He had the Septuagint, though. How much does he differ from the Septuagint in his understanding of the Hebrew? (I know neither Latin or Greek; I'm just posing the question.)
S.,
This is a bit off topic - I sent you an email a few weeks ago, but it may have gotten spam-killed...
Do you or any of your readers know about a certain anti-christian polemical poem sung on Purim which was found in the Cairo Genizah? It is referred to in this article by professor Yahalom of HU:
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/obj...l?
itemNo=401376
I thought it was interesting because it seems to rhyme Greek and Aramaic.
Thanks!
Oops, what I meant to say is, does anyone know where I can find more information about it!
Does Jerome ever mention by name the Jews he studied Hebrew with, and if so, are they also mentioned in rabbinic literature? The only descriptions we of chazal come from their colleaugues and students. (One of the Gamliels and a Nakdimon/Nicodemus excepted, as being mentioned in the New Testament? Not sure.) It would be very interesting to see them described by "outsiders" like Jerome.
Dr. Leiman, in his dissertation, discusses a kabbalistic "vort" recorded by Jerome. He told me once he passed this on to G. Sholem, as it demonstrated a very early date for kabbalistic ideas. He said G. Sholem thought it very nice, but that it didnt prove anything. I beleive Dr. Leiman said Sholem did not give a reason.
Well, he tells you straight aways that it appears in his book, Jewish Palestinian Aramaic Poetry from Late Antiquity," Yahalom and Sokoloff, poem 33. (it's in hebrew) Check there. and yes, he and sokoloff obviously, are the only ones (certainly the first) to publish these poems so dont expect to find too much elsewhere as the book is fairly recent. im pretty sure elliot horowitz refers to some of those poems in his recent book but im not sure if he refers or talks at great length of this specific poem...
discusses a kabbalistic "vort" recorded by Jerome
that's hardly what it was. it was a comment jerome records in the name of a contmeporary jew that is found only in the zohar, but not elsewhere in rabbinic lit. this might indicate that the zohar does actually contain early material and is not (all) a late medieval invention. whatever the merit of that is (obviously scholem didnt think too much of it, in terms of its overall worth) it still does not make it a "kabbalistic vort"!
I was using the term loosely. The actual vort had to do with a letter sequence, I think.
"discusses a kabbalistic "vort" recorded by Jerome
that's hardly what it was. it was a comment jerome records in the name of a contmeporary jew that is found only in the zohar, but not elsewhere in rabbinic lit. this might indicate that the zohar does actually contain early material and is not (all) a late medieval invention."
Wow.
"Yahalom and Sokoloff, poem 33. (it's in hebrew) Check there."
Maybe one day. My Hebrew is not good enough to attempt this currently (I am no St Jerome!) - so I was hoping that this was something that was discussed in English somewhere...
Thanks mivami!
Fred: I always thought that Jerome was heavily influenced by the Septuagint- witness how the names of the Catholic books follow the Greek rather than the Hebrew (I-IV Kings, Greek versions of proper names, etc.); the presence of the Apocrypha, including Greek rather than Hebrew Esther, and so on.
Funny that in that picture he's wearing the clothes of a medieval-to-modern Catholic Cardinal.
Well. It has not been that often in my commenting career that a small thought becomes a major post on such a chashuve blog. Really, I'm kvelling. Thank you.
Of course, our dear baal hablog is right: Jerome knew quite a bit of Hebrew. There were no grammars back then, and, like the song in "South Pacific" tells us, you have to be carefully taught that much Hebrew and Tanach. And he was.
If I'm not mistaken, the great Dr. Louis Ginzberg wrote his PhD thesis, or one of his very earliest works, in which he discussed the "lost midrashim" which were collected, written down and taught by, of all people, the Church fathers themselves! Jerome must have had quite a few of these in his schooling by the locals. I assume.
In a scholarly piece by Dr. Ezra Shereshevsky published in HUCA many years ago, the author argues that Rashi was informed ---perhaps by local priests---of the pshetlach of St. Jerome (obviously on the Tanach), and therefore throughout Rashi's commentary on Psalms you will find him writing, "They say...but it is not so..." somewhat frequently. Don't have it in front of me for the cite, but you have what you need on that one. So he clearly knew midrashim, the language, some vorts, and I'm sure much, much more.
I'm looking at the Encyclopedia Judaica (9:1376) under "Jerome" and there really is a lot here.
