heels, sox & steelers
I'm not sure of the protocol here but I'm continuing discussion on the new thread. Another article, this from the NY Times suggesting the Rooney Family is "Considering Selling Part of the Steelers" and citing the Steelers web site as the source. I'vwe read the release on the Steelers Web site and find no suggestions they are considering selling to outside interests. Are these guys making this up? The reporting is not backed up by their sources.
Sherm...here is an update:
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/0...0/895537-
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First its Ben not getting the props for his outstanding season last year. Now Charlie has to take a back seat to a kid who hasn't played a down in the NFL but "inspires far more confidence in the fan base" than arguably the finest backup QB in the NFL. I know.consider the source and all that..but shouldn't there be a modicum of facts and common sense brought to bear in putting together a comment?
I am in a bad mood after a spring and early summer spent telling people that yes..Ben had one of the best years by a QB last year. You could look it up on the internets. Or the informatation super highway. REally.
Thanks Steeler Bill. I guess I'm obsessing on this a bit but it's the dead time and I suffering from a lack of Steeler News
Does anyone else think Dixon looks a wee bit dainty for the job?
I hear that Dennis Dixon is going to use his $130,000 signing bonus to buy the team....(bad joke I know)..
Oh and check this out - he put this together for NFL Scouts that questioned his ability to play after his injury:
http://dennisdixon10.com/
More on the Rooney's from the FanHouse, compliments of MDS:
http://sports.aol.com/fanhouse/2...ooneys-bl/
#cont
Now I'm concerned - lifelong Steeler fan or not I don't want to become one of those franchises that chases the Bill Parcells of the world....:
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/0...1/895721-
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A buddy of equated the Rooneys not owning the Steelers to waking up and finding out that your dad isn't your dad anymore...
See what happens when you post prior to your coffee in the morning - your sentences don't make sense....
I have some feelings on this, I'm just not sure what they are. Insightful, huh?
Actually, this doesn't necessarily have to be a bad thing, although, Dan Snyder has ruined it for every relatively young uber-rich guy who wants to own a sports team.
Okay, I don't want to talk about it -- my head hurts.
Eph
Although the new guy sounds OK, this completely sucks. One of the reasons the Steelers have been so great the last 30 years is the Rooneys.
I don't want the Steelers to become just another franchise.
Eph Eph Eph Eph
I don't like.
I don't like it either..but its one of those family succession things that eventually play out in public..or the courts. Its all speculative but these kind of things where you "determine value" can cause large rifts between the people involved.
At this point, I don't know what to think. I'm with Ryan on this one..We'll know when we know.
I'll play devil's advocate-- I think an infusion of some wealth into the franchise can be a good thing, especially if the Rooneys remain in charge of the business anyway (and Dan isn't going to live forever, while Art II is hardly a proven institution). With the NFL's latest CBA being blown up and the possibility that the salary cap and revenue sharing might eventually meet a similar (or at least diminished) fate, the prospect of Dan Rooney's family taking on serious debt to preserve its ownership control is hardly reassuring. With Pittsburgh still a shrinking, relatively economically depressed city, I wouldn't want to see the Steelers marginalized due to market size and longtime but cash-poor family ownership, a la the Buffalo Bills.
The Steelers have been good (not great) over the past 30 years, but the reality is that today's NFL business climate doesn't remotely resemble that of the 1970's. New blood and new ideas don't have to be bad things...
GlennW
True, but we've had good owners for so long, it's more likely that even with more money, the next owner is not going to have the same success as the Rooneys.
Although, an uncapped year with one of the richest owners in the league is intriguing.
> True, but we've had good owners for so long, it's more likely that even with more money, the next owner is not going to have the same success as the Rooneys.
Realistically, almost no one could, at least not without some extreme good fortune. The Rooneys haven't been nearly as successful as they used to be, and likely won't be moving forward either. Just as the Rooneys were in the 1970's, the new-blood Krafts are the NFL's current model ownership (albeit under fortuitous circumstances in both cases), with their more efficient value-based player evaluation system, and yes, their increased revenue streams and deeper pockets.
I guess the bigger point is that times change whether we like it or not, and the big money is squeezing smaller markets even in the presence of revenue sharing and a salary cap. If the Steelers did allow someone like Druckenmiller to buy into the franchise, I'd be completely open to judging him on his own merits, as opposed to measuring him against the last 40 (but not first 40) seasons of Steeler football under Art and Dan Rooney, which is futile.
Ditto Glenn's remark: Consider the possible fate of this franchise owned and run solely by a surviving Rooney(s) who is severely strapped for cash because of an onerous settlement with his siblings.
