Sibelius, who introduced the world to Finnish folk culture and mythology, was a Swedish-speaking Finn.

It would be interesting to see what % of prominent Finns today are still from the Swedish minority.

Linus Torvald of Linux fame -- that name sounds Swedish, right?

The East-West cultural division in Finland is much older than the Swedish imperial period, during which Swedish names came about. The cultural, and gene flow probably traces back to Bronze age (1500-500 BCE). See eg Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ His...land#Bronze_Age

Torvalds is a Finland-Swede.

As for prominence,

a) The richest families are heavily Swedish-speaking due to very old wealth, but they're often not Swedish in origin. There's lots of Jewish, British, German, Russian etc ancestry there, as any upper-class migrants would traditionally turn Swedish-speaking (there used to be more upper class migration between countries since before fast travel people had to move to other countries to keep an eye on their investments). The genetically more Swedish parts on the rural coast tended to be just as poor as the Finnish parts.

b) there's today no major performance difference between young Finns and Swedes, ignoring the issue that...

c) there's "affirmative action" ie. some minority quotas for Swedish-speakers and it has been so for a long time. As you'd expect, Swedes have a reputation for incompetence and shoddy work and there's all the stupid stuff that comes with AA.

Also note that affirmative action spoils mean that lots of people will officially classify themselves as "Finland-Swedes" even if they don't actually even speak Swedish fluently. That stuff is a MAJOR taboo in Finnish society and thus NO studies EVER discuss the genetics very accurately (they'll speak of "the southwest" when the Swedish population exists really only in very thin coastal strips and it would be trivial to check that - but everybody wants to avoid accidentally saying anything with an obvious connection to modern ethnicities).

The name Sibelius is Swedo-Latin -- educated Scandinavians often invented Latinate names dor themselves. Governor Sebelius of Kansas has a similarly constructed Swedish name, but one was derived from Sibbe- (or something like that) and the other from Sebbe- (or something like that.) Scandinavians had a lot of freedom to switch surnames, and humble families often had no surname.

Surname probably is only a mildly useful distinguisher, since a couple of intermarriages can mask a lot of ancestry.

Razib,

could you please elaborate what exactly in the wikipedia articke for "Swedish-speaking Finn" gave you the impression of language change? Please tell me. I browsed through the article and didn´t get the same feel. The big fuss seems to be the age of the Germanic presence in Finland. Some argue there´s a Scandinavian continuity from antique to present, some argue the Swedes in Finland are just an offshoot of the recent middle-age expansion.

The name itself "Swedish-speaking Finn" is recent political term co-incided by Finnish state bureaucrats. Some perceive it offensive, and prefer the traditional form "Finland-Swede"

Tore Modeen (Europa Ethnica, 1999)

"In Finland this question (Swedish nationality) has been subjected to much discussion. The Finnish majority tries to deny the existence of a Swedish nationality. An example of this is the fact that the statutes always use the concept ´Swedish-speaking´ instead of Swedish"

Carl O Nordling

"Less well known internationally is the 6 percent minority of ethnic Swedes in Finland. While we never hear of `Sami speaking Norwegians`, `Hebrew speaking Palestinians` etc., one often stumbles on the term "Swedish speaking Finns" to denote a certain group of ethnic Swedes. This is a way of denying the group their ethnic identity. Admittedly, something similar is practised in Turkey, where the Kurds are called `Mountain Turks` in official quarters".

Finland-Swedes are Swedes who live in a geographic area referred as Svenskfinland. They are offshoots of Swedish expansion the coastal parts of Finland during the 13 and 14th century. In parallel of events which lead to Central Swedish expansion to Northern Sweden.

Finland-Swedes have a wholly different cultural identity as opposed to Finns. They have their own literature, theathre, life-style etc. Denoting the group of Swedes in Finland as "Swedish-speaking Finns" is nothing but chauvinism and grose attempt from the majority to impose the concept of one nationality for ethnic minorities.

