The French will certainly come out in force to defeat LGF.
4jkb4ia | Homepage | 01.13.06 - 2:00 am | #

Though I am unsure of how many people have voted, I am sure that you've skewed the results of the JIB poll, sir. I know this comment will be fodder for hyper-zealous Zionist sites and Malkin-types, but fuck them.

The point I'm trying to make: The General commands such a large following for a good reason: Most people have a good sense of humor AND strongly sympathize with what he is saying. Look at the the number of people who have voted with the General on Kate O'Bierne's latest waste of lumber. If the General was a lone voice in the wilderness then his comments would measure 0.0 on the internet's political Richter scale. But we ALL know that is far from the truth.

The view that gentiles in the US have regarding Israel cannot AT ALL be discounted. Of course, the hyper-Zionists have latched onto the American Christian fundies. They have been your most vociferous proponents in the West. HUGE mistake. I think Pat Robertsons's recent remarks about Ariel Sharon says it all.

It comes down to this: Do you want destruction? Without a doubt, the Israeli armed forces are second to none. But nukes pretty much negate that advantage. Yes, the whole world knows you possess at least 100 - 200 nukes. But if Iran can deploy 6 - 10 nukes in your general direction, what difference will it make? As a child of the Cold War I am completely familiar with MAD (Mutually Assured Destruction). Are you willing to take a crap-shoot that MAD will work with an Iranian president who denies the Holocaust?

Shall I go on and on? We ALL know the stakes that are involved. I believe that Jews have a right to exist. I believe that they have suffered unmerciful persecution at the hands of gentiles. Does this entitle them to a parcel of land that has been occupied by Arabs for numerous centuries? I say NO!! Two wrongs most assuredly do NOT make a right. Anti-semitism is completely reprehensible. But to think that real estate will be the solution to everyone's problem is a pipe dream.

To be clear, I only speak for myself. I respect dissenting views, provided that they are not hateful or racist.

Let the MEANINGFUL debate begin.
John | 01.13.06 - 2:28 am | #

From Zion Report:

"To allow a sworn enemy, who actively supports the destruction of the nation who pays his salary, to maintain his position is suicidal at best."

Look North, mate.

For a while, the Bloc Quebecois formed "The Queen's Loyal Opposition" in the Canadian government, despite their prime goal being to remove Quebec from the Dominion. During the current election, the BQ is taking part in nation televised debates, despite only having members running in Quebec. One of the hobbies of the BQ (and it's provincial equal, the Parti Quebecois) whenever they get power is to push for a referendum in that province to seperate it from Canada.

It adds a certain 'frission' to what are otherwise mostly quite dull campaigns, I must say.
Thursday | Homepage | 01.13.06 - 2:40 am | #

I worry about the well-being of some of the bloggers you mention, General. Are Cheetos kosher, and if not, what do they consume? Is it common for Israeli mothers to let their unemployed adult children live in their basement? Since Israel has compulsory military service, how do the conservative bloggers over there get out of their obligations so that others can serve in their stead?
Major Woody | 01.13.06 - 2:52 am | #

The only way I can see to settle this is for Israel to give up the occupied territories and for the Palestinians to give up the right of return. Under the current leadership, neither of those things will happen. Instead, we'll see apartheid in Israel and huge concentration camps surrounded by settlements in the occupied territories. Palestinian birthrates dictate this. It's the only way a Jewish state can survive if it follows its current policies. Even that survival will be short-lived. One will nuke the other sooner than later if the the situation isn't diffused by the creation of a viable Palestinian state.

Of course, the fundies know this. That's why they support the status quo. They think they're setting the stage for Jesus to return.
patriot | Homepage | 01.13.06 - 2:57 am | #

John, I have about as much sympathy for zionism as...well, nothing pretty much. I think the whole damn thing will rot away like old school South Africa if it acts nice and end nasty like French Algeria if it doesn't.

I don't think "debate" is going to mean shit one way or another. Debate till hell freezes over see where that goes. Give Iran a few hundred nukes, you think that's scarier than Netanyahu or Sharon with the football?

Anyway, the whole concept was beyond the scope of Zionism. It was why in the hell redneck, American Exceptionalist, assholes get a pass into JIBA awards.
Ed Marshall | Homepage | 01.13.06 - 2:58 am | #

Of course, the fundies know this. That's why they support the status quo. They think they're setting the stage for Jesus to return.

Our Good General ended the debate at 2:57am. "They're setting the stage for Jesus to return."

You can't top that with logic.
You just can't.

Here's something else that can't be beat with logic or compromises, posted by Smooth Stone: "Based on what our sages teach us, it is a horrendous sin against G-d to renounce this inheritance to which Israel is entitled. Israel holds these lands as a sacred trust for the Jewish people in perpetuity."

And that is the crux of the problem. Can't bring logic to a knife fight.
::mwah:: | 01.13.06 - 4:02 am | #

I vehemently contested LGF's inclusion in the JIBs. You can even see my post about it on the nominations page. It came before any nominations were made.
Mobius | Homepage | 01.13.06 - 5:21 am | #

oh, one way to rub it in their faces is to be sure that jewschool wins, at least, for best politics.

we're the only jewish website with a massive readership to ask hard questions like this.
Mobius | Homepage | 01.13.06 - 5:30 am | #

And look who supported LGF: Soccer Dad and Smooth Stone.

patriotboy | Homepage | 01.13.06 - 6:04 am | #

hell, please do what you can to support jewschool and orthodox anarchist (my other site) in every category in which they're nominated.
Mobius | Homepage | 01.13.06 - 7:14 am | #

You know, Jesus' General or whatever you call yourself, even lying about people demands a small portion of thinking, something you seem to lack.
If you bothered to read the blog, or even the specific post you're writing about, your ignorance would be less aparrent and people might actually mistake you for a wise person and not the factose-intolerant imbecile you are.

The photo in my blog, is of Lazer, an Israeli. He's as "brown" as I am.
Or am I a fake "brown man"? The joke is about him being a beached whale and it would take you the enormous effort of reading the entire post to understand this message.

Dividing the world into groups of people according to colours and races and describing every conflict as a racial problem is a symptom.
The desease is stupidity, more specificly, racism.
Cure yourself.
Onlyinisrael | Homepage | 01.13.06 - 7:46 am | #

Hey, Onlyinisrael!

Thanks for straightening us out. You rightly chide The General, or whatever he calls himself, for not understanding from your post that the man being beaten is, in your words, "a scumbag pure and simple," "an Israeli, and a self-hating Jew,". Of course! If he had read the text that accompanied the photo:

It's almost like I'm some sort of a prophet or something.
Just a few weeks ago I laughed about Lazer being a beached whale and getting thrown into the sea. Now look what happened.
That kinda gives a new interpretation to "go back to where you came from".

he would of course have been able to come to no other conclusion than that you were poking fun at one of your fellow countrymen, even if he is a self-loathing scumbag.

Looking through your blog, your even-handedness and objectivity is clear. You call out the schoolgirl with the raised arm for clearly giving the Nazi salute. Obviously, there is no other reason for raising one's arm above one's head than to pay homage to Adolph Hitler's odious regime. You must have a hard time putting on deodorant.

Similarly, as the raised hand salute can only be a mark of Nazi sympathies, you must recognize that a society which disenfranchises people based on their ethnicity, herds them into marginal territories, denies them any real autonomy, controls their movements and activites, exploits them as laborers, and appropriates the most desireable land for themselves, must be consciously emulating Apartheid South Africa. Or at least, that's probably what that self-hating Jew scumbag Lazer believes. We had people like him in the US during the civil rights movement in the 50's and 60's. They stood up for the the rights of blacks, and many considered them self-loathing whites. We called them "race traitors", feel free to borrow the term if you wish.

