicallyClueless,
Are you Tosh? Now I am doubting. You seem 1) much more desperate (which is a lot) and 2) even more stupid.
1) Names
Where are the names?
You did not understand, probably it is my English. I hope you speak Spanish, so I ask again in Spanish: dónde están los nombres de los asesinados? Una cifra que va de 300 a 5000 no es seria: people have families, specially in Venezuela. Even in the worst case scenario, homeless people with no attachment, a commission could have followed it up.
2) Source
You seem to have a fetish for URLs, even if the authority behind it is feeble. Heck, I am sure if you look into some official documents of any country you will find lots of imprecision.
Shall I show you a lot of URL by US "scholars" at European universities or in the US discussing why Europe is so bad and the US so good? Or from Europeans doing the same thing?
Even when your lot discusses the fabled literacy of Venezuela, you always mention UNEScO, which actually never checked your very false statements.
Some pages in the Venezuela directory were published by...the Venezuelan government, as every government uploads quite some of its stuff.
Polar foundation? Give me a break.
3) The murders of the second coup, instigated by the same craps, were many more. Jesse chacon, the brother of multimillionare-in-a-year Arne chacón and ever-changing minister of everything, was one of the chavista thugs who relished in murdering people and taking pictures of themselves treading on corpses.
cc, you have no idea what logic is.
I stop discussing with you, it is a waste of time.
I have things to do. And you?
ChronicallyClueless | Homepage | 08.31.09 - 12:52 pm | #
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Actually I wasn't talking to you but to
Aliva | 08.28.09 - 6:47 pm | #
I haven't got time to argue with you.
What point? That you are a retarded opposition hack that tried to act like all coups are the same, regardless of the conditions that surround them? It is the stupidest argument on earth.
Using your logic, a coup against Hitler would be the same as a coup against Nelson Mandela. In other words, you are retarded.
What are you? 5 years old? so you can't avoid using insults to discuss. I'll debate you when you grow up, right now it's just a waste of time. I'll just tell you that you should do a better homework and find out when your heros started conspiring. They have admitted it themselves so they pretty much contradict you.
PS. Thank you for the comedic relief, I had a good laugh at you comparing Chavez to Mandela. You lunatic fanatics are always amusing.
PS. Thank you for the comedic relief, I had a good laugh at you comparing Chavez to Mandela. You lunatic fanatics are always amusing.
Yippy oh Yippy eh | 09.02.09 - 7:50 am | #
I didn't make that comparison. I simply showed how stupid your argument is that all coups are the same.
Obviously all coups are not the same. A coup against Hitler would not be the same as a coup against Nelson Mandela. The reason being that you have to take into account the conditions which surround the coup.
You made a stupid argument, and now you've tried to dance around it my misrepresenting my comments. Typical oppo hack.
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