Typically this one thing happens during first impressions, so it's very surprising that years have gone by before she let her guard down around you. What do you suppose caused her little crack in the armour?
In my experience, it typically doesn't happen during a first meeting/impression.
People are generally careful in my field about being politically correct.
She obviously felt comfortable enough to say what she did, and that took some time...but I've talked about my husband to her, and she about hers to me...but like I said, I never felt the need to slip his race into it. It was never relevant. Apparently, some people need this vital information to keep their masks in place.
How long had you known her? I have heard that you don't know anyone well until you've seen him/her in all kinds of different situations, with different challenges, and that takes -- generally -- 2 years. Of course, if you see someone infrequently then getting to really know her would take longer.
This is a bottom line issue -- I have issues like that, too, as you know. We all have an issue that is make or break in friendships, but it's always a disappointment when you find out your bottom line standard is not met. If it's any consolation, this woman might actually rethink her attitude now since she realizes she "knows" someone in a biracial marriage, someone she likes. She might not have known anyone in one before and therefore allowed herself her little prejudices. Rad, it could be an eye-opening experience for her even if she was flustered at the time. I understand that you would never think of her the same way now, but maybe the penny has now droped for her and this might turn out to have been educational.
I have had these chats with her for the past year or so. We're not close by any means...where I work there are over 40 people...some of which I've never had a conversation with. I've seen her in the halls for 5 years, but only started talking to her in the past year or so, because she's been stationed on my floor for that long.
Maybe the penny dropped, but I venture to think that she'll be too embarrassed to offer an apology, and really...I'm not convinced that our little chats have changed her opinion in any way.
Maybe we'll have an opportunity to re-visit our discussion about "them" and "us", but it'll be up to her to initiate it
I'd never be able to look at her the same again, either. I have friends who think differently than I do, and I'm perfectly OK with a wide range of opinions and politics and religious beliefs and family situations, etc. -- but racism is one of the two things I cannot deal with. I just can't be friendly with a bigot. Period.
Listen, I'm with you. Maybe she didn't mean it the way it came out...but what was said can't be taken back, and it'll stick with me everytime I see her.
There was a time a few years ago, when I was doing a unit on India, and some of the children had brought in bindis and all the girls were wearing them, and so was I. One of the parents in passing said something rude that escapes me at this moment about "making" the children wear these things on their heads (including her child who was happy to wear one, and try on beautiful sarees as well). I told her that in my classroom we celebrate the beauty of all cultures, and turned my back on her. She said it within ear shot of one of my little Indian students. I focused on the little girl who heard and was clearly crestfallen by hearing the remark.
The next day the parent made a point of humbly apologizing for what she had said "without thinking"....but I never saw her the same way again.
I couldn't help it. There was a permanent distance created when she so insensitively expressed her distaste for something she wasn't familiar with. What is interesting about this is that the parent who made the comment was of a culture which is also discriminated against. I expected her to be more sensitive. I think this is part of the reason I couldn't just "get over it", even though she seemed sincere when she apologized. I never forgot it, and I hope she hasn't either.
Are you serious? She said, "not all, but...you have to admit..." ?
She said that???
Up until this point in the story, I'd written her off as a typically ignorant bigot. But this makes her an absolute idiot on top.
"You have to admit"????
Admit what? That she's made the self-righteous decision that you belong to the "right" team, and "they" don't? That your husband must be okay, because he married you, but he's one of the "good ones"?
Rad, I would consider NOT associating with this person.
I'm willing to concede that people say things they don't mean, and regret... but these kinds of statements usually emerge when people are angry, or emotionally disturbed. When someone is having a calm, open conversation with you... one that almost seems conspiratorial... they tend to express what they truly think. They reveal the WAY they think.
Besides, do you really want to hang around people like "her"? I mean, you have to admit... you know what "those" people are like. 
H-
P.S. Everytime I learn something new about you, I like you even more. 
Thanks Harding, for the lovely last little P.S.
There are so many subtle underlyings in her comment/defense/explanation. I've heard it before. The "I've been fooled into liking you, so you must be an exception" "You don't fit the stereotype in my head of a woman in an interracial relationship" "You have to admit that I'm mostly right, and your husband is obviously not one of 'them', because I've been caught with my skirt up"
I wish I could say that I've never experienced racism by extension, and neither can The Mister. It's such a convoluted ball of distaste for something that many people have absolutely no experience with in a social setting.
This woman deals with diversity every day...but it's clear that in her head, "they" are them, and "we" are us.
I'll still say good morning...because I work in the environment....but our friendly chats are done
This is a really great anecdote... the subtitle could be assumptions/ presumptions. I expect that the woman you were speaking with has no cultural knowledge outside of her own limited circle and her source of information is gleaned entirely off of the television.
You would be shocked and horrified to know what she does for a living. Sometimes I assume people become desensitized by their jobs. I'm guilty of becoming desensitized by mine. But I've taken my experiences to a different place than she has.
