And it's not just students. Adults are clueless about real culture too.
Actually, in defense of the young, they are much easier to educate in the riches of culture than are most adults, who are stubbornly holding on to their utilitarian way of life. So there could be hope for the future. The question is: will the utilitarians in charge allow students to be educated in these treasures?
Dr. Blosser, what do you think the results would be if a similar survey was done only for young Catholics, but if the questions were "Christian questions"?
Ekkehard VI, the pragmaticization of values leaves a grim prospect, if it weren't for the little pockets of interest you describe, which as resilient as crabgrass, keeps pushing itself up through the grey grime.
St Pio, I think I would weep. There is such a test, by the way, which NOEL J. AUGUSTYN has put together, called the 'Salvation Aptitude Test.' I would dreat to administer it, even as basic as it is.
So that we can get to treating the disease, would anyone like to guess the cause?
Illiterate professors who cannot spell Francis Ford Coppola and Dick Cheney?
And also it's Terry Gilliam, not Guilliam, and Ludwig van, not von, Beethoven.
Quis quizzaverunt quizzatores ipsos?
Yeah right. Literacy = spelling.
A FRERE ther was, a wantowne and a merye,
A lymytour, a ful solempne man.
In alle the ordres foure is noon that kan
So muchel of daliaunce and fair langage.
Kathy
I gotta admit... I have to fall into the c,d,e,f category. I'm not bad when it comes to literature, but music and art, I don't really know about.
Also, I think that if there are any questions on science or math, most students would get it right (although I wouldn't cuz I'm not good in that either).
I'm guessing most students today take a pragmatic view, that what matters the most is what will make them succeed and what will make them succeed is a good job that pays good money. Hence, science, technology, etc are their main concern. Most of my friends kid around saying that "philosophy" is not a real class or a real major.
Spirit,
You accuse Dr. Blosser of being "illiterate." However, the dictionary defines that word as follows:
A.
1. Unable to read and write.
2. Having little or no formal
education.
B.
1. Marked by inferiority to an
expected standard of familiarity
with language and literature.
2. Violating prescribed standards
of speech or writing.
C. Ignorant of the fundamentals of a
given art or branch of knowledge:
eg. musically illiterate.
Dr. Blosser's failure to properly spell proper names in no way violates any of these definitions. So, the moral of the story? If you are going to be petty, at least try to be right.
Second, you wrote, "Illiterate professors who cannot spell Francis Ford Coppola and Dick Cheney?" That, my friend, is a fragment sentence, which could be construed as a violation of one definition of "illterate." Ah, I love irony.
'illterate' s/b 'illiterate'
I just wanted to rob O'Leary of the satisfaction.
Thanks 
However, I'm not the one claiming to be the paragon of linguistic excellence, so Father Spirit shouldn't have drawn too much satisfaction!
I think O'Leary should have written, "Illiterate professors who cannot spell Francis Ford Coppola OR Dick Cheney?"
But I am a former student of poor old (soi-disant)illiterate Dr. Blosser. So what do I know?
Surely Father O'Leary's identified problem has the wrong name. Philip Blosser simply typed too fast and failed to proofread -- but in the case at issue, no bad grammar was launched on another crusade.
Apolonio:
I don't normally address your comments, even when there is something worthwhile in them -- and I've never been one to fawn over your ruminations, which makes me a rare bird if I understand your web page. Nevertheless, your inattentiveness to the value of music and importance of it in the formation of the soul is understandable, given your self-identified obsession with the "practical". What connection, therefore, do you see between the collapse of Catholic practice and the collapse of music in Catholic worship?
Chris,
To attempt an answer to your first post, I wonder how much the grim mood that the world has been in since World War II has contributed to the disintegration of culture. Might there be a collective (and erroneous) idea that beauty doesn't matter in this world where there are so many other problems? Could the disappearance of culture have something to do with an understandable but misguided and disastrous attempt of society to "start from scratch" and forget the bloodiest century ever?
Whether any of this is true, I think one must also seriously consider the lethality of pragmatism, at least in America. We have confused productivity and fruitfulness, and they are two very different things. Make more widgets. Make more money. Beauty is not essential, many would say.
