ow said:
"I don't know that that is true. More likely what this just a case of people from eastern Caracas thinking the law doesn't apply to them.
"Nothig new under the sun."
Let's see if indeed there is a power in Veneuzela that could or would stop grac's er I mean Leopold's re election. Let's see if there is law for the rich.
Funny thing, these sons of mama were fighting AGAINST this Constitution in 1999, then FOR it in 2007, and now... of course law is good when it's on one's side, otherwise it's "dictatorship".
Just listening to any of these middle class "heroes" talking about "the will of the people" is sickening. By the way, he gave the cold shoulder to his own party....
ahem, how can I believe the stuff about PDVSA, when there are actual crooks working inside that industry? its all politicized, very "rojo-rojito", tanks at the refinery painted in red... I would believe it if they didn't spend so much time sending workers to the hospital for all the explotions there have been. I dont like crooks, then again, chavistas have a talent for making dirty pasts even to a nun.
Franco,
Have you found the time to read Roque Dalton, particularly his poems "Primavera en Jevani," dedicated to Oswaldo Barreto (of Tal Cual)?
P.S.
Judging from Google, though, you're older than I thought so I imagine you probably have at least read Dalton.
I know he's an old guy and all but he needs to get more sun.
The second problem is that Mr. Lopez is a confirmed crook who was supposed to be banned from holding any governmental positions after his current term as Chacao mayor ended.Crooks in the government is nothing new in Venezuela. They have always been there and will continue to be.
Burnett,
Using a cliché in the title of your post and resorting to using swear words in the body. All just to throw baseless accusations at the mayor who keeps the most efficient part of Caracas (where Jorge Rodríguez and plenty of other Venezuelan government officials live). Where's your ingenuity? Are there simply too many holes in your tin cup to put together a decent post?
Good point.
I think the good thing Venezueleans could win from the Chávez years is better politicians afterwards. I don't compare Chávez with Hitler, but in Germany after the experience of the nazi time a lot of really great politicians emerged in my country. I have some doubts that the guy portrayed in this post is the great white hope for the future.
LM, you said,
"I don't compare Chávez with Hitler, but in Germany after the experience of the nazi time a lot of really great politicians emerged in my country"
How true this is.Often after a life threatening or deeply sorrowful struggle people are wiser and more fortified, if they do not corrupt along the way ; their energy is channeled to the good.This is true of people in general,as in the example of one of the Buddhist's metaphors-if I recall, something like:
growing up from heavy brackish waters
arising unstained and pure
to prepare loving homes for
beings of light to rest,
and sing the songs
of the universe.
"I have some doubts that the guy portrayed in this post is the great white hope for the future."
Judging by his actions he is not. Primero Justicia has turned out to be probably one of the more promising political parties, irrespective of whether or not you agree with their proposals. Yet Lopez split based on ?!?!?!? not wanting primaries I think???
Venezuela doesn't just need better politicians - it needs better political parties which are based on a shared program and are internally democratic. Just following individuals, whether it is Chavez or Rosales, is leading nowhere good.
"All just to throw baseless accusations "
They aren't baseless. To my knowledge he doesn't even contest what happened.
"Crooks in the government is nothing new in Venezuela. They have always been there and will continue to be."
That is not a very hopefull thought.
Do you think anything can be done about that?
pj is a great party in my opinion
the main problem is Venezuela has always been corruption...and socialist gov's are notoriously corrupt... what we had before wasn't bad, it just needed to be cleaned up and made less unfair,and with a good judiciary system...
Just curious: where do you think the far left contributors have gone? You know who I mean. It seems like they have run out of excuses to explain the mess that chavismo has created.
"It seems like they have run out of excuses to explain the mess that chavismo has created."
If you don't mind my asking, what mess?
The country sure is in a lot better shape than it was in 1998, isn't it? Or am I missing something?
BTW, I realize being better off than 1998 doesn't mean the country is on the path to development and solving its ongoing and very big problems. I realize that and THAT is my problem with what Chavez is doing.
Ow,
Comments on lack of democracy within political parties is dead on. Situation is pretty uniform throughout Latin America, though, with few, very few exceptions, to be fair to Venezuela.
I keep hearing favorable comments about PJ group, but have the impression from ur comments that they don't have primaries/internal elections either. Cierto o no?
Reading the linked article on Lopez, it seems pretty clear that he can't be mayor of Caracas. I should think that since he's major opponent of Chavez, he wouldn't have a chance. Still, I have the impression from ur posting and comments here that he Lopez can somehow overcome and/or ignore the ban and get away with it. Does this really mean that he'd have a good chance of getting the mayoral job?
"I don't know that that is true. More likely what this just a case of people from eastern Caracas thinking the law doesn't apply to them."
bravo ow.
you have summed up the last seven years of opposition thinking.
If you don't mind my asking, what mess?
No problem:
Insecurity
Food shortages
Corruption
PDVSA doing everything but what they are supposed to be doing
Inflation (and yes, inflation is a problem)
Political persecution
And all this after being blessed by billions of petrodollars.
