Our girls can go too Sparkle. Many do. Many have died. How about some heroic reports from Marie on the front line? When do you put your treasure where your mouth is?
The vast majority are boys on the front line, but I certainly admire the women there too. That is implied in the "our soldiers."
Well, as I have said before. My son's two best friends, who practically lived at our house for the last 5 yrs (because of bad family life) are both in the military. One is training with the Navy and the other in the Army. I love them like they were my own and I suppose you could say they are my treasures and I am proud of them.
I can't make that decision for my son, he is an adult, but if he had chosen to fight I would have supported him 100% and been proud.
What about your daughter? Are there no patriots among you?
Sparkle - do not even engage that type of juvenile nonsense. You know that is some rhetorical trick the left likes to trot out to make the other libs look at them and say, "Look how Du Monde p3wned sparkle".
What is that old saying ? Never wrestle with a pig. You will both be covered in shit, but the pig will like it. About the same thing with the "what about your children", "chickenhawk", "bedwetters" and their ilk.
Apparently, those on the left do not understand that you cannot compel your children to join the military.
JD,
I have to disagree with your last statement. Many children of military families are often compelled to join simply because "my dad was a Marine and so was my Grandpa."
When families openly speak of the many positives about the military, their children often listen.
Do you get any impression that sparkle does anything less than speak glowingly of our men and women in uniform in front of her children ? Do you get any impression that she would be anything other than flat out proud if her children made that choice ?
By the way, the scenarios you described, which are not altogether uncommon, fall woefully short of compelling another adult to enlist in the service of their country.
Talk is cheap! Put your young lives where your mouth is, or shut up. "The proof of the pudding is in the tasting."
It falls woefully short, but it's not althogether uncommon? Whatever you say.
And yes, Sparkle always speaks glowingly of the military. Never said she didn't.
I already finished my time in service, and currently my two younger brothers are in theatre. Would that qualify in your book ?
According to the left's scale applied to Sheehan, Kerry, Murtha, et al. mere service exempts them from criticism of their positions. Service is weilded as a shield, rather than a badge of honor.
And you know what, sh*t for brains, that makes my opinion no more and no less valuable than anybody else's, let's say sparkle's, for example.
Sorry, sparkle, but for whatever reason, that kind of juvenile mindless BS really gets to me. I should follow my own advise.
citizen : Sure, that scenario may be common, but that does not come anywhere near "compelling" another adult to enter the service. Encourage, sure. Every known generation of my family encouraged us boys to join the service, and we did. However, we did so as adults, with our eyes wide open, and did it by our own choice, of our own volition.
Du Monde's remarks are insulting and insipid. ITs beneath you to dignify them with a response, sparkle.
Everyone joins the military as an adult, JD.
So what is your point then? You said you disagreed that you cannot compel your children to join the military.
Well, sh*it-for-brains, my brother and I finished our time in service too. And, sh*t-for-brains, your opinion is no more valuable that ours. So, why, if your opinion is legitimate, do you need to criticise my brains and that of my brother who also honorably served and now is in a veteran"s cemetery? I am tempted to make unkind remarks about your brains, but I won't because our boys had brains.
Big Dog - I will take your advise, since I do not seem to do such a good job of following my own.
However, I will start following your advise after I say this. Du Monde, your juvenile, insulting and insipid comments towards sparkle and her children serve no purpose whatsoever. Were you an honorable man, you would apologize for explicitly questioning the patriotism of sparkle and her family.
Where exactly did I criticize your brother?!?!? Or where did I say that my opinion was any more important than yours?
NO "S" WORD guys!
My other children are too young. So it still could happen. Which would be fine with me.
Sorry :-(
Children often decide they're going to be soldiers by mere observation in childhood of watching a father or brother serving. It's a very compelling way for kids to "grow into" the military.
And if that parent or sibling dies while in the service, it often beomes a mission to serve. Yes, they sign the contract as an adult, but the decision has often been made at a much younger age.
I doubt anyone believes your claims anymore, Du Monde.
Let someone talk enough, they reveal their charactor.
This falls under the heading "he who does not itch does not scratch." I have personally seen this phenomenon in public meetings where this question is asked: "If you are such a patriot, why haven't you volunteered?" Often, some crew-cutted young fellow in khaki pants who has been promoting war comes down with a case of but, but, but when that question is asked. Now, the more I hear "insulting," "juvenile," insipid" the more the more I see "all hat, no cows." I took the chance, my brother took the chance, but you are unwilling to take it for your Country. As of today they are 7000 people short. Why don't you stop being "insulting," "juvenile," and "insipid and DO YOUR DUTY! Otherwise, spare me the name calling, (and, the cheap opinions).