Our society has forgotten how to develop the whole person. Hence, we worry only about whether we get into a good school and get a good job, and few are concerned with physical fitness or artistic appreciation. We have lost the great balance that the Greeks had between logic, music, and athletics.
Ah, my friends. I appreciate your efforts to come to my defense against the accusation of my illiteracy. But I'm afraid the "Spirit of Vatican II" may have a point. My spelling has never been the same after he corrected my typo in which I had misspelled 'penis' as 'penus.'
What connection, therefore, do you see between the collapse of Catholic practice and the collapse of music in Catholic worship?
Response:
The connection is simple: if music is not reverent or does not produce reverence, then reverence will decrease. And reverence, as von Hildebrand said, is the mother of all virtues and it is a fundamental attitude all must take in order to see value in things.
It seems to me that most students don't like classical music because it is not up-beat enough. They like what is upbeat and anything that is slow does not lift up their spirits. A friend of mine even said that the Gregorian chant makes him feel subordinate (which I think is a good thing since that means that the chant produces humility). A couple of things will take into effect with this: they will get bored and maybe not take their faith seriously or they will get bored and look for other music like rock music which is bad in the long run.
That's my guess in the connection. There may be other things of course, but that's my observation.
On a sidenote, I think a good way to prepare for Mass is to have a silent night the night before Mass and a silent morning. That is, one tries to not talk at those moments so that they can contemplate and be ready for God's Word during Mass. This is what Guardini said and I tried it and it's really good. Moderating conversations/talk is a good practice of the presence of God, even if it means moderating talk on theology or philosophy.
Apolonio takes me back to seminary days and the Solemn Silence we observed in Maynooth from 8.30 p.m. to 8.30 a.m. every day -- before all that broke down and the strumming of guitars was heard through the night.
You accuse Dr. Blosser of being "illiterate." (OK, I should have said: semi-illiterate.)
However, the dictionary defines that word as follows:
A.
1. Unable to read and write. [Spelling is a basic element in writing. Of course many great writers, such as Yeats, have had some form of dyslexia, but usually that did not get into their published utterances -- though to be sure Yeats turns the name Motoghige into Montashigi.]
2. Having little or no formal
education.
B.
1. Marked by inferiority to an
expected standard of familiarity
with language and literature. [I think every schoolboy knows that Beethoven was of Flemish stock, hence "van" not "von".]
2. Violating prescribed standards
of speech or writing.[Gee, maybe "illiterate" is right after all.]
C. Ignorant of the fundamentals of a
given art or branch of knowledge:
eg. musically illiterate.[Not to know Beethoven's name is hardly a sign of musical culture.]
Thanks for the clarification, and compliments to Phil Blosser for correcting his text -- would he would do the same for his dangerous pontifications on epidemiology.
Motoghige SHD BE Motoshige
Hang on, Gilliam is now misspelt as Guillam!
Apolonio:
The nonsensical "rock" music isn't helping them take their faith seriously, except as a toxin against which their faith is the antidote! What you have essentially said is that an entire generation is lost to the Church. How dare you be so pessimistic? Surely we can teach them to love the beautiful, the true, the sacred?
I think, however accidentally, this answers Ekkehard VI also?
Another very erratic speller is our friend DREADNOUGHT (who has just caused one of his most intelligent correspondents to quit in disgust): " I'd rebutt [!] the claim that the words are only meaningful to the indoctrinated." He also admits unfamiliarity with the word "denigratory".
Chris,
I'm not certain that I see much of a connection between your reply to Apolonio and my post. Would you mind elaborating a bit, since I've had a long day and seem to be a little slow?
In any case, just so you're aware, I was not saying that there is no way out of the present situation, only that the present situation is bad. The rebirth of goodness, truth, and beauty must, in many ways, start from the ground up, but at the same time there must be cooperation from those in authority, so that children can receive real education in the arts in school, and parishes can have truly beautiful liturgical music, etc., etc.
