Well, my last comment was a response to one of the "hateful" comments", but I happen to have saved it. So here it is again.
(BTW, RWS, how come the pink is back? I hate pink.)
(But that is not intended as a "hateful" remark.) :>)
I'd feel more comfortable putting in this $.02 worth if RWS would have left out the "black" in her topic, but that's what she gave us to work with.
Well, see, liberals never hesitate to point out that poverty is disproportionately a problem for blacks. But mindless liberals just can't stand it if conservatives adress this issue head on, and suggest that the problem is a little more complex than shouting RACISM RACISM RACISM, and proposing to throw more money at the victims.
RWS (and Bill Cosby) propose an alternative point of view. The persistent poverty among some black communities is a consequence of a dysfunctional culture, which in turn is a consequence of Hubert Humphrey liberalism and poverty pimps like Jesse Jackson. The most promising solution, Cosby says, is to focus on education.
In California, the Chinese were once the most reviled, low-status ethnic group around. Now they are the most affluent ethnic group in the state.
I remember reading somewhere (I think it was in George Gilder's Wealth and Poverty) that the average income of Jamaican-born blacks in America is higher than that of whites.
Cuz they're motivated, I guess. But all you brain-dead liberals can do is yell RACISM RACISM RACISM.
Including at RWS, and I don't think she deserves it. Frankly, I would bet anything that she's less of a racist than you.
Interesting how you "lose" comments when your feet are to the fire.
Michael you said much of what I said just a few minutes ago in a post. But now it's gone.
Hey RWS can you put it back? It's okay if you can't. Yipeee! We can put the real (yellow) smiley faces in our posts again!!!
Micheal, I think my point went so far over your head that it might be in orbit.
The point I intended, and am sorry I didn't clarify it, is that poverty is not limited to black only and shouldn't be addressed in that manor, it's all inclusive. My point was that by adding "black" to the title the topic became very constrained.
I'm sorry I confused you or anyone else.
miran,
my feet weren't to the fire at all. They are nice and cool.
I will repeat what I said. Do you know how bitter and hateful you sound?
Whenever you guys are losing a debate you resort to namecalling like a jealous jr high girl.
It's pathetic.
Grow up and come back when you can debate like an adult.
I'm sorry Jill, I can't.
I wish I could so everyone could see how hateful and dishonest some of the commenters on the left are.
yes mirandarama, you did a good job. Go back to Kos and report.
begone.
RWS: As I recall, before you censored everyone, I was noting how you say I called you names, which I didn't, and then you proceeded to call me names.
One thing you mentioned in your post, RWS, that people aren't rising to the occasion, reminded me of something. There's an old saying in the combat units that "You don't rise to the occasion, You default to your level of training."
I think this is what is seen here. The cycle of poverty can Not be broken when there is no other example set.
As a child growing up in the central valley of California, I had more than a few friends who had somebody in the family who didn't speak english. Usually it was the mother (the mother did't normally work outside the home). In those days it was Portuguese. Kids learned english at school, dads learned it at work, and moms yakked at other moms at the Portuguese Hall and so were somewhat behind.
All those kids had real families though. Sometimes HUGE families. Did I mention these folks were dirt poor? None of those folks had any intention of staying that way. The ones i've kept up with are not in any cycle of poverty now. But, they had something the impoverished black community does not, Family.
It's such a tremendous mountain for the black community to overcome I think it would be easy to feel dispair. And that completes the cycle.
It may be that it's gone too far now and they'll never pull out. Generations of poverty and despair. Perhaps this violent uprooting will free some of them.
mirand, well that is easy to say when your post is gone. but everyone who saw it knows how hateful and filled with name calling it was. You can pretend all you want.
If you want to comment here. You cannot insult me. Period. I have given you leeway bacause you are new. But no more. Just be a decent polite human being. Address the issues and don't sink to personal insults. It's not that hard.
It's amazing to me that liberals still see the solution to every problem is to throw more money at it. How many years have we been doing this, only to make matters worse? They still don't know anything about human nature.
I once saw a type of documentary comparing the attitudes and success rates of American born blacks versus blacks who risked everything to come to this country from their own impoverished countries (usually islands in the carribean). The American born blacks they interviewed all had the same attitude. The "we are oppressed" the "white man keeps us down" the "racism keeps us down" the "what is the govt going to do for us?" attitude. You know, the things the poverty pimps like Jesse Jackson etc. have been pounding into their brains for decades. So they naturally blamed everyone but themselves and took no initiative to better their lives. And guess what? They were all poor and helpless.
However when they interviewed blacks from other countries who came here it was a whole different story. They too came from poverty, but they risked everything to come here and were very much happy with America and all it's opportunities. And they were succeeding. The difference in attitude and demeanor was astounding. Because they didn't have the Jesse Jacksons telling them since birth that they couldn't succeed because of who they were. So they didn't let anything stop them.
And why do so many asians come over here from poverty stricken, war torn countries with NOTHING, not even speaking English and end up doing well? Because they 1) value hard work, 2)value education 3) believe in the family remaining intact. Remember, they got here with nothing and even had the language barrier.
