It is not really that new all week prior to the AN debate they had met in a similar format at 8:00 AM in VTV (Yes Stalin and Goicochea were present on occasion), the point is that their spotlight was lost and they looked like spoiled children
I didn't see the VTV programs but I thought this was quite good. When was the last time you saw such a civil political discussion in Venezuela?
The moderator would have done better to have asked some more probing questions - still it was excellent.
Apologies to all the non-spanish speakers here. I don't really know how to alter YouTube videos to add sub-titles and for an hour and a half program it would be quite time consuming. If anyone has ideas on how to make this more accessible let me know.
Admittedly, my Spanish is pretty bad, but I can understand a good portion of it.
This is the debate that is critical because it points up the fundamentals of democracy: how information flows; who chooses what is significant; how do differing points of view come to the attention of the populous, etc.
Too bad we won't be seeing this type of debate in the US corporate media.
Basically, I just can't call a nation 'democratic' when a few multi-millionaires decide the parameters of acceptable debate. This functions to protect the status quo, but such a system is simply untenable when we are facing human-caused crises that must be attended by the whole of a nation's population.
"Too bad we won't be seeing this type of debate in the US corporate media."
Very true. Hector Rodriguez wouldn't be given 2 minutes on TV in the U.S. (and they say they have a free press!).
Kudos are in order to Globovision for allowing the discussion and even letting it run over its scheduled time.
Hector gave his opponent a copy of Chomsky at the end of the program!
Indeed, OW, this wouldn't have happened in US corporate media.
GV having to give gestures toward 'balance' and if they revert to form they will have their concession denied. Yes, they would revert to coup=promoting form if given the opprotunity.
There is an economics, imperialism, and class aspect to this issue that is rudimentary.
Why should Venezuela allow media that is naturally aligned with hostile, imperialistic and far more powerful foreign powers?
If they can't get with the democratic socialist program they are history.
"Hector gave his opponent a copy of Chomsky at the end of the program! "
And the moderator took a copy of The Chavez Code 
Freedom of SPeech and Expression is having the right to not have governement content jammed down your throat. The Cadena is the perfect example of the raping of freeedom of speech. Why so many Cadenas? To keep people from viewing what they want and when they want it. Is it a coincidence that on the day of the student speeches, Chavez calls a cadena during prime Globovision viewing, not allowing working poeple the opportunity to view the events fo the day? Instead they get a single-sided view of the day.
Wake Chavismo! God gave man a free will and a brain. Use it! Chavez doesn't want you to. These students should be commended for not spewing the company line like the rest of you red-shirted fools. Chavez should be embarrassed and ashamed.
Mark my words, he will go down in history as one of the biggest fools to ever live.
"Freedom of SPeech and Expression is having the right to not have governement content jammed down your throat. "
That is a pretty bizarre and absurd definition. More accurately, freedom of speach is the ability to say what you want, particularly with regard to the government and politics. It is a freedom Venezuelans clearly have as evidenced by the debate these two students had.
Cadenas dont' have anything to do with freedom of speach.
OW - but cadenas do have to do with freedom of information. One of the main reasons why there are cadenas is to ensure that the population knows what the government is doing since most of the achievements are simply not given the coverage they deserve.
The private media being so politicized and anti government hides this information and so Chavez has no option but to call cadenas on a regular basis.
In any case, the idea of a cadena has existed long beofre Chavez came on the political scene. He did not introduce the legislation.
PSUV
Globovision is clearly against the government. Please name other TV stations that are. Also, please name the ones that are pro-government. If you are honest about this, you will see that this administration has managed (via not renewing licenses or paying people off) to shut down dissent.
"Globovision is clearly against the government."
Is that the role of the media? To be against the government? And if it is can you name ONE network in the U.S. that is against the government?
I think the role of the news media is to provide information, ask questions, be skeptical, and give a variety of points of views. That is what most normal media do. And by that standard probably the most "normal" television media in Venezuela at this point is Venevision and Televen.
I did not say that that is the role of the media, but stated a fact. However, just as factual is that all the other stations are pro-government.
grac - give us examples of "paying people off to stifle dissent".
Frankly you're just full of it.
PSUV
"just as factual is that all the other stations are pro-government. "
Venevision is pro-government? Didn't they rather famously sponsor a candidate who opposed Chavez in the last election?
I was going to tip off a friend, but the videos are no longer available. Neither are the ones earlier posted, from the national assembly. Someone has pestered YouTube to remove them. Who and why?
Thanks for the heads up on that - that is a F#*$*ing outrage. The best and most civil discussion between supporters and opponents of Chavez in years and it was taken down?!?!?!