Thanks for your thoughtful comments, Onlyinjohannesburg! Oops, pardon the typo, Onlyinisrael!
Major Woody | 01.13.06 - 8:20 am | #

I'll have you know mobius that actually wrote something nice about you a few days ago at zion report... i thought orthodox anarchist should have gotten a nomination over jewlicious in israel advocacy... jewlicious is nice site, but it's more like a gossip column than an israel advocacy blog...
Tovya | Homepage | 01.13.06 - 8:51 am | #

General, sir.

Remember this is the Jerusalem Post. It may have changed ownership due to Conrad Black running in to a few issues, but it's still a Conrad Black rag.

{also note Leslie "Wolf" Blitzer is another alum of the Jerusalem Post staff}
Tom - 大肚腩 | Homepage | 01.13.06 - 9:50 am | #

Your not exactly the sharpest tool in the shed.

The awards themselves fall into different categories, as taken from this site

http://info.jpost.com/C005/BlogC...2005/ rules.html



# Best Designed Blog
# Best 'Life in Israel' Blog
# Best Jewish Religion Blog
# Best Series
# Best Post
# Best Overall Blog
# Best Jewish Culture Blog
# Best Jewish Humor Blog
# Best Israel Advocacy Blog
# Best Politics and Current Affairs Blog
# Best Personal Blog
# Best New Blog 2005

# Best Overall 'Mega' Blog
# Best Podcast
# Best 'Student Life' Blog
# Best Group Blog
# Best of Rest

Most of the categories simply require that you have a blog about Israel or Judaism. Charles Johnson won his award the award for best advocacy and I think best mega blog (but I think I'm wrong on the latter).

Are you saying that only Jews can advocate for Israel?
Some dude | 01.13.06 - 9:53 am | #

As long as powerful factions on both sides support the violence, Israel will never see any peace. It will reap what it sows to the tune of many more dead Israelis and Palestinians.

And those who cannot work for peace will have only their ignorant racist rhetoric to thank -on Both sides.

Arabs and Jews ARE the same race and people- They just let their limited minds think that they are any different.

It's like Irish Catholics and Irish Protestants killing each other over England's conquest of Ireland over 400 years ago-

Stupidity. Plain and simple. When you can finally let go of your hate, the violence will end. You will never "Kill them all" as you wish and neither will they "kill you all"

Stupidity.
Fade | Homepage | 01.13.06 - 9:59 am | #

It's amazing that someone would think that something called the Jewish and Israeli Blog Awards wouldn't be limited to Jews and Israelis. I wonder if I can get an Oscar for best picture at the Academy of Motion Pictures Arts and Sciences Awards?
patriotboy | Homepage | 01.13.06 - 10:27 am | #

Sir,
I'm a little jealous. I'd like to have an Italian Catholic Award. We know from this particular example that we don't need to have an Italian Catholic blog. We just need to have a blog that's willing to pimp a few of our ideas and let us rant.
Jackie_O | 01.13.06 - 10:41 am | #

Dear Onlyinisrael,

Your blog is so cool, what with the pictures and captions and such. I think it would be awesome to have a picture of you being beaten by soldiers, and then we could caption it:

That kinda gives the usual interpretation to "feel pain you stupid fuck!"

Wouldn't that be great, and funny, and stuff?
Moominpapa | 01.13.06 - 10:46 am | #

General! Sir!

What's it worth to you, sir? One of my friends is a member of the Academy, sir!

Respectfully,
JillK. | Homepage | 01.13.06 - 10:46 am | #

I always enjoy seeing people talk out of their ass in an attempt to prop themselves up and feel good.

It is very easy to buy into propaganda and simplistic explanations about who owns what and who did what to who.

It is far more difficult to actually dig into the truth and learn what the realities are.

That is one of the problems in the world, far too many sheep who are willing to just go along.
Jack | Homepage | 01.13.06 - 11:16 am | #

The guy "onlyinisrael" is calling a beached whale, Lazer, is an Israeli who was raised in an ultra-Orthodox Hasidic family. An intensely learned Talmud scholar, he left his community a number of years ago and is now a Palestinian solidarity activist.

I've actually hung out with him a few times and he's a total sweetheart. It takes cruel people to make mean jokes about people they've never met simply because they disagree politically. And that certainly speaks to no Jewish value with which I'm aquainted.

Which is part of why your support would be appreciated in helping Jewschool beat out the ethnocentrists and the religious nationalists -- it can help demonstrate that such "values" should not be rewarded.
Mobius | Homepage | 01.13.06 - 11:38 am | #

I objected to LGF's nomination last year, and should have renewed my protest this year.

I fail to understand how a blog can be considered an advocate of Israel when it is known best for showcasing horrible and hateful comments about whole of the Muslim world. As a result, many make the mistake of presuming that anyone who supports Israel is also horrible and hateful. (I've seen it happen.) Are Israel's interests really served by a blog that makes Israel's supporters look like monsters? They aren't monsters (obviously) but you wouldn't know it from reading LGF.
DovBear | Homepage | 01.13.06 - 11:43 am | #

I agree that a vote for JewSchool helps make it clear that you can love Israel and be authentically Jewish without also thinking we have a directive from God to put houses on every square inch of Israel.

(I'd humbly suggest that a vote for DovBear (culture column A) makes the same point. )
DovBear | Homepage | 01.13.06 - 11:46 am | #

after reading all the above bigotry.I jumped to a conclusion that the only democratic nation in Middle East is Cyprus.

The above bigots make Saudi like a world's heaven.
kathy | 01.13.06 - 11:59 am | #

Your not exactly the sharpest tool in the shed.

(snip)

Some dude | 01.13.06 - 9:53 am | #

Some dude, you rock!

Telling someone else they are not very bright, while your own comment contains a glaring punctuation error in the very first word! Way to go, buddy!
Major Woody | 01.13.06 - 12:14 pm | #

Ahh...the decline and fall of the JIBs.... And they're only two years old (I think)
mirty | Homepage | 01.13.06 - 12:16 pm | #

MajorWoody.
Nice game there, comparing Israel to the Apartheid ignoring every single fact in the conflict that doesn't fit into your miniscule set of beliefs.
As for the nazi salute, let me tell you that if that's the way you put deodorant, I imagine you may refer to KKK cross burning as a birthday cake lighting.
Anyone who associates himself with the ISM, people who hide terrorist, chant racist, vile songs against the Jewish people and call in protests for the complete destruction of Israel is a self-hating Jew. Has nothing to do with supporting the Palestinian struggle, has anything to do with hating Jews.

Moominpapa.
That would be hilarious, because as an IDF soldier I was in fact violently attacked by the "peace" activists, of the ISM. It happened on daily basis in Budrus, and later on near Bil'in. I saw no captions on the photos describing what happened there.

Mobius.
"Never met"?
I saw the idiot on weekly basis in the protests against the anti-terrorist fence.
I can personaly attest that he's violent, as he punched me in the face.
How much more personal aquintance do you need with the moron?

Let's see what Jewish value do I speak of?
How about "the sanctity of life". Protecting human life at all costs, which is what the anti-terrorist fence is for.
You may use your self acclaimed title as an "anarchist" to defend vile, violent thugs, don't put judaism into that, it's outright insulting.

