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Gravatar I am with you. It's great to see the normality. It's great to see joy. It's as if people are finally telling Stroebele and his friends to stuff it. I am not so worried about the foreign policy aspects either because charting a course for yourself means you have to acknowlege self interest and recognize the real limits of power. The utopianism and finger pointing will probably diminish somewhat.


Gravatar Expat, do you live in Germany? If so, where?

Germany's special path to democracy looks to have finally brought them to a situation that appears normal to the rest of us.


Gravatar I cannot find the original IHT article "German Pride that Surprises" at the URL you have provided, only the headline. Is your post a complete reprint of the IHT article?

I do not really understand why everyone is so surprised at patriotism and national pride being displayed by Germans during the WM 2006 this month. It has always been there right under the epidermis of most Germans I have known for more than 2 decades. Arguments between Germans and Americans about "who is the best at whatever" usually brings out German pride in spades.

As far as the patriotism side of things goes, remember the fall of the Berlin Wall and the collapse of the Soviet Union back in '89? Let's hope that today's young Germans do a much better job at reconciliation with the ghosts of the past (WWII, the Cold War, etc.) than their parents on boths sides of the Elbe River have done since 1989... the Ossie/Wessie divide that persists to this day, 17 years later.

I'll just kickback and wait and see what happens over the next several months as far as this German national pride euphoria goes. Let's hope that it continues to go in a postive direction for everyone concerned.


Gravatar "What this means for America is more tension and disagreement with Germany in the future, as Germany increasingly follows its own self-interest."

Perhaps. Or maybe tension will decrease if Germans start to build a positive vision of who they see themselves as vs. the current anti definition system (re: NOT American)...


Gravatar @ BRE, Sorry, the article is only for subscribers; I should have noted that.

I believe only the introductory paragraph is missing.

Certainly Germans are quick to argue the virtues of their system (or their constitution, or cars, etc.) against anyone else's, but I see that as different from being proud to be German.

The reunification was a high point in German happiness, which as you note has failed to bring about changes in the east/west divide. I'm hopeful that staging the WM in both sides of Germany will help them feel like a single country.

But like you, I want to wait and see.

@ Thomas: Good point. It could be that as Germans define themselves for what they are rather than as what they aren't, the knee-jerk anti-Americanism their politicians define their foreign policy by will cause fewer tensions.




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