It sure can't be violating content rules so I can only imagine that Globovision complained or something.
I will try to find out.
Hmm. That is interesting how they just pulled the videos like that. Talk about media censorship!!!
The charismatic Chavista young man swept the floor with the oppo rep, but goddamn you'd think it was a video of an IED blowing up troops the way youtube pulled it so fast.
The media cant or are not allowed to show Chavistas as intelligent and coherent. It damages the perception that the outsiders are trying to create.
Pulpo.
You beat me to it - the only time videos get pulled that fast is when US troops are getting blown up (mind you, video of US troops killing insurgents can stay up forever).
The Chavista sure presented VERY well. No wonder they didn't want to debate the guy in the National Assembly in front of the entire country.
The videos are offered free on globovisions website:
http://globovision.batanga.com/D...com/
Default.asp
I can't seem to get them to open up. It could be my clunky service provider is not giving me enough bandwidth.
I was only able to watch the first part on YouTube and that not for comprehension, but just reading expressions and body language. Hector was charming the panties off both the moderator and Yon. Very naturally poised and spontaneous, thoughtful and engaging, y muy guapo. Yon seemed to be professionally coached;
quite formally poised, sticking to brief proscribed talking points and speaking directly at the camera.
Yes, but they are only partial videos - the the entire hour and a half program.
Here is the very sad answer as to why those videos disappeared:
Estimados amigos y amigas,
Como saben, en Aporrea hicimos un esfuerzo enorme para montar en Youtube los videos de todo lo que iba ocurriendo en Venezuela durante el fin de la concesión del canal RCTV, así como las protestas estudiantiles y todos los sucesos posteriores.
Sin embargo, esta mañana mi cuenta de Youtube "Lbracci" fue eliminada, luego de que el canal español ANTENA 3 formulara un reclamo a YOUTUBE alegando que uno de los videos que subí supuestamente violaba sus derechos de autor. El video que subí concretamente es el de Mario Silva, conductor de La Hojilla, mostrando un extracto bastante corto de la programación de ANTENA 3, en donde se entrevistaba a dos profesores que defendían al proceso de las acusaciones formuladas por NITU PEREZ OSUNA.
Por ese reclamo, Youtube decidió eliminar no sólo ese video, sino los otros 453 que tenía en mi cuenta y que incluían videos grabados durante los años 2006 y 2007.
Queremos destacar que entre el 16 de mayo y el 10 de junio de 2007 (un período de 25 días), subimos aproximadamente 250 videos que fueron vistos unas 1.400.000 veces por personas DE TODO EL MUNDO (un promedio de 56 mil vistas al día). A pesar de que Internet aún no es un medio que llegue a todos los sectores de la población venezolana, sin embargo miles de personas dentro y fuera de nuestro país veían día a día videos de la programación de VTV gracias a este esfuerzo que realizamos de gratis y de corazón.
A través de la cuenta recibimos decenas de mensajes: muchos eran personas curiosas en torno al proceso y al supuesto "cierre" de RCTV; leímos muchos agradecimientos de personas que viven en el exterior; mensajes en inglés pidiendo que subtituláramos o tradujéramos los videos pues querían saber más sobre "ese tal" Hugo Chávez; y, por supuesto, no podían faltar los insultos y amenazas provenientes de opositores radicales.
En fin, se perdieron de Youtube esos videos. Aún los tengo, e iré subiendo paulatinamente los mejores a otros sitios web de videos, pero nuevamente esto recalca LA NECESIDAD ENORME QUE TENEMOS DE SER SOBERANOS TECNOLÓGICAMENTE. DE TENER NUESTROS PROPIOS SISTEMAS, nuestros propios servicios para mostrar videos a nosotros mismos y al exterior, la necesidad imperiosa de traducir y contextualizar lo que pasa día a día en Venezuela... al inglés, portugués, italiano, francés, chino y a otros lenguajes.
Consideremos esto un contragolpe en esta guerra de cuarta generación, contragolpe que recibimos en represalia luego de haber ayudado a divulgar videos de VTV que los golpearonduramente por 25 días seguidos. Pero eso, lejos de amilanarnos, nos da fuerzas para que seamos más quienes podamos seguir en esta labor.
Ojalá el gobierno bolivariano haga caso a nuestros gritos y, ahora que CANTV está del lado del gobierno bolivariano, se puedan usar sus recursos para ofrecer a los venezolanos y al mundo aquello que, hasta ahora, sól
continued...
Ojalá el gobierno bolivariano haga caso a nuestros gritos y, ahora que CANTV está del lado del gobierno bolivariano, se puedan usar sus recursos para ofrecer a los venezolanos y al mundo aquello que, hasta ahora, sólo podemos obtener de Youtube y otros servicios extranjeros de forma caritativa.