Jaakkeli´s speculation are ridiculious but very typical for Finns. The Finland-Swedes are the stereotyped aristocracy in Finland. 90% of Finland-Swedes are however, rural coastal dwellers in Ostrobotnia and the Southern archipelago.

In the capital Helsingfors as well as Stockholm and Gothenburg the Swedish culture has assimilated foreigners. Mostly Germans from Germany and Baltics. However, most of the them, as the two former presidents of Finland, both noble men, Mannerheim, (mothernal family von Julin) and Svinhufvud af Qvalstadt are Swedish born.

There´s about 1200 jews in Finland, where 300 are registered as Swedish-speakers, but usually these 300 hundred do not have any Finland-Swedish ethnic identity.

richard, control-f "Swedish Finns as a percentage of Finland's population."

I am not sure whether I understood, the share of Finland-Swedes has radically decreased due to the return to Sweden and assmilation.

"It is concluded that Finland-Swedes are over-represented in the total migrationprocess from Finland to Sweden. As such, the process is culturally embedded in the group´s ethnic identity, which causes migration both through the pratical minority situation in Finland and through ethnic affinity with Sweden".

Hedberg, C. 2004.The Finland-Swedissh wheel of migration. Identity, networks and integration 1976-2000.

Some argue that the retreat to Sweden is caused by the general hostility towards Swedishness in Finland

"Den dominerande finska inställningen till det svenska och överhuvudtaget allt icke finskt, kan uppfattas som stundtals närmast militant intolerant. Landet för en allmänt restriktiv invandrarpolitik. Att den så kallade äktfinska rörelsen upplever detta som positivt må vara hänt, men detta kan ha haft viss betydelse rent samhällsekonomiskt".

"Den finlandssvenska självbilden", 2008 http://www.fris.nu/arkiv2/ Uppsat...sjalvbilden.pdf

BTW did you receive my e-mail, not sure whether it reached you.

About the genetics of Finlad-Swedes, Finnish-scholars have traditionally tried to diminish any differences with either dubious sampling methods (no-ancestry verification) or by semantic gimmicks, whereas the international scholars have emphasized the genetic differences between the two ethnicities.

We have to still wait for a thorough genomowide sample for Finland-Swedes.

Here´s couple older studies from the 80´s

"Table 1 shows the distibution ADA (Adenosine deamiase) phenotypes in three samples each from Finland-Swedes (population 1, 2, 3,) and Finns (4,5,6). Brief preliminary reports of these data have been presented elsewhere. The ADA2 gene frequency is about 0.6 in the Swedish population investigated in Finland and 0.10 in the Finns"......The difference between the distribution of ADA phenotypes in the Finland-Swedes and in Finns is significant".

Adenosine deaminase polymorphism in Finland (Swedes, Finns, and Lapps), the Mari republic (Cheremisses), and Greenland (Eskimos).

"Among Alanders and Swedes on the Finnish mainland the frequency (around 20%) was comparable to Swedish values but considerably higher than among Finns".

ABH secretion polymorphism in Icelanders, Aland Islanders, Finns, Finnish Lapps, Komi and Greenland Eskimos.

A recent Y-STR study sampled 87 Finland-Swedes and contrasted them to rest of the Finland.

"The subpopulation LMO (Larsmo, Swedish-speaking) differed significantly from all the other populations".

"The geographical substructure among the Finnish males was notable when measured with the ΦST values, reaching values as high as ΦST=0.227 in the Yfiler data. This is rather extreme, given that, e.g., subpopulations Larsmo and Kymi are separated by mere 400 km, with no apparent physical dispersal barriers between them".

Jukka U. Palo et al. 2008. The effect of number of loci on geographical structuring and forensic applicability of Y-STR data in Finland.

Jaakkeli´s "affirmative action" talks can be as well thrown in waste basket. The constitution of Finland prohibits ethnic discrimination. There are Swedish-speaking quoatas for some areas such medicine and law which guarantee that Finland can live up to its constitution which on the other hand guarantees two equal national languages. Finland-Swedes do not have minority status de jure.

