I need to devote more time to an answer, but the quick answer is: unfortunately, everything is on the table, including jus soli.

There is an entire industry, rooted in Southeast Asia and elsewhere, that ships pregnant mothers to the United States solely to have their children born in the United States; such anchor babies are then used to bootstrap entire families into the United States, whether or not those initial entries were legal. Does anyone else see the absurdity in maintaining the old rule in an environment of such abuse?


Gravatar Jus Sanguines and Jus Soli are the backbone of our citizenship law. They are an inheritence from English law that underpins the Constitution itself. At its root, the two princ. make it impossible for tyrannical forces to dictate political power by determining who is or is not a citizen.

In one sense, the Civil War was about the corruption of Jus Sanguines and Jus Soli through compromise on the issue of slavery in the Constitutional Convention. It restored to both principles the power of law. We better be damn sure we know what we're doing before we mess with something so fundamental.

Besides, GC, you overstate and oversimplify the problem.

Immigration law is encumbered with poorly concieved and written legislation. The application of it is haphazard and subject to political whim. The chaos is driven by immigrant and business advocates with a self-interested goal that threatens US security and endangers our complicated system of benefits and policies. The chaos of immigration is no accident.

Immigration keeps a lid on the fraud only through the evolution of processes in the administration of benefits and the enforcement of law. The problem with an immigration overhaul, at this junction, is that Congress is merely pandering. The attack on Jus Soli is part of a dishonest and self-interested approach to legislation.

A conscientious attempt to remedy previous errors- Legalization, SAW, Section 245(i) Adjustment, Section 322 Citizenship, and the abolition of the INS, would be welcome. But, this kind of senseless complication opens the door wide to fraud and law-suits.


Gravatar GC- I just re-read your responses to "Illegals to Vote?" below. Perhaps we are talking past each other. In reading your first response again, it seems that you are suggesting that immigration restrictions are on their way in and that everything is fair game. If this be the case, then my immediate response has the wrong tone.

I remain deeply concerned about the polical football that this issue has become and see some unsavory motives behind that attack on Jus Soli. I don't see it as an attempt to restrict immigration, merely as a justification for throwing open the floodgates under an intentionally complicated bill with business and advocate loopholes written into it.


Gravatar Hell... Even the EU is beginning to act decisively in immigration matters.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/ art...1892795,00.html


Gravatar GC- I just re-read your responses to "Illegals to Vote?" below. Perhaps we are talking past each other. . . . I remain deeply concerned about the polical football that this issue has become and see some unsavory motives behind that attack on Jus Soli.

DS, I see what you mean, and I think we have been talking past each other on the issue.

We seem to be in agreement on at least one issue: namely, that the immigration issue has been too politicized, by all sides. Where we may disagree is how it was politicized, and what the proper solution to the illegal immigration problem is.

I think politicians have been way too lax in creating and enforcing immigration laws for fear of being perceived as harsh and xenophobic by immigration communities. This subject could be a post in and of itself. Suffice it to say, their inaction for the sake of political popularity has done damage to this nation, and threatens its very existence. They now threaten additional damage by their crude, one-dimensional proposal to eliminate jus soli just for the sake of eliminating jus soli.

That having been said, I do think all policy options are on the table, and that includes a re-thinking of jus soli. I think, however, that if we took that substantial step (and it would be a substantial step), it would have to be part of a multi-point immigration overhaul, which would include a U.S.-Mexico border fence, criminal prosecution of those who hire illegals, and other good ideas. It would have to be part of a larger plan.

Is it possible we are on the same page here?


Gravatar I think so.

One of the things that many immigration officers find frustrating is the constant discussion of new law as a remedy to the effects of legislative infringement on policy enforcement. Every change in law takes a three years or so to be fully effective, for good or for ill. So, a constant state of change means that our processes are always in a state of flux. In addition, Congress is involved in the minutia of our work, constantly screwing it up for political ends.

Take, for example, employer sanctions.

Several years ago, we conducted a multi-jurisdictional operation against employers of illegal immigrants in SC and GA. We arrested more than 300 illegal (mostly Mexican and Islander) aliens off of Vidalia onion farms in one day. The operation was a huge success. (We set up desks for Immigration Judges at gangways to chartered aircraft for "credible fear" interviews. Most aliens were calling their families from their home-countries at dinner-time.)

The next day, Congress was up in arms b/c we targetted the Vidalia onion farms during their harvesting season. Apparently, these onions have a 2 week harvesting period and our operation likely cost the respective states millions of dollars. The Clinton Adminstration ordered a change in operational protocal that requires any multi-jurisdictional operation to be approved by the director, with congressional oversight, rather than the regional directors.

We've conducted exactly zero such operations since.

I have dozens of examples like this. My point is that we have a willing force of dedicated people, a law that has settled into a working groove, and resouces to accomplish our respective missions. The only missing piece is a Congress that wants us to succeed.

The last thing we need is changes in the law. Just leave us alone and give us time to do our job.




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