RWS, I actually agree with you on this issue. Lou Dobbs has made a very compelling case for stronger border security on his CNN show over the years.
I'd have to say that I agree with this post more than just about any other post you've ever made RWS. Well said.
Tough issue for all sides of the debate.
Posts like this one are why I enjoy your site, sparkle.
Other blogs tend to be more histrionic in their style of debate when it comes to illegal immigration. Actually, this topic tends to bring out the craziness in both sides. One side seems to want walls around our borders, while the other side screams racism for wanting to enforce our laws.
At any rate, thanks for a well reasoned post.
Just keep on with your support for illegal aliens and those with your same beliefs will be wondering why Texas faces what Arizona faces now in a few years.
The problem is not stabilizing it's getting worse with several million more illegal aliens coming in every year.
Just keep following Bush blindly down the path of amnesty.
I don't care if they are hard working, they need to come here legally, not simply change the title of what they are now into "guest worker" and expect the problem to go away.
Reagan did the same thing in the 80's and where has it gotten us? More illegal aliens and no incentive for any of them to follow the rules. There are now more illegals coming here every year than legals. You give them an amnesty and you'll see the numbers coming across illegally triple because you've just rewarded the prior lawbreakers.
Go take a look at California and its 40 kid classrooms in 3rd grade. My kid could barely learn a thing because the teacher had too many kids in the class and most of them didn't speak English as their first language. They don't want to assimilate. You're living in a little bubble of only what you see and are not looking at the big picture because it's not in your backyard.
Hard working or not they need to be caught and sent back and the punishments need to be harsh, such as a lifetime ban on first offense and long term prison sentences and fines for people like your buddy who hires them and thus encourages tons more to come.
Sorry sparkle, but on this issue I can't agree with you one bit.
And go ahead and call me a racist like every other person who defends illegal aliens, I don't particularly care. My wife's not a citizen, she came here legally and she ain't white. So if you want to think that the only people against illegal aliens are Aryan Nazi's -- like everyone else who is a proponent of illegal aliens like yourself -- go right ahead.
I see the destruction these illegals are causing to the citizens of this country (and those here legally) in the form of high taxes, crappier education, closing of health care facilities and the driving down of wages in all blue collar industries. Just because your wages haven't dropped from the $15 an hour most people used to receive for the "jobs Americans won't do", to barely above minimum wage over the past 20 years you don't see anything wrong with it.
Americans used to do those jobs when they actually got paid a fair wage. Now we're content to hire criminals who break our laws with their first act, pay no taxes, leach off the system and then are treated as slave labor so some business can improve the bottom line.
It's a sad day in America when we accept these things without question.
Stand up and fight people, it's an outrage!
I don't think you're a racist for seeing things that way at all.
But we have to deal with political realities. There is no way anyone is going to deport the millions of illegal aliens in this country. It isn't even feasible. The only solution is the guest worker program for them and then implement the measures you cited to keep more from coming. Although I don't imagine anyone is going to do that either.
I saw Carville and that other guy (Paul Begal? or something like that) on O'Rielly last night and EVEN THEY were not against a wall. So there is some progress being made even in the most liberal circles of thinking.
very sane commentary babes.
I have a friend who is staunchly against any type of illegal immigration. She has supported the minute-men (through donations) and their leader politically.
She just had her house painted for much less than what it should have costs in my mind. She freely admits that the contractor did not have a license, and most of his employees were most likely illegal, but they were so much cheaper than any other bid she got, she had to go with them.
As a result of her actions, a contractor who does follow the laws, pay taxes, provide workers compensation coverage for his employees and allow the state to place restriction on the work he can legally perform will not be seeing any money from this. A guy (not a contractor) who picked up some illegal immigrants (who are most likely paid cash) will get the benefit.
She will of course end up with more money to fight against illegal immigration.
Not to condone that kind of thing but that kind of thing happens when the govt takes too much out of payroll to the point of it being ridiculous. People find a way around it.
We use to be for fair wages, now we need fair taxes.
So you don't condone breaking the laws written to protect American workers so that you end up with more money, but it's the governments fault that people are breaking the law becuase they are asking for too much??
If everyone actually paid their share of taxes, the strains on the services provided by the government such as in schools and hospitals would be aleviated somewhat.
Are you saying it's George Bush's fault that some companies break the labor and emloyment laws?
If the government were not overextending into area which they really have no business, we would nto need such high taxes.
