Yes, the Left gloated when Gingrich went packing, for all the good it did them lol
Jeff, I was thinking the same thing. We've done quite well since they got rid of Newt for us.
I hear from people in Delay's district that the Dem opponent could have won against Delay, but that now a GOP replacement is certain to sail to victory. Which, if true, means the Dems may be experiencing that "Be Careful What You Wish For" scenario once again.
Who is it that has to go work on Hillary's campaign? I had a bet a few months back....
Where the posts about how nobody has any evidence to offer against him, and how the indictments he currently faces are simply "criminalizing politics" and all the other talking points now Jill?
The man was caught red handed almost 2 years ago, and is finally stepping down now before new evidence come out against him and his chief of staff.
What is the record for number of guilty pleas/convictions for one Representatives office?
RWS:
In your post you imply that someone in the history of congress has been more corrupt than Tom Delay.... Care to name names?
How did you arrive at your more "corrupt" valuation? More dollars received/funnelled/laundered illegally? More Legislation kept away from a floor vote? More ethics procedures changed to protect them? More rule changes directly intended to favor their party implemented during their brief time in the leadership position?
my bet jandrew? you took it?
Dave in Texas | 10.20.05 - 8:20 pm | #
jandrew,
Well Delay hasn't been convicted of anything yet. But I wasn't talking just ab out corruption. I was talking about congressman's sense of entitlement and thinking they are kings and queens instead of public servants.
Like you RWS I never liked him and didn't have a reason.
yeah, it was me, but I thought the bet was a conviction. remind me?
Didn't have a reason? How about this. They playing the christian right as far as he could while being the most corrupt politician in the last 40 years.
I am glad he has stepped down and I don't care who wins his seat, although I worked on Lampson's campaign when living in Beaumont years ago. His stepping down suddenly after vowing to put up a vigorous campaign only two weeks ago is directly tied to his former employee pleading guilty to curruption charges. Indictment then conviction. Then I will be satisfied.
I meant I didn't like him long before any of the controversy....when it was truly for no reason.
Good riddance. I know this means a Republican will still hold that district. You know what? That's OK with me. I doubt his replacement will be as underhanded.
Ah, the distancing and dissociation has begun. "I never liked him." "Indicted - yeah, but not yet convicted."
heh
And, truth be told, Newt Gingrich did it to himself. (Or maybe he just got what he did to Jim Wright)
Ye reap what ye sow.
heh
Maybe my dislike had nothing to do with politics. I happen to know a woman he dated. I know, I know...it's wrong to base likes and dislikes on things like that but it is human nature.
he was a dishonest scoundrle Usually when people say "witch hunt" they mean that person was innocent. Do you think Delay is innocent ? Should he have been indicted ? Will he be found guilty ?
heh,
It didn't "begin," I have always said that about Delay. Even when none of this was going on.
Even if he isn't convicted, I will feel the same way.
Jim Wright, Newt Gingrich..like I said, if you're living right, then these things don't happen.
DeLay was a cold-hearted hack who was corrupt to the core. Good riddance to him.
Now, who's next? Von Rumsfeld? Scotty McLellan?
Rove? Let the dominoes keep falling...
I may not like Delay,but no one has prove he was "corrupt to the core" yet.
Saying it doesn't make it so.
There is NOTHING corrupt about Rumsfeild, McLellan, or Rove.
Put up or shut up.
Rostenkowski was infinitely more corrupt that DeLay, jandrew.
I fail to see how his stepping down is now read by jandrew, et al. as proof of his guilt.
I am glad he is gone, but at the same time, realize that just legitimizes the left's attempts to criminalize politics.
RWS, please don't try to put words in my mouth. I never said that Rumsfeld and the others were corrupt. I just said I wanted them out of office...
And anyone who believes DeLay is pure as the driven snow needs a tune-up of their BS detector...
Sparkle - You say in your bio that you're a "political junkie."
Everything that we're talking about here is politics, pure and simple. Politics is about getting and keeping power. The ends justify the means, and Delay (or Gingrich, or Frist, or Rove, or whoever) simply act on that belief - they do whatever it takes.
These are not "nice" people, because nice has nothing to do with it; this is not about principles or morals or doing the right thing - it's about getting and keeping power, period.
The Democrats have been very ineffective at this game, but the folks who've currently hijacked the Republican Party (you know, the party that folks like Abraham Lincoln, William Seward, Salmon Chase founded back in the mid 1800's) play it very well, and very ruthlessly.
Delay's decision to take himself out of the game is a simple tactical calculation for the moment.
But folks like him who've had a taste can't stay away, and he'll be back in some form or another until someone finally drives a wooden stake into his alleged heart and stuffs his mouth full of garlic.
Meanwhile, there's no shortage of (mostly) men and women lusting to take his place.
