I am so sorry. I am so very sorry.
Good to have you guys back.
Mohammed, you are a true hero! You and your loved ones will remain in our thoughts and prayers.
I am so thankful that you and your household were not harmed physically in the latest insanity. I will continue to pray for your safety, and the safety of all the peaceloving peoples of Iraq. The neighborhood watch concept was very encouraging, as this what most communities must activate to ensure the safety of their life and property. The only shame is that there is no independent and honest police force to call upon, therefore mistakes will be undoubtably be made whenever potential criminals are suspected, yet better to defend the innocent at the lesser egregious cost of the few mis-identified, than the persecution and terrorism of the entire community.
Why didn't your Uncle's neighborhood act the same as your neighborhood? It seems that much of the problem is the apathy of his neighbors, and their willingness to not protect their neighbors enabled the terrorists to effectively ethnicly cleanse his neighborhood.
If you wont protect your immediate neighbors, you should expect the same.
Keep your chin up and stay alive. You are doing a service to your country. Iraq is no Somalia. Iraq is the cradle of civilization. We still believe in you.
I don't comment a lot, but I read your posts every day. Even as a writer, I have a hard time getting my imagination to comprehend how bad things are over there. Please know that you're all in my prayers.
Thank you for this post, Mohammed.
What a blessing you are for making the effort to keep us all posted.
We are well armed here at my home. Four guard dogs and four guns for two people. The day may come when I have to defend my home and I may loose my life but I'll take some of the a__ h____ to death's door with me.
Every day I pray for peace in the Middle East..with special prayers for Iraq and Jerusalem.
God bless you and keep you and yours safe.
I wish I could do more.
Your blog brings sad news close to home. I'm an American reporter and would like to write about you and other Iraqi bloggers. Can you tell if you feel the blogs are making a difference?
You can reach me at maria.garriga@gmail.com.
Warmly,
Maria
I'm very sorry to hear about your suffering. Please know that you are in our thoughts and prayers.
i wish every innocent Iraqi family had a bomb shelter, with an
ample supply of foods & medicines needed for at least a week
or two for such occasions.. *sigh*
God bless you all & take care..
==
I wonder who is giving these stupid orders to expel Sunna.
As a former US soldier that served over there I empathize with you entirely.
I liked what your neighborhood did. Standing up and uniting and fighting back. Keep your heads up and don't ever give up. I read your posts daily looking for a sign that my efforts won't be in vain.
I pray for all of you. Godspeed.
I hope things get better for you soon. If it's any consolation, the story about people being burned alive wasn't true. I hope that you stay safe.
I too am very sorry to read that.
No one of us can not even roughly imagine how that must be for you guys.
Thank you for giving us a small look inside. Our news keep on repeting...
Since the beginning of OIF I hoped so much your country would get the wealth and peace it deserves but it seams it's not planned to be like that.
It reminds me of the religious unrest in Europe long ago. Back then they did the same idiotic things. Katholics killing Protestants and vice versa and both being Christians.
History repeats itself. That fact makes me sad cause history was sad.
Iraq is becoming Somalia before our very eyes while the US can't touch Sadr's grand Medhi Army who is ethnically cleansing Iraq.
Sadr must die. A bullet is needed to the back of his head and he and all the criminal scum in Iraq need to die.
Allawi knew how to deal with dogs like Sadr.
dear brothers, please try to stay safe. your fame makes you a high priority target for terrorists!
Terrorists and militias started an open war; the battlefield is our city and the fuel is innocent civilians as always since those criminal groups find it easier to kill civilians than to confront each other (and rid us of their evil). The big problem is that the security forces are not strong enough to stop them, worse than that, some members of these forces let themselves become partners to the criminals.
will you believe mohammed, what you don t believe me?
We had no choice but to rely on ourselves to protect our homes and neighborhood insurgents and militias alike. In our mixed block the elders met to assign duties and make plans in case things go wrong. They decided that people should all exchange cell-phone numbers as the fastest means to communicate at times of action, it was also decided that if someone calls to report an attack on his home, everyone else must go up to the roof and start shooting at the direction of the assailants.
i know that many of you will consider this good news. IT IS NOT!
this is exactly how the militias started, who now do the killing in many places.
add a couiple of murders among one group, an attack on a mosque and some guys who have been expelled elsewhere and this "militia" will go on a rampage as well.
Some news were really bad though, my uncle called on Friday to tell me that he and his family of eight were being forced to leave their neighborhood.
My Sunni uncle, his Shia wife and their children were told to leave because the head of the household is Sunni. His voice was filled with pain as he talked to me, I asked him who made the threat and he said ten cars filled with armed men came to our street shooting their guns in the air and announcing through a loudspeaker that all Sunni people must leave within 24 hours, then they went to the mosque and murdered the preacher's son.
i have been posting a LOT about ethnic cleansing, since over a year.
i wonder wether people will start taking the subject more serious, now taht you told us about this very personal experience?!?
i hope your uncles family finds a safe place to saty at. being a refugee is a terrible experience.
As usual during times of crisis, people's morale takes a steep slide down and my friends who used to say they expected Iraq to stabilize within a maximum of 5 years are now talking about 10-15 years and some have reached total frustration and are comparing Iraq's future with Somalia's present.
i have massive doubts that the situation will improve a lot over the next 5 years. it would take a miracle to achieve this.
always remember, that the situation in the north hasn t escalated yet. the war between sunnis and Kurds will make the current situation seem like a minor disruption.
--------------------
NBC News on Monday branded the Iraq conflict a civil war -- a decision that put it at odds with the White House and that analysts said would increase public disillusionment with the U.S. troop presence there.
http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/...k/
N27469827.htm
and
CNN correspondent John Roberts, who recently returned from Iraq, says that U.S. television has been unable to convey the extent of the chaos that currently wracks that country. "The place is a mess. It's an absolute mess,"
http://www.contactmusic.com/news...%
20mess_1014725
the war cannot be won, if you don t accept the reality on the ground!
we need more troops NOW!!!
Perhaps it's too small to make a difference Mohammed, but please accept our expressions of concern and hope as some small comfort for you and yours.
God Bless Iraq and her people in this time of so much need.
Congratulations Mohammed.
You and your neighbors have taken the first step toward democracy and living as free people. It appears you are coming to the realization that being “free” comes with taking the responsibility of government.
By government, I refer to the small group you and the others in your neighborhood have organized for your mutual benefit and protection. Soon, you will join with other neighborhoods and the area that is safe for your families will expand.
In time, most people will figure it out that they, not some nebulous “government”, are responsible for the future of their country. True leaders will rise, criminals will be turned in or be dealt with within the community and the type of society the people want will become reality. Above all, it will be done with a feeling of ownership by the people in the way things run.
Chaos and corruption exist where the people believe the “government” should solve problems for them. Peace and fairness exist where people know that they are the government.
The main danger comes from the notorious Baàthist-Alqaida alliance supported by a category of Iraqis who think they alone have kingly blue blood in their veins and consequently have the right to rule while the others have nothing but to be ruled by them.Being in the minority,they will never accept a democratic Iraq.They will hinder the democratic process and will not compromise.The only effective means to deal eith them is Firmness and more Firmness.
the war cannot be won, if you don t accept the reality on the ground!
we need more troops NOW!!!
sod relies on CNN.
hahahahhahahahaha
m&o, how does it feel to have so many non-muslim (and probably christian) readers, say they are praying for you?? praying for you and your family's safety and the future of iraq?? i dont know if you have ever addressed that before. i have been reading your blog for a long while now and it just hit me after reading so many today, posting that they are/will be praying for you. i was also surprised to see sod say "we need more troops now!!!" i thought sod was/is in the "bring our troops home now!!!" camp. where is marine dad to comment on sod's comment. take care guys, and as a follower of christ, i will also pray for you and iraq.
Here's what I wrote on the same subject a few years back.
Wednesday, December 22, 2004
Iraq Democracy - How It Starts
"Sometimes a little bit of chaos can be a good thing"
Donald Rumsfield uttered this phrase while looting followed the fall of Baghdad. It was the policy statement that the mainstream media missed. Although they heard the words, their outrage that the Iraqi National Museum was not guarded left them with the impression that these remarks were insensitive and flippant.
What the media, liberals and a few interview-addicted conservatives missed was the outline of a plan for bringing democracy to Iraq. True democracy. Lasting democracy. Not just imposed order and the semblance of democracy.
As the elites are fond of saying, "you can't bring democracy from the barrel of a gun". Bush and Rumsfield know that no truer words have ever been spoken. You cannot replace a tyrannical all-powerful ruling government with a benevolent all-powerful ruling government and call it a democracy. The only way Iraq will achieve true democracy will be for the Iraqi people to band together to improve their situation.
People improve their situations at the moment they realize that someone else is not going to improve it for them. Our current troop levels in Iraq insure that the former regime will not regain control, but do not allow for a contingent of soldiers to patrol every street corner. Electricity outages, gasoline shortages, unemployment, kidnapping for profit and innocent civilian deaths in suicide bomb blasts provide that "little bit of chaos" to instill the outrage necessary bring forth the one Iraqi that will start the process of true democracy.
He won't be the hero type. Perhaps an engineer or dentist. But some chain of events in his life will bring him to the realization that, at least in his portion of Iraq, things have to change. He will declare that the neighborhood bordered by the store that his wife shops at, the school his child attends, the mosque that he attends and his home is now a sanctuary, and that anyone violating the calm will pay the price of his outrage.
Others will join him for the same reasons. Sunni and Shiite will vow to each other that in their neighborhood, they will pledge their lives to protect each other’s family, property and freedom. This is the basis of a true democracy.
No amount of imposed order from outside forces can equal the power of individuals taking responsibility for their own well being. By allowing this "little bit of chaos" policy, Mr. Rumsfield is following the only course that will bring the type of democracy that is permanent.
SOD,
There would have to be a draft to get more troops...
Although I am not myself in immediate danger because of the present situation, I am also worried.
I'm not worried about thugs roaming the streets of my California neighborhood, but I'm worried by the "realists" who are trying to find excuses to leave the Iraqi people manage their hardships by themselves, which at the same time would encourage the thugs in the streets of Baghdad and Ramadi, as well as the Jihadis of Al-Anbar, and convince them that they are invincible and will soon be victorious because the West in general and the US in particular does not have the stomach to see this struggle through.
I hope we will overcome the assaults of the "reasonable" arguments about dialogue with Iran and Syria as well as our dear brothers of ITM survived the virtual siege of their Baghdad neighborhood. The arguments of the realists don't have the immediate impact of a mortar projectile, but they are just as dangerous in the long run. I fear a lapse of courage and determination, and it worries me. I hope it is only temporary.
God bless you! Dom.
I am so glad you and your immediate family have survived the past few days of horror. My deepest sympathies to your uncle and his wife for the trauma they are suffering; the same goes for all other innocent Iraqis caught up through no fault of their own in the vicious conflict between the rival factions.
My thoughts are with you all at this difficult time.
Hearing that people are taking their security into their own hands is good news indeed...quickly overridden by the sadness of your Uncle.
