Conventional wisdom - and my own observation - has it that women are more strongly affected by alcohol than men, not the other way around.

Of course gender equality could also take the form of raising the age limit to the level deemed acceptable for men, rather than lowering it. This would have the additional advantage of protecting, albeit temporarily, a category of women whose lowered inhibitions after alcohol consumption might get them into trouble.

"Conventional wisdom - and my own observation - has it that women are more strongly affected by alcohol than men, not the other way around."

True - if you define "strongly affected" as "drunkedness per unit consumed".

A more relevant practical measure concerning this problem, however, is "propensity to consume" and "increased probability of violent behavior per unit consumed"...

A more relevant practical measure concerning this problem, however, is "propensity to consume" and "increased probability of violent behavior per unit consumed"...


Indeed, and of couse, most men are uninhibited when it comes to sex. They would pretty much screw anything that moves.

It is the effect that alcohol has on their inhibitions towards violence that was of interest here.

As a side note, my observation is that east Asian men are less prone to violence after drinking alcohol :-)

As a side note, my observation is that east Asian men are less prone to violence after drinking alcohol :-)


... than caucasian men.

dobeln--

Just so.

It's obviously a common sense commonplace with also much research support that males are more aggressive and mature more slowly, including through their early 20s.

As well that is a time when reality, i.e. social reality starts to hit many young males big time. Likely to be similar in Sweden to the US, it's that basic. What was big in (US) high school years ain't cutting it anymore. Brains and application or some other significant talents are becoming increasingly important in attracting females -- or anyway, the fruits of those things -- money and wider (beyond the immediate age cohort) social status. Got to start to make it on your own. For those that aren't especially, bar fights are a classic.

Common sense of course. And therefor often ignored.

while it is true that men on average get more violent than women do from drinking alcohol, i am uncomtrable with the suggestion that we should have diffrent age limits for men than women. when you do that you're judging all men by the behavior of some.it is a fine line between acknowledging sex diffrences between the average male and average female and just being sexist.

I'm all in favor of sexism if it keeps people out of the emergency room. All it takes is a few bad apples in the tails of a distribution to ruin everyone's fun. Two years can make a difference -- by 22, the average male has graduated college, so the urge to act like a maniac to boost status w/ his buddies & impress girls will have decreased somewhat by then. Even a moderate shift in the mean can have important consequences in the tails.

"while it is true that men on average get more violent than women do from drinking alcohol, i am uncomtrable with the suggestion that we should have diffrent age limits for men than women."


Be advised this is not some government-imposed age limit thing. Under Swedish law, drinking alcohol is OK from 18 years on. (Although you can only buy alcohol from 20 years on in a store) The male-female age limit thing is entirely a private concern for bar owners. (Well, it was)

The maturity point: do men carry on growing in height for longer than women?

Women dont get violent simply because they know they're the weaker gender.

Asian males are less violent than African men or any other men simply because they know they are smaller in stature.

Thats why the low IQ yet violent Asians are annihilated early in life. Unlike in the western culture where even the retarded gets government welfare to live, the east asians just let them perish...

Duckett:

Is there any evidence that women don't get violent only because it doesn't pay (because they usually aren't stronger than most people around them?) For example, are there the same patterns of bullying in all-girl schools as in all-boy schools? If your model is correct, and women are less violent than men ony because they're smaller, then all-girl schools should have bullies in about the same numbers and patterns as all-boy schools. I don't think this happens, and I suspect (without proof) that there are mental differences between the sexes in terms of propensity for violence, which may be adaptations to different payoffs for being violent for boys and girls over many, many generations of boys and girls.

"Women dont get violent simply because they know they're the weaker gender."

That hardly explains the paucity of female-on-female violence. (Esp. compared to male-on-male violence)

"Asian males are less violent than African men or any other men simply because they know they are smaller in stature."

Bit harder to disentangle things here, but wouldn't that only apply to asian vs. african fights?

"Thats why the low IQ yet violent Asians are annihilated early in life. Unlike in the western culture where even the retarded gets government welfare to live, the east asians just let them perish..."

Erm, ok, if you say so...

I was taking about the norm, a.k.a. in general, a.k.a "the question why men are more violent than women".