Already did my time. Why don't you call on those on the left to do theirs? Or do you believe that only those that voted for President Bush should enlist. I enlisted under President Clinton, and frankly, one's duty is defined by the individual, not by you. Calling on sparkle to compel her children to enlist shows a fundamental disconnect with the concept of our all volunteer service.
I was drafted under President Johnson. I know my time was different than yours, but I served with an army full of Democrats...very few Republicans and many Democrats. Amazingly the rich boys got deferments while the working boys went to war. From what I can see, it is a lot the same now, except the working boys do it now because there is not a better job them. Then, it was because they were not given a choice. Since it is now a matter of choice, why don't patriots like Sparkle's kids enlist?
Du Monde, really it is time to stop watching Micahel Moore mockumentaries.
"except the working boys do it now because there is not a better job them"
Gotta question whether or not you live in the same United States of America as the rest of us. I have no doubt that there are people that enlist as a means to escape a troubled situation, but from my personal experience, people enlisted because they felt it was something that they should do, at a personal level.
I guess patriotism has become the "opiate of the masses." The problem is: these soldiers are my sons. Do you think they are so different than we were? I'll accept your view. Will you accept my doubts about things being fundamentally different than they have always been?
Sure, your doubts seemed to originate from a time much different than today. It is certainly reasonable that people that were drafted into the service had a much different view of their service as opposed to those that made a voluntary choice to do so.
"The proof of the pudding is in the tasting."
Unrelated, but I can just say how refreshing it is to see someone actually use the full quote of this line properly?
Kudos!
Yeah, it's good to see progress in the GWOT. God bless our troops.
Kind'a hard to tell on this comment thread, though. The misery index is high. I'm glad I'm not in such miserable spirits as the left is.
It doesn't look like the military's sacrifice is appreciated by the left either ... but I'm sure they'll can find some craven political opportunity to take advantage of.
It also shows when we have good news to report, the Left has to quickly change the subject to something about which gender is not focused on, and when RWS comments, ask the stupid questions like "So, have YOUR kids enlisted?" What does that have to do with this huge victory in hitting a prime target?? That was quite the quick subject change in the first comment.
Anything to not have to focus on or keep the topic on something good Bush or America & the military has done on the GWOT. Nope. Nothing to see here. Move along.
I know this is easy to say, but honestly if I were young and with no childrnen, I would, without a doubt, volunteer to go to Iraq. Some things are just worth fighting for and this is one of them.
I'm not sure I am made of the stuff you need for battle, but I would do whatever else was needed. Translation, nursing, whatever.
You'd have to ask my son why he chose college instead, but it wasn't for lack of admiration for our military in this home.
Once my kids are grown I plan on volunteering full time for the Red Cross, so who knows? I may get there yet.
Interesting discussion (argument?)
I have three GrandSons, and one very special, sweet, outstanding, headstrong, very pretty GrandDaughter. (sorry, no favoritism there, is there?)
At this date, one GS is going in the Air Force (he is a natural born teck and will get a good education in fixing aircraft, which will make him a VERY good living in the civilian world).
The second GS is looking at the Navy, but also at the Army, he is undecided at this time.( I also told him to check out the US Coast Guard).
The third GS is a little young (9 y/o) but is a computer whiz and an avid gamer. I told him one time that the world is at his feet and that no matter what he wants to do, if he makes up his mind and works hard enough, he will be able to do it.
Thats the same thing I am telling my Sweet Sarah, my favorite and most delightful GrandDaugter, who will turn 5 y/o in March.
She of course already is taking over the running of my life and is working on taking over the world.
Why, do you think that I would have two GSs that want to go into the Military?
Both said it had a lot to do with the letter that I wrote to their parents (my grown kids) back right after the murders of our Americans and other countries people on Sept. 11, 2001.
I have shared it ( back then) and thought that I might share it again. Please overlook any spelling or other errors (I never completed HS) and try and understand the stress I was under at that time. No one wants to invision the future as it looked at that time (or even now, for sure) for their kids and grandkids.
Please think about what you want for your children and grandchildren. Do we want to fight the wars now...
Or let them have to fight them?
_________________________
Here is the letter I wrote my kids back then.
