RWS
I grew up with very close Jewish friends and there is some Jewish branches of my extended family. I saw many of those films long ago. My eldest daughter was in Holland after graduating high school and she said visiting the house that hid Anne Frank in Amsterdam was moving beyond words.
If you haven't read it yet, the seminal study of the era is Rise and Fall of the Third Reich. And I extend you an open invitation that if you find yourself in So. Cal, I'll take you to the Holocaust Museum in the Fairfax District of Los Angeles. (and we can go to Canter's Deli for lunch!)
Take those instances, extend them to the majority of the population of an invaded country, and you have effective nonviolent action.
Thanks Darleen! And if you ever find yourself in Houston let me know too!
This is not the story of the sudden appearance of horrible monsters from another planet, or of just one or 100 or 1,000 evil people.
None of Hitler's monstrous acts would have been possible without either the active support and participation, or the passive acquiescence, of millions of "good Germans."
Hitler didn't need to violently overthrow the established order. He achieved power through "legitimate" means. He was elected. He used existing laws.
Hitler appealed to people's sense of patriotism and moral superiority. He dehumanized and demonized Jews, gays, Gypsies, the physically and mentally handicapped - anyone who wasn't Aryan, anyone who was different.
Dirk, we agree?
I remember reading a story about a Church that was near the railroad tracks where they would transport the Jews to the camps. The author of the story said that when the trains came by you could hear the people in them crying out. He said they would just sing the hymns louder.
To me, that was as chilling as the men of Hitler.
But as the books I read proved, some good people did speak out. Some did risk their lives and even lose their lives for the sake of decency and humanity.
And let us never forget the soldiers who fought across Europe.
True heros.
Sparkle asks "Dirk, we agree?"
I dunno. I was saying that it's easy to point to a boogeyman, but much harder to look around, or in the mirror.
As for your anecdote about the church - the Vatican Secretary of State worked very hard to negotiate a treaty (known as a concordat) with the Nazis.
He finally succeeded in securing the catholic church's properties in Germany while pledging in return to refrain from all political activities.
That Vatican Secretary of State later became Pope Pius XII.
There's a very good book about that period of time called "Hitler's Pope." If you're at all interested in what the Catholic Church did to cover themselves in WWII, I highly recommend it.
"Take those instances, extend them to the majority of the population of an invaded country, and you have effective nonviolent action."
Right, Glimmer. Get back to me when you actually see it in action. Face facts: it won't happen. If it was common enough, the Nazis would simply raize an entire town.
The fact that it DIDN'T happen then, and it didn't happen under Stalin, kinda shows that people are afraid of the guys with the guns.
Interestingly too, many of the early invasions were presented to the German people as attacks "because they are planning to attack us", or a variation on that of "if we don't take them over, then the UK will". The latter is is what happened in Denmark and in Norway. This is how Hitler got people to support the war.
(Before anyone misunderstands, I'm *not* saying Iraq was the same thing in most other respects. I'm just talking about historical fact here.)
Thanks for clarifying that Erik, I wouldn't want you to join your friends in the "everyone we disagree with is just like Hitler" debate.
Erik - if the US was invading Canada or Mexico, the Hitler lebensraum analogy would fly a lot better (not that you were saying that, but some have). Even the most cynical leftist has to (or should) realize that even the most ardent neo-con doesn't think that the US could actually get away with "keeping" Iraq or Afghanistan in today's world. Let's face it, everyone uses Hitler / WW II analogies to make their arguments. The former are generally overwrought and hysterical, the latter can be useful, since WWII is really the defining event of the last 100 years - not only did it redraw the map of Europe for 50 years it led to, or accelerated, everything from decolonization to the space program to the women's rights.
WW II was also a great example of how an attempt to dodge a small war or several small wars led to a cataclysmicly large war. This is, of course, a very tricky lesson - because if you choose to fight the small war, it is very difficult to tell if you acually did avoid a big war, or just needlessly fought a small war. This is, I think, the essence of the debate on Iraq (at least between folks of good will on both sides of the debate - some others, like George Galloway, WANT the western world to lose.
The first part I agree with you on holdfast. There is too much hysteria about Iraq, (not that I am at all sure yet that it will end well in the long run). Global communication almost precludes a real "blitzkrieg" these days anyway.
On the second part, I don't know that they want a "loss" as you put it.
Erik, would "They don't want the US to benefit from a win" work?
I'm halfway through the Victor Klemperer diaries ("I Shall Bear Witness, 1933-1941", and "To The Bitter End, 1942-1945), and I highly recommend them. Klemperer was a German Jew who chronicled Hitler's rise to power and the war. Klemperer was a Jew who survived, primarily because he converted before WWI and was married to a Protestant.
Central to Hitler's rise to dominance was the absolute demonization of anything non-Aryan. Active, virulent racism. I get tired of hearing Bush talk about the "religion of peace", but he can hardly be charged with active, virulent racism, can he?
When you hear unhinged leftists smearing their opponents with the "Nazism" canard, you can rest assured that they don't have a damn clue what Nazis were or what they did.
By way of example (a simple one, I know), Hitler wasn't elected to anything Dirk. He was appointed Chancellor.
Honey, you need to rent and watch Shoah.
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