One penny-pinching pro team in town is more than enough, don't you think?
I agree with you guy's..but it's just sad that's all..
According to an update on Channel 11 here in Pittsburgh just now, the deal with Druckenmiller could be finished within 10 days.
Something about the winds of change......
OK
I've been convinced. I don't want to end up like the Bills, and have the team move cities.
So put me down.
I never thought the Browns would move. I lived in Oregon at the time, and remember it was headline news in the Oregonian at the time.
I do not want the Steelers to move.
If there is to be a new owner, so be it. But I hope to hell he does not decide that a 800 million to a billion dollar franchise should be relocated. I always knew the Steelers were the class of the NFL and probably worth more than other team. This fellow sounds like a Pittsburgh guy, and I hope he is. If I were him, I would go on tv and say the Steelers will never move. Who else could harass Carson Palmer in such a fine way? Hopefully this guy is not a Dan Snyder. Maybe a bit of Paul Allen. When you acquire a company, you put the right people in place. Look at Steve Jobs and Pixar.
If there is an NFL without the Pittsburgh Steelers, I would not watch. Call me hysterical if you want, but I have witnessed very few changes of ownership that have worked out well. I would pay about as much attention as I do the indoor football league.
To Matt; I am a pessimist and expect the worst.
Why does anyone think the Steelers might move? This is a terrifically successful franchise in every way. The guys who have the money to buy into this franchise didn't get it by being stupid.
The Steelers aren't moving anywhere.
I was only referring to the cash problem of the Bills' owners, not that there is any move underfoot to move the team.
I was also speculating that having an owner with deeper pockets would probably ensure the franchise's long term health.
> Why does anyone think the Steelers might move?
I don't think that there's any chance of that in the foreseeable future, period. Recall that the Browns' relocation had absolutely nothing to do with an ownership change; rather that was old-school longtime owner Art Modell moving out because he was "losing money" and Cleveland wouldn't build him a new stadium (which we already have, along with a longterm lease).
As opposed to a filthy rich Steelers fan such as Druckenmiller, I could just as easily see some Rooney grandkid eventually saying, hey, I'm property rich but cash poor, and never wanted anything to do with football in the first place. Actually, that seems to be the current situaton with at least three of the Rooney brothers, with a fourth (Art Jr) having been flat-out fired by Dan over 20 years ago and forced into a similar situation. Just because it's a great family name doesn't necessarily mean that the tradition will be upheld, forever. Hell, this is a new corporate world in which Adolphus Busch XXIV wants to sell A-B to overseas interests and control the company from there. There are no guarantees either way, but I actually feel better with well-heeled interests locked in.
Remember when gullible people (like me) read Chris Mortensen's reports about what an awesome athlete Matt Jones was, and wanted him as a Steeler?
Heath Miller's worked out just a bit better than Jones -- and that was before the cocaine.
By the way old, I get that you're a pessimist. I think it goes with the territory -- being from Pittsburgh or just a Steelers fan, or both. I just try to fight the urge, before I wind up like my father and cannot even bear to watch the games anymore for stress and fear of the outcome.
I just think it's odd that people think things like "the Steelers must be a run-first team because, well, they just must." Or because of Tommy Maddox, or Kordell, or O'Donnell (though that worked pretty well for that year) or whatever.
Or because of the weather even -- though Favre and Brady have done pretty well for themselves in terms of both stats and wins as cold weather city outdoor QBs.
There's an ESPN insider QB ranking up now that calls Ben the 3rd best QB in the league, which is about right I think. They should still be balanced and still run, but this isn't Tommy Maddox we got here.
GlennW, you wrote that the Steelers have been good (not great) over the last 30 years. Huh? Which NFL franchise has been better than the Steelers over the last 30 years? That period includes 3 SB wins, one SB loss, and 9 AFC Championship Games. We've probably had fewer down years than anyone (such as SF and NE, who have been terrible for stretches during that time), with either the most or among the most division titles and playoff appearances over that time. Plus the team has never had any real scandals or general jackassery (such as the Cowboys).
If you extend the timeline from 30 to 36 years, you can throw in 2 more Super Bowl wins and 4 more AFCCGs, plus the Immaculate Reception. If you were going to make a list of the best professional sports franchises over the last 30-40 years, there can't be more that an handful that are even worth adding to the discussion.
> GlennW, you wrote that the Steelers have been good (not great) over the last 30 years. Huh?
