Cob Pile
From all the various articles I have read about this, you would think that an economic black hole is forming. And from my prespective, it seems that Canada will be sucked into it. We shall soon see.
All because American consumers living beyond their means, living on credit, the apparent root cause is the giving mortgages to the non-qualified. Plus the usual corporate CEO greed.
This is much more complex and scary than we can grasp. Fasten your seatbelts, it is going to be a bumpy ride. I already lost 10% of my personal retirement funds, here's hoping for a big bounce back soon. But I am doubtful that will happen.
ptg,
I'm afraid you have to count me in the Reluctantly for the Bailout camp. The situation is very dangerous, and I'm afraid that a crash will give us 50 yrs of socialism. Maybe the bailout will only give us 5 yrs of socialism.
But if you think they look happy in that picture, check out this one.
Et tu, Abus? You and Newt? Succombing to the Leftist's fear tactics, eh. It makes me sad to think that so many Americans value comfort and wealth above liberty. But, as long as you are reluctant...
Why do you think the situation is dangerous? Where is the danger in fools losing their money? A crash followed by a non-government directed recovery would strengthen the cause of freedom.
No one knows how fast the nation would have recovered from the crash of '29 without the New Deal. Besides, the crash of '29 was accompanied by a general global economic depression that was not intimately related to our market crash, but was driven by bad weather and the adoption of Marxist thought in Europe and Asia.
Have you lost any cash? Are you having trouble borrowing? Unless you are invested in things that aren't backed by real equity, recovery for you should be swift.
As the free Frisians once told foreign tribute collectors, "Better dead than a slave." As they used to say in the '50's, "Better dead than Red." So say I.
And I say this in the sure and certain knowledge that not one cent of the bailout will come from my pockets. I don't pay for such commie crap and never will. I don't compromise with evil.
Lever dod as Slaav!
CG: If your retirement package is invested in sound businesses with assets whose values are honestly measured you should have a full recovery. Unless, of course, your assets are further depleted to bail out idiots who weren't invested so prudently.
All bailouts ever accomplish is the further erosion of personal responsibility. Caveat emptor isn't just advice, it is an immutable truth. If you suffer permanent loss, then it will be because you ignore this truth.
I won't be lending a hand. I have always advised anyone that asked to keep a significant portion of their assets in gold. But few asked and of them as did, fewer still listened to my answer.
When the value of marketed equities deviates upward from the actual utility value of the assets they represent, these investments should be liquidated in proportion to the deviation. If more realistically valued equities aren't then available, the proceeds of said liquidation goes into the jar of gold buried in the back yard.
When good investment opportunities arise (something that happens with far less frequency than the brokers would have you believe; most ideas are bad ideas) buy them with the proceeds from selling over-valued equities or by digging up some of your gold.
Gold is not an investment. It produces nothing. Gold is simply a great sweep account for investors.
Retirement funds and any other investments managed by others are inherently risky. I barely trust cats I know and see every day; I would hesitate to loan most any of them $100. Why would I trust strangers to manage my meager assets?
Financial hard times are coming, but mostly for fools who misplaced their trust and their money. For everyone else, losses will largely be a result of unwarranted compassion.
PTG:
--My RRSP's(Registered Retirement Savings Plan) are into mutual funds(mostly blue chip companies, 75% Canadian); I pay a 2% management fee every year regardless of the funds performance. I recognize this as a lazy man's way of investing, supposely I am to trust the experts to make my retirement funds grow. However I am disillusioned of late and with the wonderful hindsight we all possess, I should have cashed out, I actually considered doing so during early 2007 when my fund value plateaued out well before the sharp drop of third quarter of 2008. Back early 2007, I did believe a black cloud was on the horizon due to the sub prime issues that were bubbling up since 2006. But I did not expect it to be so brutal to the American financial system.
So for now, I will sit tight and hope the worse is behind us. But I am pessimistic, it would not surprise me that this bailout fails in its objectives and the next big worry we will have is rampant inflation, a retiree's worse nightmare
Your concerns are well founded, CG. I'd apologize for the actions of my government, but I quit feeling guilty about anything the US Congress has done in 1976, when I became a crypto-anarchist.
If you think your retirement looks grim, I'm looking at living in a 40' shipping container hidden in the forest, heating with wood and living on game. I'll call it La Casa de Go Away, I've got a Gun.
Hope you're right, ptg. Looks like we're about to ride the rollercoaster to the bottom.
I hate Mondays.
The real economy is based on valuable physical assets, a productive labor force and abundant natural resources. Our best industries own such assets, our labor force's productivity is second to none and America is blessed with natural resources and potential energy like no place else on earth. The economy will be emerge stronger than ever.
Don't waste any tears over the collapse of the part of our economy that has been doomed from its inception. I mean the part based on pure hype, virtual assets like 'derivatives', unworkable eco-nut market schemes like cap and trade or phony carbon credits. Let these bad ideas pass, along with the Marxist thought that was supposed to drive them. If you were invested in them, kiss that money a belated good-bye. It had its bags packed up under the bed a long time ago.
Think of the present adjustment as a costly lesson. Don't throw it away; we all can learn from it. I'm giving thanks to the stalwarts in Congress who refused to panic. I just hope their resolve lasts out the coming few weeks and months. Let the howling and hand-wringing begin.
With apologies to Byron:
The widows of Marx are loud in their wail,
And the idols are broke in the temple of Bail.
The "costly lesson" has yet to begin I would think. I hope it scares some sense into us, especially Congress and the candidates.
I don't think it will be as bad or last as long as advertised, DG. At least now we might get a chance to watch free market forces work as they should, without the mindless manipulators in government perverting its natural tendency toward growth and prosperity, inadvertently or not.
I wouldn't put it past some folks to have been trying to gin up a big economic crisis as part of a political power grab. Call me paranoid, but...
It's encouraging that the market drop was "only" 7% today. If things were really as fragile as we have been told, I'd have expected much worse.
Feel better Abe?
For more relief, read this reality check I just linked: Some perspective for the Chicken Littles. Relax.
Prosperity you can believe in is just around the corner.
I like yer scope, pt. What's to grieve about a sick, phony economy going under? It's death knell (as you rightly point out) was engraved in its origins.
DJ down 7%? B.F.D. It has been worse than that several times in the past - and we're still here.
Gimme a packing crate in the woods over Perrier and forced good cheer anytime.
I am sooooo proud of the House Republicans ...yeehaw ....
I'm proud of our Republicans in the House, too. UW. I'll call them tomorrow morning and tell them so. My guy proved he had some berries today! Not bad for a former Lincoln City Councilman.
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