By clicking Publish you indemnify B-BBC and accept full legal responsibility for your comments
amimissingsomething:
"If i can't prove i'm innocent, then i'm guilty."
"If you bombers of civilians can't prove you were justified, then you're terrorists."
(only, of course, if i, and you, don't belong to most favoured grouping?)
well, some don't do outrage, but they sure do do guilt...
LocrianUSA:
Sounds like your BBC and our NYT would make perfect bedfellows.
http://littlegreenfootballs.com/..._the_Enemy&
only
Bryan:
Natalie,
Your post takes me back to BBC 1 last week and the voice over (if that's what it's called) with the menacing footage of an approaching Israeli tank:
Lebanon
Thursday morning
Staring down the barrel of an Israeli gun
That, together with Bowen's war crime and the captured soldiers and, of course, the Israel kills Lebanese civilians headline is a pretty clear indication of how the BBC intends to cover these extraordinary events.
Grimer and I bumped into the BBC in the corridor and tried to talk to talk some sense into it but it stuck its nose in the air and walked on:
http://www.haloscan.com/comments...7762726/
#294715
http://www.haloscan.com/comments...7762726/
#294721
There's just no getting through to it. The prejudices are too deep and too ingrained. The indoctrination has been too thorough.
Anonymous:
I think it's quite obvious why the beeb care.
It's because they want to use the words Israel and war-crimes in the same headline.
In fact they're probably wetting themselves at the prospect of doing so.
ed:
Great post, Natalie.
Big Mouth:
If this isn't a case for getting rid of al-beeb, I give up!
BBC News 24 yesterday reported that Israel started this war just to get 2 soldiers back, they then said that Hizbollah were firing rockets into Israel in response to Israel's bombardment of Lebanon.
They then reported the civilian deaths and casualties in Lebanon, saying that Israel's actions are war crimes. They don't bother to tell us about the 500 civilian casualties on the Israeli side.
They don't mention the relative silence from the moderate Arab world, and from the West. Both of these camps are quite happy for Israel to take the first steps in the war against radical Islam.
Charlie:
The Beeb's response would be something like:
War crimes can only be committed by armed forces. The masses ranks of 'bombers' aren't really armed forces - they are freedom fighters/plumbers/rocket enthusiasts/oppressed minorities etc etc.. They can't help their actions, which are pefectly understandble reactions to decades of persecution by Western ideaologies which....(Cont P. 94, the Polly Toynbee column.)
Gerbil:
Finally the BBC, which -even according to its own internal report- is baised in favour of Israel, is starting to call a spade a spade. Bowen's report was refreshing although I'm sure the language will be toned down pretty soon.
The fact is, both sides commit acts that are in violation of international law and are, therefore, war crimes. The difference is that Israel's crimes and the number of casualties it inflicts dwarf those of the Palestinians (Israel still loses more people on the roads per year than to terror attacks, for instance): the current figure for the last week or so running at about 6:1 if my memory serves me.
Two plain truths worth bearing in mind. Firstly, the occupation is an ongoing, continuous attack on the Palestinian people -every minute of every hour of every day for the last 40 years. Therefore, it's a logical contradiction to state that the Palestinians ever 'start' any of the exchanges -any more than one would blame the residents of the Warsaw ghetto for 'starting' a new round of attacks against their occupiers.
Secondly, while Palestinian actions are frequently atrocities and while the Israelis who lose their lives are not one iota less valuable than the Palestinians who lose theirs, the crmes of the Israeli state should concern us more (by us I mean principally the US and UK). Israel's crimes are in part our responsibility, since we bankroll and aid Israel (the US to the tune of billions per year). The US government should also hang its head in shame for exploiting Israel and keeping it in a permanent state of seige, in order that it functions better as a client state. That is why Israeli crimes should interest us more -because they are our crimes as well.
Ed:
Here's a parallel with the Warsaw Ghetto for gerbil - the Jews of the ghetto faced a vicious, murderous enemy intent on their destruction, just like modern-day Israel does with Hamas, Hezbollah and the unhinged leadership of Iran.
archduke:
Mr Bowen & co. could do well to read through this webpage:
http://www.israel-mfa.gov.il/MFA...%20Violence%
20a
click on each and every one Mr Bowen.
archduke:
"Firstly, the occupation is an ongoing, continuous attack on the Palestinian people"
18% of the Israeli population - i.e. those living within Israel proper - are actually Arab. are they coming under "continuous attack"?
errr. no. why? because they arent harbouring terrorists.
Bryan:
....any more than one would blame the residents of the Warsaw ghetto for 'starting' a new round of attacks against their occupiers.
Gerbil, the far left site is down the road, next to the Islamofascist one. If you see some robed idividuals going in, they aren't lost - they've been invited to the Israel-bashing meeting. If you hurry, you'll get there before it starts.
eiland:
jeremy bowen has had it in for israel for years.
the reason being that he saw his lebanese colleague killed by alleged israeli tank fire in south lebanon.
he has not forgiven israel and never will.
in view of this his appointment to head the bbc middle east desk is rather surprising.the bbc surely knows his views.
archduke:
i'm still re-reading Natalies post in utter astonishment.
its a "war crime" to hit a bridge, according to Mr Bowen.
but Hizbollah lobbing rockets into civillian areas goes uncommented by Mr Bowen.
So, its ok for Hizbollah to have a genocidal policy towards Israelis?
I must sit down before my head explodes.
Mark:
I wonder if the BBC are aware of the make-up of the 8 (Israeli) people - military or civilian, child or woman - who were killed by Hezbollah, according to the following report:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world...ast/
5184428.stm
Secondly, I wonder when (if) they do find out, they'll be bothered to let us know....
Oh, between starting this and previewing it, the figure has gone up to NINE, but still no word on if they're civilians or not.
dumbcisco:
Bridges being hit are not war crimes. Bowen is being ridiculous.
The Israelis are seeking to cut off reinforcement routes from Syria - and to cut off the chances of the Israeli soldiers being taken to Syria or Iran.
archduke:
googling around, i stumbled across this article from 2002, on why the Palestinians are winning the media war:
http://reformjudaismmag.net/02fa...all/
focus.shtml
worth reading - there's a lot of stuff in there to chew over.
john major is on Marr's sunday show now.
Mr Major's links to the Carlyle Group (and their arms sales to Arab states) is of course , never mentioned.