Kathy,
Your definition of democracy seems stupid, which, considering the forum you're posting in can be very very challenging.
Democracy is when people express different opinions freely. Like me and mobious here, two Israelis, free to have different opinions. Good luck with that in Saudi Arabia.
Onlyinisrael | Homepage | 01.13.06 - 12:19 pm | #

DovBear,
I read your blog this morning and realized how much gentiles don't get, and never will get what it means to be a Jew, a Zionist, or an Israeli from a Jew's prespective. We have our opinions, but they're based on a different life experience.
One thing reasonable people can agree on, as you have pointed out, is that political agendas exist and feed off one another for their mutual benefit regardless of affliation. You are correct. I'm sad to say the more outspoken neocon, hate speech bigots, be they Jew or Gentile, have created a wary view of Jews in some circles, and it isn't fair.
As one person to another, I admire what you've said. The cause of humankind should have no agenda greater than figuring out how not to hate. I know that's a patently ridiculous goal, since we do it so well, but we should, at the very least, try not to promote political agendas that will have us nuking one another off the face of the earth.
Jackie_O | 01.13.06 - 12:40 pm | #

Does being circumsized have anything to do with it?
BigBuddhaPuppy | Homepage | 01.13.06 - 12:40 pm | #

WOWWWW. Without LGF's I would have no website and never have even considered the idea. LGF is the BEST ISrael advocacy blog and I hope all the awards go to CJ.

My site is nominated and Im running way ahead at ONE pervent of the vote and I couldn't be more happier. I have recieved more hits from the JPOST list page recentley than any other source, thus proving that the JIB awards are doing exactly what they aim to do, spread the word.

All the best IsraellyCool, you are the coolest.

Max L
www.nicejewishboy.net
Max L | Homepage | 01.13.06 - 12:42 pm | #

Nice game there, comparing Israel to the Apartheid ignoring every single fact in the conflict that doesn't fit into your miniscule set of beliefs.

Onlyinisrael | Homepage | 01.13.06 - 12:19 pm | #

OK, perhaps I am misinformed. If we want to talk about ignoring facts, which of the observations about Israeli/Palestinian relations in my paragraph about Apartheid are not accurate?
Major Woody | 01.13.06 - 12:51 pm | #

General Sir,
I hold the opinion that anytime a group feels they have a divine right to any part of the earth, the problem will never go away. Based on my fundie up bringing (although my groups eschatology was a bit different with no Isreal-JesusKing-Rapture as literal), there are MANY fundies who closely watch the middle east. They believe the worse the situation, the closer they are to the second coming. The worst thing that could happen for them is for peace to settle in that area. If any of you want to get a flavor of this, just watch any of Jack Van Impe's shows...scary stuff.
King Spirula | 01.13.06 - 1:07 pm | #

General - I do not have the time at the moment, but I do think that you have severely misrepresented the blogs in the JIBs and their opinions. I understand you're primarily satirical, but most people would read this post and assume that Jewish/Israeli blogs are racist apartheidists, when in fact that's completely untrue.

I will try to post a counterpost on Saturday night - I hope you will check it out.
Ezzie | Homepage | 01.13.06 - 1:24 pm | #

I couldn't agree more, King Spirula. But such wisdom is to be expected from a crustacean monarch who lived in Fitchburg! Much more erudite and sophisticated than those Phillistines from Leominsta!

I originally hail from Worcester (woos-tah) myself. Every time I see the name Fitchburg, I laugh. True story: when I was a young tyke, my grandfather was extremely hard of hearing and not completely in control of his faculties. He used to sit quietly while a conversation was going on around him. Then, every once in a while, he'd perk up and ask in a loud, agressive shout, "Fitchburg?" It became a family joke, if someone didn't quite get what you said, you'd just shout "Fitchburg?". Thanks for the reminder, King Spirula.

FITCHBURG?
Major Woody | 01.13.06 - 1:32 pm | #

BigBuddhaPuppy,
Circumcision doesn't have anything to do with it, so watch for falling foreskins.
The real key is editing and spelling.
Jackie_O | 01.13.06 - 1:33 pm | #

Ez, bare in mind that this post is about one category - advocacy. Not the JIBs as a whole. Despite the exagerations, and the cherry picking, his observations about that category are not wrong: The overwhelming majority of nominees in the Israel Advocacy category express opinions that (a) make the rest of us look bad and (b) aren't in line with the thinking of the majority of Jews or the majority of Israelis.
DovBear | Homepage | 01.13.06 - 2:04 pm | #

Major Woody,

I ride the Fitchberg Line of the commuter rail every work day. I'm not sure if I'm going to be able to keep a straight face tonight when the conductor calls out the stops.

I'll try though. Thanks for the story and keep after that OII guy. Oy!

Sincerely,
JillK. | Homepage | 01.13.06 - 2:24 pm | #

Major Woody,
Are you in Chapel Hill, cause I lived in Carrboro for 3years and did research at the hospital there.
King Spirula | 01.13.06 - 2:58 pm | #

General:

Where in the world did you get the idea that Israelis are "white" people who are oppressing "brown" people?

Are you stupid or something? Or have you just never been to Israel? Half the Jews in Israel are from places like Iran, Iraq, Morocco, Egypt, Yemen, Tunisia, Algeria, and Ethiopia. Their ancestors never left the Greater Middle East and never had anything to do with "white people" or Europe.

It is typical of a certain type of person to see the situation in Israel through the prism of American racial and political categories (I assume you are American). Thus, the Arab war to destroy Israel is misinterpreted as nothing more than a "civil rights" struggle a la the Montgomery bus boycott, and the establishment of Israel is seen not as something specifically and organically Jewish, undertaken for Jewish reasons, but just another example of white colonialists oppressing poor Thrid Worlders of Color, because Israel is, you know, nothing more than a branch office of White European Colonialism International, Ltd.

I assume from your general approach that you believe that Jews are members of the privileged "white race". You're joking, right? It is true that Jews have done well in the US. But are you that ignorant of history to think that the situation of the Jews in the US bears any resemblance whatsoever to their situation in Europe and the Muslim world, where they were always oppressed and at the mercy of the whims of their Christian and Muslim overlords? Do you honestly believe that the only right that the Jews have after being murdered and robbed by just about everyone for only, oh, 2,000 years or so is to get up, dust themselves off and say "Thank you sir, may I have another?"

Zionism is the national liberation movement of the Jewish people. Israel is an imperfect solution to the problem of Jewish statelessness and oppression. Yes, Israel is a state of, by, and for Jews. There is no need to apologize for that. Or is ethnic nationalism OK for "brown" people (and of course we know that Jews are not really "brown", no matter how dark their skin is) but not for "white" people (aka privileged Jews)? If ethnic nationalism is verboten for Jews, you have to tell me why you think it is OK for the Arabs, as you appear to do.

And, yes, Israel is being foolish and suicidal to allow Arabs who actively support states and organizations who are sworn to Israel's destruction to serve in the Knesset, or even to live in Israel at all. These people are traitors and they should all be stripped of their citizenship and deported.

But since I believe in equality, let me also say that any Israeli Jew who actively supports states and organizations who are at war with Israel should be given the same treatment. A traitor is a traitor.
Ephraim | 01.13.06 - 3:03 pm | #

You are fucking filth, Ephraim.

I don't want to communicate with you or anything, that's just out there for the record.
Ed Marshall | Homepage | 01.13.06 - 3:24 pm | #

Major Woody- half my family hails from the City on Seven Hills. That should help with our secret code around here.

From now on, "State-sponsored ethnic cleansing" will be referred to as "buying yellow garbage bags at Spag's."

CJ
Catholic Jackson | 01.13.06 - 3:41 pm | #

Not a problem at all Woody, we can deal with your claims one by one.

