This reminds me of something I heard on Tim Staples conversion tape. He was told something of the sort "The Catholicism you read about, you will never find today"
It is a shame one has to "shop for a church" in order to practice one's Catholic faith.
The issues you mentioned nearly kept me from entering the Church. I fell in love with Catholic theology, spirituality, and liturgy but could not find it anywhere. My first RCIA class was led by an ex-nun who told us she wants to become a priest. The next parish I went to the liturgy was horrid (the priest consecrated large wafers and after consecrating them crumbled up the hosts into bit-sized pieces similar to how you crush saltines into your clam chowder). I actually felt for quite some time that I had missed out on Catholicism "if only I had been born 50 years earlier" I would say to myself. I even contemplated going Eastern Orthodox or SSPX. After an extended search I eventually did find a reverent parish where Tradition was actually valued and practiced. It is a drive, but the fullness of Catholicism is worth it.
PP,
My parish has a good RCIA program, so there is no problem recommending people to it, but for people outside of my area I usually try to find out a good priest to connect them with. My own entrance into the Church didn't involve RCIA and I am very grateful. I was Providentially connected to a good priest (Fr. Robert Sirico) who instructed me and a friend for about 10 or 11 weeks and received us at Pentecost. It was a much better preparation than if I had gone to the neighborhood parish.
At times I am so tempted. Thank the Lord for the orthodox and spirtually mature pastor at our parish.
If Central and Latin America is going charsmatic/evangelical (as it is), must not the Catholic Church bear the blame?
This is NOT blowing my own trumpet, though I can see how it would be understood to be exactly that. I am not tempted to leave the Catholic Church precisely because I have become convinced both of the truth of the faith and because I see the hopeless, shameless behavior of those who can't wait for we who strive to be faithful to pack our bags and leave.
As much as it hurts sometimes to be classed outside the fold for entirely personal reasons (you're more Catholic than the Pope; you're just a different kind of Cafeteria Catholic because you won't stand....; YOU don't understand and won't let others practice the faith their way; Catholicism isn't an exclusive religion) the reality is that the Faith is the Faith, and it is TRUE.
Dr Blosser,
You forgot to mention that the fires of purgation will burn hot with the shredded remains of the Diocesan Newspapers that grace with shame many of the most wayward diocese.
I agree with Chris, now that I am a Catholic I cannot imagine leaving the ark or salvation. I also agree that it hurts to be looked at as a leper for standing up for tradition. I will never leave Holy Mother Church, but I would like more orthodox company.
Of course, your right, Chris, although it's a pity the likes of St. Athanasius had to spend so much of his life in cold exile because of uncomprehending heterodox authorities, if you see what I mean.
Though a "convert", of sorts, myself, I'm afraid I'm like Karl Keating. Protestantism has never risen above the plausibility horizon for me, so I cannot understand how one can leave the Church once when has "seen it," or rather her (warts, disorder, and all).
But of course, that is irrelevant to and for these souls, who clearly were attracted by a light and a truth that some "of the household" have done their best to obscure and obfuscate. I worry about their consciences less than I fear for those who make them stumble.
"when" in first paragraph should be "one".
Raving Papist,
Every issue of my diocesan newspaper will be there stoking the fire:
http://conversiaddominum.com/?p=54
(stations of the cross in mime)
Strangely, I found myself defending the Church before I became Catholic. Someone then asked me, "if you believe it so much then why aren't you one?" This, combined with the frequent admonition of my father, "if you are going to do something at all, do it right" lead me to believe with Peter, "Lord, to whom shall we go?"
Somewhere in my RCIA process, I heard the ancient profession, "Ubi Petrus, ibi ecclesia, et ubi ecclesia vita eterna". That stuck with me and has been the answer to any question which has been impossible to refute ever since. Since becoming Catholic the thought of leaving the Church has never even crossed my mind. No limp-wristed liturgy, no human frailty is worth me turning my back on the Bride of Christ.
