Did you know that the Muslims believe in Jesus also, that same Jesus who taught that you should not harm children.
I know Christians who believe that women and children who die in Iraq because of our invasion are just collateral damage and don't seem to object that there might be more collateral damage due to our presence there. Isn't the person who started Blackwater a born again Christian? Now there's a fine example of Christianity, an organization who believes its ok to just shoot people, well, maybe not, those people got fired didn't they?
I haven't read all of the Koran, and it is a difficult book to read, a Muslim friend of mine tells me that you have to read the Arabic version to appreciate it, it looses something in translation. But there is a verse I remember.
Surah 2:62 "Those who believe (in the Qur'an), and those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Christians and the Sabians, and who believe in Allah and the Last Day, and work righteousness, shall have their reward with their Lord: on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve."
When they can say such kind things about other religions in their own scriptures, that says a lot, I find that very impressive.
I find it really hard to believe that this is the same religion that some believe thinks killing women and children is ok, like you know, how Blackwater does.
Oh I keep forgetting, they fired them guys didn't they.
Acts 4:12 ~
"Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name [Jesus Christ] under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved."
Roger, nice logical fallacy you've committed here...beautiful straw man you've set up and proceeded to knock down, hurray for you.
Muslims believe in Jesus Christ? Nice, even the demons believe and tremble. Matthew 8:29 ~ "And behold they cried out, saying: What have we to do with thee, Jesus Son of God? art thou come hither to torment us before the time?"
The passage you quote from the Quran demonstrates that there is no connection whatsoever between the Christian Scriptures and Islam...Christianity does not believe that there is more than one path by which to be saved and inherent eternal life.
If our legislators wanted to read the Quran; they have their own library where they can check it out. I am suspicious of the agenda with which this book was given to them for. When Mormons or Jehovah witnesses give me their religious books and tracts, you know what I do with them? I throw them in the trash. Muslims who do this run the same risk of THEIR literature being treated the same way. I thought they respected it more than that. But it seems they sure play fast and lose with it...
I understand Christianity and I'm not one. Christianity teaches that if you believe Jesus died for your sins than you are saved even if you ignore all his teachings as so many Christians do and I won't be no part of that.
Yes, Muslims do believe in Jesus and they do believe that Jesus will return, and they tremble about it.
When Jesus separates the goats from the sheep, I'm afraid a lot of Christians are going to find themselves on the wrong side and they should tremble.
You don't need to quote scriptures to me, because unlike most Christians, I've actually read the bible.
I understand Christianity and I'm not one. Christianity teaches that if you believe Jesus died for your sins than you are saved even if you ignore all his teachings as so many Christians do and I won't be no part of that.
Yes, Muslims do believe in Jesus and they do believe that Jesus will return, and they (don't) tremble about it.
When Jesus separates the goats from the sheep, I'm afraid a lot of Christians are going to find themselves on the wrong side and they should tremble.
You don't need to quote scriptures to me, because unlike most Christians, I've actually read the bible.
"I find it really hard to believe that this is the same religion that some believe thinks killing women and children is ok, like you know, how Blackwater does."
Did you actually just make that comment?!!! Do you watch the news, Do you read newspapers or magazines, do you read blogs or listen to the radio?
It doesn't take too much intelligence to figure out, even in a society where the news is controlled by liberals such as yourself, that Islam is a violent religion.
Suicide bombings, beheadings, the slaughter of women by stoning or firing squad, hijackings...
What the hell are you talking about?!!!
But you're comparing apples to oranges here, retard.
These acts of violence are being carried out IN THE NAME of Islam. IF, and I did say IF, Blackwater was formed by a "born again Christian" their purpose is to provide security for organizations/individuals in dangerous areas, NOT TO COMMIT VIOLENCE IN THE NAME OF CHRISTIANITY!
Your entire argument is flawed and pointless...
Besides that, NO you don't "understand Christianity," and you show it with your ignorant comments. Also, you don't understand Islam. Yes, Muslims believe in Jesus, BUT they believe Jesus was a prophet and is lesser than Muhammed. Christians believe that Jesus (try and catch this) is the SON of God, and IS IN FACT GOD. Jesus is not a prophet. He IS GOD.
Apart from that, I have never met a Christian who claimed to be perfect. That is the goal, but thank God that is HIS mercy, he forgives us when we fail. Following Christ doesn't make you perfect. You are still human, and you still are flawed, BUT if you follow Christ and believe HE is who HE says HE is, then you no longer face eternal condemnation for those sins.
That is what a Christian believes...
[quote]"Did you actually just make that comment?!!! Do you watch the news, Do you read newspapers or magazines, do you read blogs or listen to the radio?
It doesn't take too much intelligence to figure out, even in a society where the news is controlled by liberals such as yourself, that Islam is a violent religion."[/quote]
You tell me that I should trust the media and then you tell me it is untrustworthy. You go tell Murdock that he is a liberal, and those like him who do own the media, I wonder what sort of response you will get?