Bearing that in mind, its no wonder he has a go at Israel.
paraphrasing; "even if they defeat Hizbollah, another one will rise in its place"
oh right. So, Mr Major, would you have said that to Mr Churchill about the Nazis?
archduke:
haifa - 8 killed (or maybe 9)
sky news: rockets were iranian made.
IDF reporting again that Iranian Revolutionary Guards are in Lebanon.
archduke:
ynet news - hizbollah has long range missiles. iranian supplied.
ttp://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-
3276451,00.html
archduke:
http://www.ynetnews.com/
articles...3276451,00.html
Rob:
I have been waiting for a drone from the extreme left to blame us (the West), and there it is above. Standard leftist fare, unremarkable in its guilt, self-loathing and illogic in equal measure.
Anyway, back to the BBC. This article:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world...ast/
5184428.stm
is a good example of the general, all-pervasive bias. Not once do they mention that the casualties of the Hizbollah rocket attacks were civilian, yet in an article about rocket attacks on an Israeli city they manage to mention Lebanese civilian casualties twice. Still, no doubt they were "home-made rockets", so the Israeli civilians aren't properly dead, or something.
As for not using the word "terrorist", the BBC insists that they do not have a policy over this. Of course, it is just a complete coincidence that every report on their website dealing with terrorism happens to use the word 'militant', or even militant in inverted commas, and that reports of the 7/7 terrorist attacks were changed to remove the word 'terrorist'. It is a quite deliberate policy and any organisation which cannot label the butchers of Beslan or the London terrorists as "terrorists" is a sick and immoral one.
As for language being a "barrier to understanding" at the BBC, it is a decidedly one-way barrier. The BBC appeal for non-judgementalism only when their chosen causes are under attack. They are as judgemental as hell when the case suits them. "Non-judgementalism" is just another weapon the Left uses to shut down debate on any subject they wish.
will:
BBC interviewers will not let most UK politicians (Lib Dems excepted) get out 2 sentences before interrupting - usually too hastily for my liking.
However when Andrew Marx interviews veteran Palestinian negotiator Hanan Ashrawi he allows a lengthy emotional rant, which plays out time & allows no follow up question.
But when Ashrawi claims that Israel is occupying Lebanese land, wouldn't an interruption & clarification be desirable?
Raddai Jacobs:
"I have been waiting for a drone from the extreme left to blame us (the West), and there it is above. Standard leftist fare, unremarkable in its guilt, self-loathing and illogic in equal measure."
Yeah, with crushing, point by point refutation like that, it's a wonder why we bother. Of course, any criticism of the Israel state is based entirely on self-loathing and hatred of da Joos because there is no occupation, Israel is a tiny, defenseless little nuclear state so feeble and helpless that it could only defeat every NATO country with the exception of the US, and, as we know, the entire Arab world is one big death cult that has always wanted to extermninate the Jews.
Did you know Hitler was an arab?
And Robert Fisk, and John Pilger and everyone at the BBC. In fact, the vast bulk of the planet (at least where polls are taken): they all hate the jews, liked Hitler and hate themselves. That's why they criticise Israel -it has to be because, clearly, Israel is ONLY DEFENDING ITSELF (repeat as necessary).
You're best sticking to the insults -the evidence certainly won't help your arguments.
PJF:
Israel kills Lebanese civilians
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middl...ast/
5182564.stm
Deadly Hezbollah attack on Haifa
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middl...ast/
5184428.stm
Just a slight difference in tone. Israel kills civilians; Hezbollah attacks town.
And given the reality that the Lebanese civilians were killed inadvertently after being given a warning to leave, whereas the Israeli civilians were targeted as deliberately as is possible with indiscriminate rocket fire into a city - it's an utterly shameful difference in tone.
It would be fine if the BBC examined the Middle East conflict with a dispassionate, disinterested detachment akin to a documentary about red ants and black ants. But the evidence is clear that they have taken a side; they have adopted a dog in the fight.
.
Gerbil001:
Yep, Israel warn the Lebanese to leave and then, when they try, slaughters them anyway:
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/1...7c3c&ei=5087%
0A
Meanwhile, Lebanon pleads for help from the rest of the world, know that Israel's master will make sure its client remains above the law.
Just imagine trying to drive out an invader, knowing that no one else in the world can help you, because the hyperpower is protecting your oppressor. No wonder the Palestinians are desperate enough to use suicide bombing: the US makes sure they have no choice.
dumbcisco:
"No wonder Palestinians are desparate enough to use suicide bombing ".....
How come the leaders of Hamas never strap explosives on themselves, they use brainwashed young people instead ? Brainwashing of a fascist kind that starts in childhood, complete with Nazi salutes at parades, all underpinned by the warped religious notion of jihad.
Gerbil - has it sunk into your head that Israel was not occupying Lebanon ? The evil people occupying south Lebanon are Hezbollah - following their eviction from Jordan.
And Israel withdrew from Gaza too. But Hamas carried on firing hundreds of rockets into Israel from Gaza - hundreds of attempted murders.
Biodegradable:
Biased-BBC must be having some effect if we've attracted our own pet troll - a gerbil no less!
Pass me that hammer Nekama
max:
I'm trying to keep all the examples of blatant BBC propaganda regarding this conflict in one post which will be updated, here:
http://un-r-us.blogspot.com/2006...rom-
israel.html
I think the BBC has crossed the line between bias and propaganda. I sent a letter to the Foreign Ministry suggesting that Israel needs to take action against them.
Melanie Phillips writes that "The BBC reporting of Israel has become a weapon of war against the innocent. It should be raised in Parliament as a matter of urgency."
I think she's right and people who think likewise might want to send feedback to the Israeli MFA here:
http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/feedback.htm
Or e-mail here:
feedback@mfa.gov.il
Raddai Jacobs:
Well, what do you know? The world's most famous self-hating Jew tells it like it is:
"At the same time, it's partly in Gaza, and sort of hidden in a way, but even more extreme in the West Bank, where Olmert announced his annexation program, what's euphemistically called "convergence" and described here often as a "withdrawal," but in fact it's a formalization of the program of annexing the valuable lands, most of the resources, including water, of the West Bank and cantonizing the rest and imprisoning it, since he also announced that Israel would take over the Jordan Valley. Well, that proceeds without extreme violence or nothing much said about it.