Thank you, PP, for bringing this up. You've reminded me, at the very least, that what I can take for granted for myself (even though I shouldn't) cannot be taken for granted for those in the RCIA class I'll be helping out with tomorrow morning. Proper and full Catholic catechesis is the most trying and humbling experience I can think of. This is much, indeed, to think about.
Thanks for this article. The situation you describe is the largest remaining obstacle to my entering the Catholic Church. I am nearly paralyzed with fear that the liturgical realities 'on the ground' in the Catholic Church in the US will damage my faith and that my wife and I will suffer deep regret at having left our Episcopal parish (which is itself at sea in one of the nation's most aggressively revisionist dioceses).
I simply don't know what to do.
Thanks for this article, Dr Blosser.
I was raised Protestant and am very seriously thinking of converting to the RCC, after a two year period of self study (dogma, theology reading, watching Mass on TV, greatly admiring and studying the works of Pope Benedict). My love affair with the Catholic Church has been kept alive (for four decades) by Catholic music of the past 14 centuries, plus the rest of the cultural and historical treasures of Western Catholicism. What I did not realise is that the Catholic Church that I had been romantically idealising all this time, has seemingly vanished.
Like CT (above) I am scared stiff that I'll convert and land in a parish where the liturgical horrors will in the end be too much for me. The main stream Protestant churches where I live still manage to uphold a very high standard of homilies and church music. (Just a pity I don't attend the Sunday services any more...I watch the Mass on Italian TV...not always an uplifting experience, especially because of the choice of music. And I hear the situation in the States are oftentimes much worse.)
I see I have some grammar errors in my post above!! Sorry, folks. English not my mother tongue!
CT,
Pray for the virtues of faith and courage. Whatever the future holds for us, it will require those in extreme measure. God bless you.
In my opinion (which could be 100 % wrong!) if the only reason why I would join, or not join, the Catholic Church was music ("Catholic music of the past 14 centuries, plus the rest of the cultural and historical treasures of Western Catholicism"), then I do wonder if maybe have a somewhat romantic, simplistic or superficial impression, love and understanding of the Catholic Church (the Body of Christ), and the Holy Eucharist, in its metaphysical, historical, present and future reality. Highly idealized (?), and therefore not the best grounds for a long-term (eternal) relationship and marriage. Once the love affair is over, the infatuation passed, or hard times set in, or one sees the warts and all, the relationship will end. I admit I see myself as being this way, and wonder about my salvation.
"The situation you describe is the largest remaining obstacle to my entering the Catholic Church."
Then you are not far from the kingdom I hope. Is there no way to find out the most orthodox, best or most tolerable places to attend Mass in your area? Go and attend some of those, try them out so to speak. You are welcome to attend Catholic churches (of whatever rite), but you cannot/must not receive Holy Communion. You must be a Catholic to do that.
Christ carried a cross for us, and died a (humanly speaking) horrid and ugly death. What must we do for him?
Forgive me if I have insulted or hurt anyone, or crossed the line.
==
CT and Anne,
Please excuse me if this seems abrupt. I have heard masses said in many languages around the world, some were beautiful and some were not. I have been to Anglican Churches in England had heard beautiful liturgy done in Latin.
But, there was something missing in those Anglican liturgies and churches, there was no Real Presence of Jesus in the Eucharist, the same can be said for Protestant churches as well. They appear to me like empty museums without a Tabernacle and the Real Presence.
Music and beautiful liturgy are very important, but minister Ted or Sheila cannot change bread and wine into the Body and Blood of Christ. That reason alone should make one want to be a Catholic, and I would think that if you truly believe the Catholic Church to the Church established by Jesus, there is a moral obligation to act on that belief.
When the novelist Walker Percy was often asked, "Why are you a Catholic?" he curtly responded "What is is there."
