In short MacPhail says we firmly embrace "Pimp" Culture
No, "in short" she says the word has a perfectly innocuous meaning. See this article, especially the section at the end "Other Uses."
First....there is a difference when using the word "pimp" as a NOUN or as a VERB. A "pimp" as a person (or noun), has a different meaning than when it is used as a verb as in "Pimp my library cart".
Personally I think this is much ado about nothing. Reminds me of the time when I was 17 and my mother took away a t-shirt I had purchased that said: "Disco Sucks". She thought the word "sucks" had other meanings that were not appropriate for a teenager.
Lighten up, this is nothing to worry about. "Pimp" is being used most often as a verb these days and not associated with prostitution. The TV show "Pimp My Ride" has added to this as becoming part of our vocabulary.
Wikki Pimp.
80% of what comes up is Pimp as in managing women often frocibly to sell their bodies as sexual objects.
It is a short free fall from the pimp culture to the violence in our society right now.
And your libbie librarians are apparently endorsing it.
This is ridiculous.
Scott, I looked at that befor eyou posted it, how you can look over all of that and see no issue mistifies.
"The man doth protest too much, methinks."
Quite right. Fred is protesting to much.
So, Fred. You do recognize that there are many words with multiple meanings, yes? Just asking. Are you free to choose the meaning that's most offensive to you when someone else uses those words? Sure. Should anyone pay any attention to you if you do that? I can't see any reason to.
Yes, there are words with multiple meanings, and language changes all the time. However, this particular word is still majorily used in our culture for nefarious purposes by nefarious people, and to embrace that via a library is pretty ugly.
We think according to our vocabulary. Obviously vocabulary has taken a fast down-hill slide when a word like that is used in talking to teens.
And I still HATE the word "sucks" no matter how many meanings it has. It's an ugly term used in any way except in the way it was originally intended to be used. I don't consider it benign or even very expressive.
But what the hey, people who can't express themselves tend to get into trouble and are continually frustrated. Neither "pimp" nor "sucks" is going to be of much help to them.
PS: and McPhail's letter is the "typical" mealy-mouthed response which is given by people who have no values about language or much of anything else.
Jesus, How many car bombs in Baghdad today and you're worried about the colloquial use of the word "pimp"?
Remember the "Church Lady" on Saturday Night Live? You're kinda sounding like that, kiddo.
It's a play on the title of the MTV show.....not particularly witty or anything but an attempt.
My question is this: What ideas do YOU have to get teenagers into the library? You can't just quack and howl all the time without being willing to step up with a reasonable alternative to the thing that offends you.
Or at least it'd be nice if you tried.
I see, so now embracing the pimp culture is part of the liberal line.
How far removed is stop snitching, gangs, guns violence? Not very.
The pimp culture has contributed to 4 shootings in Racine over the last four weekends.
Go ahead my liberal friends, keep making excuses, society gets worse, more people die, it is your fault and somehow you will blame people like me in the end for not stoppin you from your own destructive behavior.
So Rose, you would have taken my "Disco Sucks" t-shirt away too?? How mean! (By the way, this occured back in the 70's, not recently). My vocabulary has changed a little since my days as a teenager.
As for the library, yes it should be about knowledge and culture, even knowledge and culture we don't approve of or agree with. I'm quite sure you can find books with much more explicit language than "sucks" or "pimps" in the library. If we all took a group visit to the library, we could all find at least one book we are extremely opposed to or offensive, and it would be different from the next person's.
They don't need such ideas. As long as they have a clearly delineated sense of who isn't responsible (themselves), everything's cool. I mean "fine."
OK folks... instead of doing a "My dictionary is better than your dictionary" contest regarding the word pimp... how about you look up two other words instead:
Context and Connotation.
Now relax. Pimping a library cart won't lead to the vandals sacking Rome any time soon.
Fred, you need to spend more time down in the hood with me! The shootings were gang related, not prostitution. I think you are confusing the action of pimping or blinging with "gangsta" life style. I've said it before but maybe I need to say it again, Pimp as the NOUN or PERSON has a different meaning than when used as a VERB or ACTION WORD! For example, to put this into more geek-eez, if you are a "hacker" you are maliciously attacking code, whereas if you are applying a "hack" it is an informal fix to a known software problem.
How about we not bring these questions into our taxpayer funded library system.
But none of those interpretations allow one to get a up a good head of steam against the soiling of our precious culture!!!!1one
WHOA!
This is the coolest thing, ever!
I can turn my libbie librarian OUT! I can finally recover all the tax dollars that have been confiscated from me over the years! Ah sweet reparations, line up the librarians. Give 'em thigh highs. I'll turn 'em all out!
Yes, but who decides what's inferior? You? The majority? Anybody who cares enough to make a stink?
I'm sure that there are a lot of people who would consider Bach and Wagner to be "inferior" to 2pac and NWA.