Similarly, as the raised hand salute can only be a mark of Nazi sympathies, you must recognize that a society which disenfranchises people based on their ethnicity,

Bullshit.
This isn't about ethnicity, never was. Jews and Arabs are semites, we're part of the same ethnicity. This also isn't about Jew vs. Arab. Just a simple look at the loyal, peacefull, well educated Israeli arabs who are equal to me in every aspect shows you that it has nothing to do with ethnic or even religious differences.
Israel funds Mosques, Synagouges, Churches, and Duruz and Cerces temples proportionally. Israel has a complete equality of rights for all religions and all its citizens. Their ethnicity or religion has nothing to do with it.


herds them into marginal territories,
Who exactly did Israel "herd" and when?
Upon our declaration of independence, in that specific document Israel called our arab citizens not to flee. It's the 5 invading Arab armies that told them to leave and return after the war. A war in which they attempted to destroy Israel and lost.


"denies them any real autonomy,
Who denies Palestinians autonomy? They control their infrastracture, municipal responsibilities, they have their own system of laws, courts and taxes. They have their own parliament, for which they're currently holding elections.
They have their own police force, which can be easily defined as military, because of its enormous size and form of command. The Palesitnians could've had a state by now had they accepted Barak's offer in Camp David. They turned it down and they're still largely autonomous. What Palestinians have now, is autonomy. A state is what they want.


controls their movements and activites,
Nonsense, noone controls the movement of Palestinians inside the Palestinian authority's territory (Areas A and B). Their movements are controled when passing between such areas into Israeli land. And even then, all they have to do is cross a checkpoint. Don't you cross checkpoints when you leave YOUR country?
When the Serial Sniper was on the loose there were thousands of checkpoints all over DC. Noone whined. What if there were 20 serial snipers? now think 2000. That's what Israel is dealing with.


exploits them as laborers,
Palestinians are dying to work in Israel. Blaming Israel for the poor economic state Palestinian authority is in is ridiculous. The Palestinians had gotten astonishing amounts of aid from the UN, Europeans, and the US over the year. Had they not used that money to build nice houses for their leaders, establish Swiss bank accounts for their president and fund his wife's shopping in Paris, they could've developed a great economy by now. Instead they whine about Israel closing the gates. How about developing your own job market?


and appropriates the most desireable land for themselves,
Right... Israel conciously invaded the West Bank to get more land. It would have nothing to do with Egypt, Jordan and Syria planning an attack, or Jordanian planes bombing Israel. Ofcourse, it was all a plot to get more land. I'm sure we mind controlled Nazer and Hussein to invade. Israel got the land in a defensive war. It gave up most of it. Some of it in Peace deals never kept by Palestinians, and some of it unilaterally. If we wanted to keep desirable land, don't you think we'd keep Sinai, with its oil wells and coal mines?

I think that sums it up. Now deal with the facts.

There. Now
Onlyinisrael | Homepage | 01.13.06 - 3:53 pm | #

General:

OK, have it your way. You didn't answer any of my questions, but I didn't really expect that.

I don't think that I insulted anyone's race or advocated genocide, or anything like that, so I am not exactly sure why you flew off the handle.

The only thing I took issue with was your apparent belief that Jews are "white" people. This seems strange to me. I'm curious where you got that idea, considering that a cursory glance at the ethnic makeup of the Jewish population in Israel should show that it just isn't true. (The other question, of course, is that even if it were true, why would it matter?)

Or perhaps you are upset that I said that both Arabs and Jews who are citizens of Israel and who ally themselves with groups and states who advocate Israel's destruction are traitors and should be treated as such? I don't see how this is discriminatory. I suppose the only reason you might object to that is if you believe that Israel has no right to exist and the Arabs are actually right in their campaign to destroy it. That is, of course, a coherent political position, but not one that I support, needless to say.

For the record, I believe that in a perfect world there would be no need for Israel to exist (or any other state for that matter. One big happy family, right?). Of course, that is not the world we live in, and people organize themselves into states for various reasons. If statehood is OK for everyone else, why is it not OK for Jews? Or do you simply think that the idea of a state of, by, and for Jews is inherently racist? And if you believe that, are not states of, by, and for Arabs, Chinese, Germans, Finns, etc., just as racist? Or is it just because Israel hasn't been around long enough for people to consider it "natural"? Or is it because Jews have been without a state for so long that that is what people believe their "natural" state to be? Questions, questions.

If the Jews hadn't been oppressed and subject to attempted (and nearly successful) genocide, they would certainly have been more than happy to live their lives wherever they found themselves and wait for the Messiah to take them back when the time came. (I mean, just look at the Jews in Germany. Utter destruction was staring them in the face and they stayed until it was too late, not believing that such a thing was possible.) Things didn't work out like that, as you know, and people had to make some choices.

If G-d offered me a choice between Israel and having the 6 Million back alive and well, I would choose the 6 Million without batting an eye. But, like I said, that's not a choice that's available to me.
Ephraim | 01.13.06 - 3:54 pm | #

Ouchy, someone's cornered the market on suffering.
Si vous êtes une personne élégante vous voudrez sûrement quitter cette communauté immédiatement.
Si vous ne pouvez pas le lire alors vous ne savez pas que je vous appelle un boitement wristed le babouin.
That's all I have to say on the subject of Ephraim.
Jackie_O | 01.13.06 - 4:00 pm | #

This is dreary.

You've pulled in the National Liberation Movement to come educate everyone by reciting passages from "From Time Immemorial" like earnest fourth graders.
Ed Marshall | Homepage | 01.13.06 - 4:07 pm | #

CJ,

I miss Spagg's.

Sincerely,
JillK. | Homepage | 01.13.06 - 4:13 pm | #

Oooh, I've been isulted! In French! Man, I guess I'll just have to slink off with my tail between my legs. No way to come back from being called a limp-wristed baboon, is there?

Sigh. Never understimate the power of Babelfish, Jackie.

I studied French back in high school, so I got a bit of your drift, but the Internet is omipotent. But why did you feel you had to insult me in French? Isn't English good enough? Or are you trying to pit your sophisticated Europeanness against my mouth-breathing, knuckle-dragging Americanness?

No, I haven't cornered the market on suffering. Nobody has. But Israel exists for a very good reason. It is not because a bunch of "white" Jews just woke up one day and decided "Hey, I know! Let's kill the brown Arabs and steal all of their stuff!"

But I am still very curious as to why the General thinks Israelis are white, by which I presume he means "white" in the American sense, that they're WASPs or something. It isn't even remotely true. And I really am curious as to why the supposed racial identity of the protagonists has anything to do with the rightness or wrongness of their respective positions.

But, hey, you guys seem to live and die by the ad hominem attack. Don't let me stop you. Knock yourselves out.
Ephraim | 01.13.06 - 4:27 pm | #

Ephraim,
Bravo! You got it. Although you are right, an idiot could figure it out.
Why did I insult you in French? I thought it would be a nice change of pace. Most of the insults flying around were in English. Just a bit of fun. You do remember fun?
Jackie_O | 01.13.06 - 4:40 pm | #

Oh, I see. Le jeu continuez, n'est pas? Well, I'm glad you think I'm an idiot. The feeling is mutual, I'm sure.

Yes, I know what fun is. I just usually don't get a lot of chuckles from people who blithely assume that the violence in Israel is soley a result of "white" Jewish racism against the poor "brown people". It's utter bullshit. (And I don't think the unmoderated posts on sites like LGF necessarily reflect the attitude of the site admin.) If one's supporters are a reflection of the justice or lack thereof of one's cause, what are we to make of the Palestinain cause when government-funded PA clerics preach to the faithful about how Allah turned the Jews into monkeys and pigs? Racism, anyone?

From your posts, it appears that you yourself are Jewish, perhaps, and since you also speak French, perhaps you are Sephardic. Just for the General's edification, my experience has been that the "brown" Sephardic and Mizrachi Jews, including the Francophone Jews from North Africa, are precisely the ones who are most distrustful of the Arabs, since they are the ones who experienced Muslim oppression most directly.

