The long lines were mostly in democrat run precincts. Like the democrat designed butteerfly ballot, republicans are blamed, perhaps correctly, for allowing democrats authority.
As a dammed furriner, I find it intensley amusing and sad at the same time that both parties effectively stand at opposite ends of the playground and hurl kindergarten abuse at each other. Neither party holds the moral high ground on this. In the UK you can suggest your opposite number has sexual congress with sheep in the House of Commons with impunity and yet there is still more real debate and discussion going on than in the hallowed halls of the Senate.
What a crazy way to run a country. It doesn't qualify as democracy when neither will leave the trenches to talk to the other. Democracy requires dialogue. The whole fiasco was one of the motivations behind the UPC - we wanted to show the morons of both sides that it didn't have to be done their way.
Regards, C
OK, C ...
So when we engage in "dialogue" and get shit on like we did in the Senate recently, that's a good thing for democracy?
I think not.
Sparkle, if I had a quarter for every post out there calling attention to some loony thing Weird Howard says or does, my kids could inherit some SERIOUS wealth!
RWR
I agree partially with you Cernig. Which is why I look forward to posting on UPC, but you can't let a ridiculous thing like the that pass. He is the CHAIRMAN of the Democratic party after all, not just some pundit.
RWR, you proved cernig's point when you outed yourself as a "bitter-ender" on the Senate judicial compromise.
As for Howard Dean, he needs to do less talking and more doing what he said he was going to do, and make sure the party stays on the path to reorganization.
We should all take a moment to be thankful for Howard.
Cernig, you're not a damned furriner. Scots fall under the "cousins across the pond" exemption. I got the same benefit when I lived in the UK.
Perhaps you've explained this before, but I'm curious as to how your interest in US politics came about. Might I ask you to enlighten me?
The "Both sides are equally bad" argument doesn't fly. Howard Dean is the chairman of the DNC, other dem leaders like Pelosi and Reid make obnoxious statements, which are not matched by equally obnoxious statements by Republican leaders.
One cannot make an equivilance argument by pointing to bloggers, pundits or rank and file Republicans. The very fact that such equivilance arguements are made tells me that even Dems acknowledge their own leaders' bad behavior. They will never shape up unless held to account, defending the indefensible won't help
Before you say it. Yes, on occassion a Republican leader says something rude. However they are excoriated for it, and its clearly not a pattern of behavior like that you see from Dean, Pelosi, Reid, et all.
Almost makes me wish for Daschle back..... Nah
Erik, I was certainly NOT a "bitter-ender." In fact I defended McCain and pointed out his arguments for why the compromise would work in his favor.
I think the Brits have a real interest in our politics as it effects them so much. They are our number one ally and we never even asked them to be.
Yet we seem not to care too much about their thoughts on some of the international issues.
It does seem though that at their last election they wanted Mr Blair's party - not Mr Blair
one could vote absentee and avoid long lines.
And I always assumed that people who didn't work (typically the person courted by Dems) would find it easiest to stand in line for long hours.
It takes a lot of work to effectively swindle people out of their money, like Dean thinks Repbulicans do. Thus, they would not have time to stand in line.
As a libertarian who is very disappointed with the Republican Congress in its domestic spending policies, I can make this obversation -- the rhetoric from the Dems is way over the top compared to similar leaders in the Rep. party. In fact, it isn't even close, and the pressure for saying stupid things is much less than when the tables are turned (see, e.g., Trent Lott's loss of leadership position saying something nice about a retiring old timer).
Richard in NY,
It's simple. I live in Texas with my American wife and family. Although I stubbornly hang on to my UK citizenship, that gives me a vested interest in what goes on here.
Regards, C
Hi All,
I should've known better than to try to convince a partisan crowd that they are as bad as the other guys. I would get as much success at DU.
Still, how many of you stood up and had a go at Cornyn when he suggested it was understandable if folks went out and attacked "liberal" judges?
How many in the GOP upper halls just tried to say he wasn't saying what he was saying? Lots. How many support DeLay when it's become obvious to a blind goat on a mountain in Utter Pradesh that he's a sleazebag?