All Girl Schools usually are religion-based schools like Catholic schools, thats another non-violent culture.. You should have used the sample from a women's prison... Why are they in prison? Is it because they have low IQ? No, its because they are violent.

It is the lowIQ violent people that gets killed or incarcerated. The high IQ violent people gets to be serial killers until they are caught. For example, the serial killer known as BTK.

The third world countries like rural China has already flushed out their low IQ violent people. I think the westerners should too, after all there are already too many people in the world and we need to raise our IQ.

thats another non-violent culture..

dude, shut the fuck up, you're a moron.

Clearly men and women tend to differ by sex in many ways. That's hardly a controversial statement.

More interestingly, this is the first example I have ever seen in which men as a class are subject to restrictions based on the fact that men are generally more violent. Usually we women are the ones who face restrictions on our behavior due to the risk of male violence (i.e. being constantly warned not to walk around alone at certain places or times, being blamed by others after a rape for being alone at the wrong place or time, having our parents fret over us more, or old rules in which women's dorms had curfews while men's dorms did not). But the fact is that men are perhaps MORE likely than women to suffer violent assaults in public (due to bar fights and such). So logically, we should be just as protective and restrictive of the men in our lives as of the women.

(That having been said, I do not support unequal treatment of men based on generalizations about their sex.)

The Happy Feminist says:


So logically, we should be just as protective and restrictive of the men in our lives as of the women.


Well, from the perspective of a mother or father who is concerned about their reproductive success, no.

That is because any female who wants to can have offspring, while not all males are equaly likely to have offspring.

Moreover, from the point of view of individual males who have to compete for access to females, just don't get in their way while they are competing.

Duckett: Troll or idiot? Sometimes it's so hard to tell.

Even leaving the issue of violence or other differences in behavior due to age and alcohol consumption aside, I think restricting entry in this way could be a winning strategy for bars. Tweaking your customer population to restrict the range of males (to be slightly more desirable) might result in attracting more women and thus ultimately more men as well. I'm taking it as a given here that on balance the 20-21 yr old men are less interesting to women than those a couple of years older. In this case the official explanation would just be a fig leaf.

"I'm taking it as a given here that on balance the 20-21 yr old men are less interesting to women than those a couple of years older. In this case the official explanation would just be a fig leaf."

True, this is a factor as well, but reducing the frequency of bar brawls is also quite valuable to the establishment owner in itself...

"dude, shut the fuck up, you're a moron."

Hear, hear!

Well, from the perspective of a mother or father who is concerned about their reproductive success, no.

I am not sure I follow you about women being more likely than men to have offspring. (That may be less true in a modern sense among my demographic of professionally ambitious women.)

But even assuming that's the case, most modern parents profess to be concerned about their offspring for their own sake, rather than for the reproductive potential.

The Happy Feminist says:


But even assuming that's the case, most modern parents profess to be concerned about their offspring for their own sake, rather than for the reproductive potential.


What people say and what people do are two different things.

How like a feminist not to understand that.

Moreover, with respect to treating males and females differently, or the same, the individual participants, ie, young males or females, will determine how they are treated, by their inherent differences in behavior.

How like a feminist not to understand that.

be nice rich. name calling only degenerates the discourse.

Flush...
That's the sound of the memory hole being purged.

"Clearly men and women tend to differ by sex in many ways. That's hardly a controversial statement. "

Two words: Larry Summers.

FWIW, Illinois once had different drinking ages for men and women, 21 and 18 respectively, as I recall. So there are other examples of this kind or rule.

Robert,

When you have age limits aren't you already judging all "man[kind] by the behavior of some". If we are willing to do that for the species as a whole then doing it on a finer scale can only be an improvement. If you are advocating that we do it on an individual level then I think it would be too costly. It's just to costly to come up with a predictive test and administer it.

I say let the market make the decision. Twenty year old males eventually become 21 so they are not being put at a competitive disadvantage to their true competitors. Males and females generally don't compete at picking up drunk sex partners, so letting in a 20 year old female doesn't put a 20 year old male at a disadvange in this regard.

What people say and what people do are two different things.

The motives people have and the evolutionary background underlying them are two different things. How like a scientist to not understand that.

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