Please be respectful to others with differing opinions. May God bless us all. Rosemary
So...if I understand your "poll"...three people voted for Fred Thompson. Is that correct?
And this relates to you raising money by pretending to be a Muslim group...how, exactly?
"I haven't, friends."
Of course not. All of those "Fred Thompson supporters" have absolutely nothing to do with stageleft trolls - http://www.reformislam.org/image...ages/
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http://www.reformislam.org/image...ages/
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http://www.reformislam.org/image...ages/
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"I blame you for being idiots ..."
I do. And unless you can come up with another description of people who are financing their enemies, I intend to use this one.
"A “good man” would not manufacture facts to provide basis for his arguments."
I haven't, friends. I've simply drawn the attention of as many readers as I can reach to some of the more peculiar aspects of your site, to the absurdity of your project, and to the offensive and obscene tone of your writing.
"Calling someone a moron for asking loaded questions is hardly irrational."
Actually, the best response to loaded questions is usually to answer them...especially when soliciting money without offering to explain your membership, management, or governance.
“"I blame you for being idiots ...
How mature! The others are doing bad things, so can we? ..."
Oh, dear. You were doing so well there, avoiding obvious trollishness. Bit of a slip at the end, but at least you kept the obscenity under control.
Correction: I just CAN'T keep away from (the football games) it.
Rosemary,
“Stageleft is a good man”
Possible, but “balbulican”, is obviously not. A “good man” would not manufacture facts to provide basis for his arguments.
“An example of irrationality, as I see it, is when you call someone a moron for asking questions.” Calling someone a moron for asking loaded questions is hardly irrational.
“wouldn't it still include offensive verses such as 'kill them wherever you find them'?”
No, read it: http://www.reformislam.org/koran.php
“Is this contradictary? Why, NO!”
It’s not? I would love to see how you can reconcile “human life if precious” and “respect the People of the Book” with “kill them [infidels, that include the People of the Book] wherever you find them”
“WHY DIDN'T YOU TAKE ADVANTAGE OF IT THEN, and throw the bums out?”
Because you did not turn it over to us. You turned it over to the radicals.
“How dare you blame us for being industrious!”
I don’t. I blame you for being idiots for providing financial support to radical Muslims. The United States could be fine without using ME oil, but the greed of the oil companies and stupidity of American consumers prevent this from happening.
“You may wish to look at China, Russia, and other countries such as Europe.”
How mature! The others are doing bad things, so can we? Besides, Russia’s main export IS OIL. That’s why it’s doing everything to destabilize the Middle East, to drive up oil prices.
“You have an opportunity to change your area of the word.”
Not when you’re providing financial and political support to the radicals.
Oh, you're one of those. 
It's odd. I've got my brother watching football now. I just keep away from it. I guess I'm odd in some ways. The things guys generally like to do, I generally like also. I still like the things ladies prefer, too! lol.
"Super Bowl?"
Sorry, is that some kind of hockey game I haven't heard of? 
Yikes! Who do you want in the Super Bowl? I'll give you a hint (NE sucks big wet dirty socks), I want the Giants.
Thanks, R. Doing reasonably well, except the temperature is minus 28 celsius. Can't wait for spring.
Hello Stageleft. It's nice to hear from you, too. How are you doing? I pray you are well. Have a nice day. 
As one of the topics of discussion here, permit to join in.
Rosemary said: “When someone tries to do research on your site so that they can decide whether or not to support you, your reaction was one of someone who is irrational.” And MAS replied "Could you please provide an example?"
At this link I've listed a number of such examples, with links back to the original source threads, so that readers can judge exactly how "rational" your response is. The link is http://www.stageleft.info/2008/0...against-sharia/
I respectfully urge readers not to accept either my word or that of MAS, but to see for yourselves.
MAS said:
"Most of our members live in predominantly Christian countries. Those who live in predominantly Muslim countries cannot openly support us for security reason."
I've worked with a great many non profit organizations in my life. I have never seen one that tried to raise money while refusing to release ANY information on its membership, its governance, its structure or its management. Your argument, I'm afraid is nonsense, since many of the contributors to your site are named, and others are identified through your blogger page.
Not coincidentally, several of them are prominent anti-Muslim writers and activists, such as the writers of the blogs "Atlas Shrugged" and "Israpundit". I have no beef with anyone taking a critical stance vis-a-vis Islam. I do have a beef with an "organization" that markets itself as "Muslim" for credibility, while giving every appearance of being anti-Muslim.
Rosemary said: “Is it true that if you take out the 'offensive' verses in the Koran, you are changing the Koran?” MAS replied: "We are trying to revert it back to the original."
