heels, sox & steelers
Yeah, I'd seen that Patriots fan petition last week. Not only is its basis technically incorrect on obvious grounds, but it's very poorly written. You'd think there'd be a decent attorney in all of New England who could have drafted the thing.
I'm pretty much done with the Patriots' video-taping scandal unless and until Matt Walsh delivers the smoking gun-- that the video program extended beyond the sidelines. I'd pretty much assumed that Belichick (and probably others) had been videotaping signals throughout his career; it was the fact that he continued to do so after the crackdown and warnings that landed him in trouble.
Yeah this totally sucks. Of course it was cheating, but really who cares about taping some signals? Not me, however, it sucks because now there is doubt about the Steelers' losses. I will always wonder if they would've won.
> I will always wonder if they would've won.
To be honest, unless more damning evidence comes to light, I won't dwell on it. In the 2001 AFCCG the Steelers were essentially beaten on special teams, and certainly not due to the defense being unduly taken advantage of. In the 2004 AFCCG, the Steelers just didn't play all that well in all phases of the game. I'd be more concerned if we were on the short end of one of these 3-point games the Patriots are famous for.
I am giving the NFL some credit for basically saying "OK, you all taped stuff that maybe you shouldn't have, let's not drag the whole league around by the ears..let's just take Belichick and his apparent inability to understand "no taping" means..no taping." We'll make him the example and that will be that.
But destroying the evidence will make this a conspiracy theory forever. Really stupid move. Jay Glazer says that BB signed a statement that what he has given the league was everything he had in his files. If anything else comes to light, he's toast. But what I am hearing so far seems more like speculation and would require someone coming forward to spill the beans. Then the league would presumably grind those beans, drink them, and deny ever seeing them at all.
This is strange, from Mel Kiper's draft chat yesterday:
"Matt Ryan is the one going in that will be perceived to be a franchise QB. His career will be similar to an Eli Manning, Phillip Rivers, Roethlisberger."
Just because 3 QBs were drafted in the same year doesn't mean that their careers are the same. Essentially Kiper is saying that Matt Ryan will start in either the 3rd game of his first season, the 8th game, or not start until his 2nd season. He will then win rookie of the year and set a rookie record for QB rating and consecutive victories, or have a mediocre 1st year, or not play until his 2nd season. He will then win lead his team to a Super Bowl victory, or have another mediocre year, or have an OK 1st year of starting. He will then either almost kill himself in a motorcycle accident, suffer multiple injuries, and have a pretty terrible year, or have a mediocre third year, or go to the Pro Bowl in his 2nd year of starting. Then he will have a terrific 4th year, setting team records in TD passes and have the 2nd highest QB rating in football, or win the Super Bowl after just an OK regular season, or suffer through a tough 3rd year of starting.
OK, that was long and rambly, but how the heck can someone who is a paid analyst, make that statement? These guys' careers have been nothing alike, besides the fact that they were all drafted in the same year.
> OK, that was long and rambly, but how the heck can someone who is a paid analyst, make that statement?
I guess the idea is that all three QBs are now perceived to be "successes" albeit to varying degrees. Kiper is applying the precision of a sledgehammer, but he's suggesting that Matt Ryan isn't a Ryan Leaf, Akili Smith, Tim Couch etc.-- so he's recommending the selection. Of course if Ryan does turn out to be a bust, Kiper will just move on to next year's class...
Of all the made-up careers in the world, who wouldn't want to have Mel Kiper's? All you do is watch tape and espouse opinions with no repercussions from anyone when you are wrong. It'd be great. Imagine if it didn't matter how often you were right or wrong at your job.
Cols,
I saw that Kiper quote and thought the same thing you did. Not surprisingly, Mike Mayock did a much better job of explaining the type of player Matt Ryan might be.
Up here near Boston having seen "Matty Heisman" (well, not quite) play quite a bit, I don't really see the Roethlisberger comparison either-- the part about not having Ben's mobility is a major understatement. Ryan is also prone to inconsistency, inaccuracy and interceptions (the three I's). Maybe Ryan really is the #1 QB prospect in the country, but he's no sure thing imo. He's going to have to be more a precision pocket passer to succeed than a free-wheeling playmaker like Ben (to date, I know we'd like to see our offense be more locked in in the future). Style-wise, he's more a Brady than a Ben..
I'll agree with GlennW. I watched Matt Ryan in two VT games this year, and he didn't necessarily remind me of Roethlisberger either. He has ok mobility in the pocket, but he doesn't have the ability to shed would-be tacklers like Ben -- nobody does. Ryan did scramble a little bit in those two games to buy time (see the last-second prayer that he completed to win the first game), but I think that the comparison ends there.