For those who are interested:

http://www.jimena.org/
Ephraim | 01.13.06 - 5:06 pm | #

Ephraim,

I suppose everyone is entitled to a homeland. Provided they don't steal it from someone else. Yes, world history is replete with lands being stolen, but I thought we created the UN to prevent that. I don't deny that it's an effete organization, made only more effete by a cowboy president and his cronies. However, I didn't think its job was to sanction theft like it did when it adopted the Partition Plan in 1947.

Just one question: What moral right does one group have to take land away from another group who has lived there for centuries? Don't answer "The Bible"; a holy book for one people doesn't mean the whole world is beholden to its dictates. Don't answer "the Holocaust" either. If memory serves me it was Europeans who were responsible for that, not Arabs. To say that the creation of Israel will prevent another Holocaust is a bit naive. If Iran, Syria, Pakistan, or whoever decides to nuke Israel, will it have succeeded in protecting Jews?

Everyone knows the "land for peace" deal was implemented mainly so that Jews would not become a minority in Israel. The fear that a democracy in Israel with an Arab majority would only end in the wholesale annihilation of Jews is another favorite Zionist argument. Funny, somehow South Africa managed to end Apartheid without the wholesale slaughter of whites.

Am I dying by the ad hominem attack right now? I hope not; I'd hate to suffer the same fate of anti-Zionist Jews being labelled "self-hating Jews", and all other anti-Zionists being called "anti-Semites."
John | 01.13.06 - 5:18 pm | #

John:

Needless to say, I don't accept a single premise upon which your argument is based.

Read this and get back to me. It should answer all of your questions. I'm sure you will dismiss it as "Zionist propaganda", but you can't have everything.

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary....yths/ mftoc.html
Ephraim | 01.13.06 - 5:30 pm | #

The last time I saw that piece of trash, David Horowitz was trying to convince Ran HaCohen that "thousands" of people died during Oslo because the Jewish Virtual Library said so. No one else did, there was another site that actually listed names and circumstances that added up to 395.

Ran quit talking to him and just conceded Horowitz was the authority on Virtual Israel and apologized for the confusion. That's a good policy.
Ed Marshall | Homepage | 01.13.06 - 5:48 pm | #

By the way, Jesus' General, there are brown Jews as there are olive-skinned Jews as there are jet-black Jews as there are pasty-white Jews.
Johnsam | 01.13.06 - 5:58 pm | #

onlyinisrael,

You are that fucking idiot,a-hole.

God forbid brainwashed idiot like you realize Israelis are fleeing their nation to work in Germany instead, that Israel has to set quota on its people's emigration to a better world.

Bear in mind, our tax money is paying for your lives there.so shut up.
anonymous | 01.13.06 - 6:25 pm | #

Ephraim,
I did not call you an idiot! I was using the word idiot in a universal sense.
I didn't get into the whole skin color argument, so we'll skip that.
How could you tell whether I'm Jewish from my posts?
Well, Here's what I know. My father's mother was a Polish Jew. His parents couldn't stand her. When my grandfather died at the age of 39, they saw that he was buried near deceased relatives. She eventually got remarried to a Jew. My father adored his mother and bought a burial plot for her near his father. We would go every Memorial Day to lay flowers. I still do this to this day.
My family is a crazy quilt melting pot, sometimes good, sometimes bad. It depends on the attitudes of certain individual relatives. As for me, It's all good.
By the way, I have a Yahrzeit candle that my sister-in-law (she is Jewish) gave me when my mother died. What is the significance?
Jackie_O | 01.13.06 - 6:29 pm | #

Ephraim, all God's chosen are white and delightsome people. It says so in the Book of Mormon.
Gen. JC Christian, patriot | Homepage | 01.13.06 - 6:42 pm | #

all God's chosen are white and delightsome people. It says so in the Book of Mormon

Hear, hear, General!

Ephraim, get with the program.
SED | 01.13.06 - 7:11 pm | #

Ephraim, I briefly scanned the info you linked, and you're right: I do view it as Zionist propaganda. If this seems dismissive I'd like to point out that it's no more dismissive than saying you "don't accept a single premise upon which [my] argument is based." Sure, there are facts at that website, liberally sprinkled with distortions, omissions, and speculations, many of whose premises I also reject.

So here we are; no one's opinion has changed. You have not offered me compelling evidence to change my mind, and the 'premises' I put forward have been summarily dismissed by you, thereby leaving your opinion unaltered as well, so I'll mention just one more thing that distinctly sets us apart: I don't go trolling on opposing view websites seeking a never-ending debate. I'm not against opposing views being posted here or anywhere else, but to go on and on when you know it's pointless is annoying. You've made your opinions abundantly clear to everyone; we've heard your arguments and counter-arguments. Now let it go. Go to sympathetic websites and tell everyone how you kicked our asses. Copy and paste the whole thread for all I care.

But please move along now.
John | 01.13.06 - 7:24 pm | #

Thank you for that well=informed post, anonymous, and for failing to adress any of the points I raised.
Personal insults rather than facts, implies a failure, which you are.
If anyone wishes to contest what I have said, he's invited to do so, either here, in my mailbox or in my blog.
Onlyinisrael | Homepage | 01.13.06 - 8:31 pm | #

Geesh, does Ephraim actively support carving out large portions of Europe to provide Lebensraum for the persecuted Romansch, who are still subject to discrimination and violence in Europe and were subject to Hitler's Final Solution in the exact same way as the Jews?

And yes, please ignore the reality of ownership of the media. The fact that ABC is owned by Disney wouldn't taint their reporting in the least.

The fact that Wizbang ran those other blog awards *wink wink* wouldn't affect the nomination of finalists.

And the fact that the Jerusalem Post is a hot bed of radical right neo-cons wouldn't skew the choice of finalists to allow for purveyors of eliminationist rhetoric and racism like the Little Green Raelians.

And whatever you do, be sure to forget that Leslie "Wolf" Blitzer's career runs tight with Conrad Black's group. Otherwise you might lose track of them being the evil lie-brul media.
Tom - 大肚腩 | Homepage | 01.13.06 - 8:34 pm | #

General! Sir!

Wouldn't it be funny, sir, if you attracted a handful of trolls who chided you for not reading their blogs after not reading yours enough to learn about things such as satire, the Eternal War to Re-subjugate the Sorta-brown folks and why we speak French from time to time?

No, I don't think so, either, sir! This is why I'm a Pastafarian, sir! Extremely loose moral standards lead to good humor and a certain flexibility of mind. Plus, when I insult people, they really deserve it!

Respectfully,
JillK. | Homepage | 01.13.06 - 9:09 pm | #

Onlyinisrael, I don't talk to the species of zionist that coughs out ahistorical bullshit like you did. I don't do it because I think you guys are dumb, it's because I figured out a few years ago you are lying and don't really care.

It "feels" right, so it's ok to gloss over inconvienent historical facts (like you did earlier) or to just flat ass make shit up like your many beatings at the hands of ISM activists (who somehow didn't get Tom Hundeled). It's like arguing with holocaust deniers or creationists, if they happen to get caught out they will simply find someone new to lie to.
Ed Marshall | Homepage | 01.13.06 - 9:10 pm | #

Ephraim --

I generally post here using a nom de satire but for the first time I'm commenting under my real name.

I spent many of my formative years living in the American South and in Israel. You say, Where in the world did you get the idea that Israelis are "white" people who are oppressing "brown" people?