All the money in the world thrown at education will not make one single black person value it any more. If it's not important to you, if you are told you are doomed from birth, then it will be a waste.
The formula for success is the same for everyone. But welfare has destroyed the black family. And no one can deny that it hasn't. And with the break up of the family, everything suffers. But liberals don't want to admit this. They are spending too much time commissioning studies that try to tell us they hey! dads don't even really matter! (and other such nonsense). Again, they seem to know nothing about human nature.
I once saw a bumper sticker that was so true. It reminds me of the liberals and their love of big government.
"If it ain't broke, the government will keep fixing it until it is."
Ain't that the sad sad truth?! Of course it is. And only the blind will deny it.
Well, Sparkles, we're all left to depend on your interpretation of what went on before you so conveniently disposed of this thread. I was pointing out the no-so-latent racism in your post comments, and you were responding with how no-so-rich you are and blah blah blah. I never called you a name (review the past thread if you saved it). You, on the other hand, called me a junior-high ill-informed something-or-other. I am being as decent and polite as is humanly possible when addressing the stupendously racist and classist comments you've posted. If you don't want contradicting opinion, go the way of LGS and Freepers.com or whatever those other right-wing blogs are and just admit you're banning opposing viewpoints. Quit putting yourself up as the queen-bee magnanimous white matron of the universe and own up to your assertions. Decide what you want: Free and uncensored dissent, or kneejerk agreement with the comments you put forth. If it's the former, allow free speech. If it's the latter, go ahead and let the banning begin. But at least be upfront about it.
I didn't censor. I change to haloscan. They delete the posts. I would kept them.
Miran,
Just calling me a racist is enough to get you banned. Which you did several times. But I'm giving you another chance. Don't blow it.
Sparkles: Blow me a kiss, because I know that I am the racist idiot. There I admitted it.
IT was the scotch and valium talking. Sometimes the voices in my head get so loud.
Edited By Siteowner
isn't it funny how the committed ravers think calling someone a racist works?
Yeah Dave, in what is surely my last post, if Sparky preserves it, which she won't: It doesn't work. racists seldom recognize it in their own selves. Look at me. I'm an idiot and a racist and I won't admit it even to myself.
Edited By Siteowner
miran, call me crazy, but I think the blow me comment is the one that gets the foul call.
you're a small-minded little critter, aren't ya?
Micheal, I think my point went so far over your head that it might be in orbit.
The point I intended, and am sorry I didn't clarify it, is that poverty is not limited to black only and shouldn't be addressed in that manor, it's all inclusive. My point was that by adding "black" to the title the topic became very constrained.
OK, your point was not over my head. Your point is just stupid.
The topic was "constrained" because RWS was addressing the specific problem of black poverty. Poverty is disproportionately a black problem, as you liberals constantly point out. So, RWS addressed the problem of why poverty is endemic in areas like the black slums of New Orleans. And she concludes, as do most thoughtful people, that the problem goes much deeper than blaming affluent white bitches like her for racism.
So, you're right that poverty is not limited to blacks. You're wrong in suggesting that the long-standing intergenerational persistance of black poverty is not a unique and challenging problem. And you're a total frigging idiot if you think you're capable of saying anything over my head.
BTW. you meant to say "manner," not "manor."
Sorry, RWS, for the intemperate nature of my remarks. I'm just feeling pissed off tonight -- I don't know why.
Go ahead and ban me, you spoiled white affluent Southern racist.
Please, please, please do not ban Mirandarama! Please, oh please.
in what is surely my last post
Try again, mirandalandadingdong. I'm guessing RWS will let you keep posting so Dave and I can keep having fun bitch-slapping you.
RWS, if you have made a contrary decision, please reconsider. Dave and I are on patrol.
Michael's on patrol. I'm goin to bed.
miranda, you're an idiot.
there
Sorry guys. She is beyond civil discourse.
I decided instead of deleting her rude comments, I would just....you know.. edit them to what she really wanted to say.
Heh.
Rebuilding Gulf States is just another way for the wealthy to get wealthier
President has proposed a $200 Billon dollar rebuilding effort for Gulf States affected by Hurricane Katrina without any kind of real responsibility to victims or how we are going to pay for these efforts.
Think about it! The government just failed and willing admitted this failure and now we are going to support a $200 Billon dollar government rebuilding effort. If various individuals at work fail and mess up a department do they suddenly overnight get their act together? At the end the day the poor will still end up poor and the wealthy will end up wealthier. Big business in the local areas as well as business tied to government rebuilding efforts are what is the driving force behind these kinds of decisions and not the victims.
The rebuilding of the Gulf region will take years. These people need help, jobs, and a future today not in years. It would seem logical to just help them with being transported in other parts of the U.S. wherever they wish. They can then get on with their lives immediately.
The other thing to note is that much of the area was below sea level should not have been allowed to exist in the first place. Remember the analogy if we build our home with straw then it will blow away if we build our home with block it will weather the storms.