Chris,
I don't think I'm pessimistic. That was my observation with a couple of commentaries. Most of the young people I encounter do love Christ, but they have a tendency for rock music or contemporary music. They think that anyone who talks about Gregorian chant is pre-Vat 2 although it is definitely *pro*Vat 2.
As for being pessimistic, I'm not because God provides. Where there is Christ there is hope and the Church is where Christ is even though her members are unfaithful to Him. And Christ usually works through saints, witnesses who *are* beautiful, good, and true to Christ and have reverence because the Holy Trinity lives within them. That is what will transform the world.
As has often been said, relativism boils down to little more than "I'm ok, you're ok", which is a kind of shorthand for "I'm clueless, you're clueless, but so is everyone else, so that's ok". You might think that children raised in this postmodern hothouse would emerge as a harmless, feckless, useless generation of Eloi. But that overlooks the basic recklessness of undistilled human nature. The actual fruit of "I'm ok, you're ok" is "I'm clueless, you're clueless, but so is everyone else, so f**k you!"
Dialogue, dialogue, dialogue! I wonder what they're saying about this at the EWTN ROCKHOUSE!!
My favorite/favourite refuge when spelling errata overtake me is to point out that the Queen's English (as well as the President's) only has an "accepted" spelling, not a "standard" spelling. English is unique in this, I believe, as in any other language with which I'm familiar a change in spelling either changes the meaning, or renders it a "non-word."
There is no American (or British) equivalent of the French Academy ... although, were there one, they could stop all those humankindians from pronouncing the silent "t" in "often," curse them.
Natürlich, getting involved in spelling and grammar I forgot what I was going to post.
Apolonio: Desputio. That's only the *start* of the process with respect to transforming the world. Pius XI made it clear in, e.g., Quadragesimo Anno, that the restructuring of the social order only begins with an individual reformation which (at the very least) orients the individual in the right direction, socially speaking.
Individually, of course, a personal reformation (and the sacraments) is all that is ordinarily necessary for one to be saved -- but most people's acquisition and development of virtue is strongly influenced by the surrounding social order, i.e., the institutions within which they carry out the task of living. True, growth in virtue can and does take place even given the most horrific conditions -- it's called "heroic virtue," and people who practice it are called "saints" (duh).
We must bear in mind however that St. Theresa's "little way" is also valid for developing heroic virtue ... and probably a lot "easier" (hahahaha) for the rest of us -- but only given a properly structured social order, so that the acquisition and development of virtue become almost "commonplace" and the normal state of affairs.
Does this mean that you must be "perfect" and saved before engaging in acts of social justice to restructure the social order? No -- that would, in a sense, be putting the cart before the horse. If (socially speaking) the goal is to restructure the social order so that it encourages people to become saints, it would be self-defeating to require that we be saints before we start ... (as well as dumb -- if we're already saints, obviously it's possible to do so within the existing structures of society, so why bother to restructure the social order?).
I got (most of) this from the interfaith Center for Economic and Social Justice, www.cesj.org, which is worth looking into.
Apolonio:
Can one honestly, genuinely love God and hate chant?
Nuff said.
Ekkehard VI:
We must teach people to recognize beauty. In this way, they can see what is worth preserving as is, and what needs remediating. Relativism -- which Ralph has so colorfully described elsewhere -- makes us unable to identify, nevermind correctly appreciate, the diseased organs of our dying society.
Apolonio refuses to acknowledge that our modern generation is capable of seeing or learning about beauty, and doesn't, if I read him correctly, think it's particularly necessary.
Is that any clearer?
Chris,
Apolonio refuses to acknowledge that our modern generation is capable of seeing or learning about beauty, and doesn't, if I read him correctly, think it's particularly necessary.
Response:
You did not read me correctly. My view is entirely the opposite.
My apologies. Evidently I will need to read more carefully.
Dr. Blosser, do you have an electronic version of this quiz? If you do, I'd appreciate it being forwarded to me. Was this only administered at LR? I'm curious how students at, say, Davidson would fare. For that matter, and to make it a bit more fair in comparison, other schools in the meathead SAC conference, and schools like St. Olaf, Wittenberg, and Augustana. Surely results like these stress the importance of the liberal-renaissance education.
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