Gaza, itself, the latest phase, began on June 24. It was when Israel abducted two Gaza civilians, a doctor and his brother. We don't know their names. You don't know the names of victims. They were taken to Israel, presumably, and nobody knows their fate. The next day, something happened, which we do know about, a lot. Militants in Gaza, probably Islamic Jihad, abducted an Israeli soldier across the border. That's Corporal Gilad Shalit. And that's well known; the first abduction is not. Then followed the escalation of Israeli attacks on Gaza, which I don't have to repeat. It's reported on adequately.
The next stage was Hezbollah's abduction of two Israeli soldiers, they say on the border. Their official reason for this is that they are aiming for prisoner release. There are a few, nobody knows how many. Officially, there are three Lebanese prisoners in Israel. There's allegedly a couple hundred people missing. Who knows where they are?
But the real reason, I think it's generally agreed by analysts, is that -- I'll read from the Financial Times, which happens to be right in front of me. "The timing and scale of its attack suggest it was partly intended to reduce the pressure on Palestinians by forcing Israel to fight on two fronts simultaneously." David Hirst, who knows this area well, describes it, I think this morning, as a display of solidarity with suffering people, the clinching impulse.
It's a very -- mind you -- very irresponsible act. It subjects Lebanese to possible -- certainly to plenty of terror and possible extreme disaster. Whether it can achieve any result, either in the secondary question of freeing prisoners or the primary question of some form of solidarity with the people of Gaza, I hope so, but I wouldn't rank the probabilities very high...."
http://members.boardhost.com/
DT3...1153047130.html
Gerbil001:
How come politicians never go fight their wars but instead send brainwashed kids to do it for them?
same reason the world over, be it kids fight for Hamas, the IDF, the US army, the IRA, whatever... politicians fight wars with other peoples' sons.
Biodegradable:
Where Have You Gone, Yasser Arafat?
NY Times columnist David Brooks explains why the current Hamas/Hezbollah violence marks a signficant change in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict:
In all other crises, the Palestinians, thanks to Yasir Arafat’s strenuous efforts, owned their own cause, but now the clerics in Iran are taking control of the Palestinian cause and turning it into a weapon in a much larger struggle….
The core issue is that just as Israel has been trying to pull back to more sensible borders, its enemies have gone completely berserk. Through some combination of fecklessness and passivity, the Arab world has ceded control of this vital flashpoint to Mahmoud Ahmadinejad and Bashar al-Assad. It has ceded its own destiny to people who do not believe in freedom, democracy, tolerance or any of the values civilized people hold dear.
And what’s the world’s response? Israel is overreacting.
Natalie, are the Gerbils and "Raddai Jacobs" coming from the same IPs? I'm not suggesting you ban them, just curious to know what dark recess of the internet they've crawled out of.
Biodegradable:
How come politicians never go fight their wars but instead send brainwashed kids to do it for them?
Difficult as it may be for your feeble mind to grasp in this case Israeli sons, daughters, fathers and mothers are fighting for the survival of their country. You'll also find that just about every politician in Israel has also served in the military, perhaps with the exception of the Arab-Israeli MKs.
Ralph:
'Jeremy Bowen saying something like if Israel can't prove that bombing the bridges in Lebanon was justified "then it's a war crime."'
I wonder if Jeremy Bowen would like some to suggest that if he can't prove he is not a child molester then he is one?
More importantly as anyone with a vague knowledge of war knows you hit infrastructure to deny your enemy the ability to move around is Bowen either very ill informed or being biased?
Biodegradable:
In reply to my own question, a glance at the stats shows that the Gerbil infestation comes from here:
http://
manyangrygerbils.typepad....sraeli_arm.html
Optimistically, one might think that the increasing scale of Israeli crimes is making it hard for even the BBC to maintain its habitual bias.
Excuse me while I piss myself laughing!
Hey Gerbil, as a leftie you should read this, and possibly get back to where the left should be:
Why the left should support Israel
pounce:
I see AL Beeb is on the offensive on these boards this morning.
Like Master, like sycophant.
lurker in a burqua:
well done natalie.
last nights bbc four news was also a jew bashing fest, i hope the jews remember those who aided thier attackers.
Ralph:
How come politicians never go fight their wars but instead send brainwashed kids to do it for them?
Perhaps because they're politicans not soldier dear.
archduke:
"as we know, the entire Arab world is one big death cult that has always wanted to extermninate the Jews."
http://memri.org/antisemitism.html
walks like a Nazi, quacks like a Nazi....
i would have thought we had learned the lesson of pre-WW2, when nobody took Hitler seriously.
"Israel is a tiny, defenseless little nuclear state so feeble and helpless that it could only defeat every NATO country with the exception of the US,"
if it really was helpless, you can be damn sure that we would have had holocaust part 2 by now.
so you are saying, just because Israel has armed itself to the teeth to defend itself, then somehow we should kind of forget about virulent anti-semitism coming from the Islamofascists of Hizbollah, Iran and Hamas?
Biodegradable:
Mofaz: Haifa rocket was Syrian-made
More rockets hit coastal cities from Nahariya to Haifa
'Israel cannot accept this situation'
dumbcisco:
Ralph
As you say, the first actions in war are to aim for the 3 C's - command, control and communications. Bridges, TV stations and the mobile networks that Hezbollah use are prime targets at present. Nothing about a war crime there.
Bowen goes from bad to worse. The guy pretends expertise, but time after time he is either ignorant on facts or clearly biased. Far too often he fails to report facts - he just opinionises. With a bias towards the terrorist side.
Biodegradable:
Gerbil001:
Yep, Israel warn the Lebanese to leave and then, when they try, slaughters them anyway:
See my post about that incident:
http://www.haloscan.com/comments...7762726/
#294657
pounce:
”Israel is a tiny, defenseless little nuclear state so feeble and helpless that it could only defeat every NATO country with the exception of the US,”
Please don’t talk about a subject you know absolutely nothing about as if you do.
The following countries are in NATO and on their own could overrun Israel;
Britain,
France
Germany
Italy
Poland
Turkey.
Granted the rest are all tiny little states whom would have a hard time taking out Israel. But why should they? The last I looked the only pre-emptive strike Israel has ever made on the natives in which she was in the wrong was in 1956. The rest have all been made in the name of defence of the realm.
The fact that Arabs countries have never been able to replicate the military victories of the Ottomans and before that of the First Islamic expansion isn’t due to the fact that the IDF is armed to the teeth by America. It is because the Arab armies are designed to oppress their own rather than fight somebody on a symmetrical battlefield.