Catholics, Protestants, Jews and Muslim have all committed atrocities and we could spend volumes comparing notes judging which has been the worse of criminals, but I have better things to do. Basically fanaticism sucks. Fanaticism is not the Catholic, Protestant, Jew or Muslim religion, it's a product of insecurity and a lack of education that some of us unfortunately have to suffer with.
When someone is offered a gift and they graciously turn it town, they are in their right to do so, but when they further add that this gift contributes to the murder and rape of innocent women and children, they are then contributing to the spread of disinformation, an act that those who stand for truth should not tolerate.
I have several Muslim friends and I assure you that their religion does not teach them to rape and murder innocent women and children and the actions of a Christian and Jewish nation might cause one to ask, "is the pot calling the kettle black?"
No, No, No, genius, I did not tell you to trust the media and then assert that it is untrustworthy.
I said EVEN BY ACCUMULATING INFORMATION VIA A MASS MEDIA THAT INTENTIONALLY ATTEMPTS TO DISTORT THE TRUTH, A PERSON OF MINIMAL INTELLIGENCE COULD INFER THAT ISLAM IS A VIOLENT RELIGION.
I.E., Islam is so violent that even the unbelievably liberal media, despite its best efforts, cannot hide all of it.
Second of all, you are now abandoning your original argument (comparing Islam's factual, documented and numerous instances of violence to your ignorant understanding of the principles of Christianity) in favor of comparing Islam's factual, documented and numerous instances of violence to alleged instances of violence perpetrated by Christianity AND Judaism.
Your argument just doesn't hold water. The very fact that you and your lib friends have to reach back to the Christian Crusades in order to demonstrate "violent Christianity" shows how desparate you are.
I find it unbelievably naive for you and your ilk to even attempt to compare the DAILY, WORLDWIDE acts of violence committed by Islamists in the NAME OF THEIR FAITH to Christianity.
Rodger you don't have a clue what Christianity is about and if you read the bible you either didn't understand it or you didn't read it well, or enough....> Because this one sentence is either a falsehood or a sign you didn't read the whole bible. The bible ALSO says that "Faith without works is dead", and "Those who die in their sins are thrown into the abyss", as well as, "Ye shall know them by their fruits." I suggest you go back and re-read that bible and that you look up what you are about to say, very carefully in the bible before you go around spreading falsehoods. Especially about Christ.
Funny, it wouldn't let me put the sentence in about what rodger said about christians are allowed to sin...IT'S A LIE!!! SATAN BOY.
P.S. Muslims only acknowledge Jesus as a prophet. NOT as GOD. Better study your muslim literature as well.
Jesus taught to do unto others as you would do unto yourself. Just like that law which is love God with everything you got. it isn't to hard to figure out why those laws are the same.
When someone calls themselves a born again Christian and hires people to indiscriminately kill people and nobody questions this person's claim to Christianity then you will never hear me call myself a Christian. But if it suits you than wear it.
Blessed are the peacemakers for they shall be called children of God, unfortunately that does not apply to very many Christians who voted a crazed war monger into office who is pleased to be the war president.
Calling me Satan Boy or any other name isn't going to score you any points when we stand before Christ on the judgment day.
Satan is a liar and the father of lies. I speak nothing but the truth. Those who lie are his children. Just because someone calls themselves a christian doesn't mean they ARE one. You would swallow any lie wouldn't you? A christian WOULD NOT commit such sins and expect to get into heaven. THAT IS the definition of a Christian. Don't you dare tar the real ones with the devil's paintbrush. I think you are DELIBERATELY manipulating the scriptures to support your lies and your masters who pay you to do so. Just remember, the devil won't save you in the end. And you may well end up reaping what you sow right here on earth. And that's all I've got to say to you. Any more and it would be arguing with the devil, which is strickly forbidden as I'm sure you well know.
You say only the good Christians are the true Christians, well maybe only the good Muslims are the true Muslims.
By the way, Jesus never said that you had to believe he was God inorder to get into heaven, he only said follow me.
I'm pretty confident when I stand before my Lord that I will not be found false and if you can say the same than I guess we'll have to wait and see won't we.
"By the way, Jesus never said that you had to believe he was God inorder to get into heaven, he only said follow me."
REALLY?!!!
The Jews therefore said to Him, "You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?" Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am." (John 8:57-59)
"I and the Father are one." (John 10:30)
And Jesus cried out and said, "He who believes in Me does not believe in Me, but in Him who sent Me. And he who beholds Me beholds the One who sent Me. I have come as light into the world, that everyone who believes in Me may not remain in darkness." (John 12:44-46)
And so when He had washed their feet, and taken His garments, and reclined at the table again, He said to them, "Do you know what I have done to you? You call Me Teacher and Lord; and you are right, for I am. (John 13:12-14)
Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father, but through Me. If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also; from now on you know Him, and have seen Him." Philip said to Him, "Lord, show us the Father, and it is enough for us." Jesus said to him, "Have I been so long with you, and yet you have not come to know Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; how do you say, 'Show us the Father'?" (John 14:6-9)
Oh, but, "You don't need to quote scriptures to me, because unlike most Christians, I've actually read the bible."
Of course you have...
You haven't proven your point, you're making assumptions that Jesus meant something that he didn't say and that doesn't fly, but keep trying.