Nah, Matt Ryan is more like Roethlisberger, Rivers, and Manning. At least that is my paid expert opinion.
Matty Ryan, trymorph extraordinaire...
I personally think his style is more like Dan Marino, Terry Bradshaw, and Johnny Unitas.
. . . with maybe the slightest bit of Heath Schuler or Rick Mirer mixed in.
I think Ryan's more in the mold of (picks another draft class set of QBs), uhhh, Peyton Manning and Ryan Leaf.
Kiper's wig's been on too tight for a number of years now. Mayock has made him expendable, except as a necessary punchline. It's good to laugh.
FW,
Not only has Mayock made him expendable, but so has ESPN's Todd McShay. Plus, ESPN loves to put Mort next to Kiper during their draft coverage, and Mort seems to think he's a draft expert too. He spends more time pouting about picks than actually offering any insight. Which, now that I think about it, is probably for the best.
Yes..Kiper just doesnt measure up anymore. Way too quick to be first to find the next great one. He has a lot of knowledge and doesnt need to overhype but its what he does now.
Mayock seems more clinical about his assessments and I find him more accurate once the guy makes the NFL.
Mayock is sort of the gold standard I guess.
Frig..I am ready for the damn draft..lol..the season ended too soon. Its a mark of how much potential I believe they have that I want to start the year again as soon as possible.
MIGHT be nice to shore up a few things first, I guess. Baby steps...
I forget who mentioned it, but all of these guys make every player picked sound like the coming of a future all-pro. It's funny when you think that the actual number of all-pros from a single draft is pretty low.
From the "For What Its Worth" Department from FoxSports.com:
http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/sto...this-off-
season
I don't know why every article describes the Steelers receivers as smallish. They are all between 5' 10" to 6' 1", that's hardly smallish. It's not like every team has a 6'4" monster to throw to. Most of the receivers that tall suck.
OK, here we go:
We take the 5th OT in the round:
http://www.sportsline.com/nfl/draft/mock
Or the 4th:
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com...art3/
index.html
Or the 3rd:
http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/sto...g-close-to-
home
No, its the 5th:
http://www.profootballweekly.com...08/
mock2229.htm
Hmmmm. Is this draft stocked with 1st Round quality OT's?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0...h?v=0EU1O-
hGxgg
David..Holy cow!
Makes you wish we had a pile of picks this year. Alas..we didn't cheat enough..lol...to get the 7th overall pick. It's fun using "cheat" with every single thing associated with the Patriots.
I hope the first round doesn't turn out like last years very late 1st (1-28, 1-29)very early 2nd(2-3, 2-7, 2-10)rounds where the run on O-Line depleted the stock well before the Steelers had a chance to score one..Staley, Grubbs, Sears, Blalock, Ugoh ALL picked before they took Woodley in the 2nd (brilliant pick though it looks at the moment). No chance for Levi Brown or Joe Thomas who went 3rd and 5th overall of course.
Its great that an area of need could be addressed but I hope they take someone they feel a lot of confidence in. Seems like a lot of people think this is a year for OLine.
Let's just remember that Brett Favre was a 2nd round pick... Late first round has MUCH quality in it.
Anyone catch the SI swimsuit edition? Cute little Tom Brady looks pretty silly in his Stetson ad after his team choked in the SB. Yeah I know... I'm petty, but at least I admit to it.
> It's funny when you think that the actual number of all-pros from a single draft is pretty low.
That's why I have a hard time getting all jacked up over draft talk months before the fact. One day we're pumping a player, a year (or years) later we're hoping that a Lawrence Timmons will develop into a useful player. Wake me up on April 26...
Well I've never seen the point in getting excited about a specific player. I think most of us only know what we're told about a player and every year it's proven that the people telling us about players don't really know much.
However, I've always liked talking about what positions should be drafted. After the draft it doesn't so much matter who the person they drafted is, just as long as it's the position I wanted.
http://cbs.sportsline.com/nfl/pl...rs/draft/
413500
Looks like Charles Haley... projected 2nd round.
Speaking of Shady Brady, let us not forget that in the 2004 AFCCG he had a rockin' case of the Flu and a 103 temp... or was it 104? I forget.
I'd like to see someone run analysis of Belichick's record against teams he played multiple times within the span of a year or 18 months since the 01 season. His record against his division was always pretty impressive and until the last three years, his hallmark was beating the crap out of good teams in big games like the Steelers and Colts playoff matches.