Just because the Arabs have lost military , time, and time again doesn’t mean the IDF are invincible. It means the Arabs have all the gear and no idea.
So please less of this tiny defenceless little nuclear state and stick to something to you actually can rabbit on about with confidence.
pounce:
Al Beeb and how it defends its psychotic masters ‘The Taliban’ by blaming the victim for its crimes.
Afghans investigate air strikes
Afghanistan's president has launched an inquiry into an air strike called in by UK forces in Nawzad, Helmand Province, after claims civilians were killed.
Local people told the BBC a significant number of civilians died when at least three 227-kg (500-pound) bombs hit a market there on Wednesday.
British forces say they have no evidence to support this.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world...sia/
5184468.stm
Al Beeb up to its old tricks of misinformation in which to make out the Taliban as the saviours of Afghanistan from the evil imperialistic United Kingdom.
So they claim that a significant number of civilians died when the Brits bombed the market. Really Al Beeb? According to that earlier report (which can be substantiated by your video on the very same subject) you pointed out that a school was destroyed by bombs, that the school was used as a military strong point and then you showed lots of film clips of buildings which had been hit not a crowded market place.(How the hell a market place would have loads of people in it after a few hours of a bun fight is beyond me CAIR to explain AL Beeb)
So Al Beeb you spread lies that innocent Muslims are dying at the hands of British troops somehow hoping I guess that some naïve person in the Uk will take matters into his own hands and do something nasty.(Thus making yet more news for you) That isn’t news reporting AL beeb it is propaganda for the enemy of humanity.
Caped Crusader:
This is interesting, an Israeli ARAB, stating things exactly as they are from the BBC HYS forum and especially for all those leftist anti-Semites who hark on about Israel being an 'apartheid' state:
To my Arab brothers elsewhere. My family lives in Haifa for dozens of years next to Jews. Not even once we felt a treat from the Jewish majority. I believe that if it was other way around, Jewish family living in Arab city, they would not last. The first time in our life we felt death treat was today, when our brothers sent the missile to Haifa. Our experience shows that Israelis have no intention of hurting us the Arabs, but they will never give up on some one who hurts them.
Munir, Haifa
archduke:
bbc HAS mentioned Hezbollah in a headline for the first time
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world...ast/
5184428.stm
"Deadly Hezbollah attack on Haifa"
i guess the constant criticism has finally got to them.
Caped Crusader:
Lets face it, the same amount of Jews were kicked out of arab countries and made refugees as arabs were made homeless by the state of Israel. The difference is that because Jews care about their brothers, they didn't leave the 1 million Jewish refugees to rot and quickly absorbed them into the fledgling Jewish state. In contrast the Arab states surrounding Israel have done nothing to help their arab 'brothers' prefering to use them as pawns and propaganda fodder. Its similar to the population swap of Hindus and Muslims in India/Pakistan when Pakistan was created. Leftists, driven by anti-Semitism, refuse to acknowledge this because it serves their ideologies and Jew hatred.
Gerbil001:
Hate to break this to you but, on 2003/04 figures, Israel is ranked 8th in the world in terms of troop numbers and third in the world by the more nuanced 'combat power' measure. In both cases, the only NATO country that beats it is, unsurprisingly, the US.
http://www.strategypage.com/dls/...les/
2004617.asp
In the region, Iran is the only serious contender and is years behind in sophistication. If you want to know more, get a copy of 'World Military Balance 2006' published in London by the Institute for Strategic Studies. If I recall, Jane's Defence Weekly publishs an annual assessment as well.
MisterMinit:
RE: What Jeremy Bowen actually said.
I don't think that Bowen's comments were inapropriate at all. I'm sure that it was factually accurate, and it is relevant to what's happening.
I can see the point that you're making about BBC not using the T-word, but bringing up the issue of war crimes.
However, this "war crimes" incident was only a very small part of the BBC's huge news output. Beleive it or not, the BBC do use the T-word - not so much on their website, but more on their TV output.
Therefore, as long as they don't push the "war crimes" stuff too much, I don't think that there is any reason to complain.
dave t:
Gerbiebaby:
If you want to comment kindly try and at least provide some semblence of expertise.....ever been a soldier have you?
'combat power' means bugger all if it only last for a wee while! Even your link says this!
"The downsize of this is that mobilizing its armed forces also cripples the Israeli economy. Under these conditions, Israel must conduct a war that ends within a few months. After that, supplying the armed forces becomes difficult and actual combat power begins to decline. " and:
"For most nations with powerful armed forces, it's mainly a matter of having the most formidable military force in the neighborhood."
I reckon (as does the NATO Military Committee whom I served with for two years) that the British/French have far superior combat power since we can and have been fighting various enemies WORLDWIDE not just down the road for decades now.....the Chinese also have problems of equipment and logisitics albeit they have manpower. India is actually more effective as they have surprise surprise adopted many of the Western ways of running their Armed Forces but made it locally effective by buying cheaper (Soviet) equipment or designing their own. They are gradually extending the reach of their influence throughout Asia and the Middle East.
Another example: a few years back the Canadians were widely regarded as having the best Brigade level forces in Germany which whupped all the others in NATO year after year on exercise. Now thanks to the leftie Liberals the CAF are a shadow of their former selves.
If Iran is years behind in sophiscation how come it begins to look as if it was THEIR chaps that manned and fired the Iranian built/Chinese designed anti ship missiles that took out the IDF's newest corvette? They do have equipment problems and they have no spare parts hence why their C130s etc keep falling out of the sky as well as Soviet designed aircraft (for which amazingly the BBC blames the US!). The Republican Guard are well equipped and highly trained to the detriment of the rest of their Iranian Forces. But then, the RG tend to be used to suppress their own people and forment the Islamic Revolution in other peoples' countries rather than straight forward combat. If you want to imply that Iran are not a credible force then you are wrong. They may be ineffective on a normal battlefield but in the shadow war of Islamic nutters versus the rest of the world (including their Muslim brothers who disagree with them) Iran are deadly.
And THAT is why Israel needs to deal with them now since the EU won't.
MisterMinit:
pounce: "Al Beeb up to its old tricks of misinformation in which to make out the Taliban as the saviours of Afghanistan from the evil imperialistic United Kingdom."
This level of hyperbole does you no favours whatsoever.
You can question the Beeb's intentions for putting this so prominently on their website, especially as it is not a significant event in itself, i.e. setting up an inquiry; and a quick scan reveals that no other media organisation seems to be too bothered with it. But let's keep the frothing at the mouth to a minimum shall we.
