Joe Carter at Evangelical Outpost, who is an ex-marine, had an interesting review of this movie a while back. In short, he hated it, and felt it grossly misrepresented what the Marines do and what they're all about. I haven't seen the movie and the folks at Annapolis would have had a good laugh if I had applied there out of high school, so I'm in no position to judge one way or the other. No doubt there are huge difficulties in reconciling Christian ethics with military service, but isn't that true for just about any job? But I'm not a pacifist, I don't think pacificsm is a truly Biblical ethic, and I don't think military service is per se questionable.
Joe Carter at Evangelical Outpost, who is an ex-marine, had an interesting review of this movie a while back. In short, he hated it, and felt it grossly misrepresented what the Marines do and what they're all about. I haven't seen the movie and the folks at Annapolis would have had a good laugh if I had applied there out of high school, so I'm in no position to judge one way or the other. No doubt there are huge difficulties in reconciling Christian ethics with military service, but isn't that true for just about any job? But I'm not a pacifist, I don't think pacificsm is a truly Biblical ethic, and I don't think military service is per se questionable.
David - I'm not sure that every job is as hard to justify..I've worked in a variety of careers without coming into ethical dilemas.
Why do you think that pacifism is not a 'truly Biblical ethic'?
David - I'm not sure that every job is as hard to justify..I've worked in a variety of careers without coming into ethical dilemas.
Why do you think that pacifism is not a 'truly Biblical ethic'?
I'm not sure that every job is as hard to justify..I've worked in a variety of careers without coming into ethical dilemas.
Mabybe. I was a litigation attorney for 13 years and regularly faced throny ethical dilemmas. Not life and death, but thorny nonetheless. I guess it depends what you're exposed to.
Why do you think that pacifism is not a 'truly Biblical ethic'?
In the OT, God uses wars providentially and often direclty leads the nation of Israel in battle. In the apocalyptic literature, Jesus is depicted as the leader of the armies of heaven bringing judgment on the Earth. Most significantly, Romans 13 clearly gives the state the power of the sword.
Obviously, none of these things suggest war is always justified at all times for all nations in all contexts. But neither are they consistent with an ethic that says war is never justified for any nation in any context. I'd also look to the Christian tradition, which generally (except for branches such as the Quakers), has acknowledged the right and obligation of a nation to engage in just war. Finally, I'd ask whether the Biblical ethic of love would permit a nation to take a pacifist stance in light of preventable genocide. Should the allies have let Hitler overrun Europe?
I'm not sure that every job is as hard to justify..I've worked in a variety of careers without coming into ethical dilemas.
Mabybe. I was a litigation attorney for 13 years and regularly faced throny ethical dilemmas. Not life and death, but thorny nonetheless. I guess it depends what you're exposed to.
Why do you think that pacifism is not a 'truly Biblical ethic'?
In the OT, God uses wars providentially and often direclty leads the nation of Israel in battle. In the apocalyptic literature, Jesus is depicted as the leader of the armies of heaven bringing judgment on the Earth. Most significantly, Romans 13 clearly gives the state the power of the sword.
Obviously, none of these things suggest war is always justified at all times for all nations in all contexts. But neither are they consistent with an ethic that says war is never justified for any nation in any context. I'd also look to the Christian tradition, which generally (except for branches such as the Quakers), has acknowledged the right and obligation of a nation to engage in just war. Finally, I'd ask whether the Biblical ethic of love would permit a nation to take a pacifist stance in light of preventable genocide. Should the allies have let Hitler overrun Europe?
David - all good points on the war. I have no issue with nations going to war since I think that God has placed that responsibility in the hands of leaders who will stand before Him to give an account. But I'm sure we're not going to make comparisons to how God used Israel in the OT or His holy ones in the NT for judgment and the US or other nations are we? Israel was certain that God was using them for judgment. Jesus will bring in judgment. How can we be certain that the actions of our government are part of God's judgment on another nation? If I cannot as an individual be certain of that, how can I then justify the killing of someone else?
David - all good points on the war. I have no issue with nations going to war since I think that God has placed that responsibility in the hands of leaders who will stand before Him to give an account. But I'm sure we're not going to make comparisons to how God used Israel in the OT or His holy ones in the NT for judgment and the US or other nations are we? Israel was certain that God was using them for judgment. Jesus will bring in judgment. How can we be certain that the actions of our government are part of God's judgment on another nation? If I cannot as an individual be certain of that, how can I then justify the killing of someone else?
But I'm sure we're not going to make comparisons to how God used Israel in the OT or His holy ones in the NT for judgment and the US or other nations are we?
No, I'm not comparing the US to ancient Israel or trying to make it into some kind of millenarian thing. But I do think those examples show that strict pacifism is not a Biblical norm.
How can we be certain that the actions of our government are part of God's judgment on another nation? If I cannot as an individual be certain of that, how can I then justify the killing of someone else?
You can't be "certain," I guess. But there's a long tradition of ethical / religious reflection on this question, including Catholic Just War theory, which we can mine to make informed judgments. And Just War theory also discusses the roles of individual combatants and how they should make judgments about participating as soldiers. Unless an order is manifestly evil -- as, for example, the orders to Nazi soldiers to exterminate Jews -- generally, the individual soldier doesn't bear moral culpability for killing enemy combatants.
But I'm sure we're not going to make comparisons to how God used Israel in the OT or His holy ones in the NT for judgment and the US or other nations are we?
No, I'm not comparing the US to ancient Israel or trying to make it into some kind of millenarian thing. But I do think those examples show that strict pacifism is not a Biblical norm.
How can we be certain that the actions of our government are part of God's judgment on another nation? If I cannot as an individual be certain of that, how can I then justify the killing of someone else?
You can't be "certain," I guess. But there's a long tradition of ethical / religious reflection on this question, including Catholic Just War theory, which we can mine to make informed judgments. And Just War theory also discusses the roles of individual combatants and how they should make judgments about participating as soldiers. Unless an order is manifestly evil -- as, for example, the orders to Nazi soldiers to exterminate Jews -- generally, the individual soldier doesn't bear moral culpability for killing enemy combatants.
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