I wonder, is any of this making people turn away from the Muslim religion?
sod relies on CNN.
hahahahhahahahaha
welcome to your first adult conversation!
Sometimes a little bit of chaos can be a good thing"
Donald Rumsfield uttered this phrase while looting followed the fall of Baghdad. It was the policy statement that the mainstream media missed.
this was a moronic thing to say back then, and it is even more stupid now.
iraq is completly out of control. the hope that any good will come out of this chaos and bloodshed is absolutly idiotic.
Stay safe, get ready.
How hard it must be to have hope. But I keep holding on to what you wrote about long ago "It is like a cancer, but at least now there is hope for treatment."
Maybe the meetings in Jordan will produce some solutions for this cancer. I do think we need a Bad Ass strong handed Iraqi PM who will take care of the problems. Maybe someone can light a fire in his thinking and get him to act.
As always, I am hoping with you.
What a horrible experience. It's so hard to hear about all the innocent people who are caught up in all this chaos. I hope your Uncle and his family will be able to return to their home and that your friend comes home safely.
I can understand, especially, your worry about your missing friend. Be careful.
Thanks for your post. I was worried that another catastrophe had hit your family. I too pray for the peace loving people of Iraq. May the peace lovers grow in strength and reject the calls to belong to a militia that kills innocents.
Saud,
to put more troops on the ground, it would take a draft. So in that respect, there goes your "Intelligent" military. During a draft, they take anybody and nearly everybody, high school diploma not withstanding.
Then how safe woould you feel in your tiny little world?
.
welcome to your first adult conversation!
With you?
hahahhaha (again).
It appears the wimps, losers and terrorist apologists are now in charge of US foreign policy
Dear bros ... please accept my deepest regrets and apologies for the current cowardice, greed and stupidity of american politicians of both parties.
there does not need to be a draft for more troops in Iraq, all it takes is the political and national will. unfortunately that seems to be in short supply right now.
Members of shia and sunni islam worldwide should be ashamed of what is happening in iraq, dont blame the US when you can't control yourselves. Once again the silemce is deafening. I am sure you will find some way to blame this on israel. Isn't that how you address all your short comings?
Thanks for posting. Anytime you go without posting for more than three or four days I begin to worry for your safety.
How big is your neighborhood? Are you talking one street with ten houses or several blocks with dozens of houses? Either way, it is good to see eveyone stick together in these trying times.
from NRO VDH
Why Rush to Talk? [Victor Davis Hanson]
Why all the hurry in talking to Syria or Iran or any other terrorist-sponsoring regime that might offer (they really won't) concessions in one theater for an American pass on their roguery in another?
These regimes may talk, but only when it is in their interest (i.e., they are desperate) to do so. IF the UN ever found the Assad government responsible for the serial murdering in Lebanon or the Iranians guilty of lying about nuclear proliferation, and IF in response the Security Council ordered economic sanctions or a boycott/embargo, then either country might be willing to discuss its role in destabilizing Iraq. Or IF Iraq and Lebanon were stabilizing and became prosperous, then Damascus and Teheran might seek to stave off a regional wave of reform through "dialogue. " The same is true if either thought their terrorism had earned them the possibility of a retaliatory air strike.
But they won't now when they think we need them more than they do us. The only reason Hamas-supposedly the most radical of all the Palestinian terrorists-is talking to Israel over Gaza, is the IDF's improved defence and offense, that have stymied suicide bombing's effectiveness, and put into jeopardy almost all of the so-call wannabe martyrs of Hamas. The same was true of 1972. What thawed the Paris Peace Talks was Nixon's supposed "Christmas" bombing, and what doomed the accords were the later cut-offs of American support. The communists were willing to talk in 1973 but not in 1975 because of differing perceptions of American power.
The latest crop of realists should review allied efforts circa 1939 to talk to Spain, Sweden, Switzerland, or Turkey about their respective roles in aiding the Third Reich. They got nowhere.
(And of course, later British feelers in 1940 to the Soviet Union in hopes they would stop supplying Hitler ores and oil while the Luftwaffe was hammering London were futile.)
Fast forward to spring 1945, suddenly all these neutrals had systematically cut ties with Nazi Germany, and were scrambling to find ways, informally or officially, to tie themselves with the Allies. Only the perception of the course of the war had changed and the leverage that comes with winning. In contrast, each time a peace feeler is extended to either Syria or Iran, expect more murders in Lebanon and full-speed ahead on nuclear acquisition in Iran.
In general, we should neither seek to negotiate nor threaten either regime, but instead very quietly press ahead with winning in Iraq, and galvanizing allies to prepare sanctions against both—while preparing for the worst.
Posted at 9:51 AM
from NRO
Would You Trust This Country with the Bomb? [James S. Robbins]
Today an Iranian transport crashed carrying members of the Pasdaran, the Revolutionary Guards. In January 2006 the head of the Pasdaran ground forces and several other high ranking officers were killed in another plane crash. In December 2005 yet another transport went down, the passengers mainly journalists traveling to cover naval maneuvers. In 2004 a planeload of Iranian aerospace scientists were killed in a plane crash. In 2003 a troop carrier crashed killing 276 Pasdaran. In response to the 2005 crash President Ahmadinejad said, "What is important is that [the crash victims] have shown the way to martyrdom which we must follow." And they want us to trust them with nuclear capability?
Posted at 2:34 AM
It justs gets gooder and gooder - nobody burned alive
How can you tell Shia from Sunni? If you just tell the bad guy whatever he wants to hear can't you pass?
How do they bad guys tell Shia from Sunni?
Ceasefire: gives us a chance to build up
Hearing that people are taking their security into their own hands is good news indeed..
could anyone of you please explain to me: what is the significant difference between the militia they are forming and other militias? (you know, the one s you want to disband)
to put more troops on the ground, it would take a draft. So in that respect, there goes your "Intelligent" military. During a draft, they take anybody and nearly everybody, high school diploma not withstanding.
wrong on all accounts.
1. McCain has proposed more troops as well. i haven t heard him mentioning the draft. have you?
2. draft means "everybody could be drafted" not "everybody must be drafted".
how about a draft for guys WITH a highschool diploma?!? shock!
With you?
hahahhaha (again).
you might want to compare the answers that you gave me, to the answer i gave to Burly.
watch and learn.
Burly, more troops would NOT take a draft. The US has about 150,000 troops in Iraq and over 1.5 million active troops. You might want to find a better source of information.
Hearing that people are taking their security into their own hands is good news indeed
Good news? That the Iraqi government and Iraqi security forces together with the US military are still incapable of protecting the citizens is good news? That bloggers like Mo and Omar should have to stand armed watch to defend their homes, and hope the missiles don't take them out anyway is good news?
Unbelievable.
I am sorry Bob but it would take the draft.
Kris, it happened during the hurricanes. We had martial law and curfews. People looking out for each other.
Those 1.5 million troops are not all ground troops and there are many disbursed to other hot spots.
Mo, glad to hear you and your brother are OK. It turns out that there is at least one dangerous double agent who is feeding the wire services fake news to spread disinformation and make people feel more alarmed and frightened. The story about the 6 Sunnis being burned alive now appears to be a fantasy. CENTCOM is requesting a retraction from AP in a publicly released e-mail to them.
Best wishes.
...
M & O, I'm so glad you are still sort of okay. I hope and pray every day that the world will not let Iraq become a basket case. You seem to have been abandoned by many of the world's leaders now, but I'm hoping there is something afoot that we just don't know about. What's happening on the diplomatic front seems almost incomprehensible. Perhaps its the calm before the storm. Perhaps it's the "last straw" offer.
The other star of the crisis was rumors about ugly revenge attacks and I sometimes feel that those rumors are part of the terrorists and militias propaganda campaign.
in the beginning of your post you talk about how rumors of revenge attacks come from terrorists, but in the last part you seem to confirm that it is true, as you're telling the story about your uncle
and now a bunch of thugs made him a target for their campaign of blind revenge.
am i missing something????? i know it's a confusing situation and your neighborhood/city is going through something awful, but revenge is a very human feeling. it takes a lot of courage and faith to see through it. why aren't the imans urging that? nonviolence, resist the cycle.
Unbelievable.
Kris, Seattle | 11.27.06 - 7:44 pm |
yes, as was ours, wonder how we ever
managed to survive w/o all that help??
==
You and the peaceloving Iraqis are in my prayers.
Congratulations on standing firm in your own neighborhood. This kind of "Minuteman" behavior is the kind that wins.
Do the idiot Shias who are "cleansing" their neighborhoods realize that they are turning those "cleansed" neighborhoods into primary targets? Their opposite numbers will no longer have to worry about hitting their own if they decide to bomb those neighborhoods.
That is a VERY bad idea... for THEIR point of view!
I am sorry Lisa it wouldn't
MO and Omar, i am so glad to see this post--to know that you are ok--to see that you have not given up-- i just now saw on my tv news, something about a Sunnie web site (in Arabic) that posted a 10 point plan to protect neighborhoods,, be ready with your AK, put snipers on the roof.. yes I have been and will continue to pray for your saftey, yes i am a follower of Christ,,, I pray for the good people of Iraq and the ME, I am praying for the safty of the Pope, i agree with sod on only one thing,,,, your fame does make you more vunerable, please be extra careful..you and your family are the hope of the future,,and i pray that the future is one of peace and prosperity for Iraq and for the US,, someday i know this will be true, but since i am not god, and HE IS in control, and only HE knows why this or that happens or doesn't happen, all i can do is continue to pray and vote in my country to try to do my small part.(sorry though that the "realists" have taken control for now....Mo and Omar,, you are and will always be heros of Iraq, in fact i believe that all Iraq, Egyptian, Iranian,and other bloggers who are bloggin in the face of real danger are heros. God Bless you.
kelly
May God damn all those bastards to hell. Your strength is incomprehensible to me. These f'ers will not win. All I can do is pray. God please bless the great Iraqi people and damn these sick, sick bastards to hell.
It justs gets gooder and gooder
Bob | 11.27.06 - 6:40 pm |
oh my.. AP took a report about something that didn't happen, made by a guy who doesn't even exist, and it managed to make it's way around the globe as fact.. wow, the journalistic integrity gap is growing ever wider, where the heck was AP reporting from, Okinawa??
==
When will we name the enemy of civilization?
What Islamists have learned
Bob | 11.27.06 - 6:47 pm |
What the Islamists Have Learned
http://littlegreenfootballs.com/...ve_Learned&
only
http://tinyurl.com/y9pws9
November 26, 2006
some did not listen, they're not listening
still.. perhaps they never will.. 
==
For me, it's clear, Stupid shia took the bombings and terror before to gain power and offer Iraq to Iran.
I see only now two solutions:
1) Arrest & kill Muqtada al-Sadr asap
2) Attack Sadr - City !
Everyone of his allies like maliki etc. can choose: either with us or with them. But without a dead SADR, nothing will work.
Religious politics is dead now, it's discredited !
I am glad you are safe but so sorry you are going through all this.
Maliki needs to stand up and do something or get out of the way and let someone more worthy lead Iraq.