Some basics from the EJ: born 342-died 420. A baal tshuva who lived the ascetic (not the hasidic) life in modern-day Syria and learned some Hebrew from an apostate Jew. He returned to Antioch where he was ordained a priest. Went to Constantinole to "learn in kollel" and where he heard drashos from Gregory of Nazianzus on the Bible. From 382-385 he lived in Rome as secretary to Pope Damasus I.
First, the juicy stuff on Hebrew, then something even juicier later:
In 386 he settled in Bethlehem, where he founded a monastery. There he continued his study of the Hebrew.
Quote: "He had several Jewish teachers: one came from Lydda, and the second, named Bar-Hanina, came from Tiberias. Out of fear of the Jews, the latter was sometimes compelled, according to Jerome, to visit him at night, and at times he even sent another Jew, named Nicodemus, to take his place. At that time the Jews derided gentiles who could not pronounce the pharyngeals properly. Jerome, however, attained such a degree of proficiency in his pronunciation of Hebrew that the transcriptions of Hebrew words in his writings are important for knowledge of Hebrew pronunciation at that time."
There's more there, of course, and perhaps Sam can scan it and we can all enjoy it. Suffice to say, his Hebrew translation of the Torah was initially not well received by the Church. "His opponents labelled him a falsifier and a profaner of God, claiming that through his translations he had abrogated the sacred traditions of the Church and followed the Jews."
And this: "His commentaries were the basis of medieval Christian biblical exegesis, and even Jewish
...exegetes occassionally quote him." It then continues there and corroborates Ginzberg's study on the subject.
The juicy stuff? He translated a work known as the "Chronicon" by Eusebius, which gave dates of events from Abraham onwards. The EJ feels his work on that was "slipshod and inexact." The EJ contends his work "served as the basis for all the chronography of the Middle Ages in the west and also had a direct or indirect influence upon medieval Hebrew authors."
Is that inexact work by Jerome the underlying reason Azaryah de Rossi was so critical of our Jewish calendars, in his Meor Enayim? Haven't read it yet, but since it was near/semi banned, I'm sure it's worth a look.
Thanks for lettine me share this with you.
I also have a little something about him from Catholic Digest, April 2000. Anyone interested? Can I hear an "amen"?
The guy was fascinating. Cranky. Sarcastic. Biting. And, no, living as a hermit for three years (375-378) in the desert of Chalcis, he was by no means dressing in all that red he's portrayed as wearing above. A painting of him as a hermit, dressed in nothing but a loincloth, was the very cover of a magazine a few years ago ("Academy"? I believe that was it) which featured YU as an unusual institution which teaches religious orthodoxy and liberal arts and sciences.
I know way too much trivia. Sorry!
Why is he wearing a dress?
--complete with a floopsy sunhat? Good ole Jerome liked to feel pretty sometimes, hmm?
That's standard Cardinal's garb to this day. The "dress," of course, is the standard robe, and the hat was a standard Italian hat that was retained by clergy for years after it became fashionable; it's still worn to this day in different colors- priests black, bishops purple, cardinals red, patriarchs green, etc. The number of tassels also varies by degree. It isn't really worn in the US or much of Europe, but it appears on the cleric's coat of arms and an actual hat is hung in the cathedral after the death of cardinal, getting more and more decrepit as the years progress. There are probably a few dozen hung in St. Patrick's above the appropriate coat of arms for each.
The picture, of course, is anachronistic. Many pictures of Jerome show him hitting his chest with a rock and doing other things emblematic of his life.
The comment on Rashi is interesting, as Rashi actually forms the basis of many of the Protestant translations in German and English.
Years after the hat became unfashionable, sorry.
My favorite anti-christian polemic remain Profiat Durans - Al Tehi. http://www.daat.ac.il/daat/mahsh...rut/duran-
2.htm . Its brilliant. I've got to have some Hakaras Hatov to Geiger for this one.
"without being, essentially, a צורבא מרבנן."
Thats silly. The Rabanan needed to ask Rebbi's maid for help with translations.
Incidentally, R' Margolies suggests that some of Chazals derashot were meant to counter the Septaguint , etc. I believe its in his Mikra U' Mesora.
About: In a scholarly piece by Dr. Ezra Shereshevsky published in HUCA many years ago, the author argues that Rashi was informed ...