MisterMinit:
pounce: "Al Beeb up to its old tricks of misinformation in which to make out the Taliban as the saviours of Afghanistan from the evil imperialistic United Kingdom."
This level of hyperbole does you no favours whatsoever.
You can question the Beeb's intentions for putting this so prominently on their website, especially as it is not a significant event in itself, i.e. setting up an inquiry; and a quick scan reveals that no other media organisation seems to be too bothered with it. But let's keep the frothing at the mouth to a minimum shall we.
Mitchell Pennington, Tx.:
Woah, there's some dumbass LGFers on this page...
Nobody's saying that Iran's not got a powerful military. What the guy IS saying is that Israel being a brave little state fightin the good fight aganst impossible odds is a bunch of crap right out of a Joel Silver flick.
Israel is the superpower of the region: FACT. Israel is aggressive and arrogant and struts around because we back it up with arms and $$$: FACT.
Those 'arab nutters' are mostly just pissed at Israel for the way it behaves. Yeah, so there are some bad guys out there too who just hate jews. Well, I got news for you -you ever talked to a lot of Jewish hardline religius types? I have: trust me, they hate arabs just as much and think they are just lower lifeforms. Both sides gotta get past that shit. But that aint gonna happen until Israel packs up and gets behind the green line where it belongs. if does that -and the arabs still keep their shit up, then sign me up for the IDF, I'll go and fight for them myself.
Israel needs to quit being part of the problem by stopping giving the arabs an excuse to be pissed off. It does that and I figure 99% of arabs will just get back on with their lives and the 1% who really are whacked out will lose most of their support.
Talk on here, you'd think arabs weren't human being just like us. They arent crazies, the most of them, they're just real angry at the way Israel can kick em around and get away with it: Saddam pulled up in Kuwait and we kicked his ass right back out again, Israel keeps taking land and water of the Palestiniens and we just keep signing the checks.... it sucks and the world knows it.
Caped Crusader:
Mitchell Pennington, Tx.: Israel keeps taking land and water of the Palestiniens and we just keep signing the checks.... it sucks and the world knows it.
What planet do you live on? Israel completely withdrew from Gaza last year or have you forgotten that which means it is actully giving up land rather than taking it. Perhaps you read your newspaper incorrectly? or maybe you ignore it because it doesn't fit in with your world view, I mean why let facts get in the way!
disillusioned_german:
Right, and it's got nothing at all to do with Jihad and the hate of anything Jewish or Western.
Go back to your left-wing blogs, moonbats and spew your anti-Semitic hatred there.
What you're writing is exactly what we're getting from Al Beeb. That's why we're here. Talk about Europeans being deranged...
Mitchell Pennington, Tx.:
Hello, Dumbass?
'withdrew' from Gaza? I don't think so. Israel kept air control; border control; and the IDF continued operations. Check out One Big Prison by BETSELEM (more self-hating jews) or Human Rights Watch reports.
Anyway, the Gaza fake withdrawal didn't mean squat when Israeli 'settlers' keep building on the west bank: where they steal land and water and treat arabs like dogs.
anyway, how come the Palestinians should be grateful to Israel for pulling out of Gaza (even a little) -kinda like telling a rape victim to thank th guy for taking his hand off her throat while keeping hs piece buried inside her.
Biodegradable:
Both sides gotta get past that shit. But that aint gonna happen until Israel packs up and gets behind the green line where it belongs. if does that -and the arabs still keep their shit up, then sign me up for the IDF, I'll go and fight for them myself.
Listen up cowboy - Israel is behind its side of the green line with Lebanon, even the UN has certified that. Lebanon has not complied with the UN Resolution that states it must disarm Hezbollah. Hezbollah infiltrated across the border and kidnapped two Israeli soldiers.
Israel unilaterally withdraw from Gaza - the "Palestinians" tunneled under the border, attacked Israeli troops on Israeli soil, and kidnapped an israeli soldier.
You can sign up to the IDF here: http://www.idf.il/
ed:
What the lefties conveniently ignore is that the Palestinians are backed by the EU, the US, and their arab neighbours, financially. The fact that they're still in poverty is a result of their squandering that money on the rancid dreams of terrorists. There are huindred of millions in US dollars going yearly to the Palestinians, not to mention Euros which are even easier to come by. Much of the money the US gives to Israel is in the form of loans anyway. Excuse them for wishing Israel's continued existence, won't you?
Biodegradable:
Mitchell Pennington, Tx.:
Check out One Big Prison by BETSELEM (more self-hating jews) or Human Rights Watch reports.
I'm so glad you mention Human Rights Watch check this out:
http://hrw.org/english/docs/
2005...pa11106_txt.htm
Jack Bauer:
"Mitchell Pennington, Tx.:
Woah, there's some dumbass LGFers on this page..."
Woah... DUMBASS MOONBAT ALERT. Daily Commkos and Demonic Underground troll flaps across the pond.
Hey Jew hater troll, crawl back into yer Texas cave with the rest of your Nazi pals white supremicist pals and their muslimo-terrorists buddies.
You know All Moonbat's Eve isn't till Nov 7 this year.
Biodegradable:
Mitchell Pennington, Tx.:
Hello, Dumbass?
'withdrew' from Gaza? I don't think so. Israel kept air control; border control;
Border control?
Militants open border between Egypt, Gaza
Gunmen blast hole in Gaza-Egypt border
500 Palestinians storm Gaza from Egypt
Want more?
http://search.news.yahoo.com/sea...+border+gaza&
c=
PJF:
Hopefully Natalie or one of the other B-BBC bloggers will punt all of the off-topic political rants into an off-topic thread, and this one can regain focus on the subject of the post to which it is attached.
[See confession later on - NS.]
Edited By Siteowner
knacker:
Bit fuzzy here, can anyone help? Didn't Israel kick the BBC out of the country a couple of years ago?
And if then, why not now?
Biodegradable:
This BBC piece sounds like it was written by one the recent trolls... maybe it was!
Israel's Hezbollah headache
By Jonathan Marcus
BBC diplomatic correspondent
The confrontation between Israel and Hezbollah is clearly unbalanced. Israel is a significant military power with sophisticated land, sea and air forces at its disposal.
...
None of these are guided or accurate systems but if the target is an urban area, accuracy is not needed.