The problem with your assertion, JIJAWM, is that there is no objective way to determine what products of a culture are inferior. It usually is just a means for racism to express itself.
For example, lots of people consider rap culture to be "inferior" because of it's rampant violence. In that case, what about Last of the Mohicans? Sex- what about Lady Chatterly?
What about people who feel the same way about mainstream culture? Personally, I find Desperate Housewives and The OC to be just as depraved as any rap song. Does that mean that mainstream American culture is "inferior"? I think it does.
Finally - Someone honest!
Wrong, djheru, but honest.
It is about Cultural Relativism - All of you definition hounds, google that one.
Yes, some cultures ARE superior. I can make a value judgement that 2Pac is an inferior product of a depraved culture, while Beethoven, Mingus, or Coltrane are not.
This has been positioned by the library as a term that has come to mean something else. You might note that the word "bitch" has come to mean "woman" or even more generically, "person" to teens in some segments of society.
How about the near ubiquitous usage of the term "mother____ing" as a general purpose adjective in some circles? Perhaps the contest could be called the "Pimp my Mother____ing Cart, Bitch!" contest. Or would that be offensive to you? I wonder why, since the phrase would be translated as "Decorate my Cart" among many young people.
Of course, the answer is that all of them are offensive. This is a start down a slippery slope of relativism, and "Pimp muh Mutha____ Cart" merely its logical conclusion. A library is not just a building, it is an institution for transmitting culture.
We ought to be careful what culture we transmit.
Pimp, thug, gang whatever.
That culture is leading to violence on our streets every day.
That culture is inferior, though that is the first time I have used that word.
What go with Pipms, Hos..
Didnt we just bounce Imus on a Ho comment.
Get serious.
That culture of violence, illegality and lack of respect for authority do NOT belong in our taxpayer supported institutions.
As they're "pimping" those carts, will they be allowed to write the terms "ho" or maybe "n****r" too, or will someone get fired?
Edited By Siteowner
"I can make a value judgement that 2Pac is an inferior product of a depraved culture, while Beethoven, Mingus, or Coltrane are not."
Sure, you can make that claim, others can make the opposite claim. What objective criteria do we use to determine who is right?
some cultures ARE superior.
I agree with this. Not everything is relative.
Fred, you're not even engaging any of the points made by those who disagree with you, you're just repeating yourself and insisting that you're right. Not much fun.
I think this is pretty simple:
1. The word has several meanings in popular usage today. One is potentially offensive, another is quite innocuous.
2. The library is deliberately trying to be edgy and cool in order to engage young people - a noble goal, IMO.
3. People like Fred are just looking for reasons to rail against ... whatever it is that they rail against.
What objective criteria do we use to determine who is right?
Oh how about that pimp culture and gangs and people shooting each other about every day around here.
Open your freaking eyes.
How about you actually do something productive about those problems, Fred, instead of whining about a totally innocent (if pathetically lame) promotional endeavor by the library that will undoubtedly go entirely unnoticed by the poor influential children you are so terribly worried about? What a waste of energy.
Good plan, I'll take my unarmed butt down and ask the nice gang guys to stop shooting each other and play nicer.
OK, does this mean none of us should be taking any more trips to Las Vegas? I think the guys handing out "those" cards right on the strip could be considered pimps, and there is definitely prostitution going on. I'm pretty sure that their clientelle are not all thugs or gangsters.
I am not trying to condone prostitution, but I do not believe prostitution and gangs go hand-in-hand. Two completely different "businesses" so to speak.
We could end all this controversy once and for all by of course throwing out the "pimping of the library cart" idea, and follow it up with a huge book burning consisting of all the bad/controversial books the library holds. I know I have a copy of Animal Farm and Lady Chatterly's Lover around here somewhere to start the flames.
To my knowledge Sandy those people handing out the cards on the strip are not paid by the taxpayers.
Big difference.
I wish I owned a bar downtown. I would put up a big banner outside that said "Party With The Ho's This Friday Night" and wait for the long line of supportive people to come in and tell me how nice it was to engage new people and "recognize their unique contributions in a positive way".
"To my knowledge Sandy those people handing out the cards on the strip are not paid by the taxpayers."
Harry Reid is working on correcting that problem as we speak.
I don't know what Las Vegas has to do with anything. All I know is you can choose to simply ignore the fact that the word "pimp" does in fact have a meaning beyond that one concerning the business of prostitution, or you can realize that it does and that you'd be wiser to find another fight in your admirable but laughably misguided attempt to clean up popular culture.
Clearly for Fred the word only has one meaning: the one that gives him an excuse to rail against - of all people - librarians. (Presumably because they are educated and liberal and often government employees.)
I had written a long response and I must have timed out because I was not able to post it.