If one wants to enroll in a Swedish-speaking university or a Swedish-language language quota education he or she simple need to file the entrance examination in Swedish (in some cases a language test is obligatory), there´s no need to register one as Swedish-speaking.

The legal identification for Swedisness is through self-identification, not family tie, unlike with the Sami minority. Out of the those who are registered as Swedish-speakers in Finland, about 1% is registered as Swedish-speaking without parental tie to the language, 99% has the ethnic tie either through both or one parent.

The name itself "Swedish-speaking Finn" is recent political term co-incided by Finnish state bureaucrats. Some perceive it offensive, and prefer the traditional form "Finland-Swede"

I'm pretty sure the term was actually introduced by Folktinget. At least that's the term they prefer. I think "Finland-Swede" was rejected because it is perceived as ungrammatical.

There has been no attempt by the state to change the Finnish and Swedish words suomenruotsalaiset/finlandssvenskarna ("Swedes of Finland"), which have been used, I think, from the late 19th century, so the idea that the state has some agenda here sounds like so much paranoia.

If there's some people who recently have been trying to portray the Swedish-speakers as more authentically Finnish, it's the moribund Swedish People's Party (SFP). In the last elections, SFP tried this in order to gain votes from Finnish-speakers--very laughably, as everyone knows the party has ever had only one political idea, the furtherance of the social and economic status of the Swedish-speakers. The current party leadership includes everything from typical market liberals to communists like Nils Torvalds (Linus's father).

In the capital Helsingfors as well as Stockholm and Gothenburg the Swedish culture has assimilated foreigners. Mostly Germans from Germany and Baltics. However, most of the them, as the two former presidents of Finland, both noble men, Mannerheim, (mothernal family von Julin) and Svinhufvud af Qvalstadt are Swedish born.

Mannerheim's paternal line is from Germany even if they moved to Finland through Sweden. Svinhufvud spoke Finnish better than Swedish and on his mother's side he descends from Baltic Germans, although that side of the family also migrated through Sweden. Nice try, there. As I said, the aristocracy tended to intermarry a lot in the old days; in Finland it became Swedish-speaking its origin is everywhere.

JL,

JL you are correct that Folktinget is most likely the originator of the "Swedish-speaking Finn". Folktinget is organizazation under the leash of Finnish goverment as its role is even formulated in the law.

Finland-Swedish NGOs such as Finlandssvenska samling and Finland Swedisg Think Thank, Magma rely on the term Finland-Swede. Whether its grammatically correct or not, I don´t know but expressing finlandssvenskhet with notion "Swedish-speaking Finnishness" sounds lot more clumsy as opposed to Finland-Swedishness.

But as said it's kind of sad that the state affiliated Finland-Swedish interest groups have to market themselves for Finns under the conditions of low self-confidence of Finns.

Jaakkeli,

I don´t know in what kind racial purity bubble are you living.

Mannerheim's Swedish direct paternal lineage came to Sweden in the early 17th century where the family stayed and intermarried for hundred and fifty years prior to arriving Svenskfinland.

Mannerheim's moternal family von Julin is also relatively recently arrived family from Sweden to Svenskfinland (Swedish territory).

Same thing with Svinhufvud, his family arrived from Sweden too. Whether some Germans where assimilated to Swedishness in both sides of the gulf hardly plays any signficance to one's ethnic identity, as you continuously seem to imply.

But, ofcourse if its shiffers your confidence (or compensates the lack of it), you can ofcourse make up all kind of fairytales to illegitimize the Swedishness of Finland's national heroes.

The aristocracy in Finland has always been from Sweden just as in the case two presidents of Finland.

"New light on the colonisation of Nyland", 2005
http://www.ennenjanyt.net/4-04/h...-04/ haggren.pdf

"Nyland has always been characterized as an area of medieval colonisation conducted by the Swedes. Previously this colonisation has been seen as an immigration if independent peasants. As a new result a significant noble impact has been verified both in the colonisation activity itself and the establishing of parish churches as well".