Do you really think that Chavez would still be in power if the price of oil had stayed at, say, 30$/barrel?
"Comments on lack of democracy within political parties is dead on. Situation is pretty uniform throughout Latin America, though, with few, very few exceptions, to be fair to Venezuela."
Yup and that is a problem for all of Latin America.
"I keep hearing favorable comments about PJ group, but have the impression from ur comments that they don't have primaries/internal elections either. Cierto o no?"
The jury is still out on PJ. I think they have had some internal elections - not sure how many and how consistently but I think they have moved in that direction. Further, I have seen a pretty detailed plan for governance even though they have not yet made it public. I think they are moving by fits and starts in the right direction and if they keep it up they could be one of the better/the best political party in Venezuela.
One problem though is they have at times been vulnerable to being stampeded by the rest of the opposition into doing dumb and self-defeating things such as boycotting the 2005 legislative elections.
"Still, I have the impression from ur posting and comments here that he Lopez can somehow overcome and/or ignore the ban and get away with it. Does this really mean that he'd have a good chance of getting the mayoral job?"
It is possible that he could win the election. Maybe even probable. The current Chavista office holder sucks and of course the chavista base can't do anything about it because there are no internal elections to decide Chavista candidate either. So either people go along with the Chavez designated candidate or they vote for the opposition candidate - which is what they may do. And of course that will be Chavez's fault because he won't allow the base a role in selecting the candidates.
Further, Lopez does have a good reputation as an administrator (though of course it helps that he oversees one of the most affluent parts of Caracas).
Finally, this doing things that are blatantly illegal is an opposition hallmark. They like to do it because it puts the government in a bind. Either the government enforces the law and the opposition and their international supporters then cry "repression" or the government ignores the law with the obvious bad consequences that entails.
Kind of like the A11 march to Miraflores that was part of the coup - it was illegal but if the government stopped it the opposition would cry repression or the government could let it procede and let the seat of government come under attack.
Tried and true opposition tactics. Or at least by some in the opposition.
There's a much higher value target than internal primaries: proportional representation.
The big question about selecting the candidates for the pro-Chavez coalition was how many candidates from each of the pro-Chavez parties would be included. This was, necessarily, an anti-democratic process; if voters got to choose on a district-by-district basis, there probably would have been an MVR candidate selected in virtually every single district, because they were the strongest party. But that wouldn't have disenfranchised those voters who preferred other pro-Chavez parties (not to mention the anti-Chavez parties).
But if Venezuela used a PR system (say, the mixed-member system Germany uses), then the relative strengths of the pro-Chavez coalition in the legislature would have been the outcome of the voters' preferences, not party bosses' wrangling. Even if the party lists were selected by party bosses, at least voters would have more choices than just "pro-Chavez", "anti-Chavez", and those choices would actually be meaningful. (Today, pro- and anti- voters have a strong incentive not to split their vote, and therefore just vote for whoever the strongest pro- or anti- candidate in their district.)
I believe it would do far more for democracy within the Bolivarian Revolution to bring in PR than internal party democracy. Of course, they're orthogonal concepts, so no reason you can't do both.
OT:
Why does CNE refuse to deliver the referendum final results?
'cause they suck.
it is pretty outrageous.
Burnett:
I was looking for a more elaborate answer from your point of view. From mine, they don't release the results because something's rotten. What's your's, besides the suck theory?
I only BELIEVE they actually say they HAVE the results but WON'T release them because this is happening in Venezuela.
(sigh)
Another outrageous news: The former "People's" Ombudsman is going to the OAS as ambassador.
After Ivan Rincon and Jorge Rodriguez, no surprise at all. Dan, what is going to take for you gringos chavistas to acknowledge there is no separation of powers in Venezuela?
Uh, ah.
That is not a very hopefull thought.What is being done to stop it? Nothing. If anything it is becoming more obvious every day because people know that there is no enforcement of laws. Besides, what happens to whistleblowers within the Chavez government? They get labeled as traitors.
Do you think anything can be done about that?
Can anything be done? Of course. Enforce laws.
Apparently the PSUV is still in the process of wrangling out just how it will end up organized. This article at Venezuelanalysis
http://www.venezuelanalysis.com/...m/analysis/
3173
interviews some activist delegates, and it seems as if things remain very much up in the air. A quote:
"Question - But can the PSUV be a useful vehicle given the number of problems we have heard about?
Gil — There are many opportunist and right-wing tendencies that will continue to try to control the party. I think one of the things we have to do is organise ourselves to prevent the party from being kidnapped and ensure it remains a democratic party.
Generally, the democratic structures and debate have been maintained. Our proposal is to defend and deepen the structures for debate and participation. I think that the people are participating [in the PSUV] and we have to be present, working with them.
Gomez — There is a process that has opened up valuable democratic space, although with methodological vices, problems and dangers. But there is a discussion among the grassroots.