Are you stupid or something? Or have you just never been to Israel? Half the Jews in Israel are from places like Iran, Iraq, Morocco, Egypt, Yemen, Tunisia, Algeria, and Ethiopia. Their ancestors never left the Greater Middle East and never had anything to do with "white people" or Europe.

How extremely ironic. It's true -- as you say -- that half the Jews in Israel are from Africa and the Middle East, but what you conveniently ignore is that these Jews are second-class citizens. (Not legally, of course -- all Israelis have the same rights, but you "wouldn't want your daughter to marry one," if you know what I mean.)

Half of Israeli Jews are indeed "brown," but as in much of the world it's the "wrong" half. How many Oriental Israelis have been Prime Minister? How many have held cabinet posts? More today than 20 years ago, true, but still precious few. And let's not even start talking about the Falashim (Jews from Ethiopia, for the goyim onboard).

I have heard Occidental Israelis use terms to describe Oriental Israelis that would have made some of the worst racists in the American South blush.

When I lived in Israel I had a boyfriend, Moshe, who was Moroccan. My Ashkenazi friends couldn't understand why a nice "gingi" girl like me was interested in a boy like that.

Sure, Israel is a multicultural society. Sure, there are both "black" and "white" Israeli Jews. But Israel is very much run by the white/Ashkenazi/Occidental Jews and analogies with other imperialist Western powers are entirely apt.

I've lived in the American South. Heck, I'm old enough to remember the days of the "White" and "Colored" drinking fountains. I've lived in Israel. I think my experience makes me pretty well qualified to make a one-to-one comparision between the two, and in my experience the average Israeli is far more racist than the average American Southerner.
Gila | 01.13.06 - 11:01 pm | #

Wow, I liked this discussion better when Mobius and Dovbear were begging for votes.

Don't vote for Jewlicious, we suck!

The conversation did take a bit of a nasty turn, unfortunately, with the Zionist-hating, supercilious Marshall and the Zionist-lovin', abrasive hothead, Ephraim.

The truth, as always, lies somewhere in the middle. There surely are some Zionists today who are scum, but there are actually many more who adhere to historic Zionism and are fair and decent people. As example one, consider that Kadima, Sharon's new party is able to garner more poll votes than either the historically right wing Likud or the historically left of center Labor.

What does Kadima want? Essentially to find a peaceful resolution to the conflict. If there's a Palestinian counterpart, they'll talk. If there isn't, they'll do it unilaterally. Peaceful resolution, however, is what they seek.

What did Zionism want? To enable self-determination for Jews on their historic homeland. How did they go about it? Primarily through land acquisition and the working or development of that land. Was their objective to evict anyone? No, their objective was to emulate other nationalist Western movements and to establish a democratic Jewish state where all citizens are equal. In fact, that is precisely what the Declaration of Independence declares.

Did they, the Zionists, get sidetracked by attacks and wars? Unfortunately, yes. Did that define both the nature and size of the state of Israel upon its founding? Surely.

But there is no question that a peaceful movement was attacked and forced to fight back. Some people would like to ignore that and claim theft of land or evil intentions. Things are actually not that black and white at all. Did the Palestinians suffer? Surely. Sadly for them, they were on the wrong side of the fighting, both in its initiation and the subsequent losses.

Too many Palestinian supporters dream of Israel's destruction. Right, Ed Marshall? They want to see it replaced with...another Arab country. They pray to see another Arab country there because so many have proven themselves to be bastions of fairness, decency and democracy.

But the Israelis have a right to self-determination that is as strong a right, if not stronger, than the Palestinians. Palestinian scholars will tell you that, optimistically, there may have been a few winks of Palestinian nationalism in the early 20th Century. They will usually, however, point people to the mid-'30s and in some cases that mid-'60s (that is not a typo) as the nascence of Palestinian nationalistic self-awareness. Contrast this with two millenia of Jews living in the Land of Israel, while the majority living outside of it dreaming and praying for their return to it. "Next year in Jerusalem" has been on the lips of praying Jews for centuries, if not millenia.

Yet, for some reason, some people think this isn't justification for a state or for Jewish self-determination. Somehow, Palestinian self-detemination takes precedence. Not only they. The Jordanians can have it, although they have no history to speak of. The Saudis can have it, and they have no history to speak of. These state are constructs of the West to a far greater degree than Israel. And yet, do we hear someone complain about those states in terms of opposition to their statehood? Nope, of course not. Of course, Arab states are not the only constructs these Zionist-haters support. They think the Americans can have their state as well and so can Canadians - screw native Americans. But Israelis? Oh no, let's all protest.

The Palestinians can get their own state - this has been in reach since the year 2000. But first, they need to figure out how to govern themselves and become peaceful toward Israel. People like Marshall who advocate about Israel's supposed immorality seem to forget that the option for the Palestinians is there. Give up the terrorism, govern themselves peacefully, and negotiate in a manner that accepts Israeli self-determination. By the way, even Israel's key international detractor, the UN, agrees with me. This is the basis of Security Council Resolutions 242 and 338.


Oh and Marshall, I am not lying nor is it I don't care. My support for Israel is unequivocal with respect to its right to exist as a Jewish state. That doesn't mean it isn't flawed or that the situation is a pleasant one and Israel can't be criticized. Then again, many countries can be criticized but something tells me you save your passionate attacks for Israel.

One more thing: I think you are wrong, and from a morality standpoint, I think you stink. You see, I believe the Palestinians should have a state. I also think that because of supporters like you around the world, they are far too confident that somehow they will get that state by destroying Israel and not by making peace. In the meantime, Israel simply becomes more entrenched and the Palestinians do not move forward because their focus is on Israel's destruction. Today, 65% of Israelis were born inside Israel. On the other hand, 90% of Palestinians were born outside of it. In 2000, at Taba, Israel offered far more than what the Palestinians will get if the separation fence becomes a de facto border. Think about that every time you make one of these blanket generalizations about Israel's supporters or Zionists.
The Middle | Homepage | 01.14.06 - 2:36 am | #

Gila,

The current President of Israel is a Mizrahi (Easterner), so is the Minister of Defense, so is the Foreign Minister, so is the head of the Labor party which is historically Israel's second largest party.

There is no question that at one time in the country's early years, there were far deeper problems with respect to one group being far richer and more powerful than the other. However, this didn't happen in a vaccum, nor did it happen because of bigotry. The most difficult years for many Eastern and Arab Jews (Mizrahim) were Israel's early years after its founding.

In those years, very few resources were available to the poor country, and it was doubling its population in just a matter of several years. Imagine the US going from, say, 150 million people to 300 million people in about 8-10 years. Would those new members of society integrate immediately? How would they be housed? How would they be fed? Would those who are already here and established share their resources or wealth or homes, or would these newcomers have to fend for themselves with some government assistance?

That's what happened in Israel in those early years when these immigrants - many of them refugees with virtually no resources because the Arab and Muslim countries from which they came did not allow them to remove their belongings or money - arrived in a country so young it did not even have a decade under its belt.

Very often, while these immigrants may have been considered educated in their countries of origin, by Western standards they were considered uneducated because what they knew did not apply to a Western economy. So coming into the workforce as professors or researchers or accountants or lawyers was not really an option. The economy was not robust enough to accept many of these immigrants. Also, from a social standpoint, there were significant cultural differences that needed to be overcome. It took a while to integrate these immigrants both socially and economically.

Was there some sort of sinister bigotry driving that society? I don't think so. For example, I know of one Moroccan woman who arrived as an older teenager in the mid-'50s. In Morocco, her options would have been limited. In Israel, she received an education of quality, went on to post-secondary, and was recruited by political parties because they were seeking to expand their base of voters and to reach out to the new immigrants.

Does that sound like bigotry?