I suggest Allawi
Thank you so much for sharing this with us. You are in our prayers.
How strange to hear that it's the Baathists who are fighting the Islamists (in Adhamiya at any rate)! Are Saddam's supporters now the good guys? Or is it a case where you don't want either of them to win?
Since one of the options apparently on the table (although a pretty unlikely one) is the installation of a 'strong man' in Iraq to try and retake control of the country, how ironic would it be if it turned out to be a Baathist!
bg, war is always a matter of will first. Weapons, tactics, Strategy only become important when both sides have the will to fight. The Islamists are attacking our will because they cannot beat us in any other area. And yes, the MSM is trying desperatly to ensure that the USA loses this war. I'm not sure why, since they will be the first to face a firing squad when we do, but that is a whole different issue.
Mahammed's post remindes me of an old movie I watched about Paris in 1940. It was about a bunch of people in a hotel bar that were trying to figure out what to do as the Germans rolled across the border. It has the same dark atmosphere of impending doom. They was a menace looming over everything that could be felt, but not seen heard or smelt.
I have hopes that with a democratic Congress in a position to take responsibility for what happens in Iraq, there might be a change in the MSM spin on events. Prolly not, but one can hope.
"A house divided against itself cannot stand. I believe this government cannot endure permanently half-slave and half-free. I do not expect the Union to be dissolved - I do not expect the house to fall - but I do expect it will cease to be divided. It will become all one thing or all the other." Lincoln's 'House-Divided' Speech in Springfield, Illinois, June 16, 1858.
This is just as true in Iraq of 2006 as it was in America of 1864
But wait, there's more. Lincoln on todays Democrats;
"At what point shall we expect the approach of danger? By what means shall we fortify against it? Shall we expect some transatlantic military giant, to step the Ocean, and crush us at a blow? Never! All the armies of Europe, Asia and Africa combined, with all the treasure of the earth (our own excepted) in their military chest; with a Buonaparte for a commander, could not by force, take a drink from the Ohio, or make a track on the Blue Ridge, in a trial of a thousand years. At what point, then, is the approach of danger to be expected? I answer, if it ever reach us it must spring up amongst us. It cannot come from abroad. If destruction be our lot, we must ourselves be its author and finisher. As a nation of freemen, we must live through all time, or die by suicide."
The Collected Works of Abraham Lincoln edited by Roy P. Basler, Volume I, "Address Before the Young Men's Lyceum,of Springfield, Illinois (January 27, 183
, p. 109.
I just love muslim tolerance
Bob | 11.27.06 - 6:45 pm |
Why We Rarely Hear from Moderate Muslims
http://littlegreenfootballs.com/...te_Muslims&
only
http://tinyurl.com/y4nlda
November 27, 2006
oh come on now, you know how peaceful & tolerant Islam is.. i mean, Muslims can say & do anything they want in the US.. heck, even be elected to Congress.. build private mosques & schools to their hearts content.. and of course there's no limit to what they can freely speak about religion or politics.. why they even have the ACLU & CAIR ready to do the PC jump on any bone of contention real or fabricated at the speed of light.. of course there's only one stipulation..
AS LONG AS THE RELIGION/POLITICS (samo samo) IS NOT
ISLAM.. oh no.. don't dare call Usama or any of his barbaric
thugs a (gasp) terrorist!!
"convert or die" (preferabley in
silence, or we must silence you)
"peace be with upon you".. gah!!
==
I am NOT a doom and gloomer, but things in Iraq are at an all time low. I cannot see an end to this at this time. Maliki is in the pocket of Al Sadr, and Al Sadr is running amok. Somebody please tell me what the US can do at this point to get control of the situation.
From what I see, like I said the other day, is for our troops to pull up stakes and head to Kurdistan and wait out the bloodbath until those causing the problem come to their senses, or obliterate the entire population. If Iran and Syria get involved, lob a few cruise missles at Assad and Ahmedenijad.
I am just thinking and typing. Maybe what needs to happen is for the MNF to start and all out offensive against anyone on the streets carrying a weapon. Shoot first and ask questions later. Patrol the streets in platoon strength, kick ass and take names, and not necessarily in that order. Tell Maliki to shut up and sit down. Let us deal with the situation.
We will take some casualities, but that is what needs to happen. Make a strong statement that we are more than willing to kill people, break things and blow up shit.
.
"my uncle called on Friday to tell me that he and his family of eight were being forced to leave their neighborhood"
Mohammed
Mohammed and Omar,
You sort of left that story with no ending. It would be tough to be forced out of your home in any country but it has to be even worse in Iraq. If forced out by fire or flood, most people have some insurance but there is no insurance payment when armed thugs force you to leave.
What I am asking is: does your uncle and family need financial aid?
Readers, Please consider making a donation to help the brothers. They are one of our best sources of information and worth more than what we pay for a newspaper's lies each day.
My family and I will be praying for the safety of you and your family. Before God, how can men perpetrate so much evil upon one another? My heart goes out to you.
I had been worried about you with all of the bad news coming from Iraq. I am glad you are safe for now. We will keep you in our prayers.
It's time for the long goodbye. It's also time to save face and pick a winner. Introducing Sadr, the new Washington darling??
It's okay though, he's not really a person. Sadr is a brand!
Hi Mo and Omar,
Glad you're safe. Watch your backs.
Much as I hate to say it, I honestly don't think the US can do much in the Shia and Sunni parts of Iraq, unless we depose the Maliki government, exterminate al-Sadr and the militias and confront Iran and Syria,who ar fomenting much of the violence through the Badr Force and the Mahdi Army.
I hope I'm wrong, but I don't see that happening at this point..which is sad.
It will have to be mostly done by the Iraqis themselves...if they want it. Do they?
I read where the Crowds stoned Maliki's convoy yesterday in Sadr City.
Maybe that's the beginning of the end for him.
I guess what Iraq needs now is leadership you can get behind, someone who will say enough is enough.
Best of luck - stay safe and like I said, watch your backs...
As Always,
Freedom Fighter
"There would have to be a draft to get more troops...
Lisa"
The Democrat in charge of the Armed Forces Committee ( Ringal, IIRC) has said he will try to get the draft re-instated. I don't think it will happen.
It is also a factually inaccurate statement. The US Army is as big right now as Congress wants it to be. Congress decides how much money is spent on the Army, which in turn determines the size. The MSM wants us all to think it is a shortage of volunteers that stops the Army from Expanding, but that is a LIE. There are more young people trying to get in the army then the army can take.
It took my Nephew 2 years to get in because he had tatoos and the Army wouldn't take anybody with tata. You could get them after you were in and nobody said anything, but not before. Someone at the Pentagon finally realized how fookin stooooopid that was and changed it. So now my Nephew is in Alabama finishing off AIT, or the modern version of it. He is supposed to go to Radar school next, but He is turning gung-ho and is working to get his scores at the range high enough to get into sniper school, although, IIRC, you have to have a combat tour before they will accept you. That could have changed.
Anyway, if Congress wants a bigger army, they just have to spend the money. No need for a draft, which would screw up the army.
I think that is why the Democrats WANT a draft. The Volunteer army WANTS to fight, that is why they volunteered. That messes up the minds of Liberasl, who are mostly cowards and don't understand about facing fear and staring it down.
"To lead uninstructed people to war is to throw them away."
- Confucius
Conscripts don't fight as well as motivated volunteers.
People are able to protect their neighborhoods but are unable to stand up to the thugs? The vast majority of Iraqis who believe in a single Iraq 5 years from now need to shed their victim mentality in order to stand up to the extremist minority. Link up with each other, both Shia and Sunni, and create safe areas and support each other rejecting those who will choose one side or the other. Having Maliki whose conflict of interest with Sadr causes him to not clamp down on Sadr's militias makes this difficult, but it isn't impossible. When leadership fails like this, there is no room for bystanders.
Mohammed, when are you going to start lobbying your government to do something about the fact that Muslims are RELIGIOUS BIGOTS, even against different sects? If you teach children to not merely be non-religious-bigots but ANTI-RELIGIOUS-BIGOTS, not only will you solve the problem in Iraq, but it will be the start of preventing another 9/11, which was down to religious bigots as well.
You haven't even STARTED addressing the problem!
As the second highest priority, you can start lobbying your government to teach the Iraqi people to be ANTI-RACISTS instead of racists. 9/11 was also in part a racist attack.
As the third highest priority, you need to get the government to teach the Iraqi people to be ANTI-DOGMA. Once again, it is a dogma that is causing so much misery. Not communism this time, but the Quran.
The solution has been documented for over 2 years now, and you haven't even made a START on implementing it.
As such, you're guilty of NEGLIGENCE.
great find bg!!
imagine if a deacon only let someone stay in the hall in a Christian church..
i bet its still kinda fun to ride on the way way back machine..
…The other star of the crisis was rumors about ugly revenge attacks and I sometimes feel that those rumors are part of the terrorists and militias propaganda campaign. …
There’s nothing quite like getting confirmation from the guy in harm’s way.
Faked news of murders has become a weapon of the terrorists, and the Palestinians and Hezbollah have already been exposed. Now, it is a couple of stringers in Iraq. Here’s a round-up of some of the lies.
http://gatewaypundit.blogspot.com/
This is a nifty trick, but it exposes a substantial weakness on the part of the foe. They have figured out that they don’t even have to kill people to make those softies in the West cringe—all they have to do is say somebody did.
What does this ultimately say about the resources of the enemies of the Iraqis?
This situation is bad, but it is by no means hopeless. There is no need to hand Iraq and Syria an unearned victory against the innocent.
Just curious: how many of your neighbors in your neighborhood have guns?
If these gun-pumping lunatic gangs are afraid to go into your neighborhood, for fear of you all shooting them, then perhaps you can get some peace.
Keep the faith my friend. Peaceful Iraq will eventually prevail. America has had a bloody past as well. We fought a revolution against Great Britain. We had a civil war amongst our selves that killed something like 650,000 people. Despite all the war and conflict, America came to be a great nation as will Iraq the cradle of civilization.
I'm glad you are safe. I'm sorry things are this way. I hope they get better quickly so you and your family can be safe, happy and enjoy life again.
how sad for us in the west. The muslims have decided that they will never stop fighting.
The situation on the Israeli border is diagnostic of the global status now. The muslims there will never stop trying to kill jews, never. Recently I read of a 64 year old Grandmother who went on a suicide mission against israeli soldiers.
Fahdi and others will make vain attempts to "prove" that islam is not at war with us, but the evidence against their position continues to mount.
The link Bob provides is also quite revealing. A cease fire means nothing to the muslims, nothing. These people have no honor as we in the civilized world understand it. They simply wish to kill.
As for Iraq I will repeat my position. It's not the number of American soldiers on the ground there, its the RoE's. If it comes down to a general melee our guys will apply lethal, focused force, but for now the RoE's are tilted toward a less lethal posture.
If the President and his advisors want more force in Iraq they can obtain it tomorrow by making a few changes in the RoE's. Ash, who desperately wants us to lose in Iraq will call me a baby killer but we've tried it his way and look what we've got.
