Good summary, Pat. This shows what many of us in the reality based community have been saying for a while now, about engaging the creationists on their level.
Too many scientists 1) are not versed in public speaking; 2) think just having the facts on their side is enough; 3) don't understand creationist talking points; 4) aren't familiar with the specific person whom they are debating; 5) don't understand the concept of framing to your audience (part of item 1); etc.
Randy Olsen ("Flock of Dodos"), Mooney and Nisbet all keep pointing this out, and while I don't agree with much of what they have to say, I do agree in principle with much of their thoughts about the need for the scientific community to improve communication skills.
That's the key to oral debates.
I think the best way to frame one of these debates right off the bat, and take the wind out of the creationist's proverbial sails is to state flatly that scientific disagreements are not settled in debates. They are argued in writing, and 'settled' by doing research, and presenting that research to their peers for review. Then state that the only reason creationists like oral debates is because it makes it more of a popularity contest. Ask for thier research and references right off the bat, before they even get to make any of thier points.
In other words, knock them back on their heels and don't let up. If they are going to have these debates, they need to learn how to do it.
Just my opinion.
Cheers.
I think Behe has leaked a hint about the super top-secret research being conducted by the Discover Institute--The Power of Poof! Once top scientists like Behe and Dembski learn how to Poof, not only will they conquer drug-resistant bacteria, but they will solve the energy crisis (if it really exists), whip inflation, and find Osama bin Laden.
Once top scientists like Behe and Dembski learn how to Poof, not only will they conquer drug-resistant bacteria, but they will solve the energy crisis (if it really exists), whip inflation, and find Osama bin Laden.
But wait! There's more!
The DI's patented "Poof" will also let you lose weight and whiten your teeth while you sleep!
Order now and you'll also get a free set of Ginsu knives and a Salad Shooter at no extra charge!
(Personally, I'm holding out for the Salad Shooter...)
Let's not forget how pathetic Behe's talk at KU last fall was.
The best part was when he essentially admitted that his entire notion of Irreducible Complexity was a rigged game in which, to win, evolution proponents must explain how evolution can produce any system he names.... without evolution.
The mere fact that there was a debate shows science has lost. When complete pile of crap is considered at the same level as all scientific knowledge and put on equal footing in a debate….science has lost.
Cubiclegrrl, F.Y.I. Their salad shooter is a piece of crap too.
Forget this framing nonsense.
Keep telling them what ignoramuses and morons they are, and presenting them in the harshest light possible, like Liz "mousie" Craig calls for as the media rep of Kansas Citizens for "Science".
That will show 'em!
Okay, yb: You're a moron. And and idiot. With all the social skills of a rabid pit bull in heat to boot. Happy now? How 'bout this? Scratch a creationist and you'll find a flat earther at heart.
Because when it's all said and done, you and your kind are developmentally stunted. If you believed your Mom when she said that you're special, that's great. But you overlooked the fact that everyone else's Mom was right about that too. The idea that we are all equal under God/Allah/Yahweh is a lie--lipstick on an extremely ugly pig. Until religion is taken out of the public sphere and back into the private, democracy will always be at risk.
And before you get all huffy, note that I said "religion", not "values". If more people (religious and non-) took responsiblity for thinking about and living by their values, it would be a much better world indeed.
I'm afraid that ignorant people will continue to have many more babies than educated people.
Sure. Why do you think they're against sex ed, birth control and abortion? They're going to out-populate the smart people and take over. Oh, wait. Maye they already have.
Maybe someone should've stood up and told Behe that they have a mechanism for ID - and given him a black top hat, cape, and wand.
Um...hold the phone here a sec.
Is Liz Craig "Mousie Cat" as in evolving in ks?
Pardon me, F**K the KIDs and YB - you are about to see exactly how pissed off I can become. MC has every right to his/her/its privacy. You weasels don't.
Back the F off MC or I'll drop a friendly subpoena on RSR for your IP addresses and then I'll pay to have you worthless sumbitches come talk in a deposition - I consider your statements threatening and stalking and neither of your worthless butts wants to take on a person who uses their real name.
Cowards. Criminals. Bastards.
I will come after you - with every legal tool appropriate - and I'll quit when the Court tells me to or you and your issue have all died of old age -whichever comes first.
You all could be convicted of Mopery in the First Degree, with intent to Gawk. I don't think you want to know what that charge is or the price you would pay.
Wait - what's that sound - yes - the Christian God hears you lying - it's hell for you both.
You are such a scary man, George.
Hey, I'll let you in on a little secret. Did you know that my real name has surfaced on occassion (without my consent) and that someone actually found a picture of me in a newspaper and posted it in a forum I was involved in? There is absolutely no doubt that the culprit(s) were from KCFS.
I was not thrilled about it, but I didn't threaten to sue anyone.
You need to relax, or you're going to make yourself sick. So much pent up anger...
Don't worry, Forthekids,... A look over George's website explains everything: His post is a parodist troll. (Not a very funny one, though. Needs more frothing.)
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