Also, the fact that his teams struggled although usually end up winning in out of conference games and in the Super Bowl (even if he was taping walk-throughs) would also support the fact that his teams weren't nearly as tough if they didn't have their opponent's signals to game plan off of.
There's probably a way of proving a relation between their success against teams they've played within the last year and teams that went in untaped through probabilities and regression models. Can't we get the Freakanomics guys on this?
Even before Spygate it was apparent that the Pats teams didn't so much beat on teams as frustrate the poo out of them. The 2001 Pats are a perfect example... who did they "beat". Every game was by a thin margin. Usually a team dominates SOMEONE along the way.
> Even before Spygate it was apparent that the Pats teams didn't so much beat on teams as frustrate the poo out of them.
Except for the Colts and Steelers in the 2004 playoffs, alas. I'm letting that one go (for now, in lieu of something more substantive).
Reading the PG today, it is interesting how no one in the league is up in arms about spygate. Cowher and Rooney seem to blow it off, and everyone in the league does not seem to think it is a big deal. What are we missing? Does everyone do it, so the league tries to save public perception by burying the investigation? Or doesn't anyone want to be seen badmouthing the Pats, while they are hoping someone else does the dirty work...Fans seem to be much more fired up about this than anyone else
Only some idiot from PA would think spending time no this stuff is more important than fixing his dying inner cities. Pathetic. Steelers lost because they couldnt cover Deion Branch. The play where Pats knew what would happen was on DEFENSE, and it was Bettis up the middle…like they dnot normally do that on 4th and 1! If Pats were taping Steelers defensive signals, how does that help Patriots defense. Kordell couldnt read a defense and he isnt smart enough to make this argument either.
C-Note, welcome and congratulations for such an insightful debut. Does your name refer to your IQ? Perhaps you should go by 50 Cent.
> Cowher and Rooney seem to blow it off, and everyone in the league does not seem to think it is a big deal. What are we missing?
First of all, it's not good for the NFL as a whole for this "scandal" to go on and on and on undermining the integrity of the games, regardless of who was or wasn't engaged in this form of cheating. Second, I think Spygate is overrated from a benefit standpoint (as opposed to the principle of the matter, where the Patriots should and have been severely punished), at least against the standard where the fans of any team that ever played the Belichick Patriots and lost now question whether they otherwise should have won those games (hello, Arlen Specter).
I'm open and receptive to any new information (so let's talk to this Matt Walsh fellow, get to the bottom of the latest accusation, and put that to rest), but must admit that on the specific subject of taping, interpreting and using defensive signals, I've had enough. It was unseemly and maybe marginally effective, but no game results are ever going to be changed. As Ryan suggested in the base article, I'm content with the Patriots' historic Super Bowl loss serving as some kind of karmic revenge for the rest of the league.
C-note,
18-1. That's all I have to say. 18-1 baby. Can't wait to hear your excuses while I sit hear and remember the Steelers' five superbowl wins.
...and bring your friends on over. We'd love to chat with them.
Hmmm 750 k in fines. I suspect the league felt it was pretty damn bad. They may want to hide it now but the Pats did what they did for a reason. They sought to gain an unfair advantage(THEY CHEATED). They were not taking film because they loved the Steelers or any other team. Get real all....they are tarnished . We all know it.
...Or doesn't anyone want to be seen badmouthing the Pats, while they are hoping someone else does the dirty work...
TM | 02.15.08 - 3:16 pm
I am going with that one, TM. Rooney is pretty respected in and out of the league, and my guess is he doesn't want to look like a whiner.
Also, to C-note, I really feel pity for you. I would hate to be the fan of a team who cheated. It must be rough knowing that all those teams you rooted for had to cheat to win. Then to see that team lose on the biggest stage in the biggest game of the season after their cheating was exposed, what a punch to the gut that must have been. I find it remarkable that I haven't read of the suicide rates or wife-punching going up amongst Patriot fans after that loss.
I think what happened was that after Bellicheck was fired in Cleveland he decided if he ever got another head coaching job he was never going to get fired again and would do whatever it takes to win. Just my 2˘.
...and so it begins. I wonder if this lawsuit has a chance?
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com...ex.html?
cnn=yes
In leiu of money, they should sue to make the team rename itself the Cheatriots.
Men....
A buddy of mine is a true Pats fan (meaning that he can spell and put together a logical sentence - ahem C-Joke) and is extremely dejected right now. He cannot get over the Super Bowl loss and every time he turns on ESPN it's about SpyGate. As a fan, he is ashamed and embarrassed. He commented about how long of an off-season this will be...