I'm a lifelong Catholic and just saw this post over at ID. I'm totally not surprised and sadly, agree with your assessment. Here's what I posted over at ID. I'd like to add that I wish converts would help us to fight the good fight to restore the authentic spirit to the Catholic Church parishes, but if I run screaming, I can understand why they would too (or if not screaming, slip away in the night lol.) Here's what I wrote:
To be totally honest, though, I also think the threadbare spiritual condition of many of our over stretched and hard working parishes is also part of the problem. I recently went back to my parents to tend to my stepfather, who sadly, died before I could turn his treatment around. I went back to my family's two Catholic parishes and ran in horror. My Evangelical friends laughed with sympathy, warning me that I'd be bolting for their temples soon and they were nearly right lol. The lay ministers and most of the parishioners were some of the least reverential people I'd ever seen DURING the Mass. I saw "get well" cards being passed around for signature and discussion during mass. I saw servers talk to parishioners and make faces to them during Mass FROM the altar! And these are, um, middle age to older folks, not kids. They made fun of the accent of the African priest. They criticized the politics of the elderly msgr. I almost passed out and still do thinking about it. I stopped attending mass while back there, because it's hard to pray when you are wanting to barf at the irreverence. I detoxed for several weeks by attending daily mass at EWTN in Alabama.
At Paul Borealis,
Thanks for your comments, Mr Borealis. No, you do not insult me at all. It would indeed be superficial (to put it mildly) to join the Church mainly because of the beauty of Catholic Church music (et al). What convinced me most strongly is precisely the Mystery of the Holy Eucharist and the (may one say cosmic?)reality and truth of the Body of Christ in its past, present and future dimensions. Well, Catholics speak so much of the "fullness of the Faith", and indeed, I am every day learning more about the profound meaning and content of these words.
I apologize for misquoting Percy, he stated, "What else is there."
send them to an Institute of Christ the King or FSSP parish, pronto.
This is a really great topic, and the comments are indeed thought provoking. I hope you won’t mind if I add my experiences.
My wife and I entered the church on Easter Vigil 2002. We were fortunate to enter a parish (3500 families!) with a STRONG and orthodox priest who offers reverent masses, Eucharistic adoration, etc. The music is sometimes poor, but at least we chant some Latin during Lent. The power-player laity is interesting, however. Constantly dodging for influence, and often of questionable orthodoxy-- its been an eye-opener-- but they can't get anything untoward past Father (God bless him).
Our experience has been rewarding, however. I’ve spent a couple years teaching teenage RCIA kids and I assure you, I give them the teaching of the church. Their parents (who are required to attend with the kids), admit they learn a lot from my talks-- some even attend just for fun. I think its the faith they're hungry for, not my babbling.
My wife runs the mother's group. This past weekend they had a women's retreat, featuring Adoration & Benediction, Liturgy of the Hours, Mass, and confession (with over 50 people in line). Several of the women (cradle Catholics) had never participated in Benediction or LOTH in their life. Feedback was very positive. And the speaker was a very orthodox nun (God bless her, too).
We remain Catholics for several reasons: The Eucharist primarily, but also because we have come to believe in the unique authority of the Church. I remain optimistic, and am discerning a call to the permanent diaconate (please pray for me), but much of our positive experience is due to one strong priest who will not bend when it comes to the faith. It’s often been that way— St. Athanasius, ora pro nobis!
One thing to keep in mind is that precisely because the Catholic Church is the true Church, she is more severely attacked by the devil than other groups of christians - and because sins against her faith and liturgy are the worst sins against religion that can be committed, the people within the church who commit these sins are the worst people in the world. So you have to be prepared for a great intensification of spiritual warfare when you come in to the Church. It might make life easier for converts if this was clearly explained to them.
Very intersting post.
It underlines, I think, the fact that we should "follow" our "own" converts; I don't mean being always behind them, but seeing them regularly, not only for friendship but also in the goal of proposing help in case of difficluties in the faith, in the local parish, ...
I think too that it underlines the vital importance of the old communities of faith, such as benedictin of cistercian friars and sisters, to put our convert brethren in a traditional (I do not necessarility mean traditionalist) catholic view of things, and initiate them to spiritual warfare.