Kris is whining about providing security, but she missed the point. It's not about providing security, its about having a monopoly on the use of violence. Security results when the group that holds such a monopoly is responsive to the population at large.
Saddam wasn't security because he used his monopoly in a random fashion that suited his purposes alone. Any strong man will quell the violence for now, but unless that strongman is responsive to the people, the lull in the violence will be short lived. In a short while the strongman will be using his monopoly to retain his power.
We in America have a situation wherein the government has a near monopoly and the government is reasonably responsive to the people. There are areas where the government's monopoly is under siege, such as our ghettos, but for the most part it is the police who use force.
Iraq is a long way from that. Here's what I'm thinking:
(1) Increase the lethality of the US forces. Aim at the "leaders" and follow any trail to it's ultimate conclusion. If that means cabinet ministers, arrest them.
(2) Impose a press black out. No AP or Al Jazeera liars, just shut them down. Right now they are fueling the fires and causing enormous confusion world wide. They can't or won't get the story straight so let's simply shut them down for now.
(3) Call it martial law and use it as a means of shouldering Maliki aside. he's not up to this challenge and his dithering and poor decision making is needlessly endangering everybody.
(4) end catch and release. If a man is arrested, hang on to him for a good long time. Yes some innocent people will be housed and fed at government expense for a while, but getting the evil assholes out of circulation is simply too critical a goal right now.
(5) Launch a guerilla war in Iran.
(6) Destroy Syria's military facilities near the Iraq border.
Iraq will never have stability unless Iran and Syria are confronted. The stakes are too high for them to allow a flourishing democracy right next door. So both must be confronted.
As I said, its a sad situation for the west, the muslims have gone to war.
"Not everyone will absorb the lesson but I'm sure that this last dose of terror has changed the feelings of so many people here, a change in favor of denouncing and rejecting violence, I hope."
I remain to be convinced of that, Mo. Maliki doesn't seem to want to do much about it. He'd have arrested Mookie and the rest long before now. Some have floated the theory that the government is turning a blind eye so that the Sunnis can be defeated. It is justice that is supposed to be blind, not the sectarian politicians.
God Bless the Lebanese.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/
wp...6112701456.html
excerpt:
Part provocation, part appeal -- with a dose of farce that doesn't feel all that farcical -- advertisements went up this month on 300 billboards across the Lebanese capital and appeared in virtually every newspaper in the country. Thousands of e-mails carried the ads across the Internet to expatriates. Each offered its take on what one of the campaign's creative directors called a country on the verge of "absurdistan" -- cooking lessons by Greek Orthodox, building for sale to Druze, hairstyling by an Armenian Catholic, a fashion agency looking for "a beautiful Shiite face." At the bottom, the ads read in English, "Stop sectarianism before it stops us," or, more bluntly in Arabic, "Citizenship is not sectarianism."
**************
Lebanon is a front in the GWOT. This war is winnable. We have to recognize our allies, and both recognize and use all the tools we have.
***************
Another ally.
http://www.hijabman.com/store
That first item up is brand new.
Well done bro
The fact of the matter still remains the same , all these efforts by the late and too slow starter goodies is too little ,and too bloody late to save themselves from the savagery of the terrorists and all the other filthy names ...the falasy of immunity from harm was just too weak to start with , and they are paying for their arrogance and indifferences towards the innocent Iraqis in all their colours !
The latest report of self financed terrorist in Iraq ..I do not call a lot of Crap ! but not that far from it as it shows how far away !
Terror Financed by kidnaping, raiding ,and other marvel way ! but still largely engineered and financed from a broad ..YES with some of the disappearing oil but a fraction of the huge ammount filtered back
moron dad
"As I said, its a sad situation for the west, the muslims have gone to war."
I see moron dad has now completely lost it! Despite the fact that not one single mainstream politician in the US agrees with him that Islam is at war with the US, moron dad knows better! He knows better than the President, the Pentagon, the Senate, Congress, the US Army and the CIA.
Fortunately, no-one with a brain or in charge of anything that matters is going to follow his 6 step Plan for Disaster. I thought it might be the liar and drug addict Rush Limbaugh's idea, but I just checked his website and not even he is advocating raids into Iran and destroying Syrian facilities. If moron dad is more extreme than Rush, then he's really pushing the limits.
Mohammed and Omar...
I've feared this horror would come for a long time. May God help you and yours, and keep you and your family safe.
We love you and worry about you...
Freedom Fighter @ 1:52 am. Are those crowds stoning Maliki angry at him because he hasn't achieved security or because he's a traitor? Don't forget, the Sadrists threatened to pull out of the alliance if Maliki meets with Bush. Maliki meets with Bush this week.
I have a theory. Marine Dad has suggested it's time to change the Rules of Engagement. He's right. I truly hope that will be on the agenda when the two leaders meet. Maliki is weak. He needs someone else to do the dirty work.
I recall a few months ago Maliki was given three months to stop the violence, which was surely an ultimatum. Those three months are very nearly up.
I also recall responding to a quote someone had posted in a previous thread where I called it politic-ese. I said the message being given was that Western allies were getting their ducks lined up and once they were in place then the forces would be unleashed.
I suspect a lot of countries whose representatives were attending the recent APEC meeting in Hanoi were being told in private meetings what the plan was and that committments were being made to see them through.
If there is diplomacy going on in all the wrong places, perhaps that is what the message is to those regimes. Perhaps they are telling Iran and Syria to cease and desist or the gloves are coming off.
O & M, if you want to get out, now is the time to do it.
*
sod | 11.27.06 - 5:01 pm |
this was a moronic thing to say back then, and it is even more stupid now.
Not necessarily. Look at Yugoslavia. You had a similar set of ethnic divisions. However, once the controlling force (the Russian Army) left, those divisions went to war. Maybe j.west is right, perhaps the plan is to get the civil war over with first. Sounds like a daring plan to me but one that you would not want to have published.
.
Stay strong, there is nothing else you can do! You are in our prayers.
Actually...
CNN has just devoted quite a few days to the divide between the East and the West; The divide between the Muslim and the Christian. I have to be honest here, I never thought there was such a divide until 9/11. Ignorance I guess on my part for not seeing that there was a divide in some peoples minds there. Now I don't believe there is such a divide between regular people like say us and Mohammed and Omar. I think we are like he says, just people getting through this life the best way we know how. Then there are those zealots out there...who seek to destroy and kill for an agenda or for what they see is for God.
For the Army and the troop numbers...we have continually shrunk our Army over the years...smaller is better because we have sophisticated weapons now. We have over half a million troops that have served in Iraq and several have been there more than once. Does that mean that now we need to increase our size? Depends on what you think can be done at this point. I also believe that because as someone said that the overall will is not there so people are not lining up in droves for military service.
But my question is now what is our mission now in Iraq? If my leaders commit us to a war, they better have the strength, will and wisdom to win the damn thing. State the mission and set the goals and by God get it done. Also we have now seen that the average Iraqi is arming themselves in order to protect each other.
I read and saw pictures in the National Geographic of our army medical service. They showed our hurt soldiers but they also showed pictures of Iraqis, IA and civilians that have been attacked being cared for by our medics. So also do I see pictures of our dead and wounded and hear the loud hateful voices of those who blame America for all the worlds woes and it angers me so. There are American men and women dying in the cause to stabilize another country. Then those voices will say but it is worse than when Saddam was there or there was nothing wrong with Iraq when Saddam was in charge. Really? Really? Is that so? Well, he is still alive! Their great leader Saddam who killed, raped and committed genocide and was found cowering in a hole is still alive! Shall it be the will of the Iraqi and of others in the world for hin to be set free and replaced on his throne of dictatorship? I hear the loud voices of those who blame my country and some of those loud voices are coming from inside my country. From people that have come to my country for a better life or an educattion and you stand in judgement of her? Or you sit in another country where you offer nothing but insults to my country and never see the over 20,000 injured American soldiers some who have lost limbs for the sake of freeing Iraqis from the evil Saddam. Now there is Iran, Syria and Saudi who are now using the Iraqi land for a warring ground with guess who is there fighting and dying for the Iraqi? What countries? Whose people? Whose country has stood up and demanded that the destabilizing of Iraq be stopped? Who has sent in their troops to help us help the Iraqis? You are quick to condemn our entry into Iraq, quick to say it is good that Saddam is not in rule but mute are your voices to lift up the cause of freedom and security that my countrymen and Iraqis countrymen die for daily!
Good Luck Mohammed and Omar, I in no way envy you the situation you find yourselves.
Marine dad wrote:
"Ash, who desperately wants us to lose in Iraq will call me a baby killer but we've tried it his way and look what we've got."
Marine dad, you are an immoral extemist whose views are very similar to the suicide jihadists except you are weaker in that you wouldn't sacrifice your own life for you odious views. I accuse you of this not because of my desires for Iraq but rather for the views you have posted, numerous times, and you refuse to disown. In fact that post of yours above just furthers the evidence of your immorality 'make the ROE's more lethal' ya right, massacre the muslims, marine dad's approach to the problem. Here are some examples of things you've posted Marine dad:
“If we don't kill the kids, then they complete "their mission" if we do kill the kids, well the parents can call them martyrs and the insurgents can try to use our own sensibilities against us.
See how this works?
So what if America simply changed the roes and started killing anybody that did anything to advance the insurgency? What if it truly became no hold barred?”
http://www.haloscan.com/comments...3222402/
#603022
--------------------------
“What if we simply picked a town in Al Anbar province and leveled it? What if we actually gave the people who are dealing with the insurgents a life or death choice?
Suppose we surrounded Ramadi and just rained destruction on it for a few days. Think the people who are supporting the insurgents will continue to do so?
How about this, what if changed the RoE's so that anything any soldier considered a hostile action or situation allowed for the use of lethal force? Think the insurgents would continue to use kids as spotters and mules?”
snip
“It seems to me that we would only have to completely destroy one town. Let Al Jazeera broadcast the smoldering ruin of some insurgent hotbed and let's see how much help the bad guys get going forward.”
Snip
“suggestions for the target city are most welcome.
marine dad | Email | Homepage | 05.31.06 - 5:45 pm | #
http://www.haloscan.com/comments...3222402/
#602996
And unless I am wrong and please correct me if I am Mohammed when you refer to criminals that you are not referring to the US forces. And if it is not the US that is the criminals, then who is killing and terrorizing by violence of barbaric proportions on a daily basis? Who?
Kafir, "Look at Yugoslavia. You had a similar set of ethnic divisions. However, once the controlling force (the Russian Army) left, those divisions went to war."
The Russian Army was never in Yugoslavia. In actual fact, the Yugoslavs went to a lot of effort to arm themselves to ward off on attack by either NATO or the Warsaw Pact. Those arms were eventually used to slaughter each other instead.
They had a communist dictator though - Tito. The Yugoslavs are as nutty as the Iraqis. But it's looking good now. Serbia is classified as "free" by www.freedomhouse.org. And Serbia wants to join NATO. The people are still nutcases though. It'll take a while.
Mark Auman | 11.27.06 - 6:44 pm |
Ahh, but there's the rub. He can also pass, so since you won't know whether he's Shia or Sunni, how can you answer correctly?