I was listening to the new Dixie Chicks song on the radio in the background and one lyric jumped out at me right after I read your blog tonight:
"It can get pretty lonely when you show yourself"
That can be applied to many, many people and circumstances, no?
Yes, it certainly would.
FUCK HER!
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.
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I love how protective you are of me...
I sit opposite Tony at work, he's black. We were talking about how the UK had become a multiracial society, and I mentioned I had rarely seen black people in my earlier years. Tony told me he went back to Jamaica for a holiday and was in an area well away from the larger towns. People kept coming out of their houses to look at him and more especially his wife, She's white.
Yep. It goes both ways.
You shouldn't have to 'mention' what color your husband is.
Unless of course he is green or purple, that's just common courtesy.
You know, in case I make an off color joke.
how do you slip that shit into conversation?
"Oh yeah...and by the by...here's an FYI in case you're thinking of saying anything racist..." LOL
I think she meant exactly how it came out. There is a right and p.c. way of expressing an observation, but her opinions and observations were peppered with her racially prejudiced thoughts. Maybe her feeling comfortable with you allowed her to feel free to express her opinion, and everyone is entitled to their own. BUT come on, and get with the times lady.. we are all one freakin' race: Humans. Will you feel weird around her at work in the future?
Not weird...just distant. It's not as though we were very close to begin with. It's just that now we definitely won't get closer
Oh, OW! It kinda hurts, doesn't it? You think you know someone, then they pop something like that. It particularly scares me that she deals with diversity every day. Dunnit it make you wonder how the program is limping along if she's not behind it 100%?
I do know how this feels, though. I know people who will "promote" me to Less-Than-Black after a few years, so that makes it OK to talk about how "They" are. Then they wonder why they get the stony stare from me and no more chatty in the kitchen....
The interesting thing G is that I'm certain that she thinks that she is behind it 100%. It's the whole "helping the underdog" syndrome. People pat you on the back and think you're a wonderful person for working with the underpriviliged. I remember when I got my job, for the first few months, I would go to meetings and people were patting me on the back for "coming back to the neighbourhood" to help. (I grew up in the 'hood that I work in)...and I kept thinking WTF? I came back for the job, which happened to be there...I didn't come back to be Mother Teresa. But, I didn't correct them. How do you correct that in my field..."Aww fuck no...I came back to get paid..." That doesn't go over too well in any environment. I have a hard time keeping my mouth shut, but I'm not stupid either
Ouch. But her comeback... Wow, that was really something. Today in the UK some MP or someone has publicly informed us all that black men are more likely to be criminals than white men. Not surprisingly there is a bit of an uproar. Most commentators seem to be asking, even if that is true, what good does it do to come out and say it?
The interesting thing about those stats is that it has more to do with poverty than it does with race. Minorities tend to live in poverty in larger proportions than their white counterparts...so, really it has more to do with economics than it does with race. Discussing it out of context is just ignorant, and doesn't help anything. It just perpetuates a stereotype. I don't see the same stereotypes brought forward for white collar crime, and that happens a lot more than is reported because often companies will cover it up and distance themselves from the bad publicity. I was talking to my accountant the other day about someone in my field who embezzled hundreds and thousands of dollars and is wanted by police. She told me it happens more than I think...the company he worked for? They quietly took his name off the website and are staying mum. No one wants to that kind of thing to sully their reputation of the firm. It's the same shit, just on a different level, and it's predominately white committed.
Here is my problem with racism...its sooooo covered up. Its not blatant and that makes it even harder to deal with.
I remember speaking up in one of my classes that really racism does exist in Canada and yes, in Vancouver and I remember the uproar.
Hell, I was even accused of 'wanting to see it' - as in I made it up to fit my world view. Now as a woman of colour - trust me thats the last thing I want to see especially when it comes to my career and getting a job.
I also remember sitting on a bench after 'it' happened thinking...am I wrong or did that just happen....?
So, you mentioning that you knew this woman for sometime before she actually let her true colours know just reaffirms my point. Its all so PC and multilayered that you actually have to know someone before you know who they and just how they think of you.
Yes Viki, you're right...and the thing is that I feel differently about her, as I'm sure that she now feels differently about me. She saw me as someone that would "probably" agree with her...which makes me check myself. It insults me, but what was it about me that made her feel that I would agree?
Coming at it from a slightly different angle, a couple of years ago at work I was accused of being racist. I'm not. Skin colour or racial heritage isn't an issue with me. But this person accused me of being racist simply because I wouldn't allow them to blame me for a mistake they'd made.
Your colleague can't be forgiven for their 'them' statement. You can't lump all people into one category like that. But racists are racists and arseholes are arseholes regardless of colour. They're just people.
I'm probably going to get grief for saying this aren't I?