Not needed if you just want to kill as many people as possible, but it needs to be accurate if you don't want to be accused of War Crimes... Ooops, I forgot, only Israel commits War Crimes.
http://hrw.org/english/docs/
2005...pa11106_txt.htm
Any party to any armed conflict is obligated to abide by international humanitarian law (the laws of war). International humanitarian law prohibits direct attacks against civilians and civilian objects as well as indiscriminate attacks and attacks that cause disproportionate damage to civilians. A prohibited indiscriminate attack includes using weapons that are incapable of discriminating between civilians and combatants or between civilian and military objects.
Human Rights Watch said that Qassam rockets, named after the armed wing of Hamas, Ezzedine al-Qassam Brigades, are by their very nature problematic weapons because it is not possible to direct them at military targets with any degree of precision... Because Qassams are not capable of accurate targeting, it is unlawful to use them in or near areas populated with civilians.
Biodegradable:
knacker, have the BBC been filming Haifa's oil refineries?
http://www.ynetnews.com/
articles...3276575,00.html
knacker:
Well, if Elias Karam is an inflatable, portable Rageh Omar...
pounce:
“Hate to break this to you but, on 2003/04 figures, Israel is ranked 8th in the world in terms of troop numbers and third in the world by the more nuanced 'combat power' measure. In both cases, the only NATO country that beats it is, unsurprisingly, the US.”
You use the figures from an article which for some strange reason comes to the conclusion that Israel has more men in uniform than Turkey.
So with that in mind could you be so kind as to explain why the country with a population of over 70 million which still has compulsory military service for all males. Which has the largest standing army in Europe (Larger than the French and British armies combined) is somehow relegated to a spot behind Israel (population 6 million) in that nice little search I presumed you did.
BTW.
That article of yours left out countries like Vietnam, Indonesia or even Egypt.
As for combat power. pray tell how China in second place was stopped at the border of Vietnam in Sept 1979 by the very same rag tag irregulars that forced out of the country American who is at 1st place. Is 3rd place India the same country that was forced to leave Sri lanka in 1990 with its tail between its legs. The same country which has been forced to purchase T90 tanks as its own indigenous tank ‘ARJUN ‘ has been found to be a white elephant. Mighty Russia in 4th place which has seen its most modern MTBs (T80) shown up for the piece of crap it really is in Chechnya.
(Strange how India, Pakistan, China and N Korea use MTBs based on the Russian models)
Pray tell how Britian, France, Germany, Italy and Japan which have some of the most modern armies in the world don’t even rank in that combat power projection. I mean all of the above have blue water navies which means they have the means to project power anywhere in the world if need be. All of the above have moved away from stack and pack em armies and gravitated towards Liddel Harts ideas of ‘Strategy’ and fluidity of movement as opposed to bashing the enemy over the head from opposing trenches. (You know the very same ideas which. Heinz Wilhelm Guderian used to such good effect)
As for saying that the only serious military contender in the region is Iran you kind of leave out Eygpt. Which is not only next door but has a military which is vastly superior to that of the IDF.(M1 tanks, Apache gunships, F16s, M109 SPGs (the same as shown on Al Beeb in use by the IDF) M60 tanks, Mirage 2000 jets, UH 60 Blackhawks)
You also left out Saudi Arabia, little Jordan (which is the only army in the region to have given the IDF a bloody nose in battle) and the even smaller UAE which according to Janes has the most potent armed forces in the region (janes vol 42 issue 46 16/11/2005 page 11)
The IDF is designed to defend Israel. To that end I think you will the vast majority of its weapon systems are designed for defensive purposes and not offensive.
The Merkava (MBT) is the only tank in the world which has its engine at the front rather than at the rear. Why because that engine affords the occupants just that little extra protection.
All of the IDF APCs are designed to protect their occupants from anti tank missile fire. Hence we have the Puma, The Anhzarit and the leviathan that is the Nagmashot.
http://www.israeli-weapons.com/w...n/
nakpadon1.jpg
Now contrast them with the Russian IFVs and APCs;BMP1/2/3 BTR 60/70/80/90 which we find scatted all around the region. Every one of those vehicles is designed for offensive purposes (i.e. going forward) and offer less protection to the occupants than the Sherman tank did to its crews during world war two.
P.S
I not only own a small library on all matters green I also read Janes on a weekly basis and its sister mag ‘Janes international defence review on a monthly basis.
(Last months (June)has a really good article on how the French army is transforming itself for the future page 44-53)
It may help if you read it too instead of quoting about it then you would know where I gleaned all of the above information from.
Lastly I think you will find that this board is about the BBC and how it has become a propaganda machine for those who would like to kill us all and not about how you somehow presume the IDF is punching above its weight.
pounce:
Misterminit wrote;
“This level of hyperbole does you no favours whatsoever.”
Hyperbole over how I stated that Al Beeb goes weak at the knees when the Taliban are mentioned.
Here please allow me to show you a few Al Beeb examples of sycophancy towards the Taliban ;
"It was just very, very exciting to be in that room with those men with their huge white teeth."
Afghan warlords have often formed unusual alliances in times of conflict, but even by their standards holding a war council in the presence of a clearly giddy beauty queen dressed in a pink jump suit and answering to the name of Snowflake was hardly standard fare.
Sitting with her was Gulbuddin Hekmatyar who is now formally designated by Executive Order 13224 of the United States Government as a Global Terrorist.”
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world...sia/
4915692.stm
Afghanistan: Taleban's second coming
Guest journalist and writer Ahmed Rashid on why Afghanistan is facing a resurgent Taleban movement.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world...sia/
5029190.stm
Can’t be asked to read.
No problem here’s a link to the AL Beeb video hit list (strange how the Taliban forbid the moving picture format as unIslamic.
http://search.bbc.co.uk/cgi-bin/...e=all&
edition=d
CAIR to share your findings?