The fact that we are discussing the principles, program and statutes of the party — that we can put forward positions about the way in which we should elect our leadership and select candidates for elections — is very important."
I'm starting to think tracking what the PSUV does is more important than I previously believed. It may end up addressing some of the internal democracy problems. Or it may not. And the difference could be a decisive one for Venezuelan politics.
"I was looking for a more elaborate answer from your point of view. From mine, they don't release the results because something's rotten. What's your's, besides the suck theory?"
I would guess they are hiding something - this is too much time for simple incompetance. That of course is a huge problem and will do LOTS of damage to the CNE's credibility.
Now the thing is what are they hiding? I don't know. But I do know the opposition also knows the full results and they also refuse to release them. Further, from work done elsewhere (such as by CC readers) we know that the votes not counted are disproportionately concentrated in pro-Chavez areas. So it is actually in the realm of possibility that the SI actually won but the margin was so close that Chavez didn't want it and threw the election to the NO. Completely unethical and illegal but that may have happened.
It is definitely sleezy stuff whatever it is. And so bizarrely sleazy that the opposition leadership has decided to go along with it. Beyond that your guess is as good as mine.
"What is being done to stop it? Nothing."
That is not true. There is SOME enforcement and punishment, just as there always was, but it is not enough.
The laws regarding white collar crime need to become much more severe and be enforced. People that steal government money need good long jail sentances.
Futher, there have to be good controls in place to protect state resources. You can't just have things going around without proper accounting as happens now. By this I mean they need to make changes along the lines of the food distribution system that was proposed on this blog a few weeks back.
the biggest problem that has been created in Venezuela, and one that may be long lasting is the hatred and division that now exist among a people who did not have that before.
There is nothing worse for a country than this...there is no amount of money that can pay the price of repairing a ruined society.
Only people who don't care about people would talk about oil money, instead of how to repair the fundamental psychological damage that has been done to the country
Ow,
Thanks for the responses to my questions. Your comments on Lopez's chances for winning the mayoral post for Caracas and particularly, the possibility of little or no effective response (if I understand your comments ) by Chavez y cia to the prospect of an Alcalde Lopez.
On this latter point, I must say I'm surprised, o sea, I have (had) the impression that Chavez and his supporters are extremely powerful and even if Lopez were to win the vote for the mayorship, Chavez y cia would make sure that Lopez would not take office. Now from your comments, ow, I'm beginning to think that the image of an immensely powerful Chavez who can do whatever he wants, does not hold....
Leading riots?
Or trying to keep the Guardia Nacional goons and armed, paramilitary irregulars from the govt's "fasci di combattimento" from killing more civilians in Chacao? That's what he did. The GN killed at least one protester in that opportunity.
How disingenuous, ow. THEY USED FIREARMS ON THE PROTESTERS. THEY USED ARMED GUNMEN ON MOTORBIKES.
The protest was about the "non-renewal" of concession and outright robbery of equipment of a TV station. That had complied to all the requisites for such a renewal 4 years before. No response was given. Automatic renewal was in order. Ironically enough, the Prez himself "decided" in his particularly coarse way of expression 5 months before said concession was to "expire".
Half-way decent job? The Alcaldia de Chacao is run way better than most first world municipalities. What of the other ones? What of Libertador?
Confirmed Crook? Conflict of interest issue. And they found one after hundreds of probes. I wonder what would they find if they probed the other, not-so-well run municipalities. "A los enemigos la ley", eh??
Continue confusing poor foreigners in trying to make them believe that Venezuela has rule of law of any sort in this moment.
So long... He will beat Barreto by landslide...
foreigners with opinions about a country they know little about are like George Bush's idea that there were weapons of mass destruction in Iraq.
those self haters out there who would do their own country in for a pittance a little attention and some self illusion, or for those who like to capitalize on other people's money / fame, need to take a good look at Karma....
nothing is for free
"Just curious: where do you think the far left contributors have gone? You know who I mean. It seems like they have run out of excuses to explain the mess that chavismo has created."
I'm lurking here, if you're referring to me. Glad to know the far-right idiots are still around and keeping it lively. They are abundant on the internet.
But I do know the opposition also knows the full results and they also refuse to release them.
So what? The constitution says CNE, not the opposition, MUST release these results. Trying to put this on the oppo's check is pathetic.
So it is actually in the realm of possibility that the SI actually won but the margin was so close that Chavez didn't want it and threw the election to the NO.
Yeah, right. That from the same man that was okay with congress elections with 80% abstention? Your maximum leader would have taken a 0.01% win anyday. You know it.
life is a circle, not a straight line pepito, parallel lines do meet after all...what century do you hail from ???these designations of left/right are artificial.What is real are the actual beliefs, seen without filters.
OW,
Grac asks an interesting question. Where have the far left contributors gone? Liek me?
