"Tried and tested" how??
I should have written tried and true, since tried and tested mean the same thing. Bad idiomatic translation on my part.
Irregardless, I wondered that too.
How about just plain "regardless" :)
What is this, Pick on S. Day?
;)
How is it tzniut to get milk from a nursing mother and daughter?
"Tried and tested" how??
Perhaps the Rama drank this concoction and gave some to his chaveirm. And not one of the imbibed went OTD.
I think we should make this drink a prerequisite for visiting this blog. :-)
Remember, it only works with tzom and tevilah.
How is it tzniut to get milk from a nursing mother and daughter?
The collection may be performed in private. The drinking itself can be performed in public (with much fanfare).
Actually, the swallowing. No drinking on the "fast" day.
Of course it would be performed in private. I take that for granted.
But it is tzniut to ask?
Yes, just maybe not tzniut to ask on a public forum.
A mother nursing her baby daughter, or a mother and her daughter both nursing their respective babies?
Two nursing women; a mother and her daughter, both with babies.
But isn't human milk generally considered treif for adults? Maybe there was a special heter for those acutely at risk of going off the derekh.
I was wondering was that strange untranslated word was at the beginning of the diary entry. An inspired guess led to think of Faenza. Sure enough, this turns out to be a town in the same region of Italy as Lugo.
I need some self-editing: "I was wondering what that strange untranslated word was... An inspired guess led me to think of Faenza..."
You've mistranslated it. The scroll is to be written while fasting and after immersion. There's nothing about the condition of the person swallowing the thing. I'm more interested in how small a piece of parchment this is supposed to be - are we talking microwriting, or is one to shred the scroll before swallowing (invisible ink, so presumably no issur of lo taasu ken).
You've mistranslated it. The scroll is to be written while fasting and after immersion. There's nothing about the condition of the person swallowing the thing. I'm more interested in how small a piece of parchment this is supposed to be - are we talking microwriting, or is one to shred the scroll before swallowing (invisible ink, so presumably no issur of lo taasu ken).
But isn't human milk generally considered treif for adults?
No, as long as you don't drink it from the source.
Yoreh Deah, 81:7
Anyone who believes in Jewish magic to this extent is probably not of the bent to apostasize in the first place, at least not willingly. It's like the segulah that anyone who learns shas a dozen times will become a talmid chacham.
Just to clarify (as your hyperlink does, but it may not be entirely clear to the uninitiated), Rem'a here is not R' Moses Isserles, but rather the Kabbalist R' Menachem Azaryah of Fano.
If the scroll is small enough, or if it's OK to shred it, then the person being dosed need not know about it or believe in it. Presumably people would dose their children as a prophylactic.
How is this not a violation of Tamim Tihey im Hashem
To believe in Hashem and his Torah and not in Maisei Emori
>Anyone who believes in Jewish magic to this extent is probably not of the bent to apostasize in the first place, at least not willingly. It's like the segulah that anyone who learns shas a dozen times will become a talmid chacham.
I will update this post today, with the passage where the Chida applies this segulah to a woman who isn't getting along with her husband.
I think we have to remember that apostasizing in pre-emancipation times, while still not the choice of most Jews, was not the same thing as apostasizing today, I would think, given that the pressures Jews faced then, as a rule, were more intense than they are now and there was no way of relieving that pressure apart from apostasizing. You can look at it as almost more traiterous then, but I think it was also more easy to understand. Realize also that almost all Jews who did apostasize then, and there were more than we sometimes think (see, eg, E. Carlebach's book for numbers), were raised in traditional religious environments, unlike today. Back then most Jews were living traditional lives, so almost by default meshumadim had been observant. That makes it even harder to understand from our POV when shmad would seem to result more from lack of familiarity with Judaism. But then it wouldn't seem to have had anything to do with that.
>How is this not a violation of Tamim Tihey im Hashem
>To believe in Hashem and his Torah and not in Maisei Emori
Welcome to mainstream Judaism in the 18th century. The dissenters from such magic were few and far in between, if they existed. As the Chida said, this was a segulah of R. Menachem Azariah of Fano and it was tested and reliable. What more would you have wanted from him?
Note that the Chida had a critical mind (albeit not a modern mind) and distinguished between things like this and the practices of charlatans. See, eg, his words about the Baal Shem of London later in Ma'agal Tov.
I agree with milhouse - the scroll is to be written with fasting and prayer (or alternatively the milk is mixed with lemon juice with fasting and prayer). It does not say that the person who swallows it needs to fast and pray.
Yeah, rereading it, it makes more sense the way Milhouse read it.
Just saw a letter from the last Lubavitcher Rebbe where he says something to the effect that there is no problem of תמים תהיה for segulot. It's not any different than going to a doctor. One just has to be sure that it's effective.
> Just saw a letter from the last Lubavitcher Rebbe where he says something to the effect that there is no problem of תמים תהיה for segulot.
Just to give some context to the Rebbe's zt"l stance on segulot. One time a chassid came to the Rebbe and mentioned that he heard of a segula that if right away after shabbos, one fold their tallis, it is a segula for shalom bayis. The Rebbe answered that he has an even better segula for shalom bayis. if one right away after shabbos hurries home and helps his wife with the dishes, it is a huge segula for shalom bayis.
The Rebbe answered that he has an even better segula for shalom bayis. if one right away after shabbos hurries home and helps his wife with the dishes, it is a huge segula for shalom bayis.
chardal | Homepage | 05.29.08 - 7:45 am | #
It's true, I've tried this.
"Welcome to mainstream Judaism in the 18th century."
and of the 21st c.?
>and of the 21st c.?
There are competing alternatives (even within Orthodoxy). Not much so in the 18th, at least not at first.
It kind of makes sense. Anyone who swallows a klaf containing other people's bodily fluids on them in the name of religion, is rather unlikely to swipe his religion for something less dramatic ...
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