If the brothers' uncle is Sunni and his wife is Shia what are their children?
.
Another ally, and this one is French.
http://memri.org/bin/articles.cg...=sd&
ID=SP136806
excerpts:
Former Marseilles Mufti Soheib Bencheikh: ‘Islam Must Be Criticized, Just as Christianity Was [Criticized] During the Enlightenment; Islam is a Message for All Humanity – Therefore It Is Not the Property of Muslims [Alone]’
Dr. Soheib Bencheikh was born in Jeddah, Saudi Arabia in 1961, studied Islamic theology at Al-Azhar University and received his doctorate from the prestigious Parisian Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes (EPHE). Formerly the mufti of Marseilles, France, he is a member of the French Council for the Muslim Religion and head of the French Institute for Islamic Science. Recently, he announced his candidacy for the April 2007 French presidential election, and launched his election website (http://www.elanrepublicain.net ). In addition, one of his supporters maintains a blog (http://soheib.bencheikh.over-blog.com ) that includes interviews he has given to the press, as well as links to other French Muslim reformist websites.
Bencheikh believes that French-style secularism is a necessary precondition for the reform of Islam, and he calls on both Muslims and non-Muslims to participate in critiquing Islam, reinterpreting its holy texts, combating fundamentalism, and helping Islam adapt to the modern era.
***************
I would note that the word “secular” as he uses it here is not synonymous with “atheist,” and that his arguments proceed from a deep reference for Islam, but not for some of its adherents. Also, he uses a word familiar to Catholics, “heresy.”
excerpt:
Bencheikh states that political Islam is a heresy promoted by the Arab states: "The first heresy in Islam in the 20th century was the politicization of Islam. As soon as Muslim countries became independent came the birth of political Islam - i.e. a kind of Islam that is dictated by the state, obeys only the state, and is merely an organ of the state - since it helps the state to increase its power and oppress the people... We are all familiar with the failures and the bloody [inclinations] of political Islam.
************
“heresy” means error, a very precise kind of error, involving abuse of the teachings of a religion, typically by grabbing onto isolated bits and pieces of a religion and blowing them out of proportion.
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/...then/
07256b.htm
Foddy,
MD:"As I said, its a sad situation for the west, the muslims have gone to war."
"Despite the fact that not one single mainstream politician in the US agrees with him that Islam is at war with the US, moron dad knows better!"
The Muslims themselves know it, and the US politicians are not ready to engage that threat, as there are more geostrategic objectives to be obtained first.
Nevertheless, Bush said "we are at war with the Islamic fascists". He kept that to himself for years, but eventually said it.
valerie | 11.28.06 - 6:07 am |
Good stuff, valerie. Reading the reports of the fake news reminded me of the days when I listened to Howard Stern and he would have one of his flunkies (usually stuttering John) to call into a live news program with some fake news only to end it with shouts of "Howard Stern, Bababouie!"
Now, if we could just get the fake news sources in Iraq to shout something at the end......
.
sod | 11.27.06 - 7:27 pm |
could anyone of you please explain to me: what is the significant difference between the militia they are forming and other militias?
One is offensive, one is defensive.
.
marine dad, "(3) Call it martial law and use it as a means of shouldering Maliki aside. he's not up to this challenge and his dithering and poor decision making is needlessly endangering everybody."
Maliki simply doesn't have the troops required to deal with the huge number of lawbreakers. No-one is to blame for this, unless you want to blame the Iraqi people for being criminals. The current strategy of training up more and more Iraqi security forces until the country has enough, is sound. Iraq can afford 3 million Iraqi security forces, if that's what it takes.
"(5) Launch a guerilla war in Iran."
Now there's something completely useless. Guerillas have no chance at all of toppling the Iranian government, which is the only thing that matters. If you want to do some experiments in Iran, make sure that whoever is fighting has US air support.
"(6) Destroy Syria's military facilities near the Iraq border."
Why not just liberate Syria when it is its turn?
"Iraq will never have stability unless Iran and Syria are confronted."
Iraq's problems are not Iran and Syria, but religious bigotry, racism and criminality. It's a fundamental problem with the mentality of people of the region. Until this mentality is confronted, there will be an endless stream of 9/11 attempts. If they have the means, anyway. The will is certainly there.
"As I said, its a sad situation for the west, the muslims have gone to war."
They've been at war since Mohammed founded the "religion".
They're not the only group who has been at war either. The Anglophones have been permanently at war for centuries.
War is the correct doctrine. The Dutch and Baltics learnt what happens to "neutrals". Now they have a "never again" approach to neutrality. The correct approach is to continually strive to spread your ideology. Looking for a chink in your enemy's armour. Looking for a pretext to attack a weaker enemy, without garnering a hostile coalition against you. This is something that both free powers (like the Anglophones) and dictators (like the Soviet Union) do. It is called geostrategy and it is important to do. The goal can be summed up as a desire to turn every country in the world into a clone of Australia. Australia uses its own resources to HELP in the cause of spreading freedom. The rest of the world needs to be doing the same. Not enemy dictatorships. Not neutrals. But ALLIES.
Mohammed,
I will pray for you and yours to find some peace in the time to come. It's hard for us in America to understand what you are going through, but your writings are giving us some insight. I wish I knew an easy answer, until I do, be safe and pray for God to finally be sick of those who terrorize in his name.
marine dad | 11.28.06 - 7:21 am |
Recently I read of a 64 year old Grandmother who went on a suicide mission against israeli soldiers.
Perhaps it is time to define for the Muslims just what is and is not a martyr. I live in Texas. Of all the millions of people who have ever lived in Texas, we have just 200 martyrs. Those are the contingent of volunteers who perished at The Alamo. Their battle was hopeless, but holding Santa Anna in San Antonio for thirteen days gave other forces the time to organize and therefore prevail over the Mexican Army at San Jacinto. Today, the Alamo is a shrine, the curators there will brook no disrespect, just ask Ozzy Osbourne.
No, shaheeds are not martyrs. They are more like fodder; a cheap WMD. They are ammunition. How do we get this message across to people who have been brainwashed since childhood (see Obsession) to believe that this is somehow an honorable way to die?
.
I just love muslim tolerance
Why We Rarely Hear from Moderate Muslims
http://littlegreenfootballs.com/...te_Muslims&
only
http://tinyurl.com/y4nlda
November 27, 2006
Bob | 11.27.06 - 6:45 pm |
great find bg!!
P2 | 11.28.06 - 5:05 am |
thanks & apologies P2.. but the find was
Bob's (posted things in the wrong order)..
==
great posts everyone.. 
==
mi·li·tia audio (m-lsh) KEY
NOUN:
1. An army composed of ordinary citizens rather than professional soldiers.
2. A military force that is not part of a regular army and is subject to call for service in an emergency.
3. The whole body of physically fit civilians eligible by law for military service.
ar·my audio (ärm) KEY
NOUN:
pl. ar·mies
1.
1. A large body of people organized and trained for land warfare.
2. often Army The entire military land forces of a country.
3. A tactical and administrative military unit consisting of a headquarters, two or more corps, and auxiliary forces.
2. A large group of people organized for a specific cause: the construction army that built the Panama Canal.
3. A multitude; a host: An army of waiters served at the banquet. See Synonyms at multitude.
While not specifically stated, it is understood that militias operate as the extension of a government. They do so at the bequest of that government. So logically, the government can decide which militia is a real militia and which militia is nothing more then a criminal gang.
Calling Mookies army a militia is errornous. It should be called Sadars gang. Calling it a militia would make as much sense as calling the Crips or the Gangester Disciples militias.
I am a member of the Alabama State Militia. I have a appointment to the Militia, that has been signed and sealed by the Governor of the State of Alabama. Properly witnessed by the Adjutant General. I am subjct to call up at the Governors descretion.
ANYBODY can claim to be militia, but without that paper, they are just another armed and dangerous criminal.
"A man-of-war is the best ambassador."
-Oliver Cromwell
Again, Fahdi, I don't know what third world toilet you call home, you've never said.
Us thinking people don't need the word of politicians to reach our conclusions.
I'm looking at the evidence around me boy and that evidence points quite clearly to Islam as the source of the world wide conflict.
Unlike the politicians, especially the Euroweenies, I don't have to worry about Poltical Correctness, I can say what I think and I think Islam is trying to kill us all.
Fahdi I'll give you yet another example: I have yet to encounter anyone who thinks that throwing those six imams off the plane was wrong. Everyone I've talked to about this incident agrees, they appeared as a threat and what happened was appropriate.
yet my government will investigate the airlines for discrimination. How stupid is that?
so rant and rave all you want fool, every day the evidence grows that Islam is out of control and on its way to starting a global conflict that will kill millions. Should we thank them for that Fadhi? or just sit on our asses and hope it ain't us that dies?
And oh, I am just so, so, well bereft, Ash has sniveled in my general direction. he called me an "immoral extremist" and I'm devastated. How ever will my self image recover?
What a tool you are Ash. What morality are you fucking talking about? The morality that leads a sextagenarian grandmother on a suicide mission against the IDF? The morality that uses teenaged boys to carry weapons and ammunition for Al Quaeda in Iraq? The morality that stations missle launchers on apartment buildings? The morality that fabricates complete lies for consumption by both the Arabs and the westerners? The morality that says: "We worship death and they worship life so that is what we will take from them"? The morality that launches unguided missles at civilian population centers in the hopes that some non combattant will die? The Morality that makes tiny explosive vests for infants so that they grow up to become suicide bombers? the morality that says Israel should be wiped off the map? The morality that calls everyone who isn't a muslim and infidel, or a pig or a dog?
don't hand me that namby pamby morality crap Ash. Your agenda is patent: forcing the west to play by your sick rules means sure defeat. Since you want us to be defeated you'll keep raising this psuedo morality as a way of limiting OUR options while our enemy shows no such restraint.
I've said it before, I'll say it again, the muslims want war and they will die. Their men, their women and their children. It's not a question of morality at this point Ash, it's a question of survival. you've already surrendered but I haven't. Neither have many of the commenters here.
We are slowly but surely being forced into a kill or be killed scenario.
Tell us Ash, where can we go to read your comments criticizing the muslims for their behavior? What website do you visit to complain about the role of Islamic radicals in this conflict? It seems to me that if there is a lack of morality here its on your part, not mine. You are demanding that we simply surrender and suffer the consequences.
shove your white flag up your ass.
"then he's really pushing the limits.
Foddy"
Which is a different thing from being wrong. Besides, at least MD doesn't squat to pee, like german males do. If they had the proper size testes then they wouldn't squat. Foddy, like 99.9% of euros, you are a coward. That will not save you.
-Stehpinkeln
"In war there is no substitute for victory."
- Gen Douglas MacArthur
Here's an interesting analysis of the situation in France. It seems that muslim bad boys are now burning people alive in busses.
Aren't they just the nicest people? don't you want just share an airplane with these wonderful guys?
http://www.theweeklystandard.com...5cjsub.asp?
pg=2
but oh no says Fahdi, the muslims aren't at war with us because the politicians haven't said so. Oh really?