BTW, did you notice Joe Biden and others are having a go at Dean's remarks or did that news fit under "do not report" on your side of the echo chamber?
Funny thing - as an independent beholden to neither party, I see each as equally corrupt and equally at fault. And I'm more lefty than the Dems!
Regards
C
I think I am HIGHLY OFFENDED at being compared to DU! *crosses arms and frowns deeply*
I know John Cornyn personally and although I am not familiar witht he quote you provided, I KNOW that he would NEVER advocate any kind of violence. Nope. Never.
Cernig, I believe you are starting to get caught up in the left's imaginary looniness that you propose to hate on both sides.
Careful, the dark side can be very powerful over here....
Cernig
I heard the Biden clip.
Dean is still DNC chair.
Your point?
SENATOR JOHN CORNYN: "I don't know if there is a cause-and-effect
connection but we have seen some recent episodes of courthouse violence
in this country. Certainly nothing new, but we seem to have run through
a spate of courthouse violence recently that's been on the news and I
wonder whether there may be some connection between the perception in
some quarters on some occasions where judges are making political
decisions yet are unaccountable to the public, that it builds up and
builds up and builds up to the point where some people engage in -
engage in violence." [Senate Floor, 4/4/05]
I know that RWS. I said "RWR" (Rightwingrocker), not "RWS". Next time I will his full handle to avoid confusion though.
Cornyn supported the segregationist Wallace in the 1968 election. Wallace infamously said:
"In the name of the greatest people that have ever trod this earth, I draw the line in the dust and toss the gauntlet before the feet of tyranny . . . and I say . . . segregation today . . . segregation tomorrow . . . segregation forever."
If you know Cornyn maybe you could ask him if he still endorses that view? Do You?
Regards, C
Here's Ann Althouses take on what Cornyn said:
http://althouse.blogspot.com/200...nst-
judges.html
DeLay and Cornyn, like many others, signal to the public to think that the judges are simply out of control and the cases are inexplicable as the serious work of deeply thoughtful persons steeped in the legal tradition. It wouldn't be wise just to assume that judges are unerring oracles of law, but to leap to the opposite conclusion and decide they are frauds is even more foolish. And for a public figure even to hint at violence as a solution is completely unacceptable.
Regards, C
Oh, and Glenn Reynolds:
http://instapundit.com/archives/...ives/
022238.php
If you need proof that some Republicans are just as dumb as some Democrats, this is it. Now if there are further attacks on judges, Cornyn -- and the Republicans -- will be blamed. What's more, to some degree they'll deserve it.
To quote Ari Fleischer's underappreciated remarks, people need to be careful what they say. The notion -- popular in some circles on the right -- that dishonest or result-oriented behavior by some judges justifies an all-out war against the judiciary, or even the idea of an independent judiciary, is un-conservative, and for that matter un-American.
Regards, C
Finally, Jonah Goldberg at NRO:
http://www.nationalreview.com/
th...hive.asp#059980
I haven't seen the comments in their full context yet, but assuming Josh Marshall and Glenn Reynolds are being fair (and I have no reason to suspect they're not), it seems to me the outrage is well-deserved. This is almost exactly the same logic the left used to justify or explain away inner city riots. It seems to me there's no substantial difference. The judge in Atlanta was not murdered because he had an expansive view of the penumbra to the Bill of Rights. Neither was the murder of that judge's family in Chicago attributable to judicial activism. What other violence is Cornyn referring to? I leave some room for the possibility that Cornyn was being stupid rather than sinister. But this strikes me as an indefensible statement.
Regards, C
Darleen,
Cornyn is stil a Seanator for the GOP.
Your point?
Regards, C
Pooh to this Democracy requires dialogue crap. Democracy is about enlightened self-interest. Why do you think we have all these pork aden spending bills? This isn't a new development, people. Our politicians are just exhibiting the same coarseness towards each other that we already have in daily life... have you seen somebody flip you the bird in the last 30 days while driving? Done some flipping thereof?
In any case if you (or your favorite) politician can't take the heat...get out of the kitchen. Deans pronouncements serve only to help Conservatives...so in that respect I don't care.
Rock on, Deano....