Now if we go and rebuild this region the same thing can happen all over again. Even if we rebuild it to withstand 200 MPH winds and 24 feet of water. What happens when the First 250 MPH hurricane is one day discovered and a storm surge of say 40 feet returns one day? Seems like if we know this area has and is a problem then we should steer clear of rebuilding efforts.
Seems to me that before we go marching down the path of speaking for the hurricane victims we should ask the victims themselves what they would like to do? Instead we are making presumptions that there will be people to fill these rebuilt areas when it is finally done.
Now the question might be why are we speaking for them without asking the victims what they want? The answer is simple it’s once again about focusing on big business making money off the whole deal. Sorry but I am not interested in personally funding a place that supports the cause of getting drunk and gambling life savings away. The people that are truly the victims here have only been enslaved in the jobs that support these kinds of efforts. Give them a chance by letting then migrate out!
This is a slam in the face to the victims. We have over 1 Million people homeless right now. Would you or anyone else want to live this way over the next few years? Allowing the people to spread throughout different parts of the U.S. is a sure way to allow these people not to be discriminated against. Keeping then confined to a region is the opposite!
I say take a survey and ask the victims themselves what option they would prefer. Option 1 be transplanted to other par
I get the impression that many will not return. I think two thirds here in Houston said they planned to stay here.
Probably a good thing. Those who have something good to return to will - others might get a fresh start on life. Race and poverty aside, sometimes if you're stuck in a rut you just need a good kick in the butt (see, I can behave) to get you into motion. Can't get a much bigger kick than a Cat 5 Hurricane.
Hopefully a little of that Texas cowboy spirit will rub off on the new arrivals. And with a little luck, those returning will soon have some new government - Governor Honore anyone?
If Gary would ask what the "victims" want, many would say, "Just give me the MONEY"!
So, we have one million victims, give each one their share of the billions of dollars that congress has allocated. Oh, add in the millions of dollars raised by private sources and the other agencys.
So now you have a million (suddenly rich) used to be poor people with lots of money.
I can guarantee that within a few years, very few, most will either be dead or broke and on welfare again.
And I don't care what color they are.
Most poor that have been poor for generations just would not be able to handle having a pot of money given them.
In of course my humble opinion.
Papa Ray
West Texas
USA
btw, I love pink, pink is my favorite color. It is also my Sweet GrandDaughters favorite color.
The rebuilding of the Gulf region will take years. These people need help, jobs, and a future today not in years. It would seem logical to just help them with being transported in other parts of the U.S. wherever they wish. They can then get on with their lives immediately.
Shouldn't the affected peopled help in the rebuilding of their communities, rich or poor? Everyone acroos the US is being asked to care about this region, and yet the "victims" should get a pass? Disasters happen everywhere in the world. This is an opportunity for everyone to make something wonderful, but it might be a bit uncomfortable in the process. Kind of like pregnancy.
It seems that no matter what the govt does it will never be enough or right for the people on the left. They are so blinded by their hatred of Bush that no policy will ever change that.
Bush is doing more than any President has done to help these victims. He is promising to rebuild and what does the left do? they start in on which companies are being paid to rebuild. It must be a haliburton conspiracy!!!!
It's a tired old song.
Wait.... RWS and others here accuse the "liberals" as seeing the way to end black poverty in America by throwing money at them.
This is an incorrect assessment of the situation, but do you people even track current events? It almost seems that you go to Instapundit and Red State to figure out what the hot topic of the day is.
The reason you were suppose to bring this up was becuase the left was supposed to attack Bush for simply "throwing money" at the victims of Hurricane Katrina without showing any real compassion.
The attack never happened, but you defense of the adminstration still remains the hot topic for discussion?
As a former sparring partner, you should know that you need to change your moves when an expected attack never materializes.
People are poor because THEY choose to be poor. I pay tons of taxes each year because of poor judgement from other people. Multiple kids with multiple dads that we pay for. Black or white, you need to be held responsible for your own family. work hard and you will succed. The government should not pay for slackers
Am I nuts?
Did george just make a speech aknowledging the role race and poverty had in the crisis?
j andrew,
I don't even read instapundit or Redstate, so there goes your theory.
I just read all the comments above this time. You lot are nuts. I mean really, everyone on both sides.
I am the one who is supposed to be on drugs.
You're nuts.
is anyone on this thread black?
Here is one of the few nice things I'll say about Jimmy Carter.
A month or so ago I had the opportunity to help build a Habitat for Humanity house. Actually it was a group of seven houses. On the day I participated, we did framing. It was hot, dusty, hard work, and I enjoyed every minute of it. (A side benefit was that I learned a lot about framing a house.) If I did it every day, I would certainly want to get paid, but it was a great experience.
One particularly interesting feature of this program was that the people who were to receive these houses ALSO HAD TO PARTICIPATE IN THE BUILD. It wasn't just a handout, they had to work for it. And it wasn't just once in a while, it was every weekend.
I think this is a good model for rebuilding NO.
I am black, dave bones. I come here to try to understand how the right wing thinks, if you can call it that.
Of course it's hard for me what with my low IQ and everything.
dave,
I was mistaken. Bush did say that. I missed it.
Don't talk about shoes you have never worn.
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