When I asked whether this remarkable achievement was being attempted with the assistance of scholars and clerics, MAS responsed that "an" anonymous Imam was providing "some help".
Let me ask readers with an open mind to consider the following scenario. You receive a fundraising appeal from a group claiming to be Christian (but they won't confirm that in any way). They say they're rewriting the Bible because they think some of the writings don't reflect God's original revelation. When you ask what clerical or scriptural authorities they're using, they tell you that an anonymous priest is giving them some help, but mostly it's just them.
Honestly - how seriously would you take that?
Finally, regarding your characterization of me as a troll - nah. A troll is someone who disrupts threads with rage and obscenity, not with reasoned arguments.
If you choose to run another anti-Muslim website and raise money for it, that's absolutely your right. It's your not-very-well-done pretence that offends me.
Stageleft is a good man, and I will not apologize for anything he or I say to one another. I do not even remember what I was thinking at that time. I just know that I am free to say whatever comes to my heart and mind. We so rarely agree with one another, but he is nice and decent about it.
Let me see if I can answer these in the order you presented them. They are fair questions.
1. An example of irrationality, as I see it, is when you call someone a moron for asking questions.
2. That makes sense. They get thrown in prison for blogging. That is a good point.
3. and 4. If reverting back to the original (which is what I meant. Sorry about the unclarity), wouldn't it still include offensive verses such as 'kill them wherever you find them'? No, what I should have said is this. Put it into context.
There are some things in the Bible which I know applied only to that period of time and/or a particular people. Sometimes Paul would speak to the Jewish people, sometimes he would speak to the Romans, and at other times he would speak to the Church, the body of Christ. With each group of people, there is a different tone, a different message, a different application.
Is this contradictary? Why, NO! We do this all the time. When we speak to a child, we speak to them one way. When we speak to a person of authority, we speak to them in a different way. When we speak to strangers, we speak to them yet another way. And when we speak to our loved ones and family, we should speak better than we actually do but we do speak differently still. This is what I meant by putting verses into context.
There were some wars, some slavery of the Hebrews, and each was at a different time for a different purpose. One could be for disobedience to God, but He is the One vengence is owed and His alone. Maybe you do not believe this? Do Muslims believe that God cannot handle it on His own or you have an obligation to avenge Him? This is opposite from what we believe.
Um, the ME would still be a shambles if it were not for the USA finding, building ways to get the oil out of the ground, and then we turned it over to you. WHY DIDN'T YOU TAKE ADVANTAGE OF IT THEN, and throw the bums out? How dare you blame us for being industrious! Yes, we use gasoline, but so do you! (BTW, I haven't bought a car because I do not want to add to the problem. Thank you very much.) Another thing, we only use about 13% of all the oil sold. You may wish to look at China, Russia, and other countries such as Europe. But DO NOT blame us for the failure of the ME. You have an opportunity to change your area of the word. This would be a good thing, no?
The part about coming togething, I am afraid you are correct. But that couple of weeks was something that is very special to me. I know we can have this again, WITHOUT have to have another catastraphe. We just need to work at it together.
I hope you have an enjoyable evening.
Edited By Siteowner
Dear Rosemary,
“When someone tries to do research on your site so that they can decide whether or not to support you, your reaction was one of someone who is irrational.”
Could you please provide an example?
“Is it not true that there are many people supporting, but they are not Muslim countries?”
Most of our members live in predominantly Christian countries. Those who live in predominantly Muslim countries cannot openly support us for security reasons: http://muslimsagainstsharia.blog...nd-
release.html
“Is it true that if you take out the 'offensive' verses in the Koran, you are changing the Koran?”
We are trying to revert it back to the original.
“Why not just re-interpret those versus?”
How would you reinterpret “kill them [infidels] wherever you find them”?
“Can you blame us?”
Absolutely! Islamic terrorism is fueled by petrodollars flowing from the West.
“PS. I am a right-wing Neo-Con. What's wrong with that?”
Nothing.
“We can fight all day long but when we are attacked? We become one”
Yeah, maybe for a week or two.
“I AGREE WITH YOU. Is that clear enough for you?”
It is now. Was not so much after this: “Oh gosh, balbulican. ... I agree with your assessment.” - troll’s assessment: Muslims Against Sharia are not Muslims http://www.stageleft.info/2008/0...muslim-friends/
My apologies, I did not read your first new comment. Allow me to address this.
I AGREE WITH YOU. Is that clear enough for you?
I hate commies, nazis, fascists, al qaida, hamas, hizbullah, JL, and all the other offshoot groups that go around killing even their own people.