I looked, but didn't find anything in HUCA. There are several articles by Shereshevsky in JQR. Were you thinking of one of those (e.g. "Rashi's and Christian Interpretations", The Jewish Quarterly Review, New Ser., Vol. 61, No. 1. (Jul., 1970), pp. 76-86.)? If this isn't what you were thinking of, it'd be great to have a reference. Thanks!
KT
Yes, you're right. Sorry. That is precisely the article I meant. Thanks for correcting me!
Jerome's Hebrew Questions on Genesis:
http://ccat.sas.upenn.edu/bmcr/1...6/
96.02.12.html
>Thats silly. The Rabanan needed to ask Rebbi's maid for help with translations.
That was 200 years before Jerome, and Hebrew was still spoken by Judean peasants at the time of Rebbi.
In Jerome's time, Hebrew was known as best it could be by the rabbis and their circle.
Still, good point. :)
SHMUEL:
"In a scholarly piece by Dr. Ezra Shereshevsky published in HUCA many years ago, the author argues that Rashi was informed ---perhaps by local priests---of the pshetlach of St. Jerome"
if you are referring to the JQR article, iirc he does state that rashi actually read any christian works or the vulgate (although the rashbam did?). rather he brings down a number of rashi's perushim that seem to be aimed at "correcting" jerome (without any specific reference to him) and thus shereshevsky feels that rashi was at least familiar with these texts.
SHMUEL:
"At that time the Jews derided gentiles who could not pronounce the pharyngeals properly."
many jews during the time of the gemara also couldn't pronounce them
"iirc he does state" should read "iirc he does NOT state"
"if you are referring to the JQR article, iirc he does [not] state that rashi actually read any christian works or the vulgate (although the rashbam did?). rather he brings down a number of rashi's perushim that seem to be aimed at "correcting" jerome (without any specific reference to him) and thus shereshevsky feels that rashi was at least familiar with these texts.
Lion of Zion | Homepage | 03.01.08 - 11:14 pm | #
I haven't read the article in a while. Your take sounds correct. But how was he familiarized with these texts? He didn't read Latin, so he couldn't have read the Vulgate or Jerome's stand-alone commentaries. My theory is that local priests would inform him of Jerome's interpretations, which sent Rashi "write" to the inkwell. How else could he possibly have known of these pshetlach, if not from local priests?
"My theory is that local priests would inform him of Jerome's interpretations"
perhaps. shereshevsky cites a general history volume, which asserts that the jews and christians of troyes were close.
or maybe he learned them from his grandson (rashbam)?
shavuah tov
"That was 200 years before Jerome, and Hebrew was still spoken by Judean peasants at the time of Rebbi.
"In Jerome's time, Hebrew was known as best it could be by the rabbis and their circle."
Did the rabbis speak Hebrew at the time of Rebbi?
If they did, not as ancient and organic a dialect as the maid of rebbi, at least that is what it seems like. The rabbis then lived, for the most part, in the Galilee, where Aramaic had been dominant as the spoken language for a long time.
see J. Schwartz, "Jerome and the Jews of Judea," Zion 47 (1982).
yes, DR. Ginzberg wrote his Ph.D. on midrashim allegedly found in the Church Fathers.
I remember seeing it freely available for downloading some time ago (It's in German.)
Probably no one will see this, but:
Of course Jerome knew the Septuagint well. His first translation of Psalms for Pope Damasus was a revision of the Old Latin translation, which was based on the LXX. But he explicitly and rejected the LXX, and repeated claims that the Vulgate is based on the "Hebrew truth" (Hebraica veritas). He only admits dependence on the LXX when it's a matter of important Church doctrina, e.g. most famously virgo for 'alma. (Though even in this case he tries to justify the translation on the basis of the Hebrew.)
Does this mean he really used Hebrew as much as he says he did, and that his Hebrew was good enough for the job? Not necessarily. Alison Salvesen (in "Symmachus in the Pentateuch") has shown how dependent Jerome was on Greek translations of the Bible OTHER than the LXX. The translations of Symmachus, Aquila, and Theodotion were all attributed to Jews or Jewish Christians and they all are closer to the Masoretic Text than the LXX is. So if Jerome translated from THEM, he would have ended up sounding as if he'd translated from the Hebrew.
This doesn't mean he didn't know Hebrew. But we don't have to take his word about how super-brilliant he was. And it's hard to draw any firm conclusions about his supposed Jewish tutors.
Nicholas de Lange's book, Origen and the Jews, is great on Jews teaching Hebrew and Midrash to Christians.
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