And when was the Republican Party ever for "fair wages"? The federal minimum wage in America is the laughing stock of the industrialized world.
How do you think the Boston tea party started? People who are unfairly overtaxed will look for ways to not to pay. They justify it by the fact that they are unfairly taxed.
Like I and many have said many times before. If we had to pay our taxes with one check at the end of the year instead of having it taken out before we even see our paycheck, there would be a revolution tomorrow. Add up the taxes on everything we buy too and have to pay that in one lump sum and there would be no stopping it.
nicnerd,
I actaully agree with you, but think we would vehemently disagree on what areas the government is overextending itself in.
The government currently spends much more than it brings in every year, and is currently operating at the largest defecit ever. Assuming we left taxes where they are, we would still need to cut spending by almost $400 Billion to make ends meet.
Illegal immigration is caused by an unfair payroll tax structure on small busineses??
Here I thought it was some business owners refusing to contribute their share to the tax base, turns out it was a noble act of "civil disobedience for personal profit"
And if we took the taxes out of these illegal immigrants checks before they got the money then the government would be getting more money.
The business owners (and in the short term consumers) are the only ones who benefit from illegal immigration. It does have a negative effect on our infrastructure and our long term purchasing power as an economy. Our refusal to deal wtih this problem is simply short sightedness on the part of the government in favor of immediate profits to businesses.
There are sensible solutions, but they would require more government involvement on both sides of the coin, and neither party has the political will to create bigger government to deal with the problem.
Please don't tell me that I should have called the police. Who would win there? Everyone would lose.
Acutally, those businessmen who run legitimate businesses that are loosing market share to those that refuse to comply with the law would win. They would no longer face competition from businesses that are run illegally, and could receive the actual fair market rate for their services rather than the one artificially depressed by illegal activities which is severely hurting their bottom line.
How much did you pay in taxes when you hired "Pat" and her family to do jobs that could have been done by legitimate businesses?
How much money did "Pat" pay in taxes of the amount you gave her?
Did "Pat's" kids get medical treatment in their lifetime before "Pat" was a citizen? Did they attend school?
She worked for you for 11 years while waiting for her citizenship? What kind of visa allows for an 11 year stay?
Either accept the reality of your own actions and admit you broke various labor and employment laws and accept the punishment, or move to have the laws changed so that situations such as yours become legal.
She got her citizenship about 4 yrs after working for me. I didn't know she was an illegal until she told me she wanted to be a citizen. I didn't have to pay taxes on her. She cleaned my house once a month. Up to a certain amount you don't have to pay anything on household help. She was never paid over that amount.
You will be glad to know that I have never broken the law.
You employed an illegal immigrant to clean your home without breaking the law?
Congratulations.
There is no such thing as cheap labor. We end up paying for it through crime, healthcare and other social service benefits to illegals. You almost can't blame the people who are against immigration yet who employ them, because we're paying so many taxes that go towards these people, then heck, we may as well get the advantage of their cheap labor, since everyone is so broke paying these high taxes. It's a vicious cycle.
Even though Bush's stance on immigration seems lax, I still would support Republicans if I wanted illegal immigration to be halted, because the Dems seem to be on the side of never doing anything about it. In fact, many on the Left (as someone mentioned above) just rant about how it's all about racism. In other words, I'd still trust the GOP on this issue more than I would the Dems. La Raza (sp?) and all the other pro immigration groups always side with the Left. Gee I wonder why.
Oh yeah, and don't even get me started on how the Left is always for them getting drivers licenses, and passing laws where if they're caught in criminal activity the police can't inquire as to their legal status, or ask for proof of their status here. The Left even uses them for illegal voting. (duh)
Nope. Not going to trust the Left on this issue AT ALL.
jandrew,
nice try. But I helped her get her citizenship as soon as I found out.
Two of my sisters-in-law and one brother-in-law (one Mexican and two Filipinos) were all here without proper documents and we didn't know. It was a major source of embrassment for them but my family just laughed. We took care of it all. One had been here since she was two years old and the other since early childhood. It's not unusual for people's papers to lapse or for them to just sort of integrate quietly into society without ever having to finish the process of citizenship.
Oh, and hooray for the Inland Valley Daily Bulletin! That's the hometown paper wher I grew up. The I.E. Whoop! (Inland Empire)
RWS:
Oh, so that makes it legal. Okay....
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