The expression is in Megillat Taanis -
Ch. 12 ובמנלת תענית(פי״ב): ולמה כתבוה מפני שאין למודים בצרות ואין הצרות מצויות לבוא עליהם, אבל בזמן הזה שהם למודים בצרות והצרות באות עליהם , אם היו כל הימים דיו וכל האגמים קולמיםים וכל בני ארם לבלרין, אינם מספיקים לכתוב הצרות הבאות עליהם בכל שנה ושנה.
and many other places, is it the poetry specifically you refer to?
Also in a Midrash "Gan Eden" about R YBZ:
http://books.google.com/books?id...s_brr=1&
pg=PA84
Sorry ADN - http://books.google.com/books?id...s_brr=1&
pg=PA81
1. "Even if we double the ink supply" - LOL! Either this line reflects the world's worst translator, or the world's most business-like poet.
2. Can we not conclude that the phrase is simply a generic type of peon that has existed in world literature for millenia?
3. You have to censor the langauge in "songs for gentlemen". (wink-and-gunpoint.)
>1. "Even if we double the ink supply" - LOL! Either this line reflects the world's worst translator, or the world's most business-like poet.
Haha. I just picked a random translation.
Here are some other random ones:
- SAY: Should the sea become ink, to write the words of my Lord, the sea would surely fail ere the words of my Lord would fail, though we brought its like in aid.
- Say, 'Were the sea ink for the words of my Lord, the sea would surely fail before the words of my Lord fail; aye, though we brought as much ink again!'
- Say: Though the sea became ink for the Words of my Lord, verily the sea would be used up before the words of my Lord were exhausted, even though We brought the like thereof to help.
and here's a transliteration:
Qul law kana albahru midadan likalimati rabbee lanafida albahru qabla an tanfada kalimatu rabbee walaw ji/na bimithlihi madadan.
It appears that ink in Arabic is "midad." Personally I like "diyo" better.
More on Christopher Smart, Chaucer, and some lines from the poem can be found here:
http://library.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/
pdf_extract/s5-XXVIII/2/124
It's an old trope. I think Elisheva Sperber (daughter of R. Dr. Daniel Sperber) has written about it. It certainly predates Akdomus.
Then there's the passage in Nishmat, "illu finu malei shirah ka-yam" -- "If our mouths were as full of song as the sea," etc. This is right from the Gemara, Berakhot 59b, ascribed to R. Yochanan. So I would agree that this is most likely "a generic type of paeon."
Another take on this theme is:
"If all the world were apple pie
And all the seas were ink
And all the trees were bread and cheese
What would we have to drink?"
There is a fairly comprehensive discussion of this topic at http://en.allexperts.com/q/Poetr...78/Poetry-
8.htm
"Then there's the passage in Nishmat, "illu finu malei shirah ka-yam" -- "If our mouths were as full of song as the sea," etc. This is right from the Gemara, Berakhot 59b, ascribed to R. Yochanan. So I would agree that this is most likely "a generic type of paeon."
I don't see how the second sentence necessarily follows the first.
Arg, I meant I don't see how the final sentence follows the previous sentences. (But I'm glad you found that source!)
What I meant was, this poetic theme or "trope" seems to have been in the air since antiquity, certainly within the Jewish world and evidently elsewhere as well. As DF suggests, it seems to have "existed in world literature for millenia." In other words, it doesn't seem likely that Chaucer or Smart or the "lunatic" picked it up from a Jewish source in particular.
DF, can you find anything in world literature with this theme older than the Talmud? (The site Dan Klein provided mentions a Hindu source, but it neglects to pin a date on it.) To answer the question, "Can we not conclude that the phrase is simply a generic type of peon that has existed in world literature for millenia?" I think the answer is: First, lets find the oldest source.
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