To finish, what to do with RCIA. I often see many critics toward RCIA in catholic blogosphere. Should a petition to bishop be done? Should any lay catholics with suffisant knowledge create another "RCIA" and suggest this new book to the bishops?
I see the same problem for Protestant reverts as Protestant converts from Catholicism.
Why would you want to join/remain in a "wannabe" Protestant church (Catholic AM Church) when you can have the real thing?
Forgive me if I have insulted or hurt anyone, or crossed the line.
Not in my book. We all have to ask ourselves how willing we really are to accept being inserted into a living something (the Church) that embodies nothing less than 2000 years (more if you include the people of Israel) of the history of God dealing with stiff-necked human beings. To be Catholic is to accept all this, and forsake the "presentism" that characterizes not only most other forms of Christianity, but the wider culture as well. If one thinks about it, this is akin to accepting the Bible itself, not just as a book, but as the witness of a history more motley even than most suburban liturgies.
I do find somewhat baffling the motives of a person who would revert to Protestantism because of liturgy, music, Haugen and Haas (or is it Haagen and Dazs?). What I do NOT find baffling is those who revert to Protestantism, not because of a lack of verticalism in the liturgy, but because of a lack of horizontalism outside the liturgy. To find a more reverent liturgy somewhere is often easier than finding truly supportive fellowship.
What many Evangelical churches have still is a close-knit community founded upon spiritual fraternity. What is true of many Catholic parishes, on the other hand, is that people don't expect to have anything to do with the people near them in the pew, or in other pews. The "parish family" seems often to be, in practice, little more than a set of several cliques that hang out with each other at coffee hour. This is not a "liberal" problem. This is a matter of the sociological breakup of Catholicism paralleling the social atomizing of the larger culture (i.e., the atomism that results in people not knowing their next door neighbors).
John L.,
That's a very important point. I know of nearly no serious Catholic convert who has not passed through some crucible or another of trials or temptations either en route or immediately upon arrival. Fair warning. More importantly, to be warned is to be well-armed.
Gégé,
I don't think petitioning can do much good, although I do agree on the importance of letting our shepherds know what we are seeing in the trenches. In terms of the way things seem to work at the moment, most priests and bishops don't seem particularly eager to do anything to publicly "rock the boat" in response the concerns of the lay faithful. Like others I know, I have volunteered numerous times to lead RCIA programs only to be sidelined by dissident nuns and/or those who want to keep content on a 'social bonding' level.
SR, I agree with you, on the other hand, that not all RCIA programs are terribly bad. I have seen some that are quite good. I know of one in the Diocese of Raleigh run by an Opus Dei supernumerary who uses two texts: (1) the Bible, and (2) the Catechism of the Catholic Church. This would never happen in our parish, where the CCC is regarded as, at best, a reference book to be consulted only when absolutely necessary.
Lets be honest with ourselves. Is the Catholic Church in America really Catholic?
When one has to parish shop to find a Church that won't teach heresy to your kids, then there is a deeper problem.
Frankly I hate making excuses for the Church. A few years ago I met a Methodist Preacher who was ready to convert. He had been to many Churches in my diocese and was asking if there was a Catholic Church which had a reverent mass. I finally took him to St. John Cantius Parish in Chicago.
I knew I couldn't take him to my Home Parish simply because the Pastor, while he didn't outright teach crap from the pulpit, his homilies were pretty much fluff. The mass while it was OK, still did the horrendous modern music that if picked apart truly isn't Catholic.
He fell in love but the drive (2 hours) was hard on him. He finally found the Eastern Rite, and Annunciation Byzantine Catholic Parish in Homer Glenn. Full bore Orthodoxy in Union with Rome.
I actually started attending that parish myself a few years ago and switched rites, because I am wired that way.
A final example. When my daughter was 6 or 7 she was preparing for her first confession. One of the reasons for staying at the Roman Parish at this time was they actually kept the order of the Sacraments i.e. first confession then first Eucharist.