Hunter Thompson said it best when he noted upon Nixon's death, "He was a crook."
Whatever ideals you personally hold dear, please don't think for a minute that anyone who holds office actually agrees with you on them. They've just learned which buttons of yours to push to get you talking to your friends and out to the polls.
But you already know all of this, right?
Great summation, heh! I couldn't have said it better myself. And bonus points for the Thompson quote... 
Even if you discount last week's Jack's pleading guilty, Delay knew he had no chance of winning the re-election. He KNEW it !!
DeLay resigning is a win for everyone. He wasn't corrupt (the criminal charges will likely be falsified) but he did things I consider unethical like most of the bums in congress and I want them all pitched out with a violent public outcry against their misuse of funds. I could care less what party they are affiliated with.
Yeah, but I was jacked up on coke and mescaline when I said it.
Many people on the Right didn't like him waaaay before this, so this "distancing" that is going on was going on beforehand. But nice try.
JD, didn't you know that Rostenkowski, according to jandrew, only stole a few stamps?!! I still laugh about that one. He probably thinks Torricelli was innocent too. Lol.
Since many on the Right didn't like Delay this may totally invigorate our party! Bring in more Independents. Again, be careful what you wish for.
The poor Left, they lose again... 
Heh,
So who was good at politics for the 40 yrs the Dems were in charge?
Take everything you just said but insert Democrat and it still rings true, doesn't it?
There are some good men and women, we just don't hear about the good too much. Not newsworthy.
I don't pretend that those in power are saints. I just want them to vote my way on the issues. If they are good people too... I'd rather have that.
An earnest and honest summation, Sparkle...regardless of which side of the fence one leans against. And a sad statement about politics in general. Nicely done.
I'm with you Sparkle. Hadn't been convicted of anything............yet....but the guy always rubbed me the wrong way. My spider-senses tingled everytime he came on TV. Most of those on the left are rejoicing today but most of what they had on him was a manufactured witch-hunt. That being said, where there's smoke there's fire. I just believe innocent until proven guilty. Now we'll find out how guilty.
This seems to be the general feeling from everyone I am talking to on the right.
It seems that when the someone on the right messes up, we gladly see them to the door.
The Democrats need to learn how to do this.
It seems that when the someone on the right messes up, we gladly see them to the door.
Thanks for the laugh.
You mean when someone is about to be indicted. Bush hasn't messed up? Then please do tell what do you call the situation in Iraq, a victory for democracy? Please, spare us your sanctimony.
Dave in Texas:
At the time of the bet, I remember stating that any conviction counted, even if it was some kind of plea deal that involved him retiring to "spend more time with his family" and subsequently taking a misdemeanor (which is still what I think will happen on the Texas case, but on the Federal Investigation it looks like he may be in a little more hot water if they can get Scanlon, Rudy and Buckham to all start talking about what was happening in his office).
If Bob Ney still taking up a seat?
jandrew, I'll pay up. no big deal, it was a fun bet... but do me a fav and point me to the reference, including your acceptance of the wager, and that it had to be some conviction of some crime. thanks
And I think Bob Ney is a scumbag and should lose his committee memberships and seniority now. I also said so then.
I think the original thread it was on has already lost it's comments. But I believe it was in early October, just after he was booked.
I was to wear a Condi '08 shirt and spend a day at her offices, and you were to wear a Hillary '08 shirt and spend a day at her offices.
No conviction yet, but I think I'm in much better shape than I was 4 months ago.
And I think everyone realizes taht both Ney and William Jefferson should just stop showing up for work for the betterment of the country.
Seems there is a real opportunity to clean house here, and Fitzgerald is still waiting in the wings.
ok, well let's do a friendly readjustment.
I don't recall you accepting the wager, but if you say so, I'm good with that.
But it's gotta be a conviction on one of the Ronnie Earle indictments. Nothing else was in play in October.
deal?
Fair enough, but we won't know on the Earle thing until next spring (the trial date).
Also, I don't know how many of you have ever posted bail, but Delay is currently a free man under our legal system only because he posted a $100,000 bond.
Usually a condition of this bond is that you agree to return to court and that you not leave the state. In Delay's case I'm sure an exception was made to allow him to leave the state for purposes of his employment (which is not unusual), but it would be quite unusual for a judge to allow him to change his state of residence to a state other than Texas simply becuase he is choosing to retire.
Has he really thought this one all the way through (or is he just assuming that he will get special treatment from the courts)?
yeah, he's a huge flight risk. sheesh.
in order for the local Rs to choose a replacement candidate for him after he won the primary, he has to relocate.
or die.
you ok with him relocating? the judge apparently is.
Sparkle lays out several items -
"1. So who was good at politics for the 40 yrs the Dems were in charge?