No Rad. I've been accused of being a racist too...by the facilitator of a workshop I booked for my staff. She assumed that I was a racist because I initiated debate on the topic of being a victim. I asked where personal responsibility stopped, and being a victim started. I used the case of young girl who charged Mike Tyson with rape. I asked what the girl thought he wanted at 3am, and why she would agree to go with him (a man who was famous for beating his wife, and had been charged with sexual assault), and then when she brought up the whole internet hoax of the word picnic being a combination of the words "pick" and the "n" word, and how people in the south used to pack a lunch to go a'lynchin' or some such nonsense. When I did some research and brought it back for the next workshop...this upset her. She went to my bosses and told them that she feared that I was a racist and that in my position, this was dangerous.
Lucky for me, the board member she initially approached knew me personally and had been to my home....and responded to her by saying..
"really? Well someone should tell her black husband and two black stepchildren she's helping to raise..."
The next time I saw the facilitator, she had a significantly different attitude.
There are some people who are just looking to be offended, and enjoy being indignant. It gives them a certain power over people because they immediately put you on the defense. There are plenty like this. The facilitator was just one. It seemed to me that she and her partner in the workshops focused on the racial and sexual orientation issues that plagued them personally rather than addressing racism and different lifestyles in general.
I may be wrong about this woman I work with, but I doubt it.
Radmila, your response to Rad's comment made fascinating reading. It's bizarre that people don't question some of these spurious "origins" of words before they go off spouting them to others. And then for you to look into this and contradict her... It's like, what did she find most offensive: that you didn't believe her, or that you looked up something with supposed racist connotations? I love your board member's response, too. Real fly-on-the-wall moment, huh?
What I can't stand *(asterisk) are people who hunt for this kind of shit to support their outrageous beliefs that they're being victimized. To me, when she presented it, it seemed like a totally bizarre and stupid thing to put forward. I've studied and read a lot about the civil rights movement, and the history of atrocities done to black people...and I had never, in all my reading ever read something like that...and the idea that the root of the word "picnic" meant what she said didn't even make logical linguistic sense.
When I researched it and found out that it was just an internet hoax, it pissed me off that we were paying her to teach my staff lies and fallacies to suit her and her partners agenda. If I told you how she responded to my question regarding where personal responsibility stopped and victimization started, you would shit to hear her simplistic answer. "When she said NO".
Fuck off. How stupid is that? So, the fact that she was present during the grabbing of other contestants, the mysogynistic comments he made in front of witnesses, the fact that he was already a convicted wife beater, and sexual assaulter...and then shows up outside of her hotel at 3am asking her to go out...and she agrees...what did she think he wanted? A game of dominoes? Women have to THINK about their own safety and base their decisions on what is safe and take steps to protect themselves instead of expecting a stranger to respect their human rights.
The facilitator said I was "blaming the victim", and I told her that I was not blaming the victim...it's unfortunate and terrible that it happened, but you'd have to be a moron to think that there wasn't a risk factor in her leaving her room at 3am with a world renowned mysogynist who outweighs her by about 150lbs.
Duh.
On the board member she approached, it would have worked out the same regardless...if I was brought on the carpet, I would have whipped out a family picture anyway....but yeah, I would have loved to see the look on her face when he told her.
He told me that when she said it to him, he burst out laughing involuntarily...and he said that this made her angry...LOL
On a slightly funny but weird note - my co-worker frequently makes those 'us-versus-them' statements. She also makes crazy comments about how immigrants are taking away our jobs and so on. The funny thing is, atleast I find it funny, is that I was an immigrant not so long ago and clearly am a person colour, and have made it clear many times. Yet, this co-worker of mine seems oblivious to this.
There is almost an internal need in her to make these comments...not to hurt me. Atleast I think not, its like she doesn't realize it at all. I kind of appreciate the naiveness and lack of a facade that other people put on. I dont know how to explain it.
I understand what you're saying.
Yeah, I also meant to get back to you on the Tyson thing. I totally agree with that. The same kind of thing happened with Tupac, as well. In these cases, it's not a race or sexism thing; it's common sense. Celebrities (whom we might reasonably believe could have their pick of partner) who invite you back to their place probably want something other than, as you say, a game of dominoes. Of course, I totally buy into the "No" argument, but women still have to try not to get into that situation with what might be described as a certain type of guy in the first place. (Not a "black type of guy", but any man who might have some sort of reputation as a womanizer, wife-beater, playa, whatever; hell, Michael Douglas was/is a sex addict, so we could cite him as an example.) Sounds like that facilitator either had a distorted world view, or she has taken political correctness (again whether race- or gender-based) to an absurd degree, which I fear is probably not uncommon.
I buy into the "no" argument too, after you've used some common sense. I may sound like an boring old lady when I say that any man you don't know very well, who shows up at 3am to "take you out" is not looking for conversation, if you get my meaning. The example I used is just an example of common sense not being utilized. Another might be...oh, I don't know...getting into a car with a guy you just met at a club, seemingly (probably)innocent, but potentially dangerous.
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