What do the muslims say? If actions speak louder than words, it seems they are saying "Death to the infidels and anybody else we can get our hands on!"
It will be interesting to see how this plays out in France. One solution would be to pack up these bad men and their Imams and ship them to Sod country. that would solve France's problem, right?
OT..
Religious freedom 'essential', Pope tells Turks
Pope supports EU membership, Turkish leader says
==
Ash | 11.28.06 - 9:59 am |
not to worry MD.. those of us who possess an iota of comprehensive skills, and/or, are capable of reading
in context.. know where you're theoretical proposals
were coming from vs your accusers..
==
One War
http://
corner.nationalreview.com...zY1NDllNTgxN2Y=
http://tinyurl.com/ybocox
November 28, 2006
excerpt:
[A senior American intelligence official said Monday that Hizballah in Lebanon had been training 1,000 to 2,000 members of the Mahdi Army, the Iraqi Shiite militia led by Moktada al-Sadr. A small number of Hizballah operatives have also visited Iraq to help with training. Iran has facilitated the link between Hizballah and the Shiite militias in Iraq, and Syrian officials have also cooperated.
The new American account is consistent with a claim made in Iraq this summer by a mid-level Mahdi commander, who said his militia had sent 300 fighters to Lebanon, ostensibly to fight alongside Hezbollah. “They are the best-trained fighters in the Mahdi Army,” he said, speaking on condition of anonymity.]
==
Anthem boy, and any others making similar comments, while I agree with your sentiment, I am also damn sure people have been *praying* over the safety and progress of things in Iraq on both sides since it started. When riots broke out in LA one year, 99% of the population was "praying" for it to stop, while 1% where burning down parts of the city. Iraq's situation is no different. Success and progress come, as someone else said, from realizing that the "people" must be the government and doing something to actively prevent this kind of crap. When you sit around "praying" for someone else to fix a forest fire, it will eventually end, but only after their isn't a forest left to burn down. Sadly, some idiots will still insist that prayers where responsible to stopping it. In this case, the situation is worse, because *both* sides can claim that "prayer" helped them. If Iraq is left a wasteland of death with the Islamists over it, then their "prayers" can be claimed to be responsible, same if, after a long span of bloodshed some people stand of and say "enough". All the "believers" have to do is proclaim that those people did so because "God" wanted it to happen.
I know all you can do, not being in Iraq, is pray. It comforts you and gives you the sense you are doing something. I am fine with that. But the problem is, the same belief that they are "doing something" lies in the minds of ever victim over there. I have always wondered, when less than a hundred rioters in LA managed to hold tens of thousands of people hostage to fear, what would have happened if those tens of thousands had stood out on the street and told the rioters as they got there, "Go home! We don't want this crap here!" Some Iraqi seem to be waking up to the reality that this is the only way to stop it. The rest.. Are hostages to fear and sit around "praying" for something to happen. The problem... There isn't one scrap of evidence to suggest that the result will be the one *they* want or that either sides prayers are doing anything but blinding them to the truth, one side by driving them to insane murder, and the other side to becoming automatic victims.
This is simple truth, no matter why you find to pray. If both sides claim its helping them, then "logically" the only conclusion to who is right must be in who wins. And that path leads to madness and horrors.
Iraqis don`t need more foreign troops.They need only to settle things in their own way.Fighters like Abu`l Walid were the best option.Only they weren`t allowed to complete the job.Islamist terrorists,Ba`thists,and their supporters ,in view of the beastly and abominable atrocities they commit everyday,shall not come to reason any moment.Only by utmost resort to firmness and resolution in the Iraqi way will these thugs and beasts be defeated.Calls for compromise and reconciliation will bring nothing.
marine dad, I have, on numerous occasions, stated how the suicide jihadists are immoral. They are. So are you. You have repeatedly advocated collective punishment of all Muslims based on the actions of some of them. You have repeatedly advocated wiping out whole cities in order 'to win'. You have repeatedly stated that it is legitimate in your eyes to target women and children in order 'to win'.
These are you views are they not? Are you prepared to say they are not your opinions? No, you have never stated such, in fact you state quite the opposite. Like I said before you are just as immoral as the suicide jihadist. You care not whether innocents are killed, in fact you urge it, because you are afraid to not do so will require you to "surrender" to "raise the white flag". This is simply not true, we invaded and occupied Iraq, if we should withdraw you will not have to submit to Islamic rule in America. Not even close to it. America is not fighting a defensive war risking its existence.
bg, your comprehension skills have been noted before and apparently they are still as poor as ever. Would you like more links to marine dad's immoral ravings?
Now, if we could just get the fake news sources in Iraq to shout something at the end......
.
Kafir | 11.28.06 - 10:33 am |
How about Allahu Akbar? Then we'd know for sure.
Islam is a unifying political structure. It was created for that purpose. The concept that religion can be apolitical or secular is absurd. Religion IS a political structure and always has been. The same is true for Christianity. And personally, I don’t fault Muslims for seeking a unifying political structure that advances their people and their culture. Islam will never be completely compatible with Christianity, nor should it be. I just wish it was more competitive.
Saddam should have been dealt with by the Muslims themselves. They failed to take obvious corrective steps necessary to remove a malignant despotic ruler from power. And justifiably they are embarrassed that an advanced Christian nation injected the necessary military power in their part of the world that so easily removed him. The response of Islam has been to play the role of spoiler. Islam sought chaos in Iraq because the precedent of Christian superiority was too much for their leadership to accept.
The power of Islam can be clearly seen in the presentation of suicide bombers. Some people may call it terrorism, but I look at it as Islam flexing its muscle. Essentially, it is a desert people demonstrating their willingness to sacrifice their lives for unity. And that is the reason they are not ashamed of Muslim suicide bombers. In fact, for many it is a source of Muslim pride that some followers have such devotion to the Ummah.
However, other than for the purposes of unity, there is no reason to believe that Gabriel spoke to a caravan thief. It was a poorly reconstructed myth refined to organize desert nomads. The Koran was created by Uthman in the 7th century and secretly revised in the 9th century. Absolute obedience is demanded then as now. Heresy is still punishable by death in many Muslim countries. Divergence from group lockstep thought is shunned. Very few survive disobedience. Such levels of intolerance will become obsolete in the global community. Almost all peaceful decent has some merit.
We Americans have been unmindful of the pride of Islam. In fact, we have rudely challenged it. We have sought to manage the reconstruction of Iraq as though their religious political structure did not exist. That was our mistake. And we are being reminded of that every day by the chaos that Islam deliberately manifests.
Only a damned fool would think Islam will be compatible with western culture. Conflict will continue to present itself over the years as an overpopulated, uneducated Middle East devours its last resources. Unfortunately it is a conflict that will most likely die with a sorrowful whimper rather than an explosive exchange. Remorseful followers of the caravan thief will shudder their last thoughts of what could have been, rather than what will be. I have no doubt that Islam will never accept blame for its failures. Irrational as such lack of accountability may be there is no further abrogation allowed for the Koran. Those who imagine otherwise are doomed to disappointment.
I don’t believe we Americans can change the fate of the Middle East, though I believe it was a noble effort to have tried.
How can you tell Shia from Sunni? If you just tell the bad guy whatever he wants to hear can't you pass?
Mark Auman | 11.27.06 - 6:44 pm |
--------------
Mark Auman | 11.27.06 - 6:44 pm |
Ahh, but there's the rub. He can also pass, so since you won't know whether he's Shia or Sunni, how can you answer correctly?
If the brothers' uncle is Sunni and his wife is Shia what are their children?
.
Kafir | 11.28.06 - 10:14 am
-------------------------
There was a discussion about that on a previous thread. Apparently each sect has distinguishable names. All that would have to happen is for the thugs to demand to see the poor fool's ID, and that would give it away.
Gun Control
Whether you agree or not, it's an interesting lesson in history. Something to think about...
------------------------------
In 1929, the Soviet Union established gun control. From 1929 to 1953, about 20 million dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
------------------------------
In 1911, Turkey established gun control. From 1915 to 1917, 1.5 million Armenians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
------------------------------
Germany established gun control in 1938 and from 1939 to 1945, a total of 13 million Jews and others who were unable to defend themselves were rounded up and exterminated.
------------------------------
China established gun control in 1935. From 1948 to 1952, 20 million political dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
------------------------------
Guatemala established gun control in 1964. From 1964 to 1981, 100,000 Mayan Indians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
------------------------------
Uganda established gun control in 1970 From 1971 to 1979, 300,000 Christians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
------------------------------
Cambodia established gun control in 1956. From 1975 to 1977, one million 'educated' people, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
-----------------------------
Defenseless people rounded up and exterminated in the 20th Century because of gun control: 56 million.
------------------------------
It has now been 12 months since gun owners in Australia were forced by new law to surrender 640,381 personal firearms to be destroyed by their own government, a program costing Australia taxpayers more than $500 million dollars. The first year results are now in:
Australia-wide, homicides are up 3.2 percent
Australia-wide, assaults are up 8.6 percent
Australia-wide, armed robberies are up 44 percent
In the state of Victoria alone, homicides with firearms are now up 300 percent. (Note that while the law-abiding citizens turned them in, the criminals did not, and criminals still possess their guns!)
While figures over the previous 25 years showed a steady decrease in armed robbery with firearms, this has changed drastically upward in the past 12 months, since criminals now are guaranteed that their prey is unarmed.
There has also been a dramatic increase in break-ins and assaults of the ELDERLY. Australian politicians are at a loss to explain how public safety has decreased, after such monumental effort and expense was expended in successfully ridding Australian society of guns. The Australian experience and the other historical facts above prove it. You won't see this data on the American evening news or hear our president, governors or other politicians disseminating this information. Guns in the hands of honest citizens save lives and property and, yes, gun-control laws affect only the law-abiding citizens.
The next time someone talks in favor of gun control, please remind them of this history lesson. With guns, we are 'citizens'. Without them, we are 'subjects'
* an email from my father-in-law, a WW2 vet.
Ash | 11.28.06 - 1:37 pm |
you're entitled to your opinion/s about me.. however, i worry about your obsessive need to repeat them over & over again
ad nauseum.. either an indicative sign that you are insecure regarding you're convictions.. or you believe by consistantly putting me down, you are somehow lifted up.. whichever it is,
i wish you luck in getting a handle on you're OCD problem..
==
Oh and now we get the words of the immortal Adnan Pachachi. Whine, whine, snivel, snivel, "its a collective punishment"
What nonsense Ash, utter pointless nonsense. You have no specific responses so you just throw out general purpose apply anywhere bullshit.
Spare us that, OK.
yes, Ash it is legitimate to target women and children. both are clearly assisting in the war against us as clearly illustrated in the examples provided to you earlier.
When Granny straps on a vest should we let her kill a few of our guys because your tender sensibilities don't extend to killing suicidal maniacs that just happen to be female?
When a young boy pours gasoline over the still alive person of a black water security agent and ignites it should we let that go because your oh so inflated sense of "right and wrong" doesn't extend to killing a teenager?