AntiCitizenOne:
Graphic (i.e. don't click if you are easily shocked) Pictures of the attack on Haifa train station.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focu...s/1666600/
posts
Rick:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world...rope/
326653.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/speci...sovo/
271265.stm
http://www.medialens.org/article...01/
de_marr.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
Kos...ombing_campaign
So-called "dual-use" targets, of use to both civilians and the military, were attacked: this included bridges across the Danube, factories, power stations, telecommunications facilities and — particularly controversially — the headquarters of Yugoslavian Leftists, a political party led by Milošević's wife, and the Serbian state television broadcasting tower. Some saw these actions as violations of international law and the Geneva Conventions in particular. NATO however argued that these facilities were potentially useful to the Serbian military and that their bombing was therefore justified. The alliance also maintained that it tried very hard to avoid civilian casualties during its bombing campaign.
https://www.cato.org/dailys/05-18...s/05-18-
99.html
http://www.unobserver.com/layout...p?id=1549&
blz=1
prasad:
bbc is fit for documentaries made abt africa.in issues like terrorism.....islamic terrorism(obvious one)...they r too biased and appease the muslim group.
dave t:
pounce: Be aware that when I am PM, YOU, Sir are going to be my Defence Secretary because you have a better idea of what defence matters are about than the CGS, CDS, BBC, assorted moonbats who think one article tells them everything they need to know, and the Tenth Sea Lord!
(And archduke is going to the Foreign Office by the way, natalie to culture sport and control of BBC bias whilst Andrew is headed for Home Secretary since he never stands for any nonsense!)
Murphy:
Congrats pounce on reading Janes. I read the Economist so therefore I know everything.
BTW, putting the engine in front does not turn a tank into a defensive weapon. The same could be said of the armor itself. It’s that long pointy tube that blows things up and those very fast tracks that make a tank an offensive weapon.
I give up, what’s the use…..
dave t:
Murph: putting the engine in front shows that you want to defend your crewmens/womens' lives more than enhance the offensive capacity of the mobile weapon system...engine at front equals smaller engine less power less range etc! It also makes the tank more vulnerable to being put out of service but increases the survival of the crewmen and the four infantrymen carried in the back of the Merkava for example. Oh and they use the compartment at the back to ferry wounded soldiers OFF the battlefield. What civilised people they are - thinking about their men and women first and not treating them as mere cogs in a machine.
Pounce and many others here don't just read Janes dear boy we've been there done that and got the bloody T shirt....with things like Gulf, Bosnia and "Freezing in Poland on Exercise Again" on them! I would listen to pounce rather than a moonbat who quotes articles which then totally undermine the crap line it (the moonbat) was trying to push.....
archduke:
"israelly cool" has lots of updates today:
http://www.israellycool.com/
"Friends of the IDF" have an emergency fund raising campaign at the moment:
http://www.fidf.org/news/details...=36&
categoria=1
there are other fund raisers linked on his page - zaka, magen david adom and others.
archduke:
"thinking about their men and women first and not treating them as mere cogs in a machine."
they even went as far as trading several hundred terrorist prisoners for the BODIES of three dead Israeli soldiers a few years ago.
pounce:
"Congrats pounce on reading Janes. I read the Economist so therefore I know everything."
You'll be glad to know I have subscribed to the Economist for the past 12 years.
(Mind you I must admit I don’t think I’ve ever read an issue from cover to cover)
In fact I have this Fridays issue in front of me.
Page 59
The Crisis widens is something of a good read.
Tell me what do you think of line 11 second column of that page?
As for your synopsis of the Israeli Merkava I feel it is somewhat flawed
Simply having a huge gun and beating the other guy to the punch kind of omits the fact that Israel is not only surrounded by the enemy, but also outnumbered by them.
(Have a butchers at the tank battles fought between Syria and Israel during the Yom Kippur war. Facing 177 centurion and Shermans were over 1400 T62 and T55, as opposed to Israel’s 11 artillery batteries Syria had 115 and against Israel’s 200 infantry men manning the defence line Syria pitted 40,000. I’m sure that you’ll agree that the 115mm and 100mm guns of the Modern Syrian tanks out punched the WW2 vintage centurion and Sherman’s.)
But going back to your big gun theory. The Merkava when it premiered was armed with the British 105mm gun. (Everybody else at the time had progressed onto 120 and 125mm) But hey size isn’t everything (as my better half keeps on telling me) The first combat loss of the T72 was due to a IDF Centurion armed with that 105mm gun.
As for the tracks up to the Mark 2 of the Merkava the top speed was 46kmh. The M1 and the leopard can touch 72kmh. The T72 hits 60 kmh. So why did General Tal design his tank for such a slow speed.? Because he knew that Israel’s battles would be fought on her borders against invading armies and on ground of their choice. Consequently while it has a very slow forward speed it has the best undercarriage in the world which allows it to traverse difficult terrain (Golan perhaps) at a faster speed than its peers without it throwing a track and smashing its crew into a bloody mess.
Natalie Solent:
PJF said, "Hopefully Natalie or one of the other B-BBC bloggers will punt all of the off-topic political rants into an off-topic thread, and this one can regain focus on the subject of the post to which it is attached."
I've got to be frank here - yes, I really ought to do that but it's already too big. Would take ages to cut and paste. Sorry.
Allan@Aberdeen:
It is the usual claim of the lefty/islamofascist type that Israel has the best armed forces etc. and that they can always beat the muslims anyway. The simple retorts should be:
why do the Jews have to have the best armed forces and, what would be the consequences to the Jews of Israel of a defeat to the muslims?
archduke:
interesting stuff on the Merkava on wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merkava
"Following the Six-Day War and the French embargo on Israel, the IDF signed a deal with the United Kingdom for joint development of a new main battle tank—the Chieftain tank. In 1969, following Arab pressure, the British cancelled the deal with Israel and expelled them from the Chieftain project."
in other words, Brits being dhimmis led to the Merkava.
gordon-bennett:
I noticed this on the beeb1 news at 19.35.
They reported the missile strike on Haifa but did not point out (much less emphasise) that hisbolox are targetting civilians. No casualties shown.
Contrast this with the report from Lebanon. Whilst they did say that this was an infrastructure target they not only didn't report the IDF policy of not deliberately attacking civilians but they then showed civilian casualties in shocking detail obviously meant to appeal to the emotions (by showing an injured child for instance).
In other words they played down the inhumanity of the terrorists and overplayed the accidental casualties of the IDF.
I phoned 08700 100 222 (beeb information) and made a complaint. They said they would log the complaint and the log would go to editors, etc.
I wonder if they will count my complaint as an indicator that their plan is working?
Anyway (as I usually say) at least it made me feel better.
Rick:
But going back to your big gun theory. The Merkava when it premiered was armed with the British 105mm gun. (Everybody else at the time had progressed onto 120 and 125mm
Yes but the British gun was rifled and others use smooth-bore
archduke:
bbc news 10'o clock - going on about the "15,000 british nationals" in Lebanon.
are there any British nationals in Israel?