I read this blog occasionally but don't contribute anymore because there's too much trash to wade through. from people like grac, kepler, firepig....mindless abuse and lies. your signal to noise ratio has gone way down because of your libertarian approach to free speech, you wind up inviting all these right wing nutjobs onto your blog, and you drive out all the serious Leftist commentators who want a serious debate about what kind of socialism Venezuela needs. i don't bother commenting anymore because it's too tiresome to have to read all the carping and whining from kepler, firepig, etc.
Let the Keplers and firepigs of the world get their own blog. if you want serious left-wing comment then you are going to have to cut down on how much garbage gets into the comment section. otherwise bad money drives out the good.
1.if you had something intelligent to say Hector, go ahead and say it
2. You say nothing because you have nothing to say
3. your blaming others for your deficiency is a typical " lefty strategy" to justify your own incompetence, and irresponsibility
4.your proclivity towards violence could hardly be mistaken for intelligent dialog
5.suggestion:
whenever you see firepig or Kepler,
just ignore the comment and go on.
then you might learn a little about taking personal responsibility
"So what? The constitution says CNE, not the opposition, MUST release these results. Trying to put this on the oppo's check is pathetic"
Understood, but they know the results. So why don't they give them?
"Yeah, right. That from the same man that was okay with congress elections with 80% abstention? "
Not exactly the same situation, was it?
"The protest was about the "non-renewal" of concession and outright robbery of equipment of a TV station. That had complied to all the requisites for such a renewal 4 years before. No response was given. Automatic renewal was in order. Ironically enough, the Prez himself "decided" in his particularly coarse way of expression 5 months before said concession was to "expire""
I think you are confused about the demonstration. These pictures come from much earlier than that - these were pre-RR riots.
As I recall they marched on a third world summit meeting without a permit to protest the "reparos". The march was neither legal nor peaceful. Its pretty disgraceful that a sitting mayor was at the front of it.
the biggest problem that has been created in Venezuela, and one that may be long lasting is the hatred and division that now exist among a people who did not have that before.
There is nothing worse for a country than this...there is no amount of money that can pay the price of repairing a ruined society.
firepig5 | 02.21.08 - 6:47 pm | #
Fpig
This is the first thing you have ever written that I can agree with.
But the difference is, I hold the opposition responsible for this new division among the people.
When you disrespect a peoples will, you create division.
The people elected Chavez and the opposition has done EVERYTHING in their power to undermine the will of the people ever since.
The Coup
The Oil Strike.
The Recall
All attacks on the will of the majority of Venezuelans.
The lack of division, that you long for, was when the poor “knew their place”
The divisions that exist now, is simply the elite, inability to come to terms, with the fact the poor now have a voice, and some say, in the country.
The truth is, all Venezuelans have a responsibility because if this were not true, then we all would not be responsible for ourselves, and we all are.
However what started the ball rolling was when Chavista's started their tirades about the oligarchs, and when they isolated the middle class, yet supported the oligarchs, and when Chavez based most of his rhetoric on hatred...this introduced a new kind of anger into the equation.....
As for opposition hatred, it is mostly a defensive one, however I do think that if the opposition were to speak their own personal truths without fear, then they would feel less division between themselves and the rest...but so far many do not speak or speak in fear, and when we fear , hate, albeit unconsciously.
Many of these fears however are based on real need to fear, but the opposition is every bit as responsible for having voted Chavez in, as the Chavista's are, and the price has to be paid for the decision that was made.
Terán - if you really believe what you wrote in your last post then you really are full of shit and understand nothing about Venezuela - at all!!
anonymous, I DO know Venezuela and I can tell you the amount of real Chavista's is a lot smaller than what foreigners think
in my own family there were many Chavistas in the beginning, now only one left...there are a few fake Chavistas who are afraid Chavez will find out their votes and then they will loose their gov jobs.
the days are counted,
OW - the truth of this whole Leopoldo "ex skin head and now neo nazi" López is just to make media noise and lay the ground for some sort of "scandal" later this year.
All this BS about him beating any other candidate is just brvado since he will not be able to stand. Jesus - his mother only managed to get Bs. 500,000,000 in 1991 to set up Priomero Justicia from PDVSA's PR and publicity budget and gibe it to her nazi son.
Not to worry. Since Chavez controls all the state powers and individual judges then we can expect mass jailings in the near future. Sigh....if only that could happen. Lucky for bastards like López that Chávez dos not control the state powers.
firepig5 - you could be right about the number of chavistas falling. At the same time this does NOT mean that they will vote for opposition candidates in the November regional elections. We'll just have to wait and see how much ground the opposition can gain this year.
BTW - what the fuck do you know about Venezuela when you live in Miami? Hehehehehe.....
I don't live in Miami ,and I just got back from Venezuela and Curacao, where I met with many people from Las Minas de Baruta( not on a Cuban tour), plus my family lives in Venezuela to report every day on the changes...not to mention the hundreds of friends...
there are few barrios in Caracas that i know nothing about...the only areas of Venezuela where I do not have grass roots connections continually are Amazonas, and Zulia, although I have lots of family in Zulia, they don't write or call.I have lived in Venezuela very well connected, for more years than many of you have lived on this Earth...so I feel quite justified in giving a knowledgeable opinion.