Sorry-- I was using roughly "30 years" to represent the decades of the 1980s-2000s, while specifically stating that the business climate and successes of the 1970s are in the fairly distant past. One Super Bowl victory and two SB appearances over the past 28 seasons is about par for the course (in a 28-32 team league over that period). Multiple losing AFCCG appearances and an overall winning record over that period is better than par, but those successes still represent "good (not great)" performance. We're all proud of the 1970s, but beyond that tradition since 1980 the Steelers have been the rough equivalent of the Denver Broncos or such (and nothing terribly wrong with that).
This would all be selective application of data if I were rating the Rooney ownership over its entire existence, but I'm not doing that (they rate A+ by that standard). I'm just acknowledging that the 1970s have little relevance to today, when Chuck Noll, Art Sr, and even Art Jr are long gone. I'm a Dan Rooney fan, but I don't think he (or anyone, except Ryan) is irreplaceable, and can portend next to nothing about the talents/wisdom of Art II. Everything has its time and place, but in sports dynasties rarely last.
Admittedly I'm now obsessed with the Steeler ownership story, but did come across a good article authored by Jason Whitlock on 'Football Night in America':
http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/sto...ds-is-a-bad-
act
Behind the Steel Curtain did a good article on the Druckenmiller dude, in case anyone missed it. I think that guy has his priorities straight, but time will tell. I don't want a "Jerry Jones/ Dan Snyder" type running the Steelers, any more than you guys do. When I was hoping for Lord Stanley in Pittsburgh last month, this wasn't exactly what I had in mind.
I think it's easy to take a lot of the longterm success that the Steelers have had for granted. And it's even easier sometimes to forget the HUGE role that the Rooney brothers and their father played in all of that. Other teams like the Cardinals have sucked for years because of poor ownership, Detroit as well.
The Rooneys have played a bigger role in the Steelers success than any player or coach ever has or will.
Just the thought of them not being around nearly makes me sick.
Here's the latest
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/0...3/896345-
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Oh and 16 days until camp..
Here are some edited snippets from an interesting analysis of the Brown's QB Derek Anderson in SCI. I've focused mostly on the negatives.
There isn't a pass Anderson isn't capable of making, but he struggles in the short passing game...
He shows a tendency to not follow through on the ball and his footwork is not precise. This effects timing, balance and release point in the short passing game. Anderson is sporadic throwing touch passes—he tends to float the ball when trying to be precise. And he will guide the ball or throw flat-footed in these situations...
Like most other big arm QB's, Anderson, who is 6'6" tall, is not pinpoint accurate, but can get the ball into an area where his receivers can make a play. His passing is helped immeasurably by Braylon Edwards and Kellen Winslow's skills...
But once the opposition takes away the vertical game (focusing on Braylon Edwards) with double-coverage or rollover help, Anderson's questionable short game skills become costly and could pose a problem in the 2008 season.
Anderson often will stare down a receiver and wait too long to try to make a play downfield. He doesn't consistently look off a safety, and at times looks through a linebacker, relying too much on his arm to try to make plays. He struggles when teams rotate coverage and provide help over the top. His inconsistency in recognizing and checking down quickly leads to interceptions.
This QB has issues at times following the primary read, notably when a defense disguises itself well with movement. Anderson is not as quick as you would like to see a starting QB be in reacting and with his check-down progressions.
So, anyone out there terrified of the Browns this season?
GlennW, thanks for your clarification, which I pretty much agree with.
Also, I like what I hear from Druckenmiller. He seems like a perfect fit: even if he bought the whole team in cash, he'd have $2.5 billion left over, so he won't need to worry every about how it performs as a short-term investment (unlike, say, the other Rooney brothers who haven't received the yearly dividends they'd like). Plus, he's clearly a long-time and passionate fan who wants to win and seems to respect the Steelers successful model of the past. He also seems more mature than Snyder or Jerry Jones (or, yikes, Mark Cuban). And he unambiguously stated he'd keep the team in Pittsburgh, which should be a non-issue.
And, according to a source for Adam Caplan, a writer at SCI, Max Starks is penciled in as the starting RT for 2008.
"There's a consideration to play Willie Colon inside at left guard against fourth-year lineman Chris Kemoeatu...
"Where Colon winds up playing could be tied to where Max Starks lines up. The current plan is to play Starks at right tackle as long as left tackle Marvel Smith is healthy. Sources close to Smith say the back problems that caused him to miss four games last season aren't an issue."
Still don't understand why Colon wouldn't slide inside to RG. Smith-Kemo-Hartwig-Colon-Starks.
I don't understand it either, but it has to do with the continued push -- in the press, at least -- for Kendall Simmons.
Maybe it has to do with the contract he just signed, which would be a bit sad but might factor into it.
Maybe it has to do with them planning to use Simmons differently this year, or thinking that he'll be better this year for some well-founded or merely hopeful reason.
Maybe it's all a smokescreen.