Her parents had a harder time integrating, but they survived and did okay as well over time. However, to get an idea of a society, look at its children and their integration. I have numerous acquaintances and some family members in Israel who are married to someone who comes from an entirely different background. Israeli society has come a long way toward integration. It's just that these things take time.

If one looks at the IDF, which essentially conscripts about 70-75% of all males in Israel, one sees a similar development. The IDF is a very interesting institution in that it brings cohesiveness to an otherwise very divided nation. It is a shared experience for many and a key to entering the society.

The IDF can be political in its top echelons, but is very much a people's army because it is a conscription army. It is also a very practical institution when it comes to defining where people should serve. They give people aptitude tests. They then slot those soldiers according to aptitude.

Guess what? There are plenty of Mizrahi soldiers who become officers and remain officers as they move up through the ranks. Shaul Mofaz, former Chief of the IDF and current Minister of Defense, is a perfect example. The man he beat out for the job of heading the IDF was a handpicked Ashkenazi who was Rabin's protegee.

I think that Gila's expectations of such a young country that is still seeking to "find" itself as a society are unfairly high. It takes time to evolve and to mature, whereas Israel is only 57 years old and has had several periods where there were large influxes of immigrants.

Since I've lived in our American society, Canadian society and Israeli society (both in my formative years and as a young adult), and since I am the products of a mixed marriage of a Mizrahi to an Ashkenazi Jew, I think I am pretty well qualified to completely and entirely refute Gila's (silly) last remark.
The Middle | Homepage | 01.14.06 - 2:55 am | #

Thanks for that terrific compilation of "worst of" the Jewish blogging awards. Before reading yr post I wrote to the Post complaining that they are co-sponsoring this competition with one of the most disgusting Israeli Arab haters around--Aussie Dave of Isreally Cool. If you wonder how Chuckie LGF got nominated it was a put up job fr. his partner in crime (they're both at Pajamas Media btw) Aussie Dave.

The J. Post had the chutzpah to tell me my fears of Aussie Dave slanting the competition were unfounded because there was a "wide diversity" of viewpt in the competition. BTW, J. Post (formerly owned by that kleptomaniacal neocon buccaneer Lord Black) is not exactly known for its "broad diversity" of views on its news or editorial pgs.
Richard Silverstein | Homepage | 01.14.06 - 3:41 am | #

With the General's terrific research as my foundation, I wrote my own critique of the Awards. The post is linked to this comment.

General: if you could give this post some more "play" here I'd be grateful (that is if you like it).
Richard Silverstein | Homepage | 01.14.06 - 7:09 am | #

Thank the Lard above I'm Buddhist.
MzNicky | Homepage | 01.14.06 - 8:50 am | #

yeah t_m, they history of mizrahi in israel is all bright and peachy. like when they dumped 'em by the truckload in development towns and used their children in medical experiments. do not be so callous as to gloss over the very real suffering of the mizrahi in this country, who i've heard quite often refer to ashke-nazis when speaking of their treatment at the hands of the ashkenazim in this country.

it is, of course, very different today. but the early years are not nearly as innocent as you portray them.
Mobius | Homepage | 01.14.06 - 11:09 am | #

One more thing: I think you are wrong, and from a morality standpoint, I think you stink. You see, I believe the Palestinians should have a state. I also think that because of supporters like you around the world, they are far too confident that somehow they will get that state by destroying Israel and not by making peace. In the meantime, Israel simply becomes more entrenched and the Palestinians do not move forward because their focus is on Israel's destruction. Today, 65% of Israelis were born inside Israel. On the other hand, 90% of Palestinians were born outside of it. In 2000, at Taba, Israel offered far more than what the Palestinians will get if the separation fence becomes a de facto border. Think about that every time you make one of these blanket generalizations about Israel's supporters or Zionists.

I think from a morality standpoint, I've got a way easier job. All I need to say about the whole thing is that you can't take people's bank accounts and property and run them off into refugee camps. End of morality lesson.

On the other hand you have to engage in some speculation and play around with "whataboutery" and hint around at anti-semitism and then make some lame comment about Taba and hope that no one knows what you are talking about or how little any of that mattered.

I added a qualifier, "a species" because I felt there was some value in soft zionists but if the soft zionists have gone to the Sharon camp I need to rethink that.
Ed Marshall | Homepage | 01.14.06 - 11:16 am | #

Nicky,
All of the above is why I do not practice any organized religion.
Hey, anyone, could I get an answer on that yahrzeit candle question? Please disregard if this pisses you off. Some people are so touchy.
Jackie_O | 01.14.06 - 1:22 pm | #

Shalom Jackie_O,
A yahrzeit candle is lit on the anniversary of a parent's death. They are designed to stay lit 24 hours and are a way of remembering and paying tribute. It was a sweet gesture on the part of your sister in law.

See? Not all organized religion is fucked up.
ck | Homepage | 01.14.06 - 4:08 pm | #

Jackie: I hear ya.

I would quote Thich Nhat Hanh on the danger of mindless adherence to ideology, but, well, I think this thread speaks for itself on that point.
MzNicky | Homepage | 01.14.06 - 5:35 pm | #

Ed,

It is nice to sit back in the easy chair and make proclamations about this and that. In fact it is really easy to point fingers and accuse others of not using facts, but that same finger can be pointed right back at you.

I haven't seen anything but ignorant commentary and personal attacks from you. It looks like you have a stellar record to draw upon.

Middle,

Well said.
Jack | Homepage | 01.14.06 - 10:02 pm | #

Jack: You are like the party guest who is in attendance only because you came with someone who was actually invited. You wander about, interjecting your warped, inane opinions into conversations, pretending to be oblivious to the vibes others pointedly send you that your interruptions are rude, boring, and unwanted. But you don't care. Any attention, however negative, is better than no attention at all, which is what you would receive if you didn't make such a pest of yourself.

Even when the social clusters close ranks around you, you seem not to understand that you are being shunned for being the asshole you are. We've all seen you at our parties, and we all cut our eyes at each other, wondering if and when you will get a clue and leave already.

Have you got a clue yet? We're all standing around, cocktails and hors d'oeuvres in hand, hoping that you have.

Please don't make us call security.
MzNicky | Homepage | 01.14.06 - 11:02 pm | #

You guys are basket cases. No one on the right hates "brown people" because believe it or not, a lot of us happen to fall within that category.

We just believe in the right to survival. How dare we even think about such a strange concept.
Tovya | Homepage | 01.14.06 - 11:37 pm | #

ck,
Thanks. I always thought it might mean something like that, but I was too embarrassed to show my ignorance.
My sister-in-law is, indeed, a very good person.
It is a very sweet remembrance and a comforting tradition. I have it in a special place with other things that belonged to my folks. I kinda hate to light it since, to me, it's a nice keepsake from a loved one at a difficult time.
As far as religion, it just seems all people do is fight about it, so it doesn't seem very Godly and, if we're made in His image, we certainly have some explaining to do.
Seriously, I'm a former Christian who just believes there's a God. I just wish He'd send the Prize Patrol.
Jackie_O | 01.14.06 - 11:39 pm | #

Onlyinisrael, Ephraim, etc.:

I think that one thing you're misunderstanding is that many Americans imagine that all Jews are white and all Muslims are brown. Some of the support that Israel gets from the likes of LGF is based on this misconception.

Of course, everyone sane knows better. But that's what makes LGF so funny (and horrifying.)
Your friend in NYC | 01.15.06 - 12:02 am | #

Mznicky,

Why would I care about what an ignorant redneck has to say or think about me. If I gave a shit about your opinion it would only because I suffered through some of your cooking.

If you really didn't like me and had an ounce of common sense then you truly would ignore me.