But of course the kinds of idiots that choose to look at propaganda statistics and rely on sources that have no real knowledge of Venezuela, will continue to do so I suppose, and will continue to waste their energies on false perceptions
Understood, but they know the results. So why don't they give them?
Quit it, Burnett. It's not the oppo's LEGAL duty to give the results, it's the CNE's. Anyway, if the oppo has them, so does Chavez. Why doesn't your side release them?
Not exactly the same situation, was it?
My point was that, for Chavez, there is no such thing as a bitter victory. He'll take anything.
Terán - if you really believe what you wrote in your last post then you really are full of shit and understand nothing about Venezuela - at all!!
Anonymous | 02.22.08 - 10:22 am | #
And of course YOU DO. At least I can say I'm venezuelan. Are you?
"All this BS about him beating any other candidate is just brvado since he will not be able to stand. Jesus - his mother only managed to get Bs. 500,000,000 in 1991 to set up Priomero Justicia from PDVSA's PR and publicity budget and gibe it to her nazi son."
Anonymous | 02.22.08 - 10:29 am | #
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I bet you my 2008 CLK550 Cabriolet Mercedes Benz against your Che Guevara T-shirt that he will beat any candidate Chavez throws at him.
"It's not the oppo's LEGAL duty to give the results, it's the CNE's. Anyway, if the oppo has them, so does Chavez. Why doesn't your side release them?"
'Cause they have something to hide.
Why doesn't the opposition release them?
'cause it's the CNE's duty to do so.
In which language should I put this so you can understand?
" 'cause it's the CNE's duty to do so.
In which language should I put this so you can understand?"
uh hu. So are you telling me that if the CNE gave the full results and said Chavez won, but the opposition had all the actas and saw that he really lost, they wouldn't release the results because it was the CNE's "duty" to give them, not theirs???
I am not making an equivelancy between the CNE and the opposition here - clearly the CNE's actions are FAR worse. Still, whatever the game is the opposition seems to be involved in it.
Terán - if opposition idiots like you are so desperate to see the "final results" then go to the TSJ and demandar al CNE. Easy enough and it would also stop you bitching on so much.In addition, if the opposition had won by a "landslide" as the media wants us all to believe then I am more than 100% cewrtain that the opposition of Sumate or some other apatridas would have realeased the results in their totality.
BTW - your discourse sounds suspisciously like the bloggers on CC. That is incurably burgés. Is that really you Quico??
grac - "he will beat any candidate Chavez throws at him."
No, grac - what you really mean is any candidate elected by the grassroots.
Anyway it's all BS since López, as the crook he is, will not be allowed to stand for any public post.
Hey SFB, last time you came here I asked you a question and you kinda dodged it. You called people "apatrida" for going against their own country. Are you an apatrida as well?
Come on spinmaster.
Burnett, if you wanna "win" this argument by having the last word, then so be it. Your spinning on this is so idiotic and stupid that downgrades Steven Hunt and Moy-boy as toddlers.
The fact of the matter remains: the electoral institution, CNE, MUST release the complete results. If they fail to do this, you cannot blame the opposition, even if they should -not must- release whatever they have.
If you can't understand this, I assume you have no problem on Sumate carrying the next election.
BTW - your discourse sounds suspisciously like the bloggers on CC. That is incurably burgés. Is that really you Quico??
Anonymous | 02.22.08 - 11:06 am
No, I'm not Francisco. Please answer the question: are you venezuelan?
I am neither seeking the last word nor even disputing your point that the CNE conduct is reprehensible.
I'm just asking a natural question.
Is it just me or does this sound very bizarre:
http://www.foxbusiness.com/
marke..._487075_17.html
Why are they paying so much and are there really no Venezuelan companies that could do this???
"don't live in Miami ,and I just got back from Venezuela and Curacao, where I met with many people from Las Minas de Baruta( not on a Cuban tour), "
firepig5
The fact that people from Las Minas de Baruta are on vacation in Curacao says a lot to me about the state of peoples financial affairs now. I say pretty good....
Is it just me or does this sound very bizarre:
http://www.foxbusiness.com/ marke..._487075_17.html
Why are they paying so much and are there really no Venezuelan companies that could do this???
ow | Homepage | 02.22.08 - 12:19 pm | #
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Yeah, a co-op should take on this, right? Are you really looking for an answer or was that your way of saying: "grac, once again you have been proven right."
However what started the ball rolling was when Chavista's started their tirades about the oligarchs, and when they isolated the middle class, yet supported the oligarchs, and when Chavez based most of his rhetoric on hatred...this introduced a new kind of anger into the equation.....
firepig5 | 02.22.08 - 10:09 am | #
====
Come on, rhetoric is just that rhetoric. Coming from the president, it has more weight, but it is still rhetoric.
But, when you resort to getting your way at the point of a gun, as with the Coup.