I did remind him, and remind all of you that the Combine is next week - let's talk some Football.
Here's the Schedule:
http://www.nfl.com/nflnetwork/st...eo&
confirm=true
Ryan...McFadden huh? Interesting....
For those of you scoring at home (or elsewhere):
http://pit.scout.com/2/729326.html
For some reason, until Super Bowl week, the public and press focus on the Pats cheating was almost entirely on videotaping defensive signals. Then the Rams Super Bowl walk-through issue was raised and got attention.
But these are the tip of the iceberg. Teams that have raised specific accusations against the Pats include the Jets, Bills, Packers, Lions and Jaguars. Some of these allegations include:
1. jamming the frequency of communications between opposing teams' QBs and coaches (as reported on CBS by ex-GM Charley Casserly, who said they did this in crucial moments of a playoff game against the Jags)
2. jamming the communications between the sideline coaches and the coaches in the boxes above
3. using devices to communicate with players on the field other than the QB
4. Sending spies into opponents locker rooms to steal plays from the boards
5. Andrea Kremer of NBC reported that several teams believed that the Patriots stole playbooks from the visitors' dressing room.
While all of these are allegations were published in respectable news outlets, they've gotten little attention. I suspect that there are several other shoes to drop on all this.
While all of these are allegations were published in respectable news outlets, they've gotten little attention. I suspect that there are several other shoes to drop on all this.
Easy Like Sunday Morning | 02.16.08 - 2:37 pm
I do not doubt it. As much as I love the Steelers and NFL football, I hope the entire truth comes out. Many Pat fans have put forth the idea that many or all teams have committed the same transgressions. I hope the Steelers have not, and am pretty sure they have not. My guess is if they had, Cowher would not have lost all those conference championship games. So, I go back to this:
I think what happened was that after Bellicheck was fired in Cleveland he decided if he ever got another head coaching job he was never going to get fired again and would do whatever it takes to win. Just my 2˘.
As much as I don't like C-note, I still don't entirely disagree with the notion that none of the charges REALLY strike me as much more than....typical high-school-style hooliganism? I mean, stealing playbooks: that's been going on for as many years as there's been playbooks. And MANY stadiums' away teams report "suspicious radio jamming" . I don't know......I'm so repulsed by the US Gov't for getting involved in sports that I am struggling to really care about Spygate. It all really seems like it is....the kind of stuff I would have basically tried to do if I played high school football.
Many Pats fans? I'd say that just about every vocal Patriots fan is sure that every other team cheats in all the same ways. And what is their evidence? Other teams must cheat because the Patriots were caught red-handed.
I love the vitriol directed at the "rat" Mangini, as if he was supposed to just sit there and let his team get bullied.
I also love the vitriol directed at Specter and Pennsylvania in Ryan's fanhouse post -- as if this is some war-mongering, Republican, Pennsylvania-centered attack on the poor put upon Patriots. Not that it matters, but I'm a Pennsylvania-born Democrat that doesn't always agree with Specter to say the least. Yet it's beyond me how cheating at football could be seen as a partisan political issue.
>I think what happened was that after Bellicheck was fired in Cleveland he decided if he ever got another head coaching job he was never going to get fired again and would do whatever it takes to win. Just my 2˘.
You know, you may be right. How does a guy who couldn't win the big game at CLE win so many at NE? Shady Brady? Maybe. Maybe not.
All I have to say about Spygate is this:
"I believe in God and his Son Jesus Christ. [The Patriots] lost and that is a tragedy. But the reason they lost is because they had no code, no honor, and God was watching."
Free HSS subscription--no, that joke's getting old--free ticket to the Kraft/Belichick/Brady congressional hearings for the first to name the movie.
Men....
NFLDraftScout has two Mock Drafts Posted:
One has the Steelers taking Sam Baker, OT, USC:
http://www.nfldraftscout.com/index.php
And the other, Jeff Otah from Pitt:
http://www.nfldraftscout.com/moc...und=1&
year=2008
Matt--
It's not a partisan issue, it's a government-is-getting-dumb-issue. Here's my question: will there be a congressional hearing on whether or not there is holding on every play soon?
Chiefs are set to release center Casey Weigmann. Anybody know anything about him? He's 31, but could be good for a year or two (although i suspect he's not interested in signing a one- or two-year deal).
Ryan...
He played here in Chicago prior to Olin Kruetz....not bad actually....
