YOUR FLY IS OPEN!
I do believe that these predictions of impending doom for all barflies in Tennessee are much overwrought. Is it good public policy? Probably not, but I don't think we'll see a rash of killings by permit holders in bars or restaurants, either justified or not. (anecdotes aside, all you marshall Dillon wannabes, you aren't going to save the day with your gun). My biggest concern is that the list of permit holders remain public information, if for no other reason than to have a check on the state of Tennessee to make sure they aren't letting all their butt-buddies have permits who aren't qualified.
How could you possibly think differently than that Left-Wing Caucasian on something?
That never occurred to me before, packrat, and that may be the strongest reason I've heard yet for keeping that list public.
Just because all these other states allow it doesn't mean it's ok for Tennessee to join the ranks of the infernally stupid. Why not be progressive for a change? By the way, your numbers aren't adding up there - you have 40 states listed, not 37.
If there are 40 states where this is ok, that means there are 9 where it isn't - Arizona, New Mexico, North Dakota, Illinois, North Carolina, South Carolina, Louisiana, Wisconsin, and Ohio. Just as allowing guns in bars hasn't resulting in wild west shootouts, banning them from bars hasn't resulted in Mad Max in the parking lots.
My issue continues to be: Bar owners overwhelmingly seem to disfavor it, law enforcement overwhelmingly seems to disfavor it, there's no significant popular movement to insure that 3% of Tennessee's population can pack heat in Ruby Tuesday.
That which isn't broke needs no fixing and there's a lot in Tennessee that's actually broken. I first started writing about this proposal a few years ago because bar managers called me freaking out.
It's their workplace. Owners & managers should be able to enforce some degree of non-discriminatory control over the property & the environment they've created. Likewise there is an infinite variety of consumer information available. Personally, I'm not going to pick & choose where I eat or drink based on anybody's list, but if others wish to do so... why give anybody shit for creating basic consumer information.
I've had too many drunks wave guns in my face (one because he didn't like my jacket) not to worry SOME about potential consequences. If you have no concerns whatsoever you're as irrational as the pants pissers. I find no fault with people who choose to vote with their feet and their wallets.
And until somebody has the line about the need for a standing militia excised I will continue to express my doubts that the second Amdt--which I strongly favor-- is as broad as I'm told it is.
Also, the Mississippi casinos have the full authority to ban guns and I've seen many "No Guns" signs in them over the years. Haven't been in some time though and that may have changed. The signs were posted all over in the Gulf coast when I was working on recovery stories after Katrina.
I'm not entirely sure that the "everybody else does it" line is all that meaningful. Or as my wise, wise mother used to say, "If all your buddies jumped off a bridge...".
Law enforcement always has an agenda that they think will make their jobs easier. Just because some police get vocal about something like this doesn't make it right. They're in favor of easing search and seizure laws as well but that doesn't make them right or in adherence with the constitution.
There were two cases in West Tennessee recently where LEO's had gun problems. The one suspended deputy whose grandchild fired her weapon in a building, and the other police officer that was fired because she shot her ex and lied to cover it up. They are not paragons of safety themselves
42 states have an income tax.... maybe we should go there too.
i agree w/pesky on the 2nd A.
This is an NRA-manufactured issue that would have never arisen from the brains of one of our homegrown politicians absent a hefty campaign contribution.
I've seen too many bar room conversations go from friendly banter to fisticuffs in a heartbeat.
I don't care if the hcp-holder isn't drinking. To me that's not really the point.
Bars usually have too many people and too few inhibitions. We don't need to add handguns to the mix.
PeskyFly
"I've had too many drunks wave guns in my face (one because he didn't like my jacket) not to worry SOME about potential consequences."
Assuming here that "too many drunks" > 1, did you call the police every single time a drunk did that to you? Legally, in TN, as in most states, brandishing a firearm is aggravated assault. Brandishing usually means "any display of a firearm meant to intimidate without just cause", just cause being a valid threat. Here in WA, we just had a gent get arrested for that. He was being harassed by some kids and all he did was raise his shirt to reveal his holstered firearm, and witnesses rightfully called the police and the man was arrested and charged.
If you are encountering people who brandish a firearm like that and NOT calling the police, you are contributing to the problem.
Michigan may or may not technically qualify for that list. last i checked we had a crazy rule about no carrying concealed in places that earned 51% or more of their income from sales of alcohol to be consumed on the premises.
that's intended to let people carry into actual restaurants while banning carry in bars, of course. but i can't see how a CHP holder could know whether it was legal to walk in the door without asking to see the annual financial reports first. i assume they're supposed to guess.
Actually, it is not legal in Washington- would that it were so. For someone who carries 24x7 it makes things inconvenient at times. Not to mention leaves one vulnerable to theft of the firearm from a momentarily unattended car.
Oh btw, my minor nitpick notwithstanding, good analysis of the issue.
thebastidge
My understanding of the law in WA is that you can carry into a restaurant that serves alcohol, as long as you are not sitting at the bar.
Unless things have really changed in Hawai'i, I don't think you can carry a weapon into a bar, simply because they never had a ccw permit. If you took your weapon from home to the range, you couldn't even stop at a McDonalds on the trip. You literally had to go directly from home to the range, and then straight home. AND the gun had to be disassembled in the trunk, ammo separate from the weapon, etc.
If a regualr citizen can go about armed now in Hawai'i, then I would seriously be surprised.
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