Saludos
For those who don't read spanish what has happend is that the entire YouTube account of L. Bracci (who writes the Lubrio blog and has collaborated with Aporrea) was wiped out because some spanish network claimed one of his El Hojilla videos violated its copyrights. That means all the videos are gone - the ones of RCTV assisting the coup and on and on.
What fucking BS. They have consistently pulled videos put up by the Iraqi insurgents and others also. As the letter says, now that CANTV is government owned maybe it can set up its own video sharing service where this non-sense wouldn't occur.
Lets hope so.
OW, I'd say that this is just capitalists doing what capitalists do: looking after their own long-term interests.
Truncating, manipulating, obfuscating, distoring, and contorting information is their consistent modus operandi.
The last thing that corporate oligarchs want is free and open debate of ideas.
You Tube is just catering to the capitalists that write the checks.
No, it is not as simple as this---but it also IS as simple as this.
One side believes that people, given timely information on a consistant basis will make intelligent decisions that further human freedom; the other side belives that the masses are 'consumers', that they are to be maniplated and herded like sheep.
Ideas and information are dangerous to the people that have illegitimate power that cannot be justified in the eyes of the majority of people in the context of fair, rigorous debate.
Comandante P.--high fives bro.
The Slave has got you back--that's a fact. 
Did he work for the government too?
http://www.noticierodigital.com/...=asc&
start=1110
A & B, did who work for the government? Some of the students? Wow a high crime!!!!!! Students who aren't born rich like the opposition sifrinos and have to WORK there way through school - imagine that!!
Of course, I'm sure you CAN'T relate.
Weeell weell:
Students who are not rich, work to pay their studies. On temporary jobs, usually.
for the Rojo Rojito govt.? one works for the univerWhy did they not mention it, as a thing to be proud of, I mean...
But most of them do not work for government entities that, at least on paper, hire career civil servants, and professionals of their area. One works at the university, and that might just be kosher (the bolivarian university); the rest work for govt. foundations that look like parking places for political activists.
I would like to know more about the nature of their "work"...
"one works for the univerWhy did they not mention it, as a thing to be proud of, I mean..."
Why does it matter. The Bolivarian girls were pretty nice looking (in addition to being really smart and well spoken!) - should they have had to tell everyone if they have boyfriends?
"But most of them do not work for government entities that, at least on paper, hire career civil servants, and professionals of their area. "
Huh, how do you know that? Don't all places hire sectretaries, clerks, messengers, bookkeepers, office assistants, etc., etc.?
And lets suppose for a minute they had a job doing community or political organizing - why would that be a problem? Are you asserting that Hector Rodriguez doesn't really believe what he is saying and only says it as part of a job? He sure sounded convincing to me.
Lorenzo,
Read this link to know exactly what it is that the bolivarian students do for the government.
http://www.noticierodigital.com/...ic.php?
t=204004
Where does it say what they do? I only see where it says who they work for.
BTW, have to love this comment in your link:
"Trabaja para RADIO NACIONAL DE VENEZUELA. Los chavistas que aqui escriben pueden sentirse orgullosos de estos malandros rojos. Porque en el fondo, eso es lo que aspiran estos mediocres vivir de la teta del gobierno chavista sin hacer nada. "
Funny but many of the opposition supporters here bitch about NOT being able to get government jobs. I guess they want to be "mediocre" and "not have to do anything"
no, the opposition complain about being made to wear red shirts, being forced to attend political meetings, about being made to sign political statements, and about political loyalty being used as the SOLE criterion for hiring...
As for mediocre and not do anything, that's what SOME government posts seem to be for. No wonder "socialism" went down the drain. All jobs were government jobs. Only terror could have made it last where it lasted more than a decade.
"no, the opposition complain about being made to wear red shirts, being forced to attend political meetings, about being made to sign political statements, and about political loyalty being used as the SOLE criterion for hiring..."
That would be serious if it existed anywhere outside their imaginaton.
Cadenas dont' have anything to do with freedom of speech.
Right OW, tell that to the millions of Venezuelans who have no cable to watch and so either listen to 6 hours rantings of Chavez or turn the TV off all together. How would you feel if your President or Prime Minister felt the need to broadcast him/her doing everything from picking his nose to encouraging violence?
Great comments Lorenzo!
Admittedly, my Spanish is pretty bad, but I can understand a good portion of it.
Hey Slave Revolt how about spending some money and pay for some Spanish classes..I'm sure your hero Chavez will pay for you to better serve his highness if your too cheap to cough up the dough!!!!!
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