But why are the Chiefs cutting him? Cap casualty?
SteelerBill,
Not sure (they have plenty of cap room), but GM Carl Peterson has talked about the o-line being old and there's a youth movement afoot in KC.
Ryan...
Is your thinking that we sign Mr. Weigmann plus draft a Center to eventually replace him?
SteelerBill,
I haven't given it much thought, but your idea sounds good. Basically anything that gets Mahan off the field.
Assuming Wiegmann can still play, and could be signed for a reasonable amount, I think that would be an ideal arrangement.
I don't want the Steelers to gamble the entire 08 season on a camp battle between Mahan and a rookie...
Eric...amen..
I am beginning to see the camp battles of last year as a harbinger of what was to come. It wasn't a battle of the Titans..it was mediocrities trying to be the last man with his head above the muck. And thus a starter.
Nothing prepared me for watching line play over and over on my PVR and seeing Mahan getting pushed BACK on almost every snap against 3-4 D`s. I had JJ's writeups in hand as I watched and you didn't need to be a grizzled vet of the O-line game to see just how overmatched he was on almost every snap. I don't recall even Oliver Ross being that inept on a snap to snap basis.
A rookie vs. Mahan confrontation would more than likely result in another year of 40+ sacks. And my great fear is that Ben wouldn't survive the season.
A minor celebrity siting today: As I was getting on a flight in Miami, an airline attendant announced Dave Barry's name over the loudspeaker, asking him to come to the counter to pick up his ticket. Sure enough, it was him. He has that hair that looks like it was cut by beavers.
Randy,
Beavers? What are you talking about?
That's actually pretty funny. By the way, can he play center?
Wasn't there some terrible, terrible sitcom based on Dave Barry's life?
For that matter, what was the name of the terrible, terrible sitcom based on Kornheiser's life?
For THAT matter, where's the terrible, terrible sitcom based on MY life?
Men...according to SCI.com the Steelers have shown interest in Indiana's WR James Hardy - he's 6-6 (ahem!) 220 playmaker...who has great timing and leaping ability according to the site..
Mike,
Yes, yes there was. It had Harry Anderson in it. But I can't remember the name of the show.
Harry Anderson, by the way, was at his peak when he was on Cheers. Of course, everyone was at their peak when they were on cheers.
Bill - I really hope it is a smokescreen, or that James Hardy is a late round guy. I see no point in the Steelers use any of their picks in rounds 1-4 on anything other than offensive or defensive line... I can see the argument for secondary, but stretching outside of those three positions would make my football-uneducated brain question the sanity of the Steelers' front office.
I've held my tongue since the first week of September, and I figure that's long enough.
The goal of a football game is to score more points than your opponent. If your offense knows what the opposing defense is doing, you have a major advantage. Knowing what the defense is doing allows you to get your blocking schemes straight, allows you to know where the coverage is and where the open spots are. It reduces turnovers via interception. It reduces sacks. It reduces pressure. Once you get the lead, it forces the opposing offense to play differently than the game-plan dictated. If the lead is substantial, the opposing offense has to pass more, making them more predictable. Stealing defensive signals is a huge advantage. For those who say it isn't, the coffee has finished brewing. Time to wake up.
Free agency. Quality free agents want to go where? Sure, to the team that hands them a stack of cash. They also want to go to a contender for the title. Winning a ring is a huge lure for guys like Harrison, Thomas, Dillon, Moss, etc. If your team is winning by secretly cheating, you have an advantage in the free agent market over, say, the Cardinals. Stealing signals and winning games has a snowball effect.
Congress. Congress awards anti-trust exemptions. In short, Congress allows the NFL to exist. The NFL is an enormous part of the economy of many major American cities, not just to the guys that play the game or own the teams. Restaurants, hotels, cab companies, convenience stores, airlines, parking lots, concession companies, etc. have a lot at stake. If the game isn't on the up-and-up, there is more in jeopardy than the win/loss column. How many coaches got rear-ended because their teams couldn't get over the hump? How many players missed out on the payday that would have come with a championship under their belt?
What Belichick did absolutely had an effect on many people's careers, and it has/had the potential to adversely effect a lot more than that. He has besmirched the integrity of the league and should be banned.
Lastly, I take it from the fact that the Pats haven't been blowing teams out (in Super Bowls and over the course of the regular season during the past seven years) that the Pats are, at their core, a mediocre football team. Without the cheating, they might be the Chiefs or the Bengals. Without the cheating, Brady might be Casey Weldon - can make the throws but can't handle pressure.
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