Instead you post silly and inane comments that you hope will be applauded by the few flunkies you think you might have.

Be a dear and get your teeth fixed and an education.
Jack | Homepage | 01.15.06 - 12:56 am | #

Tovya,

Shall I remind y'all of Israel's supplying the "interrogation" rooms of the apartheid government of South Africa and supplying the apartheid government of South Africa with nuclear weapons?

Y'all might not "hate coloured folks", but history tells a tale where plenty of excuses are provided to keep them "coloured folks" in their proper place. Is that a "ticking timebomb" I hear as the soundtrack inspiring the song "Biko"?
Tom - 大肚腩 | Homepage | 01.15.06 - 1:28 am | #

Jack, I'll point anyone who cares towards a shelf of books that is about to break under it's own weight that deals with the story of the Levant.

It's not only not my job, I'm sick to death of a pack of very conscious liars telling religious, ethnocentric fairy tales.
Ed Marshall | Homepage | 01.15.06 - 1:35 am | #

Jack:

"Why would I care about what an ignorant redneck has to say or think about me."

I have no idea why you would care. Why do you keep coming around?

"If you really didn't like me and had an ounce of common sense then you truly would ignore me."

Don't flatter yourself. The only reason I pay any attention to you is because you are befouling a site I love dearly.

"Be a dear and get your teeth fixed and an education."

For someone who positions himself as a champion of a disparaged people, you display a great propensity for prejudice and badly informed stereotyping, not to mention ill-advised condescension. My teeth are perfect and my academic credentials are impeccable. So don't fuck with me, shithead. You will not prevail.
MzNicky | Homepage | 01.15.06 - 1:47 am | #

Jackie_O,
*sigh* I know what you mean about religion. Look at what it's done to this otherwise fun site ...

As far as the prize patrol goes, guess what? It's just rolled into town! This may be a tad forward, but if you send me your postal address (jewlicious [at] gmail dot com) I will send you a whole pack of yahrzeit candles which you can light up whenever you like. They're not at all expensive and I am not remotely interested in proselytizing. I was just touched by your sister-in-law's gesture and wish to add to the good feeling.
ck | Homepage | 01.15.06 - 6:21 am | #

Tovya, Jack, Ephraim, OnlyinIsrael, the Middle (the middle of what?);

You people sound very well educated in the areas that you care about--regardless of whether the facts you recite are facts--but pretty much as ignorant as any of the people you attack as not understanding your situation.

Here's the short story. Without the shenanigans of the the Brits during WWI and the attendant idiocy in re-shaping the Middle East. Put any kind of spin on it you want to, paint it up, perfume it it's still a case of a few very powerful entities deciding how many millions of people would live their lives.

The holocaust was an abomination as was the policy of taking land away from the Palestinians to give the Israelis a state of their own. The history of the world is replete with extirpation and extermination of those who occupy land or hold wealth coveted by others. The jews are not a special case in that regard. Yes, what happened in Europe, especially during the years 1936 to 1945 was horrendous but was it worse than what happened to the Armenians in Turkey; the Huegenots in France or the Carthaginians--only if you were not one of those groups. Jeez, I almost forgot about my people--the Irish--only a million or so strarved to death by the British landlords whom we have since waged endless war against.

You people are beneath contempt.

Ed Marsharll, WhattheH, Mz. Nicky, Jackie_O (I need you so);

I love you man (and notman)! In a very sexually onomotapoetic sort of way.
democommie | 01.15.06 - 1:15 pm | #

Back atcha demo.
MzNicky | Homepage | 01.15.06 - 11:32 pm | #

Hey, you know what I hate? We had a forecast here yesterday that called for snow flurries. And what did we get? Wind! It doesn't snow here in Chapel Hill at all, hardly, and here the TV forecasters go getting all our hopes up. What's up with that, anyway?
Major Woody | 01.15.06 - 11:53 pm | #

Did Jack really call MzNicky an ignorant redneck?
patriotboy | Homepage | 01.16.06 - 2:07 am | #

Yes, I called her an ignorant redneck who isn't smart enough to recognize that she has already lost. I loved this little ditty

My teeth are perfect and my academic credentials are impeccable. So don't fuck with me, shithead. You will not prevail

No, I would never try to beat a woman of virtue. I would never try to suggest that when you are not engaging in carnal activities with your brother you are trolling around the barnyard searching for new blood to sleep with.

Little Ms. Tricky, you are a dear but you don't have a fucking clue when it comes to satire do you.

That is what this place is all about. We can come here and make any sort of comment we want and if someone gets upset we just call it satire and everyone goes about their business.
Jack | Homepage | 01.16.06 - 2:25 am | #

So anyway, General, yes, many of us have noticed a negative comment or two (well beyond the normal parameters of witty banter) about MzNicky floating around here. Intelligence suggests that the posts are coming from an Al Qaida operative who is trying to drive a wedge between God's Army here in America and our Hebrewic pawns who are playing their proper roles to bring about Armageddon, and the imminent return of George Bush's older brother Jesus.

As such, a message to the rank-and-file is indicated. We are now at A-Hole Alert Level Red, and it is recommended that no one approach, read or reply to any further offending posts from this treacherous saboteur, lest the Rapture be postponed.
Major Woody | 01.16.06 - 6:38 am | #

Here is some some more satire, Jack.

Jump up my ass. You are the most pathetic asshole on the planet gripping to the most gossamer thread in the history of perceived oppression. You are a bare step above of the filth that burden under the leash of political oppression that keeps them from flying stars and bars and celebrating slavery.
Fuck you.

Satire, of course.
Ed Marshall | Homepage | 01.16.06 - 8:15 pm | #

Ed,

If you pulled that hot poker out of your oversized ass and dropped the remote control from that fat cheeto covered paw of yours you might actually have a chance of making a point.

But that is about as likely as your ignoring the siren song of stale store bought donuts you left on the kitchen counter you pathetic maggot.

I guess when you father crapped you out he managed to rid himself of some genetic waste.

Go rub some salt up your ass and suck on a rock. And for what it is worth it is considered bad form to rely on Google for insults you silly bastard.

As they say, eat shit and live. And to all my other fans, go fuck yourselves with the nearest kitchen utensil you can find. You are in dire need of a serious orgasm

Hugs and kisses from someone who doesn't understand satire.

-Jack
Jack | Homepage | 01.16.06 - 10:33 pm | #

excuse me democommie, were you talking? forgive me, i failed to translate the barking noises that were coming from your mouth.
Tovya | Homepage | 01.16.06 - 10:44 pm | #

iI think from a morality standpoint, I've got a way easier job. All I need to say about the whole thing is that you can't take people's bank accounts and property and run them off into refugee camps. End of morality lesson.

On the other hand you have to engage in some speculation and play around with "whataboutery" and hint around at anti-semitism and then make some lame comment about Taba and hope that no one knows what you are talking about or how little any of that mattered.



I am floored by your intelligence and this counterpoint to my comment above should be granted the JIB Super Award for Psuedo-Intellectual Commentary about the Arab-Israeli Conflict. If my friends weren't being real nice to them, I'd tell you who deserved that award last year, but this year, you're the tops, babe.
The Middle | Homepage | 01.17.06 - 2:03 am | #

Hmmm, the quote of Ed's boring comment is supposed to be in italics. Just for the record, his facile, lame comment begins with "I think" and ends with "that mattered."
The Middle | Homepage | 01.17.06 - 2:07 am | #

JG: Sir, forgive them, for they know not what they do.
MzNicky | Homepage | 01.17.06 - 11:36 pm | #

Right, that is it.
Jack | Homepage | 01.18.06 - 1:39 am | #