The DRE decided that each of the kids would wear a purple stole that they would make themselves. I call this keepsake Catholicism. I objected, printed out the Vatican Document that said this was a NO-NO. This document was
ON CERTAIN QUESTIONS REGARDING
THE COLLABORATION OF THE NON-ORDAINED
FAITHFUL IN THE SACRED MINISTRY OF PRIEST
BTW.... the USCCB is still "Studying" this document... whatever this means...
Anyhoo.... She got mad at me because I refused to allow my child to wear the stole.
Like I said... I don't have the time nor the energy to have to fight a battle that doesn't need to be fought in the first place. I take great pains in making sure my kids no the faith, and the local parish should not, under no circumstances undercut the faith of my kids.
This is why I finally switched to the Eastern Rite... which BTW... has its own problems and issues that are being dealt with.
I am a dufus!!! and admit it...
The last sentence in the next to last paragraph above...
I take great pains in making sure my kids KNOW the faith...
Boy... I cna tpyue gr8te Englisssh!
Sorry for the type...
I firmly believe God does not move Evangelicals and other Protestants to convert because it is good for them. Rather He has need of them in His church.
They need our prayers even more than we cradle Catholics.
March 14, 2007
I hesitate to send in a comment, because I'd hate for it to be read in my home parish. However, none of the other comments really seems to get to the point where I am, so I thought I'd try. I've been in the Church almost four years now, a convert from an Evangelical church (PCA), and I still wonder every day if I've done the wrong thing for myself and, more, for my family. Here are some comments, for what they are worth. Those who read them, please note that I in fact am still in the Church and am very grateful for the good things that have come to me here, primarily, of course, the Holy Eucharist.
1. Of course I've seen these awful liturgies and irreverant attitudes. My favorite horror is the response given to a young friend of mine who wants to become a Catholic but has a previous marriage: the priest of the church he sometimes attends (NOT my parish) told him simply to lie on the form that potential candidates have to fill out, "because nobody will ever know". This young man comes from a solid Evangelical background, and it hit him pretty hard.
March 14, 2007
Oops, I hit the post button before I was through. I had some other comments:
2. If I had known before I entered the Church what an integral part Marian piety plays in its doctrine and life, I doubt I would have done so. There must be other Evangelicals who were hit with this and were, frankly, horrified. I don't suggest the Church should change its practice, but I do think this ought to be made clearer to converts before they jump. It doesn't seem fair.
3. It seems to me that the structure of the liturgy of the Word is set up so as to almost guarantee that no real Bible instruction takes place. So far as I can see, the part played by the Bible in the Catholic Church, as compared with what it could be, is pretty pitiful. It seems to me that even the most conscientious preacher would find it hard to preach to his congregation the whole riches of the Scripture when he is confined to the snippets required by the Lectionary. I have often heard the boast that there is more Scripture read in the Catholic Church on a Sunday than in a Protestant, but I'd just like to observe that, if the Scripture is just read and not explicated, it's really a closed book. It looks to me like a large portion of even a "good" congregation views this part of the liturgy as a mere formality, a time to read the church bulletin or take your children to the bathroom. I understand the danger of turning a church into a lecture room devoted to the idiosyncrasies of a preacher, but it looks to me like the opposite danger is not sufficiently considered. Might this not have something to do with the appalling ignorance of Catholics concerning the Scripture? What does it say about a Church that, despite all of its hierarchy and boast of obedience and discipline, still can't seem to get the Bible across to its members? I will grant that the Holy Eucharist is the most important thing, but surely it's not the only.
4. Maybe I shouldn't have used my name. I expect many will dislike what I have said. Possibly a good many will suggest that, if this is the way I feel, I should return to the Protestant Church. Anyway, there it is.