(by the way it was a common tradition back than to call your leaders and teachers Lord) But he never claimed to be God and that is why the pharisees could not find anything to prosecute him for and so they hung an innocent man. Jesus taught us that God is our father and that he is his son. Jesus OFTEN referred to himself as the son of man, how than can he be God.
If the Muslims believe in Jesus and follow his teachings are they less then the Christians who claim to believe in Jesus and ignore his words?
You can believe what you like, that's one great thing about America. But let me see if I understand this. Because Muslims do not believe Jesus is God that makes it ok for us to kill them and at the same time call them murderers?
He denies the Trinity. I would suggest you read Cur Des Homo by Anselm of Canterbury for the greatest defense of why the God-man was necessary.
Would you stop it already with the tu quoque fallacy and the straw men? Lets say you're absolutely 100% correct...Christians ignore the teachings of Jesus and we indiscriminately murder Muslims...entirely irrelevant to the question, and the fact that you keep beating this horse proves you don't understand basic logic.
Either deal with the question or concede defeat. Question: Oklahomans will not tolerate or support Islam because of it approves of killing innocent women and children in the name of ideology.
All you've managed to do so far is commit the fallacy of tu quoque, bravo.
Islam does not approve of the killing of innocent women and children because Jesus would not approve of it.
Won't Mohammed be so bitterly disappointed when he finds out....
Never met the man myself. Not a good thing to judge someone who isn't here to defend themself. Some might say he was defending himself and his people and others will call him a warmonger. One thing is certain, there sure was a lot of killing going on back then and Christians were not exactly innocent.
But you know what, if I believed in Mohammed I would be a Muslim now wouldn't I.
But did you know that there is even a story of Jesus and Mother Mary in the Koran? Yes, they believe in Jesus, and Jesus believed in peace and we who claim to believe in Jesus should as well.
Really? What did Mohammed say about Jesus?
The Muslem is the one religion I have studied the least. I've read what the Christians teach and they make not mention of the Muslims belief in Jesus and I've only read half of the Koran and there is a whole chapter about mother Mary and Jesus and according to the Koran, Jesus actually spoke when he was a baby but I can't remember the words off the top of my head.
A good Muslim friend of mine has confirmed to me that the Muslims believe that Jesus will return just like the Christians believe and you can find that here:
http://forum.khurram.ca
The Koran:
[5.72] Certainly they disbelieve who say: Surely Allah, He is the Messiah, son of Marium; and the Messiah said: O Children of Israel! serve Allah, my Lord and your Lord. Surely whoever associates (others) with Allah, then Allah has forbidden to him the garden, and his abode is the fire; and there shall be no helpers for the unjust.
[5.73] Certainly they disbelieve who say: Surely Allah is the third (person) of the three; and there is no god but the one God, and if they desist not from what they say, a painful chastisement shall befall those among them who disbelieve.
[5.74] Will they not then turn to Allah and ask His forgiveness? And Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.
[5.75] The Messiah, son of Marium is but an apostle; apostles before him have indeed passed away; and his mother was a truthful woman; they both used to eat food. See how We make the communications clear to them, then behold, how they are turned away.
I rest my case. That is clearly in contradiction to Scripture, and a denial of the Faith of Abraham (Romans 9), the Faith of Moses, and the Faith of David (Psalm 2 as just one example), and the Prophets. Therefore, if Muslims truly believed the "prophets" and Apostles, and their father Abraham, they would affirm:
"I believe in God, the Father Almighty, the Creator of heaven and earth, and in Jesus Christ, His only Son, our Lord:
Who was conceived of the Holy Spirit, born of the Virgin Mary, suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, died, and was buried.
He descended into hell.
The third day He arose again from the dead.
He ascended into heaven and sits at the right hand of God the Father Almighty, whence He shall come to judge the living and the dead."
One more thing: the Child of Promise was Isaac, not Ishmael. (Gen. 17:19-21; Romans 9:7-11) This is yet another clear distinction between the claims of Islam and Christianity. The Jews do not understand this, and they claim (in clear opposition to what Paul, Jew of Jews, said) that salvation is of the flesh: i.e. in that they are Children of Abraham they are saved. It is a different schism than Islam, but a schism and perversion of the Teachings of the Book nonetheless.
Thank you Adam for clearing that up, but I think we already knew, that Muslims do not believe that Jesus is God.
And you know what, I don't believe Jesus is God either.
But like my Muslim friends, I still believe in Jesus. If I believe in Jesus, why would I advocate violence when Jesus was the King of Peace who taught that peace makers will be called children of God.
The Jewish religion, Muslim Religion and Christian religion all have blood on their hands, but it wasn't because they were following Jesus who taught us to turn the other cheek. It isn't the fault of the religion, but the followers. I find this statement: "Most Oklahomans do not endorse the idea of killing innocent women and children in the name of ideology," to be incorrect for refusing a Koran.
The Catholic Church has murdered and tortured many who refuse to accept the trinity. So why should I believe that because the Muslims don't believe in the trinity that they "endorse the idea of killing innocent women and children in the name of ideology."
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