Cernig, of course he doesn't support that now. (If he ever did, not sure I believe that one)Good God! The Dems have Robert Bryd!!!
If I am reading the quote right he was explaining why there might be some violence, certainly not advocating it.
Big difference.
I certainly see no reference that violence is a solution.
I could say that the reason abortionists were shot was because the killing of the unborn they do remains legal and crazy people get sick of it and act out.
That doesn't suggest that I ADVOCATE the shootings or violence. I certainly do NOT.
I just don't see what was so wrong with what he said. He was merely pointing out a possibility.
"The insurgency is in it's last throes." - Dick Cheney 5/31/05
And yet at the same time, our boys and girls won't be home until 2009?
At least Deans comments don't reflect on all of America. Cheney honestly believes that if he says it, someone somewhere will make it so. Dean's comments are usually mean spirited. Cheney's reflect a level of phychosis.
Cernig
Surely you grasp the difference between an elected official and an appointed one?
And certainly, Dean's latest is but a long list of hate-filled diatribes against the Dreaded Republican [cue the screams of horses]
Cernig,
Senators don't have to resign until the lose the next election. Heads of the party can be booted immediately.
Also, the quote discussed the possible connection between the acts and the violence. This is funny. I received an e-mail from a very democratic liberal attorney friend of mine who works for EEOC suggesting that the rhetoric about liberal judges may be to blame for the violence. Now, I read that and, though I disagreed (both recent judicial violent acts had specific self interest behind them), I didn't think he was (1) approving of the violence (2) advocating it or (3) glad about it. Quite the contrary.
So I just don't get it. I'm with RWS on this one.
And FWIW, I don't advocate segregation and am young enough that I never have.
C:
Spare me any pretense of objectivity, its clearly not true and by making such a claim you have already lost he arguement.
I would like to see some evidence that DeLay is a "sleazebag", Unsubstantiated allegations are not convincing. Delay's paperwork is impeccable and his bills all paid. Lets hear some specific charges.
Cornyn made no threats against judges and the quote above proves this. I agree with Goldberg as quoted above, which also doesn't make the case that he suggested "it was understandable if folks went out and attacked "liberal" judges?" You have got nothing here. I suggest you stop digging the hole deeper
Wallace was a democrat. Guilt by association a logical fallacy, and in this case, an association cannot even be made. Gratuitous statements can be dismissed.
Hey, I was just reporting the opinions of three noted rightwing pundits 
What was that about killing the messenger? LOL
Regards, C
Nonsense. You made allegations about Delay and Cornyn and cited pundits to support your position. However, the citations did not in fact support the allegation.
Cernig
"Democracy requires dialogue".
No. It requires codified limits on the power of government and the right to vote in free elections. Nobody has to talk about diddley squat.
The Cornyn argument is pretty weak. You'll need more than a soundbite to demonstrate he's calling for the lynching of judges, which is your end point. Good luck with that.
The Delay assertion is weaker. If by "he's a sleaze" you mean taking trips paid by lobbyists is sleazy, then by association you mean Democrats as well. Actually, by dollar amount and frequency, you'd be telling me Nancy Pelosi is five times the sleazebag that Tom is.
If you mean "getting indicted by Ronnie Earle", pfft.
I don't care for any representative getting the travel perks, but there are more 'offenders' on the other side of the aisle. Actually, worse, cause they didn't report theirs until they started going after Delay, who filed his reports.
I'm fine with "I don't like the SOB". Peace to you and all. If you want to try to use "he broke the rules", then be consistent, and show how he in fact did.
You haven't done that.
Darlene...
"What big knockers!"
"Frau Blucher!"
Cernig's examples are as weak as they can be. There's no comparison in the rhetoric out of the democrat leaders as compared to the republicans. What the democrats can count on is that the media will play up everything the republicans say as much as possible, while giving the democrats a pass.
Howard Dean is basicially appointed as a SPOKESPERSON for the democrats and he's an absolute embarrassment to the party. I love it. Are they that void of leadership and dignity and class? One must assume so. Slim pickins indeed, over there at the left.
Go Howie go. The GOP's #1 WMD.
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