Clay,
As a former PCA minister who has since come back to the Church, I can sympathize with some of your concerns. I do think that your concerns about the Blessed Mother and her role in the piety of the Church can be answered by a reading of Father Gambero's "Mary in the Fathers of the Church." As to the preaching, Pope Benedict's Exhortation mentions very plainly that the deliverance of the homily MUST be improved. Fr. Neuhaus has written exhaustively on this same subject in First Things, especially back 2004 in his Public Square column. Again your concerns about the structure of the Liturgy of the Word getting in the way of the opening of the Text can be answered by looking to the great treasury of homilies delivered by St. Augustine, St. John Chrysostom, etc... we could list names from every era up to and including the former Cardinal Ratzinger. What this demonstrates is that there is nothing intrinsic to the structure of the Liturgy of the Word that militates against great preaching. What militates against great preaching is sloth and poor homiletic training (as an aside my dream job in the Church would be as a homiletics professor at a Catholic Seminary, never would happen but I could dream 
). Another factor has been the influence of 19th century German Protestant liberalism that has made its way into the popular life of the parish because this is the junk that was taught for some reason in the seminaries. In fact, in my current work as a theology teacher at a Catholic high school and associate office director for my diocese I have conversations with many a priest who, when speaking of the Bible, have no idea that they are spouting German liberalism. They think it is "Catholic" because this is what they were taught. The same is true of the "Catholic" text books on Scripture that are approved by many dioceses. Thus, it is not unusual to read that the Old Testament is not historically accurate, that it only conveys the religious sentiment of a people group etc... My training at a conservative seminary RTS has helped me spot this rubbish. Many of these seminaries don't read a Papal Encyclical prior to the 1960's, thus, Pope Leo XIII is known only in name and NOT in thought, thus his Encyclical on Scripture is not even known! Trust me, read that Encylical Providentius Deus (I mispelled it, but go papalencyclicals.net and you will find it.) If you read the Encyclical not knowing that it was by a Pope, you might think it was written by a Conservative Evangelical PCA type. I know this does not necessarilly help you on the "ground" but please consider that you came to the Catholic Church ultimately because She is the Church intended and established by Jesus Christ, thus, she cannot fail because Christ will see to it!!!
I agree with the poster who said to go to a parish with an FSSP or ICKSP priest.
Clay and Tom, thank you for your contributions. These opinions need to be given voice -- hopefully also in larger venues where they may reach the voice of the Shepherds.
Re: Mary
As I read Mr. Stebbins, he's not saying he was upset about Marian piety. He's saying he was upset that he wasn't warned or instructed about it before entering the Church.
And I heartily agree. There may be more or less Marian piety in a particular parish, but it has always and everywhere been a big part of the life of the Church. RCIA needs to explain it, not shove it under the rug.
Wow does this thread ring true! I found this by following a link on Ignatius Insight. I'm a current member of a small Presbyterian church (PCUSA) who for the last 6 years or so has gradually fallen in love with the Catholic Church -- as Dr. Blosser says -- that spans the ages, of St. Augustine, St. Thomas Aquinas, Cardinal Newman, Popes JPII & BXVI. My courtship mostly started when I started to become aware of the major "issues" in the PCUSA. To give a very brief and somewhat uncharitable analogy, the PCUSA appears to be on the same road as the Epicopal Church USA just about 5-10 years behind them. Anyway, I read enough Catholic blogs to realize that a typical Catholic parish in the US will likely have similar problems as what has alarmed me regarding the PCUSA. I think I could overcome this as I understand people are people and, as Paul says, the treasure is in earthen vessels [2Cor4:7]. Or as I like to say quoting GKChesterton, if something is worth doing it's worth doing badly. However, I think the major thing holding me back from just jumping in the Tiber is that my wife is definitely not interested in doing any swimming. I think most of her objections are really cultural and misconceptions of what is actually taught. However, it makes it a lot harder to jump if I will have to appologize for a lot of the same AMChurch silliness that is currently pushing me away from the PCUSA.
However, I believe that we must give the example that we are in it forever, no matter the priest, no matter the architect nor the choir.
I for myself, when we go to Mass during vacation, point to my wife and kids how beautiful the readings were if the homily and liturgy suffered. If the postures are strange to me, I just follow along. Yet, I try to spend extra time prayerfully after Holy Communion until I hear the priest calling for the final prayers.
HTH
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