Or by crippling the economy, as with the Oil strike.
You raise the stakes and the divide.
It is clearly the opposition that you support, that drove the divide to the utter depths it has reached.
"Yeah, a co-op should take on this, right? "
No, there are probably a number of private Venezuelan companies that could do this. The one that build the new viaduct comes to mind.
The idea should be to build up local industry and give them the first shot on everything if possible.
Why are they paying so much and are there really no Venezuelan companies that could do this???
Of course there are. But perhaps they don't wear the right color...
sadly that is quite possibly true.
and that is total BS on the governments part. Venezuela needs to build up its own industry and only use foriegn contractors when there is absolutely no Venezuelan one that could do the work AND Venezuela gets some technology transfer out of it so it can develop more capabilities.
Ron, you obviously know little about Venezuela,you said:
"But, when you resort to getting your way at the point of a gun, as with the Coup."
Chavez himself was a coup monger ...
what are you talking about ???
I will never forget when he and his friends took over the TV station,I almost had a heart attack when I saw those thugs in TV WITH GUNS :
eduardo, the people from Minas were in Minas,learn to read.. the people in Curacao were from Curacao...
Ron, just so you know who Chavez is :
A career military officer, Chávez founded the left-wing Fifth Republic Movement after orchestrating a failed 1992 coup d'état against former President Carlos Andrés Pérez. Chávez was elected President in 1998 with a campaign centering on promises of aiding Venezuela's poor majority, and was reelected in 2000 and in 2006.
now perhaps you can see just how unifying and forgiving the opposition was.
Chavez started the whole mess with violence and hatred, and he continued.
grac, maybe the far left are lurking...they don't have the
courage to stand up and be counted, even if they are wrong....
either it is fear, or it is a pouty temperament, that is upset and offended when people don't echo what they think.
Anyway...
Excuse me, so it was the pre-RR protest and the summit?
Did you explain to your fellows how the signatures were taken on paper money in front of chavismo and opposition witnesses, with the military nearby, with fingerprints?
Did you explain to them that ALL! I REPEAT ALL these signatures were taken by chavismo as the starting point of the Tascon-Maisanta list?
Did you explain to them that more than a million and a half of those signatures were not accepted because of criteria that DID NOT EXIST before the signature-taking event, and DID NOT EXIST until the CNE invented them? Planillas planas! indeed...
Was neither legal nor peaceful?
WE were only to give a document to the presidents.
I was there... fortunately, my mom did feel a bit tired, and we quit just before Plaza Venezuela. Yes, a senior citizen.
The GN showered that march with tear gas bombs before it even reached the end of the bridge in the "elevado"... Some eloquent images it produced too. From that march we have the footage where a GN shoots a protester who did not want to be grabbed, right in the knee with a shotgun. Plastic pellets I hope, but point blank range too. The Elinor Montes being dragged down image.
I have a new definition of this "international" far left: Sorry fools, trying to justify repression of the likes of that in the Genova G-8 summit. Because you like Chavez and Fidel. How quaint... how morally bankrupt. No wonder you eventually get pasted. Have you asked Chomsky about Cambodia lately?
firepig
I know all about that.
Your choice was not to vote for him and I understand anyone that made that choice.
But the majority of Venezuelans did, and they also knew about the Chavez coup.
So your argument is invalid.
ow,
have you seen the new PDVSA reports...(go to Informes Financieros on their website)?
they seem more complete than before.
as for LL, I never like him much, but he does a decent job in Chacao. That being said that case against him seemed - even though he did do something wrong - to be politically motivated. The offense was minor (not to much money and a long time ago) yet it is almost the only successful corruption case launched by the comatose Comptroller in 8 years - and it just happened to be against a successful opposition mayor (one of the few popular non-Chavista politicans). Conincidence? Maybe, but it looks suspicious to me. I mean how many politicans do you think you can catch in Venezuela for doing worse than LL.
why is it invalid ??? all I said was that when you accuse the opposition of a coup your argument for division doesn't hold because Chavez did the same thing, regardless of the outcome.....you need to hone up on logic man.Even if there was a majority, it caused a serious rift between people who saw that act as a criminal act, and were totally against and horrified at those who did not see it that way.....
I was there the first 4 or 5 years of Chavez and saw that in the beginning his election was valid...but 2 years later my investigations told me about half repented, and it has been a downhill trend since.
When Chavez saw himself loosing popularity he began to fudge things which he continues to do big time even though the vast majority now hate him...he has no integrity
but the other funny thing is Ron is that he has the power..he is president...and yet:
HE HAS NOT BEEN ABLE TO DO ANYTHING TO UNIFY THE COUNTRY AND MAKE IT WORK
Tor, yes I saw those reports. Browsed but haven't read them. They are fully detailed and now include all years. The first half of 2007 numbers are out and soon the full year numbers will be out. Another good thing is they are finally publishing the reports in both spanish and english instead of just english.
Very good work on their part. It definitely can't be said the company is lacking transparency.