Sept. 20, 2001
Dear xxxx and xxxxx,
Last week as I was reading and sometimes looking up to see what was on the TV, I witnessed the start of the most awful and fearful period of our lives unfold. I feel that I should try and talk to you both about it more. I will, but I also decided to write this letter because sometimes things are important enough to put down on paper.
We have been given the lives we lead now by a previous generation. They are often called the
"Greatest American Generation". This is because with the help of our allies, they literally saved the world from domination and repression by two misguided and evil empires; Germany and Japan, which were determined to rule the world and destroy us (and the rest of the free world) as a country and a culture.
We now face another threat even more terrible to us and to our way of life.
Now, we and your children, (my grandchildren) are now involved in and exposed to this terrible conflict between ourselves and a people that want us to be destroyed so that their concept of their religion and distorted beliefs can rule the (our) world.
There is no reasoning with them. They do not care to know of us
Cont..
or to understand or tolerate our beliefs or religion. We are the product of the "Great Satan" which is what they call the United States of America and which they intend to destroy. They believe that theirs is the one and only true religion and that all other religions must be subverted and destroyed.
They hide behind (and call upon), their corrupted idea of their religion, in their crusade (Holy War) to destroy us and our way of life. To do this, they have distorted and defiled their religion, which in the more moderate form, teach compassion. They prey upon the poor, uneducated and dissatisfied of their lands and others and use these needs and despair to foster their misguided and evil hatred of anyone or anything different than themselves or their beliefs. They teach their children to hate us and want our destruction.
Unfortunately, sometimes in the past, the United States foreign policy has done many things to reinforce this bad image of us. We have helped the wrong people, we have not helped those we should have, when we should have, and generally did not try and understand or help resolve problems soon enough. We appeared to have no love or compassion to many people and we seemed to take sides without reason. They were right a lot of the time. But most of their problems are caused by their culture and by their inability to adapt to changing times.
How can we as a family handle this? How can we protect our children and ourselves?
We must stand together of course, helping and advising and nurturing our sense of family and talking to our children (as I am now to you). We must try to reassure them that we can and will protect and defend ourselves and them. That we will not be hurt or overcome by these misguided and destructive people that have vowed to destroy us and our way of life.
We must also be sure that they do not feel that they or you are in any kind of immediate danger. Our children must still feel that we are all still safe. The truth and sometimes mis-stated facts on TV and what they hear at school must be discussed and any rumors or over-reactions must be dealt with. The truth will be bad enough, so be sure to reassure them often by talking to them and showing them you have faith and confidence by the way you act.
This war will be unlike the others in the history books because some of it will be fought and won (or lost) without press or public knowledge. Additional terrorist attacks and the deaths of our soldiers and more civilians will sometimes be the only visible actions. Our military will out of necessity have to operate mostly in secret, or at least in secret until after operations are completed. It is going to be a war that will last and last and not seem ever to be won. It will become a way of life. But we must not allow it to rule our lives with fear and uncertainty.
You must be sure that you do not believe all you see or read in the media, because, as we were years ago, in the conflict in V
You must be sure that you do not believe all you see or read in the media, because, as we were years ago, in the conflict in Viet Nam, the media shades and shapes events.
Our lives (but, not all Americans) and our homeland have been left out of the struggles of this distorted religious conflict up to now. But now we have been defiled and attacked here in our county. I was not surprised. I knew it was coming, I just didn't know when, where or what form of terrorism it would be. This attack has shown all of us that they are deadly serious and want to destroy us as a culture.
What else can we do? We can continue to work very hard, enjoy life as much as we can and to help our country by not giving into these people and letting them destroy our confidence and our faith in our country, our way of life and our family's pursuit of happiness. We can also give of our time and our energies. Kindness, compassion and cooperation in our community and patience with the coming restrictive security measures are ways we can help. We must show support for our Government and for our Military.
Sadly, we don't have the money or the influence to make great gifts to help our county. We are not in the position now to give military service or government service. But your children may be in a few years. Is that something we would want? No maybe not, but it may be necessary and it certainly is something that previous generations have done to insure our happiness and our survival. So is it too much to expect that our children will do the same?
I wish I were forty years younger, I wish I were rich, I wish I could do more to insure that my children and grandchildren would not have to face the bad and evil in this world. But I can do no more than tell you both to be honest and truthful to each other and your children and instill in them a sense of confidence in themselves and their country and in our American way of life.
Texans have always been at the front of the line when it came time to protect and serve their country. We and our children should be no different.