PJF:
"Would take ages to cut and paste. Sorry."
No problem, Natalie. Sometimes the moonbat effect is overwhelming.
rgds
Peter
.
Biodegradable:
are there any British nationals in Israel?
Probably a lot of dual nationality Brit/Israelis, at least half a dozen of my family - like Cpl. Shalit is a dual French/Israeli citizen. In those cases it seems only Israel takes their part of the citizenship seriously.
archonix:
Rick, rifling isn't everything. You can have rifling all you want, but when you're outnumbered 20 to one the odds aren't really in your favour. Plus, a 105mm gun is probably less useful against tanks that are designed to withstand larger calibre shells. Those russian tanks were built like bricks. Anything below 120mm would often just bounce off them.
What's the point of this argument? Israel has always been outnumbered, that's not in dispute, is it? And Israel has never prosecuted any wars of aggression. Every war they've fouight has been a reaction to someone elses aggression. Their actions, coupled with the make-up of the armed forces, show a nation more comitted to defence than offence. If they were truly offensive in nature they'd adopt more mobile infantry and light cavalry tanks designed for expeditionary assaults. Remember, to reach any objectives in, say, Jordan, or even Lebanon, they have to travel a *long* way. Much further than they're traelling now. Much further than their equipment is apparently designed to travel.
jasonr602:
Kidnapped Israeli soldiers
While Israel responds with disproportionate collective punishment, let us remember that in July 1947 jewish terrorists kidnapped British Army sergeants Martin and Paice, degraded them and then slowly hung them in an olive grove using thin wire and boobytrapped the bodies, resulting in further injuries to British troops. a year earlier the same group, Irgun, had killed many British soldiers in bombing the King David Hotel in Jerusalem.
The perps ended up as legit politicians.
Will the BBC remember Martin and Paice on the anniversary of their deaths, 31 July? Will Blair order two minutes silence? Will Lord Levy collect donations?
Biodegradable:
jasonr602 - and your point about BBC bias is... what exactly?
Jack Bauer:
"jewish terrorists kidnapped British Army sergeants Martin and Paice..."
Pay attention Jason ... according to the BBC, soldiers can only be "captured," and not "kidnapped."
Jack Bauer:
"While Israel responds with disproportionate collective punishment."
Says you Jason -- and who are you again?
Roxana:
Jason seems to be forgetting about those 'home-made' rockets.
Go Israel Go!
Roxana:
PS: Jason also doesn't mention what if anything the British did in retaliation.
Roxana:
I see why Gerbil has chosen that handle, he has the intellect and memory of a Gerbil.
Remember Camp David when Yasser Arafat turned down a Palestinian State and went home to start a new infitada?
Remember how the Palestinian people elected a terrorist Group with the stated purpose of destroying Israel as their government.
Remember how Gaza became a launching ground for rocket attacks on Israeli territory?
Your beloved Palleys are murderous thugs who have no interest in the two state solution or any solution that includes Israel's continued existence.
Now that might be okay by you but there are a few people outside of Israel who object to genocide.
Roxana:
I hate to say it but I agree with Gerbil001. It's always been my personal opinion that the US, UK and its Commonwealth and Israel could together take on and defeat the rest of the world - and may have to.
Granted the Italians seem to be looking up militarily speaking but *France* wining a war against *anybody*?? Get real!
the_camp_commandant:
I had never come across any of Jeremy Bowen's "reporting" until I read his book on the Six Day War recently.
I will not bore everyone with the details, but essentially, he would have us believe it was all the Jews' fault. Any reasonable nation, 22 years after someone attempted to wipe people of their religion off the face of the earth, would have laughed off the radio broadcasts from Cairo, and all that stuff about liquidation and genocide stuff. It was obviously not to be taken seriously, see? If only Israel had had Mr. Bowen's pragmatism and insight back in 1967.
Instead Israel did wicked things like bombing machine-gun positions in built-up areas, killing civilians in doing so. Bowen has nothing to say about why the Palestinians has machine-gun positions among houses. As far as he's concerned it's perfectly reasonable to put a machine-gun position in a built-up area and any deaths caused when it is destroyed from the air are the fault of the people who destroyed it, not of the disgusting people who tried to hide among civilians.
The whole book is in the same vein. Bowen is completely bought into the idea of der ewige Jude and I would no more trust a "news" report from him than I'd shake hands with Julius Streicher.
Jeremy and Julius would get along just fine, however.
the_camp_commandant:
Jason's point, I guess, is that it's OK for the BBC to hate Jews.
Umbongo:
Well it's fairly obvious that despite the rhetoric http://memri.org/bin/articles.cg...a=sd&
ID=SP86705
Hassan Nazrullah doesn't mean what he says and is actually seeking a dialogue with Israel. Accordingly MEMRI must be distorting the translation and only Bowen and Thorpe know the real truth.
buyingisraeligoods:
I heard the coverage on Radio 4 this morning on Today.
Rarely do I have a moment to congratulate Margaret Beckett, but when Naughtie spoke about "disproportianate response", she retaliated that Hezbollah had also given a "disproportionate response".
Naughtie lost his cool, and really threw his toys out of the pram, while Beckett responded calmly.
Then, one of the BBC reporters spoke of the "terrorism" of Israeli bombs, a word not used to describe what Hezbollah has been doing.
ytba:
Placentinian Perfidy
http://www.freeman.org/m_online/...ug02/
beres1.htm
It's what should be blairing from all the news media. The UN and EU should be screaming for it to stop. But instead they defend and enable the perps, and blame and thwart the victims.
Ralph:
'I will not bore everyone with the details, but essentially, he would have us believe it was all the Jews' fault.'
And yet the BBC think he'll give unbiased reports from the Middle East. At least he hasn't cried over dead terrorists...yet.
andy:
One major (and probably only major) error for Baronness Thatcher was not to eliminate BBC funding.
Mr. Blair? Anyone? BBC today is pretty much the same as the old Soviet Pravda.
Time has changed. BBC has not. I trust I wil live to see the day when BBC is no more.
Andy
nomadscot:
"I trust I wil live to see the day when BBC is no more."
You have so lived, Andy. The once proud and unbiased BBC has long since vacated the airwaves,and retired to it's comfortable cottage in the Cotswolds. Their wavelengths, their hedonistic headquarters and their well equipped studios, even their very logo, have been insiduously taken over by a far more sinister broadcasting organisation - Al Beebeezeera Television.
Only the funding remains the same.
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