The case against LL was fair. It actually was a good chunk of money (remember those are 1997 or 98 Bolivares, not 2007 bolivares!) and it was pretty blatant. He punishment was quite mild - no jail just being barred from holding government positions. Sounds very fair to me - argueably too fair.
His mother probably should have been punished more severly, not sure what happened to her.
BTW, its not the only case. Why do you think poor MiriPili Hernandez has been reduced to being a mere journalist these days?
But there should be alot more. Problem is whenever you bring a case against anyone they cry repression - note the former governor of Yaracuy Lapi.
LL Mother:
"Both were sanctioned with a prohibition of holding public jobs for three years. López will start this sanction as soon as his term as mayor ends."
...
"But there should be alot more. Problem is whenever you bring a case against anyone they cry repression"
I meant that there seem to be few prosecutions against the people working for the government. I have little doubt that the oil boom (as well as things like Cadivi) are inducing corruption...speculation no doubt. Moreover, there have been several suspicious cases reported that have not been fully investigated (maletagate, use of government funds for campaigning, missing drilling rigs etc.). Despite all this the Comptroller was appointed to a new term. Do you think he deserved that given the investigative work in his first term?
"Sounds very fair to me - argueably too fair."
I'm not familiar with the details of the case. It only seems to me that the comptroller is pursuing small fish (and politically convenient ones at that) while turning a blind eye to his real job - investigating the government.
As for PDVSA and transparency, the last reports seem much better. Previously they offered almost no information (3 pages and no details), but this seems better. I say 'seems' since I only browsed them. I am not sure how long this new link has been available.
...lastly, I need to re-read my posts before publishing given my horrible recent record on typos... 
No, bitches, Slave is in lurking mode.
It is nice to let the effete rightwing have their say for an elongated period of time. They keep OW honest and on his toes.
I have no compunction to argue mindless points with deluded rightwing spoiled brats that massage Uncle Sammie's balls in such an ignoble and obsequious fashion. Fashion....yes, in the end, with the fake, racist/classist rightwing, they all die on the alter of fashion and conspicuous, perverse consumption.
Hector--no, arresting the play of discourse is exactly the wrong approach--the echo-chamber will resonate with the downfall of the Bolivarian project, I am convinced of that.
Keep up the battle OW, Flanker, and by other compadres.
You are living in the times of slave revolt--check your weapons.
(Firepiggy, I'd still like to send you to the moon, strapped to a cheap Chinese rocket adorned with the Venezuelan tri-color 
)
"No, bitches, Slave is in lurking mode."
Same here you damn contras. I've been extremely busy with life outside of this blog. But I do drop in to read what OW has to say here and there.
Grac it looks like you've been spending to much time here. Pay attention to your stock's they aren't doing to well.
The old dude, in the second photo with the hankerchief over his face holding up two rocks.
He has Slave's approval---even if he is deluded to align with the escualidos in a moment of media-driven, delusional, empire ebetting, psuedo-rebellion. (I imagin that he has firepiggy in his sites )
like clockwork grac, it was easy to snap my fingers and viola: they come back as sordid as ever and with nothing to say but the same old insults
EVO MORALES AT BROWN UNIVERSITY
Tuesday, February 26, 2008
4 pm • Salomon Center for Teaching • Room 101
The College Green • Brown University
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From the Andes: New Visions,
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Evo
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slave and aliva,
nice to hear from you. the pitiful squeals of the contra piglets are music to my hears. they remind us all of why we prefer love and work over hatred and sloth.
contra crybabies:
http://axisoflogic.com/artman/
pu...cle_26107.shtml
real news:
http://venezuelanotes.blogspot.c...y-
councils.html
http://venezuelanotes.blogspot.c...h-care-
and.html
Lopez might be a crook but as you claim. He transferred some funds in a way that might be open to discussion but they did not make it to his pocket. It might be fair to point that out.
It is interesting to see your fixation on Lopez. Interesting.
Give us a break. Barreto is AT LEAST equally violent and equally a crook than Lopez. For people in Caracas it is a no brainer : if I am going to have a crook I want one who at least picks up the garbage on time. All polls agree on that one, Barreto will be trashed by Lopez. That is, if either one runs.
Hector
I agree with you, if those creeps of Daniel and Quico can get away with "moderation" there is no reason why our friend OW could not do the same. Fascists on one side, progressives on the other and all will be served well.
Berenice, the responsible thing for you to do is not read anything I write instead of waiting for someone else to censor me...Are you a child or an adult?
I personally have no problem reading other people's opinions no matter how violently I oppose the opinions-I do not let it ruffle my day, nor in any way hurt me.
I am also aware that if the moment should come where it does, I will just not read the paragraphs of those whose comments offend me.
Ideas are ideas.People are people..If some of you think that people's ideas that are different form yours means that the people are bad, then you need to grow up and get more experience in life.This is an idea that will destroy your world
I am very much opposed to more than half of OW'S ideas, and especially the one he has about the Farc that to me is bordering on hideous, but I have never once gotten the impression that he is a bad guy......not that there are not bad guys out there, but on a blog this is hard to tell.