Whatever the reason is for keeping him penciled in for now, they have to know that he was mediocre to bad last year at times. No matter how much OL tape JJ Cooper and Dagger break down, I bet the Steelers probably watch a little more tape of themselves.
I hope FW's OL is what we'll see. Bye bye Kendall and Mahan, at least as starters.
And the fact that the Steelers sucked 41 years ago is now an issue in the presidential campaign: http://nfl.fanhouse.com/2008/07/...-doesnt-add-up/
And, according to a source for Adam Caplan, a writer at SCI, Max Starks is penciled in as the starting RT for 2008.
"There's a consideration to play Willie Colon inside at left guard against fourth-year lineman Chris Kemoeatu...
"Where Colon winds up playing could be tied to where Max Starks lines up. The current plan is to play Starks at right tackle as long as left tackle Marvel Smith is healthy. Sources close to Smith say the back problems that caused him to miss four games last season aren't an issue."
With all due respect Randy Steele, that is the biggest bunch of jibberish I've ever read. That writer has no more idea than any of us, he just knows how to couch his ignorance better.
Oh, and Finny, I agree with your line calls.
FW`s lineup has the ring of "rightness" about it.
"Still don't understand why Colon wouldn't slide inside to RG. Smith-Kemo-Hartwig-Colon-Starks."
But its given me that fear of the unknown. Kemo- new position, first year as a full time starter, Hartwig- first year with team Colon- new position Starks- really because we have noone else to plug in there..I'm not a fan.
Where do you think we'll be after 8 games with this kind of transition? (and its unavoidable..we have to do some serious musical chairs this offseaon) I really believe we will be lucky to reach 4-4..
Yes. I am optimistic about this team in general, but the O-line is like a huge dark cloud on my perception. The problem is I have very little confidence in any of those names other than Marvel Smith.
What this camp needs is a wild card to come through and really challenge for one of the starting positions. We need better players than what seems to qualify as true starter material at the moment.
Rob, do you prefer a team that feared an inside rush to the point that it ran a hobbled-QB sweep behind Essex in a bog?
Don't really care if that interior is swept out.
http://www.postgazette.com/pg/08...5/896745-
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This latest piece from yesterday's PP-G portrays the Rooney ownership situation as being more contentious than we had previously been led to believe (based on the quotes from family members).
Found this link to the Baltimore Sun on Mondesis House: http://weblogs.baltimoresun.com/
...e_devils_o.html
How bad do they hate the Steelers in Baltimore? I was suprised by the results.
Side note....
Did anyone catch the Brett Favre interview on Greta Van Susteren's show last night?
My wife even commented that it was one of the more bizarre interviews she has seen...
What is going on with him (Brett)? (Meant as an open-ended talk amongst yourselves question)..
The Jones thing is boggling. IMO, We're four deep with little room to wiggle: 1 and 1a with FWP and RM; an excellent jack-of-all-trades back in MW; the young and healthy back with great potential upside, GR. (Jones is soon 25, Russell is just shy of 22; Jones had a nasty Lisfranc, which instantly reminds me of the gray-suited 22, whereas GR is healthy as a horse.)
This makes sense only if Jones is being brought in primarily as a KR/PR, or if we have some substantial trade interest for Gary Russell. Me personally, I don't see Jones as a return guy, and unless some team's coughing up a day 1 pick for GR... Jones is too much risk, this is all ridiculous.
FW, there is another possibility, although I do not believe in it myself: There could be substantial trade interest for FWP!
BTW, there is an Every Play Counts on the Jaguars' front four (see link below), and it deals with their regular season game against the Steelers.
FW, there is another possibility, although I do not believe in it myself: There could be substantial trade interest for FWP!
BTW, there is an Every Play Counts on the Jaguars' front four (see link below), and it deals with their regular season game against the Steelers.
Sorry if I just reposted the same comment from 18 hours ago. Haloscan is obviously having me on.
To add something new to the mix: I started reading PFP backwards yesterday (nobody else does that, right?), and I noticed that last year, by FO metrics
- Allen Rossum was the worst punt returner in the league
- Kendall Simmons was among the players with the most blown blocks (albeit as the only Steeler on this end of the list)
- Willie Colon was among the players with the most offensive fouls (albeit the only Steeler)
- Daniel Sepulveda was among the top punters, whereas Adam Podlesh (drafted four spots ahead of him by JAX) and Matt Barr (cut by the Steelers IIRC) were among the worst. On the other hand, Andy Lee (invited by the Steelers prior to the draft, but retained by the 49ers) was the best
- The Steelers' offense was considerably worse with the play fake as with 'conventional' offense.
Interesting.
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