I know that the "Policically Correct" crowd is trying to get people to be so afraid as to not speak their minds. Let me introduce you to site: Stop the ACLU. This is one of the worst organizations we have here, the ACLU. That is why we must stop them. They started out with the name, "American-COMMUNISTS Legal Union"! (I'm not sure of the last word, so please don't quote me on that, okay?) Yes, I am fighting back in my own little way in my own little corner trying to help others who do not have a voice such as those in Darfur, Zimbabwe, Iran, Syria, Saudi Arabia, etc. I get it.
PS. I am a right-wing Neo-Con. What's wrong with that?
We wear it with a badge of honor, although they claim we are all these horrible things. The best way to fight back is route I have chosen. Wear it with a badge of honor, and be proud!
PS. We are NOT like the Mullahs. We are a unique group of people, us Americans. We can fight all day long but when we are attacked? We become one, and you can take that to the bank.
Have a nice day.
Dear MASH,
No, that is not what I am basing my reasoning on, but I thank you for the opportunity to have some clarity.
First, I do believe you are Muslims. I do not buy the theory that you are otherwise.
Second, what does bother me is this. When someone tries to do research on your site so that they can decide whether or not to support you, your reaction was one of someone who is irrational. Either that, or maybe uncovered something you did not want made known.
Honestly, I don't understand why you wouldn't the truth made known. Is it not true that there are many people supporting, but they are not Muslim countries? Is it true that if you take out the 'offensive' verses in the Koran, you are changing the Koran? Why not just re-interpret those versus?
This is what the Christians and Jewish people have done. As you know, we no longer stone people to death for adultery, stealing, and other sins that may have been included for a certain person's own satisfaction. I do not ascribe to anything outside of the Bible for which I can read by myself.
Americans have tried very hard not to make this a war between Muslims and any other religion, because it is not! It is a war between al Qaida and groups like them, and we just don't want to be involved in any of those. Can you blame us? That doesn't mean that I think you are one those! I'm just trying to explain.
I was one of the people that stood with Ganji for over a year (when I found out about his plight) until he was released. I was disappointed that he chose not to meet with our President, but I never regretted supporting him.
So you see, you do not know much about me. That is okay. I do not know much about you, either! lol.
We Americans have this funny thing called suspicion. We do not trust our government on most things, and we don't trust people we don't know for the simple reason that we do not them.
When they get upset when we try to get to them, that makes us suspicious...
Rosemary,
If I understand it correctly, you agree with “balbulican” that we are Neocons masquerading as Muslims based on the fact that some of our postings’ language offends you. So, if we’re not Muslims, it means that we are either Christians or Jews. And because you base your conclusion on the use of “offensive” language, the only logical conclusion is that according to you if somebody uses offensive language they must be either Christians or Jews, but they cannot be Muslims.
K.M.
Rosemary,
I meant gullible as naïve, not as dumb. Most people who were behind communist revolution in Russia had good intentions at heart, but their actions resulted in 70 years of fascist regime. The intention behind the Human Rights Commissions was also good, but now it is chilling Free Speech. It is not enough for you to have a good heart; you must also use your brain. If you think that us using language that is offensive to you qualifies us as fraud, you should look up the definition of fraud.
I have my doubts that this bunch is all that concerned about what Muhammad might think of their site, their tactics, or their language Rosemary... IMO peace and love is not what they're about.
Dear MASH,
I do not see why are calling me gullible or speaking to me the way you are. I thought you were supposed to be trying to do good for Islam? How can one believe you when you attack them the first time they disagree with the manner in which you conduct yourself?
If I claimed to be a lady, then I dressed and acted like a whore, you would have every to believe that my words meant nothing. My actions would be speaking louder than my words.
There are many ways to find out if a person is sincere or not. I only gave you opportunity to prove the others wrong, but you failed. So does this mean they are correct? That is not the point. When one is right, that doesn't make anyone wrong. It just means that person is right. The same for when someone is WRONG.
Do I believe every tom, dick, and harry that comes along and wants me to believe something?
Thank you for the good belly laugh...good day.
Rosemary,
You are a sad example of Western gullibility. CAIR tells you they are moderates and you believe them. A demagogue troll tells you we’re not Muslims and you believe that too. The truth is not that difficult to uncover. All you need to do is to look at the facts and consider the sources of the opinions you are taking into account.
Oh gosh, balbulican. You sure do know how to make a lady swell up with tears of gladness. I agree with your assessment.
Brendan, Yes, He does care. Do you not remember Thou shalt not take the LORD's, your God, name in vain? Think about that one...How are you? It's good to hear from you.