I've always maintained this same position: its a question of how much of our "morality" we need to shed in order to save our civilization. Was incinerating Hiroshima an immoral act Ash?
If we can whip this threat without resorting to truly terrible choices, let's do it. but if we can't we'll kill with a vengeance until our enemy sues for peace. right now the muslims are acting like they're not going to stop until they force us into some ugly choices. There is no "perfect" way to get those who want war to change their minds.
We're not the problem, despite what you think. Muslim anger isn't a function of a failure to properly discharge the white man's burden in the Middle East. That anger is their's, not our's. We didn't start this fight but we'll either finish it or die trying.
That's not morality as you define it Ash, that's history and human nature. If you find that offensive may I suggest that you simply throw yourself out of a window and leave the rest of us to muddle on?
peace out pussy.
And yeah, I did pray for you, and Saudi too.
Oh puhleeeze Ash and Foddy, neither of you have the right to claim PC superiority. MD is willing to discuss whatever it takes to keep the Muslim lemmings from herding themselves over the distant cliff. You two idiots, with your “over the horizon” PC BS beliefs won’t even recognize the cliff, let alone do anything to turn the Muslim herd. If anyone thinks Gilbert’s Lancet study numbers are shocking, then they just don’t have the insight to recognize what is coming. I am not talking about the tiny little war between Baathist Sunni and Shia in Iraq. True ME hell is a century away and the Muslim herd shows no sign of turning away from that cliff.
Kagehi | 11.28.06 - 1:31 pm |
the only ones who are praying for "prayer" to accomplish
their mission for them are the Islamic Fascist terrorists..
==
Kris, it happened during the hurricanes. We had martial law and curfews. People looking out for each other.
Lisa | 11.27.06 - 8:07 pm | #
Dagney thinks citizens having to fight against organized militias, including in some cases local police is a good thing. Lisa, your comparison of what is happening in Baghdad to what happened here during Katrina confirms my original opinion of you. BG's neice, right?
yes, as was ours, wonder how we ever managed to survive w/o all that help??==
bg | 11.27.06 - 8:28 pm | #
As usual bg, your comment makes no sense.
Kris is whining about providing security, but she missed the point. It's not about providing security, its about having a monopoly on the use of violence. Security results when the group that holds such a monopoly is responsive to the population at large.
mariniedad
Very funny marine dad since I was the first commenter here from the early days calling for all militias to be outlawed, when at the same time you and all your friends were holloring for Iraqi citizens to form their own neighborhood militia's. So, as always, you assign some position or statement that has no basis in reality to me (or sod, foddy, ash, etc) so that you can put up your bigoted rant of the day. You've become so predictable I normally scroll your comments these days, so its good to put my name in the post so I can catch it as I scroll by if you're wanting my attention.
If moron dad is more extreme than Rush, then he's really pushing the limits.
Foddy | Homepage | 11.28.06 - 8:45 am | #
He's not the only one here to the right of Rush. The number here matching that description is large. This is where they gather.
*
Another must read account of the last four days in Baghdad -
http://healingiraq.blogspot.com/
...454273430101928
Kagehi | 11.28.06 - 1:31 pm |
the only ones who are praying for "prayer" to accomplish
their mission for them are the Islamic Fascist terrorists..
==
bg | 11.28.06 - 3:07 pm |
correction, hit post instead of preview..
the only ones who are counting on "prayer" to accomplish
their mission for them are the Islamic Fascist terrorists..
==
bg, here is a challenge for you - spin these two comments one each from Marine Dad and Tiny Sails and tell me how they really mean well, that they are not looking to exact collective punishment. Remember now there are about 1.2 billion muslims alive today:
marind dad wrote:
"I've always maintained this same position: its a question of how much of our "morality" we need to shed in order to save our civilization. Was incinerating Hiroshima an immoral act Ash?
If we can whip this threat without resorting to truly terrible choices, let's do it. but if we can't we'll kill with a vengeance until our enemy sues for peace. right now the muslims are acting like they're not going to stop until they force us into some ugly choices. There is no "perfect" way to get those who want war to change their minds.
We're not the problem, despite what you think. Muslim anger isn't a function of a failure to properly discharge the white man's burden in the Middle East. That anger is their's, not our's. We didn't start this fight but we'll either finish it or die trying."
See bg, marine dad even realizes, probably only subconsciously that what he writes is immoral when he says "its a question of how much of our "morality" we need to shed" He explicitily state he is "shedding immorality" yet he yammers on as if he were some moral person acting as Christ thinks one should.
tiny sails wrote:
"MD is willing to discuss whatever it takes to keep the Muslim lemmings from herding themselves over the distant cliff. You two idiots, with your “over the horizon” PC BS beliefs won’t even recognize the cliff, let alone do anything to turn the Muslim herd. If anyone thinks Gilbert’s Lancet study numbers are shocking, then they just don’t have the insight to recognize what is coming."
now bg, please use those great skills of yours and tell us all how these two guys are really just nice guys with their head screwed on straight trying to do the right thing.
We currently spend ~2.7% of our GDP on our military. Under Regan we spent ~4.5% and had an 11 Division Army. What is this nonsense about needing a draft? Up the military budget, up the recruiting targets and the patriots will come.
The ONLY reason to implement the draft is to destroy our armed services. How on earth would we pay for 11 million 18 – 22 year olds under arms? The entire idea is absurd.
On the real meat of this post: arm your local neighborhood watch. Declare your borders, and then talk to the neighbors of your neighbors to bring them under your umbrella. When the Saderists come, respond. In mass. Find an open area to drill and practice. Get deputized by a local Sheriff. Hell. ELECT a sheriff if you don’t have one. But above all do not respect the rule of the self appointed tyrants.
And if Maliki is serious he will declare Martial Law and *stop* those responsible for the ethnic cleansing.
Our hopes are with you and all Iraqis.
No ma'am I don't recall advocating on behalf of militias. Further, outlawing them is a meaningless gesture, something that America's left has perfected.
Sadly what has to happen now is killing the militias, in large numbers. Killing many, arresting still more.
Kris, these militias are no doubt already "illegal" so what's your point?
And if stating clearly what I'm seeing is bigotry, perhaps you'd care to share your PC definition of the word. It ain't bigotry if its true honey and looking at Islam right now it is my considered opinion that we face a major threat. Failing to recognize that because facing the truth offends your oh so delicate sensibilities will get us all killed.
You don't like my posts, baby cakes, don't fucking read them. I'm not commenting as anonymous, I'm telling it just as it is. Lots of people don't like it because they, like you, are stuck in a PC driven world of denial. The same denial that allowed the people of the late 1930's to ignore the growing threat that was the axis.
If sharing the endless parade of stories about islam's depravities is bigotry, well that's too bleeping bad.
Yup, that's me, fearmongering, war mongering monger mongering bigot.
but you know Kris, such as I am my soul is ready, how's yours?
tiny sails, "It has now been 12 months since gun owners in Australia were forced by new law to surrender 640,381 personal firearms to be destroyed by their own government"
Please stop spreading urban legends. Read this:
http://www.snopes.com/crime/stat...ics/
ausguns.asp
and go and have a look at the ABS statistics for yourself. Banning guns in Australia didn't cause a damn thing to change, except that we haven't had one of those mass murder thingos since.
Kagehi, "Sadly, some idiots will still insist that prayers where responsible to stopping it."
The worst thing is people who pray for their abducted children to be rescued, and then credit God with returning him, meaning that the others didn't pray hard enough, or God didn't care about their children.
People should work on the well-established fact that praying doesn't influence reality one iota and that they would make much better use of their time trying to improve the world themselves.
Ash, "marine dad, I have, on numerous occasions, stated how the suicide jihadists are immoral."
Then what are you going to do about them?
"You have repeatedly advocated collective punishment of all Muslims based on the actions of some of them."
No, it is based on what they are doing by calling themselves a "Muslim". If they are spreading this dangerous book, the Qur'an, as the word of God, then they are a threat to the free world, and need to be dealt with. If they are indoctrinating children with hatred, they need to be dealt with. Unless Muslims explicitly reject the Qur'an as being the word of God, they are a threat to the free world. Only one sect rejects the Qur'an as the word of God, and that is the Mu'tazilah, which put the brain above the Qur'an. Either Muslims convert to Mu'tazilah, or they must die. It's that simple.
Ash | 11.28.06 - 4:54 pm |
read and learn so you can figure out for yourself
where you're morality quotient goes astray Ash..
"On Moral Equivalency and Cold War History"
http://www.mtholyoke.edu/acad/in...trel/
gaddis.htm
http://tinyurl.com/yj98fk
Ethics & International Affairs, Volume 10 (1996)
same applies today, and in
many aspects even moreso..
ps: i will not be responding to questions re: any of your cherry
picking, taken out of context quotations from he article.. now go
ahead, enjoy demeaning me for that too, you're opinions of me
take no skin off my back..
==
tiny sails, "Saddam should have been dealt with by the Muslims themselves. They failed to take obvious corrective steps necessary to remove a malignant despotic ruler from power."
Who exactly was supposed to do this? It is TECHNICALLY IMPOSSIBLE for citizens to overthrow a properly organized modern military. But for your amusement, the Iraqis tried just that in 1991. And 100,000 died because Bush snr had been raised on the same fairy tales of "glorious revolution" that the rest of America has been raised on. 100,000. For nothing. Count them. All because of American folklore. The same folklore that makes you think that US citizens armed with peashooters are able to take on the US military armed with JDAMs. You Americans are as bad as the Arabs, the way you live in your fantasy world.
bg, no moral equivalency claims were made. I pulled sections out of their quotes to exlemplify my point. There is no need to repost the whole darn thing here because the rest of the post does not change the lines stated on iota and the whole post is just up the page for all of you to read. Your standard line here about 'context' does nothing to mitigate the immorality of their claims, their desire to commit genocide. Why do you feel it so important to defend such odious ideas? bg, Do you really believe that if the Islamic radicals don't shape up it will be necessary to kill all Muslims? Why defend such tripe? You should attack it. There is no moral equivalence suggested here - maybe you should start by looking up the meaning of the word "equivalence".
Paul, you ask what am I going to do about the Islamic Radicals? I'll continue advocating what I think should and shouldn't be done and I'll keep my eyes peeled for any 'nefarious activity' in my neighborhood. How about you, what do you plan on doing about those Islamic Radicals?
And 100,000 died because Bush snr had been raised on the same fairy tales of "glorious revolution" that the rest of America has been raised on. 100,000. For nothing.
This is exactly why I think it is horrific that the Counter-Revolutionary 'Realist' school is back in the mix. Baker screwed over the Iraqis before. In many ways this whole thing is a direct result of the inconclusive end of the Kuwait war. Why are we listening to this dim bulb again?
See bg, marine dad even realizes, probably only subconsciously that what he writes is immoral when he says "its a question of how much of our "morality" we need to shed" He explicitily state he is "shedding immorality" yet he yammers on as if he were some moral person acting as Christ thinks one should.