We have seen examples in the last week of the courage and resolve of the people in New York and in Washington. Be assured that they are not exceptions, but just great examples of all Americans. We (Americans) can work harder, produce more, and fight harder and better than any other nation in this world.
We will continue to prosper and to protect our freedoms. We will not fear, we may suffer and mourn our dead but we will persevere and continue to be the greatest nation on this earth. You must pass these ideals on to your children. They must grow up with confidence but knowing the dangers of this world.
We also as a family need to encourage our representives to pay more attention to the plight of other peoples in other lands. To help them more, and to help change their governments so that poverty, despair and dis-satisfaction will not foster terrorism and hate. These governme
These governments may not want to change, but we must foster
or force change upon them.
We as a family, as a country, can and will, even in these dark times, by our attitude and hard work provide
support and love for our children, ourselves, our community and our country.
All my Love,
Dad (PaPa Ray)
That was beautiful Papa Ray. Thanks for sharing it. Sorry my stupid haloscan won't post a long comment.
What were these terrorists doing in Pakistan? I thought they were all drawn to the much more heavily civilian populated Iraq by our foriegn policy objectives?
Good to see we got a few of them, and that our troops are still on the hunt in Pakistan/Afghanistan. I hear some scary stuff about the political situation there currently.
This type of operation seems to me what we should have been doing every day since October of 2001.
And why, exactly do you think that we have not been doing so ?
Well according to Def. Secretary Rumsfield we haven't been doing it out of respect for Pakistan's soveriegnty.
According to Scotty McClellan, Pakistan is our ally in the Global War on Terror, and we have been working with them (essentially we have been asking them permission to do it for a while).
Since about late November, our stance on the issue of Pakistan's soveriegnty has apparently changed.
This probably has more to do with the fact that Osama and his men can not hide in the caves during winter (it's just too cold), so they come down to the villages, and the fact that the Pakistani Army has probably stopped patrolling the area (due to climate conditions) as vigorously, than it does with politics, but that doesn't mean I won't be on here saying that the reason we get Osama in the next few months isn't due to the upcoming elections. (We could have got him last year, but it was an off-year)
Pardon me Jandrew, but I think the experts know a little more than we do, regarding why we go into some countries, etc. We have no idea what all these people know (that we don't). Until you show me your security clearance, I'll just trust the experts. Armchair generals really get on my nerves.
Papa Ray I really agree with you, and I really liked the part where you said either we fight this war now, or our children will. So true.
I don't have security clearance. I also don't think that the majority of information upon which our government bases it's decisions is classified. It is available if you are willing to look for it.
I don't know a whole lot about the intelligence community, but I do know this. People who become "experts" in certain areas don't start with security clearance, and then just download the information into their brains, they work for years gathering the available information and requesting that other sources forward information to them. They build their knowledge to the point where they become experts.
Rumsfield and McClellan are not "experts" in the Pakistani/Afghan border by any stretch of the imagination. The things they are briefed on are most often provided by University Professors who are "experts" on the region with some CIA satelite imagry and analysis thrown in to corroberate.
How do you think our government gets this information? Do you think they have millions of sources all of which are classified?
Well, you're right about one thing, we have a lot less classified information now than we used to, thanks to the NYT.
Actually, we have much more classified information now than we have ever had in the history of our nation. When the Dem's complain about this being the "most secretive" administration in the history of the U.S. it is percisely becuase the Executive Branch is no longer to declassify nearly as much information as previous executives had been expected too.
It used to be only information that posed a threat to the U.S. if it got into the hands of foriegners was considered Classified.
Nowadays we aren't even allowed to know who sat in on energy policy meetings or who Abramoff met with when he attended White House "staff meetings".
Everyone joins the military as an adult, JD.
citizenkan
I joined at 17 with my parents permission, and I have seniors signing up before their 18th birthday regularly. I teach 11th and 12th grade
Ma'am:
RU aware that Macswain is referring to you as Rightwingclueless on his blog?
No, I wasn't aware of that since I have never been to his blog.
Doesn't bother me a bit.
Actually, he has covered the same story, but on his site he has the various updates to it. It appears that ABC News may have been ahead of itself. No confirmed terrorist deaths just yet.
Very inspiring, Papa Ray. Thank you.
Part of me agrees with RWS positions a lot more than Macswain positions.
That said, Macswain got the best of you on the Hillary plantation issue.
Looks like he was right on the Pakistani hit issue as well.
Give him credit where due.
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