Better for you to mature than to look for others to protect you.
Commandante P!
The force is with you bro!
B.--no, there are many conflicting, contradictory beliefs, it does not serve discussion well to censor points of view.
I adamantly respect OW's record on this issue. His engaging people that disagree with him makes this blog a worthwhile read--especially when Slave reverts to lurking mode.
Heinz "Captain Jack" Dieterich has published a book about socialism of the 21st century in german.
Here is a link to amazon. http://tinyurl.com/yp3dk9
I've ordered a copy.
Co-author Hans Modrow, who will be a new adviser of Raúl Castro according to an austrian news source.
This somehow indicated that my theory that Captain Jack is sailing rumbo a the Greater Antilles and we will se him reappear in Havana soon, isn't that far-fetched.
I don't have high expectations about the book. Its cheap, anyway. One never knows. Well, if the book is good, I may talk like slave soon.
oops wrong thread.
Was Leopoldo EVER sentenced by a Court of Law?
I published this on Caracas Chronicles
"BUT, Quico, if there is a principle consecrated in ALL Constitutions is that of the rule of law.
Law is dealt inside courts and in no other place. Even the contestation to an administrative act must pass through a court of law. That not all the people affected go to court to protest fines, confiscations or decrees does not mean that they cannot, but that it is a lengthy and costly process.
Leopoldo Lopez' issue is not a trafic ticket. It is the
jeopardy of fundamental rights we are talking here: Political and representation rights are of the same importance as liberty of body, private property, right to free expresion, assembly, association and travel.
He is right. No sentence, no crime, no time. No two ways about it. If chavismo wants to inhabilitate him, well it will because there is no rule of law in Venezuela. But not because they have anything."
No, not everything goes through courts all over the world. All sorts of administrative laws are decided by other entities.
Why weren't you as upset when this happened to Miripili? Or RR?
Well, ow: Come out of the Middle Ages and be welcome to the modern world, rule of law and all.
Administrative acts are not final. The guys occupying these positions are not Vavasours and their judgment in every case can be protested in a court. From Traffic Cop to President.
The jeopardy of your fundamental rights GOES THROUGH COURT! Nowhere else.
Read for example your own Constitution on what it says about trial by a jury of peers. You will find no difference in principle in other Constitutions.
These are fundamental rights, not privileges given by King Hugo through the graces of the CNE or the Comptroller.
I am upset as always when some bureaucrat takes attributions that he cannot take.
May I feel sorrier for Lopez because he is a believer in rule of law and Mari Pili IS NOT?
Blame the grossly inoperant and biased bureaucrat, Russian, and I call him grossly inoperant because he had time enough to start and finish a trial against Lopez, which he did not.
Blame him for making the Bolibanana Republic look just like that.
Lorenzo:
You are just saying things that you don't know about. In hte U.S. you only get a jury if you are faced with IMPRISONMENT of six months or more. If you are getting fined by a government agency or banned from employment by them there is generally no court involvement at all. Unless the person so affected wants to appeal it to a court.
Lopez could do that - so why doesn't he. If the case was improperly decided then why doesn't he take that issue to court - instead of just deciding to ignore the decision?
In order, my answers, if you will.
"No difference in principle" I mean: It's not the "jury" part. It's the "court" part. A court is needed, with defense and accusation lawyers to sentence you to lose fundamental rights.
I know perfectly well that you can be sentenced by a judge. But you have a right to defense whenever sentenced. The Comptroller is no Judge. His duty is to pass anything he finds to state attorneys. Not pass judgement.
Employment is not a fundamental right, except maybe in state-controlled or corporativist state economies where you cannot find where to work without the buona pro of the state.
Getting fined by a govt. agency does not involve the loss of fundamental rights. And there is a right to appeal.
And Lopez is right to ignore the "decision"
Cause there is no decision to speak of... Whatever Russian says carries no weight with the law.
And certainly no moral authority, if issued by the invisible comptroller. A gray nullity and a zero to the left who has not passed a single case of government corruption in a country where some govt. officials flaunt riches beyond reckoning.
"Employment is not a fundamental right, except maybe in state-controlled or corporativist state economies where you cannot find where to work without the buona pro of the state. "
Ok, but that is what is at stake here. Lopez hasn't lost his freedom, he is not in jail, etc. He just can't work for the government for three years (after his current term is up).
Sounds reasonable to me, actually a very mild punishment. And apparently under Venezuelan law those decisions are devolved to the Comptroller.
No, Lopez is barred from public election charges, which is a right on a par with voting. Know voting? Which some uninformed souls maintain is the only right in democracy. That one!
It's not the mildness or reasonableness. It's the fact that there should be a court for that. The comptroller, if I recall, audits the tenures of public officials, elected or not.
Another nail in the coffin: Lopez was not a public official when all this happened. The comptroller is way out here.
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