Ash | 11.28.06 - 4:54 pm |
Is It Right to Fight?
http://www.johnankerburg.com/Art...ry/
TD3W0503.pdf
http://tinyurl.com/ydn3lb
excerpts:
[One other point, if everyone was a pacifist except the evil and lawbreakers of the world, then the world would be run by evil dictators or our society would be anarchy. Pacifism in its fullest sense is untenable in the sinful world in which we live.]
[The subject “Is it right to fight?” is a difficult issue because it makes us face the awful issues of a suppressive dictatorship, evil aggression, killing and death on the one hand and the “necessary evil” of war to stop it. Could this be the reason that General Robert E. Lee at the Battle of Fredericksburg said, “It is well that war is so terrible—we should grow too fond of it.” The just war position, in the writer’s opinion, fits best with the Scriptural evidence.
Remember, it is possible to love your enemies and use force against him. The principle that love is embraced in laws of justice helps us see that loving one’s enemy is to make sure that justice prevails. In doing so, the Christian is also demonstrating “love for the ones his enemy has hurt.”19]
==
One last comment and then I have to hit the road:
Ash, first of all let me just say that I don't worry over much about your opinion of me. you make an interesting foil, just as Fahdi and Soddie make interesting foils. by using your words I can demonstrate the vacuous depravity of the left's arguments.
next, define "moral" for us, OK? Tell us what you think this means. don't beat around the bush, just state in unequivocal terms. I sincerely doubt you can.
Two other things. first my personal POV is simple: better a live hypocrit than a dead infidel. If adhereing to your unstated moral standards results in the death of me and mine, screw it. So Ash, define it and defend it.
next, it is my considered opinion that we in America build monuments to our fighters not only to honor their bravery but to recognize the sad fact that they surrendered some of their humanity so that we could carry on.
the warriors that I have encountered were scarred for life by combat. Few of them came away from their war experiences with a deep seated desire to engage in such actions again.
Wars are ugly Ash, defeat is even uglier. Are we shedding our civility? yes we are. I raise the issue of hiroshima for a specific reason. It's a decision that will be discussed for many more generations. It's a lightning rod for debate about how wars should be fought and what it actually takes to win one.
You, of course, chose not to respond to that. Instead you engaged in a personal attack. This says much about you lack of substance Ash. These are tough decisions and it is clear to me that you lack the intestinal fortitude to make them.
finally Ash, your pusilanimous response re: jihadis very clearly demonstrates the side you've chosen in this conflict.
As I've said before, you are the enemy.
“It’s stunning; it should have been called a civil war a long time ago, but now I don’t see how people can avoid calling it a civil war,” said Nicholas Sambanis, a political scientist at Yale who co-edited “Understanding Civil War: Evidence and Analysis,“ published by the World Bank in 2005. “The level of violence is so extreme that it far surpasses most civil wars since 1945.”
Civil war it is.
i am to tired to join the deabte tonight. have fun without me.
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/11/2...gewanted=2&
_r=2
and go and have a look at the ABS statistics for yourself. Banning guns in Australia didn't cause a damn thing to change, except that we haven't had one of those mass murder thingos since.
thank s for that link Paul!
http://www.snopes.com/crime/stat...ics/
ausguns.asp
Ash, "Paul, you ask what am I going to do about the Islamic Radicals? I'll continue advocating what I think should and shouldn't be done and I'll keep my eyes peeled for any 'nefarious activity' in my neighborhood."
Fat lot of good that will do. No-one spotted the 9/11 plotters either. No-one spotted that guy who opened fire on that Jewish cultural centre etc etc. You don't have a solution Ash, you're just setting yourself up for more of the same.
"How about you, what do you plan on doing about those Islamic Radicals?"
I don't just plan, I've already done it. I went to the heart of the problem. To find out what was different between them and us, and determined what was causing the threat. The main thing causing the threat is a belief that the Qur'an is the word of God. In more general terms, it is belief in ANY DOGMA that is a threat to the free world, which is run by science/rationalism. The Qur'an is a particularly odious dogma. Communism was also a very bad dogma. The dogma of the "self-evident" "right" to "bear arms" kills a lot of people too, but at least the people who proclaimed that particular dogma didn't say it was the immutable word of God.
So anyway, I'm doing everything I can to tear down dogma and replace it with rationalism. More precisely, I'm doing everything I can to promote rationalism, humanism and anti-subjugation. I've even gone so far as to try to reform Islam, because evidently no-one else seemed to understand what needed to be done.
If there's something I haven't done to take out this threat, I'm not aware of it. I've done everything I can think of. What shocks me is that half the world wasn't doing the same thing I did, and am doing.
Michael in Colorado | 11.28.06 - 5:38 pm |
from what i can gather, Bush doesn't seem to be listening
to them.. it's the MSM speculations running amok again..
Bush rules out talks with Iran until it stops its nuclear program
http://www.ncr-iran.org/content/...t/view/2555/71/
http://tinyurl.com/y982kw
November 28, 2006
"Nothing less than victory" in Iraq
http://www.fox21.com/Global/stor...740097&
nav=2KPp
http://tinyurl.com/y74pq9
November 28, 2006
==
bg
"not to worry MD.. those of us who possess an iota of comprehensive skills, and/or, are capable of reading
in context.. know where you're theoretical proposals were coming from vs your accusers.."
Again more irony from bg, who professes "an iota of comprehensive skills" but can't spell or punctuate or write a grammatical sentence herself! Perfect example above.
Yes, I know where MD's proposals were coming from too: the orifice proctologists are most familiar with.
Paul Edwards
"Nevertheless, Bush said "we are at war with the Islamic fascists". He kept that to himself for years, but eventually said it."
Yes, indeed he did, but in the very same speech he reiterated that the US was now safer than before Sept 11th, so clearly he doesn't view the "war" as of any great threat.
marine dad
"Here's an interesting analysis of the situation in France. It seems that muslim bad boys are now burning people alive in busses."
Did you READ that article, moron dad? Pretty clearly not, if that's your conclusion! Here's an extract: "It remains to be seen whether the attackers in Marseille--six suspects have been arrested--were just teenagers perpetrating a copycat crime, or if they were connected with a network." And if they did belong to a "network" it could be that the network was local French youths or other immigrant gangs, who participate in "drugs, alcohol, sexual promiscuity, easy money from crime", hardly Islamic virtues.
NOTHING in that article states that the attacks on buses were carried out by Muslims, moron dad.
It's just more of your desperate scare-mongering.
yes, yes, fahdi, continue to apologize for the people trying to destroy our civilization. that is, after all, how you earn a living, N'est ce pas?
FodWad,
"drugs, alcohol, sexual promiscuity, easy money from crime", hardly Islamic virtues.
Drugs: Drug use is on the rise in Tehran, Arabs have used opiates through out history,
Alcohol: Bars and night clubs are thick in Jordan and Lebanon. All of the 9/11 hijackers frequented bars and strip clubs, which brings me to...
Sexual Promiscuity: From P2's linked article, 300,000 prostitures in Tehran alone, let alone all the others in Bahrain and Jordan. You know most of their clients are Arab men.
Easy money from crime: Poppy growers in Afghanistan, money laundering to finance terrorists just to name a few.
Foddy, you really need to do a little research before you make an absurd statement.
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NOTHING in that article states that the attacks on buses were carried out by Muslims, moron dad.
foddy | 11.28.06 - 8:39 pm |
Fiery riots spread beyond Paris
http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/eu...iots/
index.html
http://tinyurl.com/bnod2
November 4, 2005
The 751 No-Go Zones of France
http://www.danielpipes.org/blog/709
http://tinyurl.com/y4vtcr
November 14, 2006
French police the target in urban guerrilla war
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/
20061...rance_police_dc
http://tinyurl.com/yzokre
November 27, 2006
connect the dots..
==
Burly
I don't believe it! Yet another person is commenting on the article moron dad referred to, without having READ it!
I quote:
"A complex relationship seems to have arisen between these two power centers. On the one hand, the fundamentalists intended to protect the immigrant community against everything the gangs stood for: drugs, alcohol, sexual promiscuity, easy money from crime."
In other words, the fundamentalists oppose those activities, which you would have found out, if you'd bothered to read the article.
I entirely stand by what I said. Drug-taking, alcohol, sexual promiscuity and crime are not regarded as virtues in Islam. I would be interested if you can find evidence to the contrary.
Instead of doing so, you contented yourself with listing up examples of Muslims who indulge in the listed activities.
This is hardly news. As I myself mentioned in a post 3 topics ago, Iran has a huge drug problem. It's no secret that there are prostitutes in some Muslim countries (but hardly promiscuity as we would understand it), and I agree that alcohol is available in some of the less strict Muslim countries (but very little alcoholism).
As for profiting from crime by growing opium poppies in Afghanistan, the vast majority of those involved make little more than a subsistence wage, and this is done entirely with the knowledge of the US government, so it is hardly a point in your favour!
From the Christian Science Monitor recently:
"It's time for the US and its allies to face up to historical responsibilities by attacking the root of current violence and war in Afghanistan: the alarming resurgence of the Afghan opium trade.
Violence and insurgency, copying the suicide bombings and other desperate tactics seen in Iraq, are financed by the drug lords and traders who profit from the record production and traffic in opium and its most dangerous by-product, heroin.
Antonio Maria Costa, who directs the UN's anticrime and antinarcotics agency, UNDOC, has just provided stark details of a new UN report. Opium poppy cultivation, processing, and transport have become Afghanistan's top employers, its main source of capital, and the principal base of its economy."
http://tinyurl.com/yd76xd
Hey Mohammed
Have you come across this story in the last couple of weeks?
http://mannyishere.blogspot.com/...ing-
cooked.html
I guess it might help if I had spelled "educattion" correctly in my comment above! 
Louise | 11.28.06 - 2:01 pm |
I'm thinking Ali Baba Bouie.
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Burly | 11.28.06 - 9:35 pm |
You've hit the nail on the head there, Burly. Repressive regimes like Islamic fascism like to fool themselves into believing that they have control over such things. We in the West learned long ago that, at best, all they succeed in doing is driving the problem underground where it can be conveniently ignored.
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Burly | 11.28.06 - 9:35 pm |
You've hit the nail on the head there, Burly. Repressive regimes like Islamic fascism like to fool themselves into believing that they have control over such things. We in the West learned long ago that, at best, all they succeed in doing is driving the problem underground where it can be conveniently ignored.
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foddy | 11.29.06 - 12:25 am |
Drug-taking, alcohol, sexual promiscuity and crime are not regarded as virtues in Islam.
Neither are they virtues in Christianity or Judaism. However, apparently in Islam killing anyone who doesn't agree with you is A-OK. That's the Islamic "virtue" we've got a problem with.
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marine dad wrote (I kid you not!)
"You, of course, chose not to respond to that. Instead you engaged in a personal attack. This says much about you lack of substance Ash."
hehehehahahaHEHEHEHAHAHABWAAAHAAAHAAA!!!!
That is so ripe coming from you marine *master of the ad hominem attack* dad. Frued would have a field day with the self loathing you present seemingly without your own knowledge! Maybe you are some smart person who has created a caricature of a pro-war person just to portray yourself foolishly. hehehe -- "personal attack = lack of substance" HAHAHAHAHA!
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