Jesus cares about bad language? That's news to me.
Rosemary, I am writing to thank you for your update. Let me say in all sincerity that I am both impressed and moved by your integrity, and I really appreciate your response. I don’t think the political spectrum matters as much as the decency spectrum, and we’re on the same side on that one.
Thank you.
Hi, Rosemary. I note your masthead says the following:
"Please be respectful to others with differing opinions."
With that in mind, you may wish to consider the following two links before endorsing Muslims Against Sharia.
This link is a collection of the remarks they have made to people who disagree with them on various sites, all of which are sourced, back to the site where they made the comment. Please be advised, they are, regrettable, quite obscene.
http://www.stageleft.info/2008/0...against-sharia/
This link is an investigation of who "Muslims Against Sharia" actually are.
http://www.stageleft.info/2008/0...muslim-friends/
I respectfully suggest you review this material, and draw your own conclusion. This does not sound like a group rewriting the Koran in good faith - to me, anyway.
Dear MASH,
You are welcome. Anyone who is seeking God and chooses to do good is someone who needs to be heard. Even though we have diffently religions for which we both strongly believe, that should not keep us from respecting one another. You have a wonderful day!
Dear David,
I've been reading the Old Testament now, and I see some things that I am sure grateful I was not alive during that time. You know that I know Jesus Christ is the Truth, the Light and the Way. That no one comes unto the Father except through Him.
I also believe that many people are seeking Him. No matter what 'religion' they may be involved with. When they find the emptiness and the cruelty and loneliness within their religion, and they see the satisfaction and hope and love and sacrifice in another religion, another people, it is my hope that they will start to question their own faith and mine.
In that way, if I am kind to them, they may inquire as to the source of my Joy. That is why I allow people to seek Him at their own pace and own time, because I trust the Holy Spirit to be working. We should not condemn them, for they are also children of God. Would you condemn a child for using his diaper instead of the toilet? (I was trying to use something nuetral. lol)
You know you are my friend, and I care about you. I want you to feel free to say whatever you want, as well. I just wanted to explain how I think, and by doing so, give you something to think about. If you see something wrong with my thinking, PLEASE let me know.
MAS, I've read the Koran. Your efforts to expurgate all the sleazy parts and "rehabilitate" the prohpet of slavery, mass murder, lies, treachery and sexual perversion simply deny historical fact and your own religion.
Why don't you deveolp a little honesty? Simply cutting out huge masses of violent, racist, vicious "scripture" from the Koran does nothing but admit that Islam is a religion of hate and violence. The only way to "reform" Islam is to extirpate it. Any reformation that seeks to make it other than what Mohammed, the Butcher of Medina, made it is to make it... not Islam at all.
Simple fact, MAS, nothing mnore and nothing less. Again, if you do as your website asserts you have done--expurgate all the hate from Islam's "holy" writings, you no longer have Islam and are no longer following the words and deeds of your "prophet".
So, are you sincere? If so, then you will admit openly that you are leaving Islam for... something else.
Debbie/Rosemary,
Thank you very much for your support! For the record, MASH is an international group, but we do have Canadian members.
David,
Please learn something about Islam before providing your next scholarly opinion and embarrassing yourself.
"Muslims Against Sharia"--that's kind of like, "Christians Against The Beatitudes" isn't it? Once you start cutting core beliefs out of a religion, can you still really call yourself an adherent of that religion?
Well, of course, you can, you just have to be disingenuous about it, kinda like "Christian Scientists" or others who aren't Christian at all but simply go about calling themselves such.
SHaria is simply a semi-codification (I say "semi" because it all depends on which imam is applying it) of Mohammed's--the Butcher of Medina's--bloodthirsty cultic teachings: it's quintessential Islam. If they are going to be against Sharia, then they have to denounce the author of its precepts, Mohammed, the Butcher of Medina, and since they aren't going to do that, then regardless what they say, they are living deception, whether it's decieving "unbelievers" or themselves. They simply cannot be "against sharia" and NOT be against core teachings of Mohammed; it's impossible. If they are going to deny core teachings of their "prophet" then they are undercutting the very foundation of Islam, the religion they espouse to adhere to.
Doesn't work for me. And it won't work, in the long run, for them either.
I like Muslims Against Sharia, but I'm afraid they are fighting a very uphill battle. God Bless Them.
What do you think of them? It's good to hear from you too. I really don't mean to stay away so long, but I've just been swamped. I've been forcing myself to make the time to visit my friends, and it feels so much better.
Hi Rosemary it was good to hear from you...I have been checking out MAS
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