2. Take everything you just said but insert Democrat and it still rings true, doesn't it?
3. There are some good men and women, we just don't hear about the good too much. Not newsworthy.
4. I don't pretend that those in power are saints. 5. I just want them to vote my way on the issues. 6. If they are good people too... I'd rather have that."
1. The Democrats had some great players from 1932-1968, and then some. In chronological order -
FDR - one of the best ever, a master pupeteer with the kind of vision we're lucky to see once in a lifetime. (unlike the current WH occupant, who can't muster a coherent thought and who is at the other end of the strings).
Truman - the handpicked tool of a corrupt St. Louis machine who was incredibly unpopular as President ("Dewey Defeats Truman in '48;" running for re-election in '52 wasn't even an option). He looked a lot better to people in hindsight, but he makes my list if for no other reason than the sign on his desk - "The Buck Stops Here." (Unlike the current occupant of the WH, who takes responsibility for nothing)
LBJ - He got legislation passed that changed our lives for the better - civil right, voting rights, Medicare. Deceptive, deceitful, ornery. He was probably the single wealthiest President ever when he took office ("Lady Bird runs all the bidnesses." Ha!), but he never forgot what it was like to be dirt poor. (unlike the current occupant of the WH, who can't relate to anyone who didn't ride the same coatails he did).
1. (cont'd) JFK was a charmer, very smart, and knew how to let people argue out an issue in front of him before doing what Presidents should do, which is make the tough decisions (he also practiced Truman's "buck stops" philosophy when the Bay of Pigs fiasco blew up in his face; and he prevented a nuclear exchange in '62 because a second level advisor had the courage, and opportunity, to stand up and say, "I think you're wrong, Mr. President.") I can't even imagine any of the current crop of sycophants in the WH speaking their minds, let alone having Mr. Bush actually keep his rage under control enough to listen to someone question or contradict him.
Among others in my personal Hall of Fame - Tip O'Neil, Ted Kennedy, George McGovern, Jimmy Carter, Frank Church, and Sam Rayburn, to pick the better-known names. Add Howard Dean and Russ Feingold, too.
Bill Clinton? Probably the best Republican President I can expect to see.
2. No, it's not as simple as substituting "Democrat" for "Republican." I believe that the Democrats have come to campaign very badly but govern very effectively, while the Republicans since Nixon have campaigned very effectively (though deviously and by manipulating fear) but have knowingly governed very badly, and in ways that have put most of us deeply in the hole. (I don't live off inherited wealth, dividends, or capital gains. I earn my income - the current incarnation of the Republican Party does not serve my personal interests).
3. You're blaming the messenger again. Stop doing that.
4. I think you do.
5. That's what polictis is - short term and immediate self interest, only.
6. That doesn't make sense. Which do you really want more - good people, or people who vote the way you want them to?
heh, you will never get your 30 day chip posting like that.
Ah, another one of Dave in Texas' deeply thought-out and insightful posts.
Idiot.
heh
I haven't found the conditions of his release from custody yet, but it is fairly standard that they include that he will not move away from Texas.
I'm still digging, but I'm betting the judge has not approved it yet (and will need to, which will make for an interesting news story- "Delay seeks Judge's permission to move away from Texas out of his love for the Republican Party", if only he had loved America that much.
Contrary to the story DeLay told reporters yesterday, the former House Majority Leader’s retirement announcement was planned well in advance – even in advance of the primary.
http://www.anklebitingpundits.co...order=0&
thold=0
dave:
I'm not buying it. When Tony Rudy rolled to state's evidence he was worried becuase Rudy had the goods to implicate Buckham.
Delay has to date succesfully distanced himself from the illegal activities undertaken by Scanlon and Rudy (with charges currently pending against Ellis and Colyandro) while working in his office, but when Buckham goes down, he likely will no longer be able to distance himself from the activities. This is way too many people working with the state for him to maintain his innosence all the way throw election day.
It is more likely that a deal was cut with the prosecutors that no charges will be brought against him until after the election and he will give up his seat. In order for this deal to be available to him, he had to prove to the Prosecutors that he had a shot at winning his seat, which apparently the primary results did.
It would be fun to think that Delay took one final act to screw the Republican voters of his district, but I don't think that was really the reason.
I'm surprised this is still being discussed though, didn't you guys here McKinney pushed a cop.
Wow, my bad.
Apparently, a committee of Republican higher ups will decide who fills DeLay's seat from June through January of next year.
The fact that there was a second place finisher in the Republican Primary for this seat seems to be completely lost on these people. The whole, for the people by the people thing doesn't seem to register.
Gov. Perry will not call for a special election and will allow a select group of higher ups in the Republican party to select who is representing the people of the the 22nd. Nice.
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