I mentioned Las Vegas in a previous post because of its entire culture of women and prostitution. (Don't get me wrong I was to Vegas recently and loved it) But the point has been made that prostitution equals gang activity and inferiority, so I'd assume this means we should stay far removed from this culture and that would include places like Vegas. Or are there some types of pimps and prostitutes that are less inferior than others and therefore more acceptable? It's a fair question considering the conversation on this blog.
I just think this topic has gotten way overblown. I am sure we can find books on the library shelves, paid for by tax dollars, that deal with sex and prostitution. But does this mean they need to be removed from the library?
I should also point out to Bitter Ed there is a popular bar downtown Racine called the Ivanhoe but everyone refers to it as "The Ho". The owner in fact just won an award, the best young businessman of the year, or something along that line. I have a bottle opener from there that says "Come in the Ho" along the side.
As for the guys handing out those cards on the strip, have you noticed the mess they leave behind? I would guess they keep the Las Vegas Pubic works department busy which costs tax dollars...
Well I'm weary of this conversation and off to do something I'm sure MUST be considered culturally inferior but I'm doing it anyway. I am going to pour myself a glass of 2-Buck-Chuck wine from Trader Joe's and watch tonite's episode of American Idol I taped and I'm going to enjoy it. Life is good.....see you on the blogs later!
"Go ahead my liberal friends, keep making excuses, society gets worse, more people die, it is your fault and somehow you will blame people like me in the end for not stoppin you from your own destructive behavior."
Please Fred, if you keep this up you'll hurt yourself.
You can't seriously believe this.
What bothers me about this is that there seems to be a group - much like the Miller Lite Man Law table - that gets to make decisions about word use and contexts, and I'm not part of those discussions.
So now it is OK to "pimp" a library cart. Someone has decided this and it is deemed OK by enough people that we have a new Man Law. Great. What if I walk downtown later and see an African American gentlemen wearing a powder blue leisure suit and fedora and sing out "hi there pimp". Would the fair usage of "pimp" now be trumped by context and I am accused of assault and a hate crime? OK, outrageous example.
What if I were to promote this cart pimping project to children to get them to read this summer. What if a child asks what "pimp" means? Do I dress it up and say that it means to make the cart look "cool" or "nice"? Do I say that it is a stupid name but please participate anyway (leaving the question to someone else)? Do I say that this colloquialism based on a racy pop-culture sound byte taken from a form of human trafficking is really meant to "be inclusive"?
Someone commented earlier about this being a tempest in a teapot since there are far more important things - like war, famine and cosmic holocaust - to worry about. I counter with the question "what really affects you on a day-to-day basis?" I say that moving targets of language use, language misuse, fear and retribution can be the basis for more than a discussion of library carts - people can lose jobs and other marginally important things.
What if a child asks what "pimp" means? Do I dress it up and say that it means to make the cart look "cool" or "nice"?
Yes, because that's what it means. if the same child asked you what "bitch" means after having visited a dog breeder, what would you say? That it's a derogatory term for women (and increasingly men) you don't like? C'mon.
No Scott, pimp is the word that refers to the keeper of - often -frightened prostitutes. "Bitch" refers to the female dog that is bred and this concept could easily be explained to a child. The unacceptable slang term was an afterthought - and this could easily be explained to a child as well, until the group to which I do not hold membership decides otherwise.
ed, the distinction you're making doesn't really make any sense.
In what could be a congressional first, U.S. Rep. Ric Keller of Orlando quoted early hip-hop star LL Cool J on the House floor to prove he was a longstanding supporter of a police funding measure.
“Don’t call it a comeback, I’ve been here for years,” said the conservative Republican lawmaker, citing the classic hit “Mama Said Knock You Out” from the early 1990s album of the same name.
http://
blogs.orlandosentinel.com...rd_on_whet.html
An interesting unreported news story turned into an editorial. I guess you could say that Kathleen Parker pimped this story.
I love the references to "this is their culture". Does anyone really believe this? Does anyone have to tolerate this?
http://www.chicagotribune.com/ne...ack=1&
cset=true
So where did this verb, "pimp" come from? Anyone? Beuller?
"Pimp" is a derivation of, "to pimp out", an expression used in the late 1970s in reference to the gaudy clothing choices most notably favored by pimps, but also by certain "Glitterati" elements of the urban social scene of that time. Another similar phenomenon was referring to Cadillac Eldorado convertibles as "pimpmobiles".
So you see fred, the English language is constantly evolving, and you are not. Perhaps you would be more comfortable in Victorian times, where such extremes of semantic sensibilities as the following occurred: The chair could not be referred to as, "a seat" for fear of conjuring up an image of that part of the anatomy that occupied it.
While you are busy trying not to think of a white elephant, allow me to quote another enlightened soul on the subject of bastions:
"Open the gate!" - Baron Von Munchausen
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